Best orbit for Mün/Minmus station?

[Anquietas314]

IMO, it's easier and cheaper to rendezvous with these lower inclination orbits from both the surface and incoming from outside the SoI.

Easier to some extent maybe, but cheaper? In Mun's case the surface's rotation is so slow it's barely worth mentioning, so your inclination doesn't matter a huge amount there. Depending on where you decide to make the adjustment, you can deflect your transfer to Mun to arrive in a polar orbit for under maybe 20-30 m/s?

In Minmus's case, the gravity's almost negligable - this is somewhere where an EVA pack is enough to land and return to orbit.

You could also say that because a polar or equatorial orbit is (pretty much) exactly aligned with a direction marker on the navball, it's easier to get to from the surface. You have to deal with the body's rotation in both cases anyway, as well as timing the launch to make rendezvous faster.

[Zephram Kerman]

Minmus' gravity is so negligible, you could even put your science lab on the surface. For Mun, I agree with LethalDose; incline 45° or so with a tiny burn at MCC1. Resupply trips can get "close enough" to that plane by launching at approximately the right time of month.

[LethalDose]

Original relevant statement:

IMO, it's easier and cheaper to rendezvous with these lower inclination orbits from both the surface and incoming from outside the SoI.

Emphasis added.

Easier to some extent maybe, but cheaper? In Mun's case the surface's rotation is so slow it's barely worth mentioning, so your inclination doesn't matter a huge amount there. Depending on where you decide to make the adjustment, you can deflect your transfer to Mun to arrive in a polar orbit for under maybe 20-30 m/s?

In Minmus's case, the gravity's almost negligable - this is somewhere where an EVA pack is enough to land and return to orbit.

You could also say that because a polar or equatorial orbit is (pretty much) exactly aligned with a direction marker on the navball, it's easier to get to from the surface. You have to deal with the body's rotation in both cases anyway, as well as timing the launch to make rendezvous faster.

First, I said opinion. It's just the way I fly. I'm not interested in debating the statement.

I will, however, clarify:

I said cheaper and easier from both fly-bys (coming from outside the SOI) and surface launches. And I'm not stating that inclined planes simultaneously optimize both situations individually, but that, when considered together, the inclined orbits overall are better.

Again, for how I fly and rendezvous.

This is because, in my experience, rendezvousing with stations/satellites in polar orbits after entering from outside the SoI is something of a nightmare. Your phase angle at transfer either has to be just perfect, or you're left with a bunch of expensive burns that occur way above the poles.

It has nothing to do with reaching polar orbits from the surface.

Everything you said is true, but nothing you said addresses the situation coming from outside, which is clearly stated in my original post.

[Anquietas314]

Everything you said is true, but nothing you said addresses the situation coming from outside, which is clearly stated in my original post.

Depending on where you decide to make the adjustment, you can deflect your transfer to Mun to arrive in a polar orbit for under maybe 20-30 m/s?

I covered both arriving from the surface and arriving from Kerbin orbit. I also covered a way to make even a 180 degree plane change relatively cheap to perform on the first page of this thread - which is an unrealistic worst case.

I should add that the phase angle is actually less important than you make it sound - you can time the injection burn in LKO to make your apoapsis slightly ahead or slightly behind the Mun, which can be used to eliminate almost 90 degrees from your plane change (when dealing with a polar target orbit).

Edited December 22, 2014 by armagheddonsgw

[LethalDose]

I covered both arriving from the surface and arriving from Kerbin orbit. I also covered a way to make even a 180 degree plane change relatively cheap to perform on the first page of this thread - which is an unrealistic worst case.

I should add that the phase angle is actually less important than you make it sound - you can time the injection burn in LKO to make your apoapsis slightly ahead or slightly behind the Mun, which can be used to eliminate almost 90 degrees from your plane change (when dealing with a polar target orbit).

I admit I didn't see that part of your statement after reading it several times, but from what I can see, it only addresses moving into a polar orbit, NOT a polar orbit in the correct orientation with the target's polar orbit, which is the hard part.

You could have accepted my opinion and agreed to have different points of view or pressed the point with an argument. You chose the latter and I've already stated that I have no interest in pursuing it further, so peace out.

[Anquietas314]

LethalDose: that's fine, but the second paragraph (the edit - it's in the bit you just quoted) does address that. Really you could of course just wait 6 in-game hours for Mun to move through 60 degrees of its orbit if your phase angle is much more than 90 degrees off, which makes it a non-issue.

[Musil]

I just performed this maneuver on Minmus both ways. I must say, waiting for the moon to be on the proper angle is much easier and requieres quite a lot less work, even if you have to plan your initial burn better. So that answers it for me

Thanks to everyone.

[Anquietas314]

Musil: you're quite welcome

[kinnison]

I don't like to wait. So I have some fuel in a polar orbit, with my station with fuel and a lab at an equatorial orbit.

[Anquietas314]

I don't like to wait.

>_> KSP is a game where waiting is a necessary game mechanic.

[LethalDose]

>_> KSP is a game where waiting is a necessary game mechanic.

HA! Truth!

Despite the devs repeated statements about how "time-based mechanics" aren't fun, and other such nonsense.