#LettuceOnMars Micro-Greenhouse: Growing Lettuce using the Martian atmosphere

[CaptainArchmage]

Alright, this project aims to grow lettuce on Mars using CO2 from the Martian atmosphere:

http://www.lettuceonmars.com/

The design uses an open cycle system with a pressurised greenhouse and grows an edible plant which has been subject to good deal of research. The lander is intended to go to Mars in 2018 and is funded by MarsOne, but the design should be valid on any landing Mars mission (example: NASA or ESA) that makes a soft landing. There happens to be a public vote on it, too; it is one of the ten finalists for the university payload. If you want to see this happen, you need to vote for it now! Voting closes at midnight tonight. Voting instructions are on the project page, if you want to see this fly vote for it now!

Here's the project page on the mars one community website:

https://community.mars-one.com/projects/mars-micro-greenhouse

An AMA about the mission was also done on Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2qp7yx/we_are_a_student_team_that_will_grow_lettuce_on/

(There's also a KSP mod I've done based on the designs. The Curse site is http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/226547-lettuceonmars-micro-greenhouse-mod-plant-science and on these forums at http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/105064-LettuceOnMars-Micro-Greenhouse-Plant-science-in-space-using-extra-kerbinian-resources%21 - plant or other life-oriented science in space is something we could do with in KSP as well!)

Edited December 31, 2014 by CaptainArchmage

[Dispatcher]

Thanks for sharing this. This is the kind of science which will produce tangible results that people on Earth can relate to.

[CaptainArchmage]

Thanks for sharing this. This is the kind of science which will produce tangible results that people on Earth can relate to.

Thanks! Growing edible food in space using extraterrestrial resources is going to be really important for sustaining colonies out there.

[Bill Phil]

Food is useless if your pressurized compartment isn't pressurized.

[CaptainArchmage]

Food is useless if your pressurized compartment isn't pressurized.

The greenhouse is pressurised, including a buffer gas of nitrogen.

[Bill Phil]

You said food is really important. So is oxygen. It sounds like you're making food out to be the only one...

[Kryten]

That mass budget could be used for a real instrument...

[Commander Jebidiah]

No offence to Bill Phill above me but if the OP is saying food is important and you are saying that oxygen is aswell then it's a bit worrying to read that you don't know how plants work.

They breath in CO2 and exhale O2

[Bill Phil]

No offence to Bill Phill above me but if the OP is saying food is important and you are saying that oxygen is aswell then it's a bit worrying to read that you don't know how plants work.

They breath in CO2 and exhale O2

They "exhale" O2, yes. But not much for a few plants. Algae would be a much better alternative, although it would probably need to be genetically modified. But it might "use" that O2 for life support. And my point is that there are a lot of things that are important. Oxygen, Pressure Compartments, water, and food. I know how plants work. It's carbon dioxide and water with energy from the sun combined which results in glucose and oxygen. Plus all the complicated cells and other chemical reactions.

[Lohan2008]

How about fixing hunger on Terra first ??

[CaptainArchmage]

You said food is really important. So is oxygen. It sounds like you're making food out to be the only one...

The process will both produce oxygen and food.

No offence to Bill Phill above me but if the OP is saying food is important and you are saying that oxygen is aswell then <snip>.

They breath in CO2 and exhale O2

Or, this, though plants use respiration during the night and during germination, which is why there is an initial supply of O2 around; after the plant begins photosynthesis it should be able to produce enough oxygen to keep that covered. The scaled up version of this system, as a farm, will probably need to cover the colonist's oxygen needs as well. Regarding algae: you can use that, but complex plants are more appetising, and algae require a specific process for freezing that isn't such an issue with plants (multiple seeds are brought along for backup).

It is important to test this technology works on Mars; there will be results on the environmental conditions inside, how CO2, O2, and nitrogen levels fluctuate, and the general health of the plant.

Edit: And Happy New Year to the KSP forums!

Edited January 2, 2015 by CaptainArchmage

[78stonewobble]

How about fixing hunger on Terra first ??

Not every child has access to puppies either (especially so for puppy hurting children), that should be fixed before allowing people to unneccessarily upgrade their electronic devices, but that does seem like another debate.

More on topic:

I think that it constitutes an unncessary risk of contaminating mars, but running the experiment with an analogue to the martian atmosphere has merit.

Algae is fine for some things, but if we, in the future, want to stay for a wee bit longer, people are gonna need a bit more varied diet, also for psychological reasons.

PS: It might get more support had it been lettuce genetically engineered to taste like bacon.

[Albert VDS]

I think this might even be the next "Earth rise" moment when they achieve this. Also it would great to see what a plant does on an other planet.

How about fixing hunger on Terra first ??

This is one of those questions/suggestion that don't make sense, specially if you look at the whole picture of what humanity does.

The cost of this project wouldn't even "fix hunger".

Why should a project like this wait for the world to be fed before starting? There are tons of things the human race does which doesn't benefit us in anyway.

The whole media and entertainment industry doesn't feed starving people, so why should they continue?

What about sports, art, tourism, planes, trains, automobiles, etc. etc., they all have nothing to do with fixing world hunger.

But no one ever complains about those things when talking about hunger in the world.

Also the main problem of hunger is because of the countries in which those people live, and more precise the governments of those countries.

There's still enough space to feed everyone on this planet, but as long as those countries don't change then nothing will be solved.

[lajoswinkler]

No offence to Bill Phill above me but if the OP is saying food is important and you are saying that oxygen is aswell then it's a bit worrying to read that you don't know how plants work.

They breath in CO2 and exhale O2

That is not (complete) truth. Plants consume oxygen, too. Why would they store all that sugar? They oxidize it to synthesize ATP, among other compounds.

Plants merely produce more oxygen than they consume, but they consume plenty of it, otherwise they'd die.

[Borklund]

This is related to MarsOne, so by extension, this isn't going to happen either. MarsOne does not have the money to pull off any mission to Mars. This is a non-starter.

[MasterSounis]

That is not (complete) truth. Plants consume oxygen, too. Why would they store all that sugar? They oxidize it to synthesize ATP, among other compounds.

Plants merely produce more oxygen than they consume, but they consume plenty of it, otherwise they'd die.

It's funny that you reffer to photosynthesis as an oxygen consuming process, because that actually isn't true. While oxygen is required to gain energy from glucose, that oxygen is found through the photosynthesis of water. The amount of oxygen produced by photosynthesis matches the amount required for the oxidation of glucose, so plants actually don't need to consume any oxygen from the atmosphere.

[Bill Phil]

It's funny that you reffer to photosynthesis as an oxygen consuming process, because that actually isn't true. While oxygen is required to gain energy from glucose, that oxygen is found through the photosynthesis of water. The amount of oxygen produced by photosynthesis matches the amount required for the oxidation of glucose, so plants actually don't need to consume any oxygen from the atmosphere.

It's not the photosynthetic process that does it.

Btw,

H2O + CO2 + Energy => Glucose and oxygen

i forgot the exact amounts...

Water is in there.

[MasterSounis]

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio104/photosyn.htm

I'm not making anything up here.

The overall chemical reaction involved in photosynthesis is: 6CO2 + 6H2O (+ light energy) -> C6H12O6 +6O2

I only reffer to it as photosynthesis is because it is sourced as such here. Maybe it's wrong, but that was the basis of what I said.

Also, I understand that the oxidation and photosynthesis of glucose are separate. My point, however, is that photosynthesis provides oxygen reactant for the oxidation of glucose, negating a need to take in oxygen from the atmosphere.

Edited January 3, 2015 by MasterSounis

[Bill Phil]

There are inefficiencies with photosynthesis of glucose. And as such not ab exact amount of oxygen is used from the reaction. So they need to take in a tiny amount of oxygen.

[MasterSounis]

Aren't there inefficiencies in both ends of the process? If there's left over oxygen, that could be used in photosynthesis. Anyways, in a practical extraterrestrial farming situation, I'm sure inefficiencies in plant photosynthesis would be the least of the problems that could arise, and one of the most easily fixed. Just spray some oxygen at the plants and you're good to go.

Also, inefficiencies are dependent on the limiting reactant. For example, say a photosynthesis reaction doesn't generate the ideal oxygen amount. if that plant is storing energy faster than it is using it, (growth?) there would be surplus oxygen that the plant doesn't need for oxidation. This would cover the inefficiency of photosynthesis.

In any case, without actually trying to grow plants in an oxygenless atmosphere, this discussion is merely theoretical. Maybe this is something that's been tested, but I wouldn't know.

Edited January 3, 2015 by MasterSounis

[Bill Phil]

It's better oxygen wise to use algae. They do need water to grow, though.

[lajoswinkler]

This is related to MarsOne, so by extension, this isn't going to happen either. MarsOne does not have the money to pull off any mission to Mars. This is a non-starter.

Exactly. Mars One is a pipe dream, but so enormous we could call it a scam.

It's funny that you reffer to photosynthesis as an oxygen consuming process, because that actually isn't true. While oxygen is required to gain energy from glucose, that oxygen is found through the photosynthesis of water. The amount of oxygen produced by photosynthesis matches the amount required for the oxidation of glucose, so plants actually don't need to consume any oxygen from the atmosphere.

No, I was not reffering to photosynthesis. I was talking about the whole metabolism net production. All I claimed is that plants require oxygen molecules in order to live.

But you're saying they don't need atmospheric oxygen. I disagree. Oxygen is released through stomata after going through the mesophyl sponge.

There is no oxygen storage or retention there. When lights go out, the plant is left with glucose. What to do with it? Store it, process it into building material or react it with oxygen, coupling the reaction with ATP synthesis.

If you constantly remove oxygen (people breathing it in a sealed environment), and thus supply the plant with nothing but CO₂, or a solution of nitrogen in CO₂ and water vapor to match oxygen deprived environment, problems occur, and it would be useless to discuss all that here because those things are what research papers are made from. Tons of variables, tons of experiments. Thing is - plants make enough oxygen to cover their needs, but they can't live without it. Remove it completely and they stop working.

Edited January 3, 2015 by lajoswinkler

[MasterSounis]

Okay, that's reasonable and I didn't know that. I thought there was an oxygen storage mechanism, and I was wrong. However, I don't think I said anything about constantly removing the oxygen. my point was merely that plants don't require externally fed oxygen to survive.

[Dkmdlb]

This is related to MarsOne, so by extension, this isn't going to happen either. MarsOne does not have the money to pull off any mission to Mars. This is a non-starter.

Exactly why I asked (the fifth highest top-level comment in the thread) whether they really think Mars One is going to actually send anything to Mars.

The response?

I think that it's an ambitious goal, buts it's possible and the only thing we can do it hope that it happens. It's completely out of our hands.