[1.0.2] B9 Aerospace | Procedural Parts 0.40 | Updated 09.06.15

[blowfish]

The only solution to the flexing issue is struts - Kerbal Joint Reenforcement is disabled on procedural wings for some reason (both these and DYJ's).

[Van Disaster]

Yep - but there were complaints there wasn't enough flexing. Well maybe there isn't if parts were made out of current earth tech, but none of this stuff is made out of current earth tech

Not sure if FAR would angle an AoA surface attached to a flexing wing part to keep the surface aligned right, must try that.

[silentdeth]

Having an issue when I right click on a procedural wing, it doesn't show a right click menu, and prevents any right click menu on any other parts until I exit and reenter the SPH.

[LOG 15:50:34.094] [ScenarioDestructibles]: Loading... 0 objects registered
[LOG 15:50:34.095] [ScenarioUpgradeableFacilities]: Loading... 0 objects registered
[LOG 15:50:34.102] KerbalEngineer -> BuildToolbar->OnGuiAppLauncherReady
[LOG 15:50:34.223] TechManager: Skipped 43 parts with multiple assignments
[LOG 15:50:34.762] [AS] removing 0 unused target parts
[EXC 15:50:50.394] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
UIPartActionResourceItem.SetSymCounterpartsAmount (Double amount)
UIPartActionResourceEditor.OnSliderChanged (IUIObject obj)
UIPartActionResourceEditor.Setup (.UIPartActionWindow window, .Part part, UI_Scene scene, .UI_Control control, .PartResource resource)
KSPAPIExtensions.UIPartActionResourceEditorImproved.Setup (.UIPartActionWindow window, .Part part, UI_Scene scene, .UI_Control control, .PartResource resource)
UIPartActionWindow.SetupResourceEditorControl (.PartResource r, Int32 row)
UIPartActionWindow.SetupResourceControl (.PartResource r, Int32 row)
UIPartActionWindow.SetupResourceControls (.PartResource r, System.Int32& row)
UIPartActionWindow.CreatePartList ()
UIPartActionWindow.Setup (.Part part, DisplayType type, UI_Scene scene)
UIPartActionController.CreatePartUI (.Part part, DisplayType type, UI_Scene scene)
UIPartActionController.SelectPart (.Part part, Boolean allowMultiple)
UIPartActionController.HandleMouseClick (UnityEngine.Camera cam, Boolean allowMultiple)
UIPartActionController+
.MoveNext ()
[LOG 15:51:53.207] Game State Saved to saves/Temp/persistent

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Hi Bac9,

I have no idea if this even relates to your mod, of if it's a FireSpitter thing or whatever - so sorry if this has nothing to do with your wings.

Noticed an odd behavior with spoilers. Here's how to replicate:

1. Create craft (whatever you like) using your wings & your control surfaces. I used your control surfaces on wings specifically.

2. Allow spoiler behavior on ailerons, and set to maximum deflection. (I don't know that max deflect matters, but it's what I did)

3. Launch craft, get in air, activate spoilers.

4. Watch how quickly airspeed decreases at different deflections. You'll notice that if you hold B for max deflect, the spoiler effect seems to stop working, but if you pulse it so that the control surface remains at something like a 65 degree angle (or less), the spoilers do work.

Short version: spoilers don't work if you hold B and keep them at max deflect.

Does this have anything to do with your particular control surfaces, or is it something else?

[bac9]

Hi Bac9,

I have no idea if this even relates to your mod, of if it's a FireSpitter thing or whatever - so sorry if this has nothing to do with your wings.

Noticed an odd behavior with spoilers. Here's how to replicate:

1. Create craft (whatever you like) using your wings & your control surfaces. I used your control surfaces on wings specifically.

2. Allow spoiler behavior on ailerons, and set to maximum deflection. (I don't know that max deflect matters, but it's what I did)

3. Launch craft, get in air, activate spoilers.

4. Watch how quickly airspeed decreases at different deflections. You'll notice that if you hold B for max deflect, the spoiler effect seems to stop working, but if you pulse it so that the control surface remains at something like a 65 degree angle (or less), the spoilers do work.

Short version: spoilers don't work if you hold B and keep them at max deflect.

Does this have anything to do with your particular control surfaces, or is it something else?

I don't have any control over this, I think. Spoilers (and control surfaces in general) are handled entirely by FAR, the full extent of my influence is creating a part that can turn on a certain axis and feeding FAR it's dimensions.

[Van Disaster]

Also note you shouldn't mix spoilers and controls - you won't have any ailerons while the spoilers are deflected ( actually not sure if you have them even when they're not deflected ). You can pop the FAR debug options up & check the cD of the surface, that will give some hard evidence. If this isn't FAR related then ignore everything.

Only thing I can think of how it relates to these parts is that wierd MAC issue with trailing edges popping up in some odd way.

[darcgekco]

Is there any way of increasing the maximum leading/trailing edge size? I have a penchant for using pwings as bits of fuselage, and in some cases, like the plane below, being able to extend the leading edge along the nosecone would be very helpful from an aesthetics perspective.

Edited February 14, 2015 by darcgekco

[AccidentalDisassembly]

I don't have any control over this, I think. Spoilers (and control surfaces in general) are handled entirely by FAR, the full extent of my influence is creating a part that can turn on a certain axis and feeding FAR it's dimensions.

Okie doke. Weird that it would work just up until it hits max deflection... ah, the magic that is KSP, sometimes =)

I can confirm though that if the control surface is not currently being used as a spoiler (you're not holding , it will work just fine as an aileron. Though weird yaw-ish forces do seem to occur if you hold down B for long enough as well, hard to say whether that's anything to do with the spoilers though.

[Van Disaster]

If you set them as flaps ( which can deflect upwards too ) you'll retain aileron control.

[theend3r]

Great mod, thanks a lot for this. The only problem seems to be that I cannot change the top/bottom materials (edges work just fine), only the color. They have uniform color all the time.

[Mekan1k]

It seems like the COL is too far forward on each wing... Not entirely sure why.

[blowfish]

It seems like the COL is too far forward on each wing... Not entirely sure why.

If you compare a stock wing to a procedural wing with the same shape do they behave differently?

[RobertJPowell]

Was about to report a bug then re-read the first page. Does help if i follow instructions before complaining about something not working. Love this mod, going to have to get used to FAR which i guess in the long run isn't exactly a bad thing

[theend3r]

Great mod, thanks a lot for this. The only problem seems to be that I cannot change the top/bottom materials (edges work just fine), only the color. They have uniform color all the time.

Nevermind, it's working now. Once again thanks for the mod

[Goddess Bhavani]

Procedural wings and control surfaces are all sorts of awesome.

This is my first spaceplane for career mode. Someone help me name the ship?

[Hodo]

I am still trying to find out why my is kicking so many errors and not working. I think it has some kind of compatibility error with something in my install.

It is the same output log as the previous times, I tried moving the KSP install I tried reinstalling. No change.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Hodo

[kcs123]

I am still trying to find out why my is kicking so many errors and not working. I think it has some kind of compatibility error with something in my install.

Sorry to hear that, I was hoping that old PW wings is conflicting mod, it seems not.

I didn't have time for additional tests in last days to help with narrowing down problem.

[Hodo]

Sorry to hear that, I was hoping that old PW wings is conflicting mod, it seems not.

I didn't have time for additional tests in last days to help with narrowing down problem.

Yeah I have been messing with it testing to see, but no clue. It doesn't seem like a conflict with pwings, I am thinking it is with retrofuture pwings.

[Van Disaster]

Hm, well this is an oddity - nothing throwing errors anywhere, but sometimes my wings seem to partially defuel themselves in the SPH. Am I alone in that? not noticed anything like that in the flight scene.

[Crzyrndm]

Probably changing the shape after selecting a fuel type? (perhaps through a parent part)

[HTaylor114]

I think I have found a bug.

When you load-in a craft with the wings, they return to their default shape.

e.g. this

http://imgur.com/8veSsT9

I landed one of these aircraft & parked it in the hanger like it is now. Then I flew another one to the island, and crashed it on landing. Then I landed a third, parked it, and noticed this.

n.b. I heard explosions, but that might have been the parts of the crashed one exploding.

It's still a great mod, and I thank you for it. building aircraft will never be the same again.

[Yemo]

I looked into some aero/FAR landing solutions and came across "decelerons", basically control surfaces, which can split up (eg when pressing and thus take the role of airbrakes.

It would imho be a really great "long term" option for procedural (non-all-moving) control surfaces.

[kcs123]

I think I have found a bug.

When you load-in a craft with the wings, they return to their default shape.

e.g. this

http://imgur.com/8veSsT9

I landed one of these aircraft & parked it in the hanger like it is now. Then I flew another one to the island, and crashed it on landing. Then I landed a third, parked it, and noticed this.

n.b. I heard explosions, but that might have been the parts of the crashed one exploding.

It's still a great mod, and I thank you for it. building aircraft will never be the same again.

Sounds like similar issue I noticed with subassembly. I forgot to report here mostly because it was not big problem, but could be related with yours.

It depends how that moded hangars stores(saves) craft.

Steps to reproduce my subassembly problem.

I have created a crafts tail that consist of two vertical custom shaped pieces, two horisontal small wing surfaces(also custom shaped) and control surfaces.

Link for craft file is available in signature if it is needed.

I liked that tail, so I deceidet to make subassemly from it for future usage. All well so far.

So, when I start to build another new craft I used that tail subassembly and all parts was unshaped like I was used parts from palete without customizing sizes and shapes. It was pretty much looked similar to your problem on picture.

But once I actualy attached that tail on craft, it is formed in my customized shape like I have saved in subassembly and worked as normal tail.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

OK - there's definitely something strange going on with these procedural (all-moving) control surfaces, but I am not sure whether it's a product of me not understanding aerodynamics, or something actually wrong - I'd appreciate some feedback. It's specifically a problem when the control surface is held at maximum deflection, I think, or at least most apparent then - like I described earlier for the spoilers that cease working if you hold down B, but work fine if you pulse it.

I get that this is probably a FAR issue on some level - but is it possible that these procedural parts are not delivering the right "shape" to FAR, or something? Sorry, I just don't know enough about how it works to know whether that question even makes sense.

I thought at first it was a lack of control surface area, but I don't think that's it. Here's the plane, for reference - I mean, I think the elevators are definitely (apparently) big enough to force pitch enough for a loop with the plane, right? :

But in fact doing a loop is impossible. Here are the symptoms:

1. When I at first press W or S to engage the elevators, the plane jerks sharply up or down. I figure this is normal - those elevators are huge.

2. If I HOLD W or S, however, the apparent force pushing up/down on the tail seems to decay rapidly to zero. It's like the only thing that's actually then rotating the plane is the reaction wheels in the cockpit.

3. I thought maybe my design was just crappy, so I repeated this with stock elevons. Problem does not happen - still a crappy pitch-wobbling design, but it wobbles all the way over in a loop at a relatively constant overall rate of pitch.

4. This does not apply to procedural control (not all-moving) surfaces used as ailerons - I can roll constantly, just fine.

5. The problem doesn't seem to apply to the all-moving procedural control surface used for yaw, either - only pitch, but a little hard to tell with the yaw.

6. Thinking the problem might be that the elevators were just too huge, I tried a different (smaller) size of procedural all-moving surface. The result was REALLY weird pitch behavior - hard to describe.

Relatively normal speeds here (100-250m/s, tried at different speeds). You'd think that holding W or S would cause the plane to continue pitching up or down, but it doesn't. It *feels* (yeah, yeah) like there's some weird response curve or something associated with holding down the key (or with reaching maximum deflection, or something) that just makes them stop working. As if the shape FAR is seeing on the elevator is maximally deflected at first when you press the key, rather than after holding it down for just a moment.

Anyhoo - I can take this over to the FAR thread, too, or post over there, but thought I'd ask again since I don't see the same behavior with other control surfaces (but still with FAR).

Maybe another mod is interfering too - I use a lot. Am I the only one who has this experience with all-moving control surfaces used for pitch, and other control surfaces used as spoilers?

[Van Disaster]

Sounds like you might be stalling the tail - that's a bit dependent on the shape of the tailplane. Try it with FAR's "light stalling things up" option. I knocked this up quickly with fully moving HS and ailerons, it loops fine if I don't pull up too fast & stall.

Incidentally at some point I reduced the size of the main wing & it unloaded some fuel, so I'm a bit confused by that one.