you shouldn't be able to deorbit contracts' satellites

[WanderingKid]

Since this thread appears to be the discussion on the topic in general, the multi-contract / one satellite bit is rather abuseable. Because if you deliver a satellite to Munar orbit with a Mat Bay and a Temp Gauge on it with a decent amount of dV, you've got a single satellite that can complete 10+ contracts, whenever they might pop up.

Duplicate this a few times with a few satellites, and it's amazingly abuseable. It's similar to 'Science from Orbit' with empty crew reports and multiple 'Plant a Flag on X' missions with a colony there.

Maybe we should collate an 'Abusable Contract' list somewhere, and list the techniques for review by the devs? Offer up different ideas for containing the issue?

[Anquietas314]

WanderingKid: you could do that yeah, but that's an awful lot of (boring, tedious) work switching back and fore between mission control and a probe in the required orbit for much less reward than you'd get abusing the strategy system and doing contracts normally. Good idea though about making a list

[Laie]

Being able to recover them for funds does seem a bit cheaty to me.

If you use a spaceplane to put them up, it's almost free to get them back in the bay before recovering the plane. If you're using a rocket and the satellite gets to orbit on its own, then I agree.

My early satellites (when I still had to use the LV-909) cost less than 4000 funds. I'm not gonna watch a five-minute re-entry for that kind of money, or thread it back into a cargo bay. Many part tests on the launch pad yield more.

[Anquietas314]

Many part tests on the launch pad yield more.

Heh.... not on hard difficulty, I assure you. *looks at "test $700 decoupler for $200" contract*

I do however get your point, and a few people, including me, already made it

[Red Iron Crown]

My early satellites (when I still had to use the LV-909) cost less than 4000 funds. I'm not gonna watch a five-minute re-entry for that kind of money, or thread it back into a cargo bay. Many part tests on the launch pad yield more.

I actually enjoy doing a precision reentry far more than cobbling together a part test rig, so for me at least it's a win. It appears that the satellite doesn't even need to separate from the plane, so it's even easier than I thought.

Though it seems like parking a science equipment satellite in orbit as WanderingKid describes is even more of an exploit.

[Bill Phil]

Well, that's like saying you shouldn't be able to delete spacecraft. And we all know you can from the tracking center.

[Bill Phil]

What I don't like is to have trillions of useless spaceships in my map, but I also don't like deorbiting them for rol experience... Maybe the solution to this problem of mine would be to make the player able to see/unsee them.

You can do that... Rename the ship to a new type of vessel, something you don't usually show, and then go to map view and turn that icon off.

[Tex_NL]

I like how you picked a hole and didn't come up with a solution...

Just show a context button to let the player hand over control when contract conditions are met. The button should not be visible otherwise. It's not brain surgery.

Please don't try to reverse the situation here. You, and a few others, suggested the satellite should be removed from the players control. I merely showed this would lead to some nasty complications you had not thought about.

[Anquietas314]

Please don't try to reverse the situation here. You, and a few others, suggested the satellite should be removed from the players control. I merely showed this would lead to some nasty complications you had not thought about.

I also added a simple solution to the very problem you described shortly after you posted it... I was not the only person to provide the suggestion either. Clearly, some of us at least had thought about it. But let's not turn this into a poop-throwing contest

[255]

Then when the contract was completed, the satellite should just disapear from your ground control and you shouldn't be able to go to it

Yes, this is what makes most sense.

Being able to recover them for funds does seem a bit cheaty to me.

Exactly.

With a little luck and some careful planning you can do multiple satellite missions in a single launch.

Unless I'm wrong I think you can't do that, the game checks if the probe is a new one ("created" from the launch site and not already in space).

What I don't like is to have trillions of useless spaceships in my map, but I also don't like deorbiting them for rol experience... Maybe the solution to this problem of mine would be to make the player able to see/unsee them.

Yes, or simply delete the satellite when the contract is completed.

Edited December 20, 2014 by 255

[Anquietas314]

Unless I'm wrong I think you can't do that, the game checks if the probe is a new one ("created" from the launch site and not already in space).

You can accept more than one of those contracts at a time.

[Ziff]

I would like the option, once the contract is completed, to keep them or not. Sometimes I'd like that ground base for my own use.

The amount of money you get for recovering the satellite is peanuts compared to what you got for putting it up there

How much are these satellites costing you guys? I put em up for about 10-12k at most, with maybe only 3-4k recoverable. It's not even worth remotely considering getting them back. I don't even deorbit, I click end flight in the tracking station. I would prefer to just hide- ooooh and there it is folks. Sudden realization. I should just change the icon to debris and turn off debris in the tracking station. When RemoteTech2 gets updated for 0.90 I would consider throwing some extra dishes and power on them but right now I just throw em up there as cheap as I can make em.

[Tex_NL]

Unless I'm wrong I think you can't do that, the game checks if the probe is a new one ("created" from the launch site and not already in space).

I think you misunderstood my exploit wrong. I meant to say you accept multiple satellite contracts. THEN launch a new rocket.

[thyriel]

I think you misunderstood my exploit wrong. I meant to say you accept multiple satellite contracts. THEN launch a new rocket.

Yup, that works pretty well. Accept 5-6 satellite contracts, get one up with some spare dV to fly around a bit, do all contracts with one satellite

[Rusty6899]

I have done the exploit to get two satellite missions completed in one launch. It probably is a bit "cheaty" but it's just my own time I'm saving, rather than money. The cost of putting a satellite somewhere in Kerbin's SoI might be 6000 funds. The amount they are paying for those contracts completely dwarfs the cost of carrying out the contracts, so I'd rather save myself 10 minutes if I get two satelite contracts that are convenient to carry out at the same time.

[255]

You can accept more than one of those contracts at a time.

Oh ok I see.

Well, that's another exploit.

So there's a lot of things wrong with satellites right now.

[mattinoz]

That's pretty much cheating

Don't the contracts check the satellite is unmanned? If not, they should. Another simple solution would be to make the player click a button that says "I think I'm done".

Couldnt they just use the renaming function and have you set the craft type to satellite name feild could even be auto filled with a name from the contract. Only then would the contract be completed and you loss control.

[Anquietas314]

Oh ok I see.

Well, that's another exploit.

So there's a lot of things wrong with satellites right now.

That's not an exploit at all. It's a little bit buggy in that it doesn't check if the satellite has been used to complete other contracts, but being able to accept multiple contracts of the same kind is desirable behaviour.

Couldnt they just use the renaming function and have you set the craft type to satellite name feild could even be auto filled with a name from the contract. Only then would the contract be completed and you loss control.

While it's not a terrible idea, it has the same problem as just doing it automatically without the naming thing: I typically name my satellites to indicate what contract they're for (mostly so I know who I launched what for) while sitting on the launchpad - that lets me switch vessels, do whatever, then switch back and know which contract that satellite is for. If the naming is automatic and you lose control automatically, then the naming serves no real purpose. I would however like to see a way to auto-rename the contract by clicking a button - doing it fully automatically however wouldn't be a good idea for somewhat obvious reasons

[CaptainKipard]

Please don't try to reverse the situation here. You, and a few others, suggested the satellite should be removed from the players control. I merely showed this would lead to some nasty complications you had not thought about.

Sorry. I meant "found a hole". Still It'd be great if instead of just being negative people would come up with solutions at the same time. I'm starting to see a lot of this in this section.

Doing it with a button would also preclude exploiting a single craft for multiple missions.

[Tex_NL]

The reason I did not come up with a solution myself was incredibly simple: I did not have any.

But my initial question did have the desired result. It kept the ball rolling and eventually we did find an elegant, but still not perfect, solution.

"The contract can only be completed after the satellite has no fuel." This can be done by decoupling but as has been pointed out one could easily dock with it and reap the profits for a second time.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Tex_NL

[harlikwin]

Then when the contract was completed, the satellite should just disapear from your ground control and you shouldn't be able to go to it, it is actually not yours so what do you care? [i'm not being sarcastic, I actually think it should be like this]

I actually think this is a very good idea. Plus it helps save on the clutter.

[thereaverofdarkness]

They should be removed from your control but stay in space, where you can track them and even reacquire/destroy/deorbit them should you choose to do so.