[1.0.2] B9 Aerospace | Procedural Parts 0.40 | Updated 09.06.15

[Van Disaster]

I'd like to see them gone too and I'm working on a way to limit offset parameters depending on wing semispan, to make things like 10m offset on 0.25m wings impossible.

Another consideration I have to deal with is limited slider precision. I can't stretch them to an arbitrary range without ruining tweaking precision and making lots of values impossible to select. I have some ideas about zoomable range, but those are some time off.

And what would you call unrealistic? I've seen some absolutely bizarre shaped things fly in real life, the main real life limits are usually materials. Ridiculous sweep is also the only way to do chines we have at the moment too.

Seems to be something really odd going on in I suspect FAR, but I've only noticed it with these wings ( possibly because both sets of pwings are the only ones I have installed anyway... ); now I'm getting vertical changes to CoL when I use *completely vertical* wing panels on the wingtips. I have no idea how to start diagnosing this - I did check the DLL source for the oddness with the trailing edge & couldn't spot anything amiss ( especially given the rclick info panel's MAC is correct ) but where do you even start with something like this?

Edit: possibly something symmetry related, actually - if I can duplicate it reliably I'll post but don't hold your breath...

Edit2: Unrelated, but it's possible to go outside your shape clamping by using the parent inheritance buttons: currently have an offset of -10.667

Edited February 9, 2015 by Van Disaster

[fatcargo]

@bac9 : Just to chime in.

Few days ago i had a randomly occuring bug where upon craft loading, some PWs got "fused" to parent part (a cargobay in this case). Those PWs did not react to "J" key for config popup window, the plugin refused to recognize them.

When hovering mouse over them, they were highlighted as if they are part of that cargobay. I used KER too, and it too displayed in a hint that a "fused" PW had a same name as parent cargobay part. Right-click menu was correctly displayed.

This bug also occured when i tested a craft and reverted back to SPH.

The new thing is that after updating to B9PW v.034 bug has dissapeared. I was convinced that craft file was corrupt somehow, but it is not.

This "bugfix" may be related to how i updated B9PW and KER - i manually delete all files and replace them with updates. The interesting bit is that prior to update i also deleted file

GameData\B9_Aerospace\Plugins\PluginData\B9_Aerospace_WingStuff\config.xml

I'm still shooting in a dark, i just hope it does not show up again.

[innociv]

There's still this arbitrary restriction that comes into play where you CAN put very large single wings on small craft but not large ones. Even small RC planes/drones have wing flex.

With 16m as the max, well what I said still stands, just replace 20m long craft with 10m long one.

From what I've seen part count can only noticeably influence performance when the difference is in the hundreds or many dozens of parts, and even the sizes you're talking about are unlikely to have more then 10 or 20 parts more with those limits.

Well my craft IS hundreds of parts, and the number of wings contributes to that. I need to reduce them whereever I can.

FAR also seems buggy when it comes to connecting one wing directly in front of the other, so I wanted to avoid that by having one long wing going along the side.

My wings are shaped a bit like the SR-72, and in order to do that with P-Wings which forces the root length to match the tip length that a wing is attached to, I had to arrange 4 sets of wings in line. With yours, if it let me make them long enough, I could have avoided that and hopefully FAR would have calculated things better as a result.

If you can't detect the size of what the wing root is attached to, I just don't think it's reasonable to assume the fuselage is no bigger than aMk3 part and to restrict the size to what's appropriate for a Mk3 size craft. :/

I also think you're going to have problems with restricting offset based off width. What if someone has a large swept and thick wing, and they're trying to add an additional wing behind it that makes a thin trailing edge at a different angle? By looking at it, you can see that the wings are intersecting together and they intend for this to be one wing, but the game doesn't see it that way since the root is attached to the fuselage and not the trailing edge of the other wing.

KSP lets you do some messed up things. Some people abuse these and some don't. You really can't program such a simple fix for this that doesn't interfere with reasonable things. You just have to let people "cheat" if they want, while those that don't want to cheat will govern themselves and make realistic crafts regardless of what the game allows.

Edited February 9, 2015 by innociv

[Hodo]

For n-th time, please always post a log, I don't have anything to work from. Another person posted one, and I have fixed the reason he had his issue. Your issue can't be connected to his, since it was related to fuel GUI and control surfaces don't have a fuel GUI.

Sorry I didn't post it last night but I was in a rush, had real life giving me crap.

Here is the output log, and it seems to happen when I switch the wings to the flat trailing edge and try and attach the b9 procedural control surfaces to them.

Output

I can repeat the issue and get it to happen again, it doesnt seem to be tied to the changing of the wings, but more to the attaching control surfaces to them in symmetry mode after I changed the wing type to a fuel carrying wing.

[bac9]

Sorry I didn't post it last night but I was in a rush, had real life giving me crap.

Here is the output log, and it seems to happen when I switch the wings to the flat trailing edge and try and attach the b9 procedural control surfaces to them.

Output

I can repeat the issue and get it to happen again, it doesnt seem to be tied to the changing of the wings, but more to the attaching control surfaces to them in symmetry mode after I changed the wing type to a fuel carrying wing.

Thanks. Looks like procedural wing fails to load or save the config XML because you don't have permissions for the folder or because some other process is accessing that file:

IOException: Win32 IO returned 1224. Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\B9_Aerospace\Plugins\PluginData\B9_Aerospace_WingStuff\config.xml

After that the game just spams null reference exceptions from FAR and RCS Build Aid.

Can't reproduce it on my side, sorry.

[Hodo]

Thanks. Looks like procedural wing fails to load or save the config XML because you don't have permissions for the folder or because some other process is accessing that file:

IOException: Win32 IO returned 1224. Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\B9_Aerospace\Plugins\PluginData\B9_Aerospace_WingStuff\config.xml

After that the game just spams null reference exceptions from FAR and RCS Build Aid.

Can't reproduce it on my side, sorry.

Any idea on how I could fix this on my end?

[bac9]

Any idea on how I could fix this on my end?

See if moving your entire game folder out of C: works.

[Hodo]

See if moving your entire game folder out of C: works.

I will test it on my second install, which is at another directory.

Nope, no change in the log. Same error, no new log.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Hodo

[Dermeister]

SO I'm working on a lifting body and I'm using B9 procedural wings... I love the mod btw! but as you can see it will come out a bit weird.... So my question is there a way to round off the parts? like you can adjust tip angles ect ect but you can't make the wing follow the contour of the body or can you? My question is ... would it be possible in later releases to implement that? any 1 has tricks for me? thank you and like I said I love that you can choose the textures ect this mod is cool

[bac9]

Dermeister, no, unfortunately that's impossible.

[chrisb2e9]

This mod is awesome, exactly what I was looking for!

Thank you for making this.

One question, i'm trying to make a spoiler on top of the wing, and one on the bottom. the bottom one always clips up through the wing. I've tried to flip it over, but it always ends up pointing up. Anything I can do about that?

Thanks!!!

[*Aqua*]

If you use FAR you can change spoiler deflection to a negative value -> the spoiler will point down on activation.

In stock KSP you can't do that afaik.

[Xenro66]

Another bug that crashes the game.. Actually, I have no idea what this dialogue box is even doing, or what it means. Can anyone tell me? Ram was at 2.9GB, then when I started messing around with the options for the wing, it spiked very fast to 3.7, then displayed this dialogue. I think this mod was the cause of it. I can source the output_log if needed or anything else required, but anyway, any help will be appreciated, like always

[Hellbrand]

is there any way to make them provide more lift as well somthign comparable to the normal Pwings mod. cause i 've built two craft with similar wing designs from the first set of p-wings and then from b9 p-wings. and these wings seem not to give nearly as much lift.

(Yes I am using far)

[Van Disaster]

If you use FAR you can change spoiler deflection to a negative value -> the spoiler will point down on activation.

In stock KSP you can't do that afaik.

If you're using FAR you shouldn't overlap any flight surface unless you really deliberately want to, or they'll basically nerf each other.

@Xenro66 - you hit the tweakables memory leak which has been discussed at length in this thread already, by the looks of it. Use the J dialog.

@Hellbrand - if you're running FAR, these are giving me the same lift as old pWings, and I have wings up to 700m^2 area so it'd be noticeable... if you're running stock I'm not sure it's even fully supported yet.

[Hellbrand]

@Van Disaster

they seem to perform far diffrently than the normal P-wings I'll provide examples later today but it seems like they simply dont give as much lift. as p-wings. wich is a shame as these have a much better visual style and far better customization.

[Hodo]

Another bug that crashes the game.. Actually, I have no idea what this dialogue box is even doing, or what it means. Can anyone tell me? Ram was at 2.9GB, then when I started messing around with the options for the wing, it spiked very fast to 3.7, then displayed this dialogue. I think this mod was the cause of it. I can source the output_log if needed or anything else required, but anyway, any help will be appreciated, like always

http://i.imgur.com/jAaf8pY.png

You will need to post your output log. It sounds like you are having an issue sort of like mine. There is probably a string of nullref errors in the background and it is crashing out your game.

[PickledTripod]

These wings are awesome, now they're almost the only one I use! I really like being able to store fuel in them. But you know what they're missing? Outer edges. They already look really cool, with these they would just look perfect. Also it would be great to be able to reduce tip lenght to 0 or close to get real delta wings.

[Hodo]

After that the game just spams null reference exceptions from FAR and RCS Build Aid.

Can't reproduce it on my side, sorry.

Could they be related to the B9 procedural wings? I have tested several craft that dont have the b9pwing on there and no errors, but as soon as I put the B9pwing on it spams those errors.

[kcs123]

Could they be related to the B9 procedural wings? I have tested several craft that dont have the b9pwing on there and no errors, but as soon as I put the B9pwing on it spams those errors.

Do you also have DYJs procedural wings installed at the same time ? I was having issues with those, memory leak problems. Whenever I was resizing wings memory usage is increased until game CTD. MemoryUsage mod helped me to track down issue. Beside this, also got some unexpected behaviours, similar to things you have described.

After removing DYJs procedural wings, I didn't notice any problems with B9, except that reported and solved bug with fuel.

[Hodo]

Do you also have DYJs procedural wings installed at the same time ? I was having issues with those, memory leak problems. Whenever I was resizing wings memory usage is increased until game CTD. MemoryUsage mod helped me to track down issue. Beside this, also got some unexpected behaviours, similar to things you have described.

After removing DYJs procedural wings, I didn't notice any problems with B9, except that reported and solved bug with fuel.

That could be the issue I will try it without Pwings to see if there is a conflict. Thanks!

EDIT- Well I tried removing Pwings didnt work, still get the same error, I am going to try and removing B9Pwings and reinstalling it.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Hodo

[fatcargo]

Hi ! Some updates related to a previously reported buggy behavior with plugin not recognizing b9 pwings and not providing geometry editing popup window.

I have tried removing some editor-related plugins and (unfortunately) Active Texture Management caused the issue. Too bad when i decide to add more plugins/parts ATM would help then greatly.

[Hodo]

Yeah I am still having problems with the mod, I have tested on my second install and it is having the same issue. Its the same output log as the one posted. The second install isnt in the steam folder it is on the desktop. It is a shame because this could replace my Pwings which I love, but being able to place fuel in the wings of the craft would be SO great.

If there is a way to transfer that particular part of the mod over to other parts I would do it.

[bac9]

This can't have anything to do with Active Texture Management as I'm using it and having no issues myself.

[Van Disaster]

Bac9: can we get a roundup of open issues you want us to attempt to pin down, if there are any?

I too am not having ATM issues with this. And to whoever was complaining about no wing flexing, I can make one of my old ported forward sweep craft flap like a bird if I go out of it's normal flight envelope...