64-bit self-disabling mods

[longbyte1]

While I don't play 64-bit KSP myself, I don't understand why modders take the time to block on 64-bit KSP. A huge disclaimer should do the trick to deter people from complaining that X mod is crashing their game on a 64-bit KSP installation.

If anything, this so-called "64-bit blockade" is simply inhibiting growth. It doesn't fix problems: it just covers them up.

So why exactly do modders aggressively and deliberately take steps to prevent people from running mods on 64-bit?

[BLUAV8R]

If anything, it'd have to be because some people just don't read the posts unfortunately... They see Download and go for it then close the page, and, innevitably, people go using it on x64 and then come spam the comments with "WHY DOESN'T YOUR MOD WORK BLAH BLAH", and, while not being a mod creator, I can see how that would be annoying

TL;DR: makes life easier ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Mecripp]

Look at the mod http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/57988-0-90-x-Wenkel-Corporation-RealChute-Parachute-Systems-v1-2-6-1-17-12-14-paused in BIG RED Letters and you know how many people with win 64bit post saying there's a bug or it's broke and from the way, I take it, The problem is Unity so there isn't away for them to fix it.

EDIT- Here is a post they have to put up with http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/57988-0-90-x-Wenkel-Corporation-RealChute-Parachute-Systems-v1-2-6-1-17-12-14-paused?p=1574999&viewfull=1#post1574999

Edited December 26, 2014 by Mecripp2

[ferram4]

Fine, this conversation has been had about thirty times by now, and it always goes the same way, but I'll bite.

First, we don't shut down mods on 64-bit KSP. If we did, we'd throw the Linux 64 build under the bus, and that build has been quite stable with only few quirks. We shut down mods on win64 builds only, and do you know why?

Huge disclaimers don't work. They never have. People don't care, especially if they perceive that if maybe they scream at a faceless modder enough that everything will magically work. And that assumes they actually read the damn thing; most people don't.

So what happens when people waste time doing this? Let us count the problems:

1. Legitimate issues suffered by all users get buried by win64 crash reports that cannot be fixed.
   
2. Bug reports for issues that might be legit are made more difficult to resolve because no one can be sure if it's a mod / KSP issue or a win64 issue.
   
3. Users spend lots of time screaming (incorrectly) that mods are the source of win64 instability, rather than the fact that the engine is just broken, meaning that problems 1 and 2 become worse over time.
   
4. Users share "common knowledge" about which mods "break" win64 or "quick fixes" that hold things together, but the ultimate fact is that they rarely do, and then when we inevitably get bug reports, there are even more variables and issues going on.
   
5. Time spent dealing with all of this delays bug fixes, features, and overall just slows down mod development.
   

We've dealt with all of this. I've dealt with all of this, I was originally not locking my mod down on win64 and was trying to provide support to users on it. Go, search the FAR thread back into the 0.24 release days, it's all there.

Add on to this that until we locked out many mods, Squad didn't realize how bad the stability was and similarly, users did not accept that win64 was broken at all. Hell, some still don't, you're an example; you wouldn't be ranting about wanting to run mods on a broken piece of software, you just think that we're all full of it, that things aren't that bad, that all the reports of constant crashing are overblown.

There are no problems to cover up; they exist in the engine itself, no amount of mods will hide it. There is not a damn thing we can do to make win64 stable, but we can do a damn thing to provide support to our users that don't insist on running a broken build by ensuring that not only is win64 not supported, but that people running our mods simply can't spam about win64 issues.

Think I'm full of it? Then go and recompile the mods you want, and go prove that I'm wrong. Go ahead, no license can stop you for personal use. But you're not a mod developer, you don't know how? Oh, it's simple, there's a tutorial in the tutorials forum on how to do it. But you don't think you should have to? Well, you're the one saying that it hides problems rather than solving them, so go and show us the way. But you don't know how? You can learn, just like we did.

I'd love to discover that there's a way around whatever's breaking in win64 KSP. It would be wonderful to get the embargo out of the way, make win64 stop being a disaster, get rid of the complaints about crashes from it, and stop the win64 advocate drama. But there's nothing we've been able to do but wait on Squad or the Unity engine devs to fix the issues deep within code that we can't touch.

[Sandworm]

Linux is free. No excuses.

Seriously. There is no reason that anyone here with a 64-bit system shouldn't be using linux. As KSP continues to expand, and with Squad so committed to keeping everything in memory 24/7, KSP is turning into a linux game. If you want to run lots of texture-heavy mods you don't have much of a choice anymore. Some of the Youtubers are running into this. In fact it may be why we have seen a drop in vid production. High-quality vids of KSP with fancy clouds and photo-realistic textures are hard to do without pushing the limits of 32bit.

If the non-support of 64bit WINDOWS by modders moves even a few people towards linux then it is a good thing.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Sandworm

[Motokid600]

If the non-support of 64bit WINDOWS by modders moves even a few people towards linux then it is a good thing.

I'm one of 'em. I plan on installing Linux the next time I play RSS with Pingopete's RVE. I just hope the "quirks" Ferram mentioned aren't too

obnoxious.

Oh and I imagine this thread belongs in add-on affairs?

[Probus]

Well said Ferram

[Sandworm]

I'm one of 'em. I plan on installing Linux the next time I play RSS with Pingopete's RVE. I just hope the "quirks" Ferram mentioned aren't too

obnoxious.

Oh and I imagine this thread belongs in add-on affairs?

The quirks aren't much, and some are totally of Squad's making. For instance, Squad doesn't give linux versions of KSP the full version numbers they do windows. 0.90 is 0.90.0, not 0.90.703. So mods that look for version numbers have to accommodate. Linux is also literal regarding capitalization of files and directories. /gamedata is not the same as /Gamedata under linux as it is with windows.

[Voidryder]

Despite having the good fortune to be able to play crash-less on a Win 64bit build since the first hack back in 23.5, I completely understand and support the modders who have disabled their mods for Win 64bit, even though it has meant I can't use some of the mods I consider essential.

However, no one who volunteers their time, talent and skills for the enjoyment of others should have to be bombarded with cries of "your mod is broken" by people who don't take the time to read or even post enough information to help the modder debug the issue. Unfortunately that is exactly what I saw happening despite clear instructions being posted and Mod's stepping into help. The forum got choked and modders were being driven away. That is a greater harm then not being able to play on Win 64bit in my opinion.

Hopefully, the Unity Team will find the issue and fix it as I'm sure they realize they are only hurting their own company's market-share.

@Longbyte1: I know you're not in that category as you don't play win 64bit. You seem to be motivated as so many of us are by the love of such a great game and the desire for it to reach it's full potential. Your questions just hit bone right now as this issue has been discussed, argued over and resolved. In other words, it's a sensative topic. I hope you don't take any comments to heart for just asking or offering your opinion. The free exchange of ideas and discussion is what makes this one of the best gaming communities out there in the vast reaches of the internet.

Fly Straight and True.

[longbyte1]

Thanks for all of your replies.

Other than to "help keep the sheeple away from making meaningless support requests", I've figured that Unity is also a problem in 64-bit Windows, along with drivers.

While I enjoy what Linux distros have to offer, they are very time-consuming to configure. I also am not able to run Windows and Linux in parallel since a bare-metal hypervisor for workstations does not currently exist (unless you want me to upgrade to a Windows 8 computer, which supports Hyper-V).

I see now modders' burning hate for win64 support. Obviously it's not their fault. This is a limitation Squad must face when working with a closed-source engine like Unity. I personally dislike depending on a develop

I'm not quite sure why Squad still has win64 builds on their download page: if modders don't support it, why should Squad? They have a decent build pipeline, but we see that it's too early to be used.

[NathanKell]

We have asked repeatedly for the Winx64 build to not be shipped; I'm not sure why Squad does still ship it, especially now that it doesn't even work stock anymore (career is broken).

To clarify and expand on what ferram4 said, it is absolutely not that we have a "burning hate for win64 support." We have a burning hate for not being able to provide it, since there is literally nothing we can do to fix KSPWinx64's issues, other than plead with Squad not to keep releasing it, and hope Unity 5 fixes the issues.