[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[SwGustav]

FYI Universal Storage safety decouplers have decoupling feature turned off, and therefore are completely useless. I thought SETI turns it back again, but it doesn't. Thoughts?

This is final release for now - SETI AutoPruner List Verson 3:

• Pruned the last of unused BahamutoD part configs (without breaking Landertrons)
  
• Pruned stock Advanced Canard
  
  
• Sorted structure - Squad subfolders as in actual folder; Squad and NasaMission at top, mod folders are alphabetically under
  

Download link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/439bn6a3hk8m6cb/SETI.prnl

I went through every SETI-unused file and checked everything, I HOPE I didn't miss anything else . Also tried to add comments for even easier navigation, sadly seem to interfere with autopruner.

Edited February 10, 2015 by SwGustav

[zcaalock]

does your mod replace random stock contracts or it is an addition?

[PeterPan]

The solution with the non-retractable light solar panels seems the best considering overall balance.

[Narval]

Loaded your mod.

Does it support interstellar 0.9 port ?

Anyway, have issue on the start in the Interstellar techtree(extended 0.57): the all parts are unlocked, unlike stock.

But i think that is the extended techtree problem, so nevermind.

Seems that your mod work fine.

Will wait for the KSPI & NFT support.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Narval

[Yemo]

Another quick mod suggestion I forgot to mention earlier:

Mk2 Cockpit Internals [link] Adds a proper IVA to the Mk1 inline cockpit (formerly known as the Mk2 before the spaceplanes plus integration)

Will test it later, but I cant see any reason why it should not work. Hopefully the KAX/USI firespitter issue gets resolved, would like to use that internal cockpit view with a prop:cool:.

FYI Universal Storage safety decouplers have decoupling feature turned off, and therefore are completely useless. I thought SETI turns it back again, but it doesn't. Thoughts?

This is final release for now - SETI AutoPruner List Verson 3:

• Pruned the last of unused BahamutoD part configs (without breaking Landertrons)
  
• Pruned stock Advanced Canard
  
  
• Sorted structure - Squad subfolders as in actual folder; Squad and NasaMission at top, mod folders are alphabetically under
  

Download link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/439bn6a3hk8m6cb/SETI.prnl

I went through every SETI-unused file and checked everything, I HOPE I didn't miss anything else . Also tried to add comments for even easier navigation, sadly seem to interfere with autopruner.

Great work! Thank you very much!

does your mod replace random stock contracts or it is an addition?

It replaces the stock starting contracts (launch, altitudes, space, orbit). Squad made the other progression contracts non-moddable and I can only deactivate them together. Until my contract tree is in a more finished state, I therefor decided to leave the stock contracts in game. Note however that the science gain from every contract is drastically reduced anyway, so the effect on science progression is marginal.

The solution with the non-retractable light solar panels seems the best considering overall balance.

Great, it is also very easily implementable, so it will be part of 0.7.5.

Loaded your mod.

Does it support interstellar 0.9 port ?

Anyway, have issue on the start in the Interstellar techtree(extended 0.57): the all parts are unlocked, unlike stock.

http://i.imgur.com/q4vrfCa.png

But i think that is the extended techtree problem, so nevermind.

Seems that your mod work fine.

Will wait for the KSPI & NFT support.

It does not specifically support any KSPI yet.

However it supports the Community TechTree.

Therefor you might want to take a look at the KSPI 0.90 Extended Configuration by FreeThinker, which also supports the CTT thanks to Olympic1.

So that would probably be your best bet at the moment.

If you try that, I would like to hear about your experience/issues, since it is planned to "integrate" the SETI-BalanceMod with the CTT config of FreeThinkers KSPI Near Future integration at some time...

Edited February 10, 2015 by Yemo

[SwGustav]

Great work! Thank you very much!

You are welcome However, you didn't answer about decouplers..

[Yemo]

You are welcome However, you didn't answer about decouplers..

Oh, sorry, missed it.

I m not sure why US turned the decouplers off.

Something like that might be a bug workaround, so I m hesitant to just reactivate them without knowing the full story.

With so much else to do and the imho limited gameplay effect, I will probably postpone investigating this until after 0.8.

[zcaalock]

You could add mission to fly to old KSC on island, land there and go back

[nightingale]

You could add mission to fly to old KSC on island, land there and go back

*cough* Anomaly Surveyor *cough*

[zcaalock]

*cough* Anomaly Surveyor *cough*

so you must join him, Obi-Wan, and together you will destroy the boring random contracts and rule the kerbal galaxy

[Yemo]

You could add mission to fly to old KSC on island, land there and go back

*cough* Anomaly Surveyor *cough*

Thank you very much,

it reminded me, that I wanted to change the OP to specifically recommend the other contracts for Contract Configurator!

The anomaly surveyor ones are a really great "diversion" from the standard funds/science gathering, something like achievements/special missions!

New Version 0.7.5

Disabling of part loading

• New standard procedure leaves all unused parts passively available without cluttering experimentalMotors, no need for compatibility files
  
• To save RAM, manually delete unused folders (beware of compatibility issues (eg Landertron/BahaSP) or use the
  
• AutoPruner config file provided, please follow the instructions in the AutoPruner thread
  
• Suggested and implemented by SwGustav
  
• WARNING: If you need passive support for parts, do not use AutoPruner on them (edit AutoPruner config or do not use AutoPruner)
  

Rebalances and Adjustments

• Unshrouded solar panels can not be retracted once expanded
  
• Based upon StockRebalance by stupid_chris, CaptRobau, suggested for SETI-BalanceMod by noahavrum and SwGustav
  

Contracts

• Many new progression Contracts, please take a look at the Contracts section in the SETI-BalanceMod OP
  

Minor Changes and Fixes

- - - Updated - - -

edit: Oh, nearly forgot,

I tested the Mk2 Cockpit Internals mod and as expcected, there was no problem at all.

Just added it to the supported mods list.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Yemo

[nightingale]

so you must join him, Obi-Wan, and together you will destroy the boring random contracts and rule the kerbal galaxy

Thank you very much,

it reminded me, that I wanted to change the OP to specifically recommend the other contracts for Contract Configurator!

The anomaly surveyor ones are a really great "diversion" from the standard funds/science gathering, something like achievements/special missions!

Thanks guys, it certainly helps keep me motivated to make more "diversionary" contracts.

Funny thing is, I originally created Contract Configurator because I was fed up with the imbalance and realized how much coding was required to create even the simplest of contracts... Now that I've put so much work into it, I've found that I really don't feel like dumping a ton of effort into creating a balance mod - I'd rather just create interesting contracts and leave the rest to mods like SETI.

[SwGustav]

• WARNING: AutoPruner permanently changes file names, please use this only on separate KSP installs
  
• If you need passive support for parts, do not use AutoPruner on them (edit AutoPruner config or do not use AutoPruner)
  

Might want to replace some of that, changes are easily revertable

That's why autopruner is awesome

[Narval]

However it supports the Community TechTree.

Therefor you might want to take a look at the KSPI 0.90 Extended Configuration by FreeThinker, which also supports the CTT thanks to Olympic1.

So that would probably be your best bet at the moment.

If you try that, I would like to hear about your experience/issues, since it is planned to "integrate" the SETI-BalanceMod with the CTT config of FreeThinkers KSPI Near Future integration at some time...

Do some test's with Extended Configuration and CTT.

Found some empty branches.

The procedural part's mod also need some balance in relative to KSPI.(Include procedural argon container part)

Have couple questions.

With RemoteTech2, in descriprion of most probes(except starting HECS, b9 Heavy-Duty RGU and KSPI Computer Core) there are some number of crew(2+), which as i understood is required for reducing delay from the command center. In original RT2, this ability has only one high-level probe body, moreover, as i remember, it required 6+ crews.

So question is - it is have been balanced yet, or already has ?

PS There is a spoilers, or preview mode for pictures?

PS PS My english is poor, i know that.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Narval

[SwGustav]

Alright, I did 2 things

First, I tested the Universal Storage Decouplers: they seem to "have problems with delta-v calculators" and have decoupling commented out. I removed comments and did some tests - first, staging can be turned on and off with Tweakable Everything mod, which makes them pointless as you can do it with procedural decoupler; secondly they indeed screw up calculators, as they can't count unstaged stuff; and last but not least - they have crossfeed (!) turned on (though you can turn it off, but still).

Here's a picture of first test.

My opinion - remove them, as they are a little broken and unneeded.

Second thing - an updated list of removable stuff from your second post (additions based on my prune config):

SQUAD/SPP/Wings - the whole folder (0.25 spaceplane wing stuff)

SQUAD/Parts/Aero - advancedCanard, aerodynamicNoseCone, protectiveRocketNoseMk7, standardNoseCone, standardCanard, wingletAV-T1, wingletDeltaDeluxe, tailfin

SQUAD/Parts/Electrical - The 3 ring batteries: z-200Battery, z-1kBattery, z-4kBattery

SQUAD/Parts/Engine - the 2 solid boosters "solidBoosterBACC" and "solidBoosterRT-10", NOT the third one "solidBoosterSep"

SQUAD/Parts/FuelTank - everything EXCEPT first one "adapterTanks"

SQUAD/Parts/Mk1 - everything EXCEPT mk1fuselage.mbm, mk1fuselageIntake.cfg, mk1fuselageIntake.mu

SQUAD/Parts/Structural - "adapterSmallMiniShort" and "adapterSmallMiniTall"

SQUAD/Parts/Utility - largeAdapter and largeAdapterShort, the decouplerSeparator folders and the decouplerStack folders, NOT the 3 decouplerRadial folders and the couplers at the end

NASAmission/Parts - MassiveSRB, Size3Decoupler, Size3LargeTank, Size3MediumTank, Size3SmallTank, Size3To2Adapter

BahaSP/Parts - "spotlightTurret", part.cfg files in "sRadialEngine", "trrEngine" and "retractableEngine"

DeadlyReentry/Parts - DRE_0625HS.cfg, deadlyReentry_1.25Heatshield and deadlyReentry_3.75Heatshield; inside UP_decoupler_2 remove only cfg files EXCEPT part_2_5M.cfg

ProceduralFairings/deprecated - the whole folder

StationScience/Parts - "StnSciAttachOTron"

ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportContainers - the whole folder

ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportHexCans - the whole folder

+Pair of minor graphical mod suggestions - PlanetShine and Distant Object Enhancement

Edited February 11, 2015 by SwGustav

[RobertJPowell]

Wernher: What's that, science from the Mun you say chaps? But we don't have a communications network.

Jeb: No worries lads, I have a brilliant idea! *pulls out blue prints*

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Had the KEES missions to do as well so thought why the hell not. - This crazy thing actually worked as I intended - guess there is a first for everything

(The primary launch stage Liquid Fuel Boosters came in at just under 110 tons and reached 26KM before depleting allowing the SRB second stage to shoot for orbital velocity. The third stage powered by an LVt-30 circularized, completed the transfer burn and aided in the Munar orbital stabilization burn. All told, i got back with 200 dv's in the tank in in hindsight should have burned for a safe touchdown but oh well.)

I love how creative this mod is forcing me to get Never occurred to me before to use girders and landing gear for a lander

[SwGustav]

Yemo, I know you already got plenty of work (so it's okay to consider this mod only after phase 9), yet I still want to suggest this - RLA Stockalike. It would fill a lot of gaps, escpecially with small engines for unmanned start and bigger probe focus than stock, also eases the rover creation.

Unfortunately, half of the pack are additional fuel tanks and some other clutter, which SETI avoids, but I'd help with removing that, if you want.

[Yemo]

Thanks guys, it certainly helps keep me motivated to make more "diversionary" contracts.

Funny thing is, I originally created Contract Configurator because I was fed up with the imbalance and realized how much coding was required to create even the simplest of contracts... Now that I've put so much work into it, I've found that I really don't feel like dumping a ton of effort into creating a balance mod - I'd rather just create interesting contracts and leave the rest to mods like SETI.

When starting, I was fed up with the useless clutter (when using procedural parts) in the assembly menues and the starting manned issue . While considering just banning clutter parts and putting probes in an earlier position, it kind of "expanded" to the "balance mod". Funny how it goes. Honestly, for my personal game and after quite some playthroughs, the anomaly hunting contracts are much more interesting than the normal career mode...

Might want to replace some of that, changes are easily revertable

That's why autopruner is awesome

After the solar panel kas issue, I put a warning before checking, to not forget it (better a warning too much than too little). After checking I only took it out from the OP text, but forgot the patchnotes, thanks!

Do some test's with Extended Configuration and CTT.

Found some empty branches.

http://i.imgur.com/5dvZNSLl.png

The procedural part's mod also need some balance in relative to KSPI.(Include procedural argon container part)

http://i.imgur.com/5me7mjh.png

Have couple questions.

With RemoteTech2, in descriprion of most probes(except starting HECS, b9 Heavy-Duty RGU and KSPI Computer Core) there are some number of crew(2+), which as i understood is required for reducing delay from the command center. In original RT2, this ability has only one high-level probe body, moreover, as i remember, it required 6+ crews.

So question is - it is have been balanced yet, or already has ?

PS There is a spoilers, or preview mode for pictures?

PS PS My english is poor, i know that.

The "heavyControl" node is empty because I moved the parts a to the unmanned techs.

The other 2 are beyond the stock TechTree (and thus beyond my current scope).

Maybe some other mods populate them, will keep my eyes open.

About the fuel tanks, I didnt change their values and the ones from procedural parts is actually closer to the stock game.

Not sure I want to mess with that, so I probably will just remove the overpowered KSPI ones. Thank you for the report.

The remote command not only reduces delay (if that is activated), but also lets you control probes without KSC connection (you still need KSC connection to transmit science), eg on the "dark side of the mun" if you have connection to a remote command vessel.

I changed this to 2 Kerbals and nearly all probe cores a few patches ago, since the very high original RT2 requirements didnt make sense to me. So it is already "balanced".

I do not know about preview/spoiler mode for pictures...

No worries, it is most likely a second language for most forum users .

Thank you for your feedback, much appreciated!

Alright, I did 2 things

First, I tested the Universal Storage Decouplers: they seem to "have problems with delta-v calculators" and have decoupling commented out. I removed comments and did some tests - first, staging can be turned on and off with Tweakable Everything mod, which makes them pointless as you can do it with procedural decoupler; secondly they indeed screw up calculators, as they can't count unstaged stuff; and last but not least - they have crossfeed (!) turned on (though you can turn it off, but still).

Here's a picture of first test.

My opinion - remove them, as they are a little broken and unneeded.

Second thing - an updated list of removable stuff from your second post (additions based on my prune config):

SQUAD/SPP/Wings - the whole folder (0.25 spaceplane wing stuff)

SQUAD/Parts/Aero - advancedCanard, aerodynamicNoseCone, protectiveRocketNoseMk7, standardNoseCone, standardCanard, wingletAV-T1, wingletDeltaDeluxe, tailfin

SQUAD/Parts/Electrical - The 3 ring batteries: z-200Battery, z-1kBattery, z-4kBattery

SQUAD/Parts/Engine - the 2 solid boosters "solidBoosterBACC" and "solidBoosterRT-10", NOT the third one "solidBoosterSep"

SQUAD/Parts/FuelTank - everything EXCEPT first one "adapterTanks"

SQUAD/Parts/Mk1 - everything EXCEPT mk1fuselage.mbm, mk1fuselageIntake.cfg, mk1fuselageIntake.mu

SQUAD/Parts/Structural - "adapterSmallMiniShort" and "adapterSmallMiniTall"

SQUAD/Parts/Utility - largeAdapter and largeAdapterShort, the decouplerSeparator folders and the decouplerStack folders, NOT the 3 decouplerRadial folders and the couplers at the end

NASAmission/Parts - MassiveSRB, Size3Decoupler, Size3LargeTank, Size3MediumTank, Size3SmallTank, Size3To2Adapter

BahaSP/Parts - "spotlightTurret", part.cfg files in "sRadialEngine", "trrEngine" and "retractableEngine"

DeadlyReentry/Parts - DRE_0625HS.cfg, deadlyReentry_1.25Heatshield and deadlyReentry_3.75Heatshield; inside UP_decoupler_2 remove only cfg files EXCEPT part_2_5M.cfg

ProceduralFairings/deprecated - the whole folder

StationScience/Parts - "StnSciAttachOTron"

ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportContainers - the whole folder

ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportHexCans - the whole folder

+Pair of minor graphical mod suggestions - PlanetShine and Distant Object Enhancement

Good to know about the decouplers!

Not sure if I should remove them, maybe Universal Storage or someone else will fix them and then I would have to bring them in again.

Will update the second post, didnt do that for a while. Thank you for the list!

About the graphical mods, my pc is not quite good enough for a full graphical overhaul and it would cost time to test them, so I generally focus on mods influencing gameplay for the recommendations.

It also avoids the issue of conflicting graphical improvement mods and why I would favor one over the other (which would be based on my hardware).

That is also the reason for not suggesting texture mods (eg for procedural parts), although I use additional textures myself.

Wernher: What's that, science from the Mun you say chaps? But we don't have a communications network.

Jeb: No worries lads, I have a brilliant idea! *pulls out blue prints*

http://imgur.com/a/MbqU2

Had the KEES missions to do as well so thought why the hell not. - This crazy thing actually worked as I intended - guess there is a first for everything

(The primary launch stage Liquid Fuel Boosters came in at just under 110 tons and reached 26KM before depleting allowing the SRB second stage to shoot for orbital velocity. The third stage powered by an LVt-30 circularized, completed the transfer burn and aided in the Munar orbital stabilization burn. All told, i got back with 200 dv's in the tank in in hindsight should have burned for a safe touchdown but oh well.)

I love how creative this mod is forcing me to get Never occurred to me before to use girders and landing gear for a lander

That looks like a massive vessel!

I like the variety of craft for different tasks, which are possible due to procedural parts and some earlier parts (eg adapters).

Personally, I launch a single keosynch ComSat with 4 Comms DTS-M1 about 60° ahead of the KSC for the early unmanned Mun missions including landing there with a probe .

The first time it was quite challenging and required good timing, but after some tries and using the flight computer, it is now a standard procedure (although I now tend to launch the same keosynch ComSat model at about 60° behind the KSC for better coverage ).

[Prismatech]

Hello need the seti cfg for remotetech 2 use it with CCT tree

[nightingale]

When starting, I was fed up with the useless clutter (when using procedural parts) in the assembly menues and the starting manned issue . While considering just banning clutter parts and putting probes in an earlier position, it kind of "expanded" to the "balance mod". Funny how it goes. Honestly, for my personal game and after quite some playthroughs, the anomaly hunting contracts are much more interesting than the normal career mode...

To use a WoW-type analogy, the current contracts all feel like "side-quests" - but not necessarily good side quests - they have the "kill 10 rats" type of feeling to them. But they are also missing something critical - an actual main quest - as the current contracts really should just be in a supporting role. Your contract roadmap really does meet that main quest feel that I think is missing from the game. Yes, KSP is meant to be open and have the players do what they want - but with a broad enough contract tree you can give the player dozens of suggestions of what to do next.

It's not to say that random/auto-generated contracts don't have their place - but when it's the only thing in a very small pool, it gets old awfully fast.

[Yemo]

Yemo, I know you already got plenty of work (so it's okay to consider this mod only after phase 9), yet I still want to suggest this - RLA Stockalike. It would fill a lot of gaps, escpecially with small engines for unmanned start and bigger probe focus than stock, also eases the rover creation.

Unfortunately, half of the pack are additional fuel tanks and some other clutter, which SETI avoids, but I'd help with removing that, if you want.

Well, 0.8.0 still needs a critical procedural parts update for Karbonite and storage and multipurpose colony modules 0.4.1 is only prereleased, so it is still stalled. Although I m thinking about expanding "procedural parts" for SETI based on the PP configs by Atrius129, regardless of the main procedural parts mod updates...

RLA Stockalike looks like a great addition. While there are quite some parts that would need to be filtered out, it fills a lot of gaps. Not only the obvious engine additions (I like the electrical ones, since it has relatively recently been proven to work in real life), but also the medium solar panels and some radial adapters.

Will take a closer look. Also the probe and antenna screens below would fit, originally I wanted a round probe core and considered using the OscarB fuel tank model myself .

Hello need the seti cfg for remotetech 2 use it with CCT tree

I m not sure I follow.

As far as I understand you need the SETI-BalanceMod configs for RemoteTech2 to use them without the rest of the SETI-BalanceMod, but with the CTT.

Thats not so easy. There are 2 distinct RemoteTech2 configs at the moment, located in SETI\MM-PartModding: SETI-PartMod-RemoteTech.cfg and SETI-PartMod-RemoteTech-AddParts.cfg.

But the changes to probe cores are done within the SETI-PartMod-SQUAD-ComConElectrics.cfg file in the same folder. That is the relevant code added to the probe cores per mm config:

    %MODULE[ModuleSPU]:NEEDS[RemoteTech]:AFTER[RemoteTech] {
        %IsRTCommandStation = true
        %RTCommandMinCrew = 2
    }

To use a WoW-type analogy, the current contracts all feel like "side-quests" - but not necessarily good side quests - they have the "kill 10 rats" type of feeling to them. But they are also missing something critical - an actual main quest - as the current contracts really should just be in a supporting role. Your contract roadmap really does meet that main quest feel that I think is missing from the game. Yes, KSP is meant to be open and have the players do what they want - but with a broad enough contract tree you can give the player dozens of suggestions of what to do next.

It's not to say that random/auto-generated contracts don't have their place - but when it's the only thing in a very small pool, it gets old awfully fast.

Yep, it is imho all a matter of relative dosage. Kind of reminds me of StarTrek:TNG vs B5, independent episodes + "minor quest lines" vs a "great story arc" + "minor quest lines" + "side quests".

[SwGustav]

About the graphical mods, my pc is not quite good enough for a full graphical overhaul and it would cost time to test them, so I generally focus on mods influencing gameplay for the recommendations.

Ah, I see, these two just have minimal possible impact on performance (one is a tweak to lighting, and another adds tiny flares for planets + dims skybox texture)

[Prismatech]

next try .sorry for bad english. i will use Remotetech 2 with the cct tree and your setibalance . The problem is that remotech 2 probs with unmanned tech activate .your used probe is at start but rt2 is not aktivate at that tier.

[Yemo]

next try .sorry for bad english. i will use Remotetech 2 with the cct tree and your setibalance . The problem is that remotech 2 probs with unmanned tech activate .your used probe is at start but rt2 is not aktivate at that tier.

Ah, ok. You need to use the Reflectron DP-10 antenna for launching probes through the atmosphere (position it vertically on the rocket, to have minimal air resistance). When you are past the atmosphere, you can activate other Comm devices, like the Communotron 16 or the Comms DTS-M1.

At unmanned tech, only the integrated 3km antenna activates, which only really helps for very short distance communication, like docking.

If this is your first use of RemoteTech, you may want to install RemoteTech XF on top of RemoteTech. And keep in mind that RT is not easy, there is a very steep learning curve.

This guide will help a lot: http://remotetechnologiesgroup.github.io/RemoteTech/guide/

PS: I updated the original post with a link to the guide.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Yemo

[ghimb2000]

+1 for RLA Stockalike. I used them in my SETI run as well due to not liking TweakScale. TweakScale isn't really balanced and I've had bugs that break the craft when reloading. Not a good experience when you have a > 50 parts craft and you have to redo half of them due to TweakScale behaving badly.