[1.3.x] SETI, Unmanned before Manned [Patreon]

[hbkmog]

I really hope Squad can open up tech tree modding a bit more. With the current state, there are too many empty nodes or nodes with only one or two part. I chose USI LS instead of TAC so a bit portion of the tech tree is empty because of that. The early to mid game is good but further on the tech tree becomes a lot less exciting.

[Demiko]

The empty nodes are "feature" of KSP 1.0.x tech tree modding.

You can use it without any part mods, but of course part mods improve gameplay. I would recommend the picture next to the download in the OP, where some are listed. At least VenStockRevamp fills some obvious holes in the stock catlog and K2 Command pod offers a 2 kerbal pod.

It's ok to have empty nodes on the latest leaves of tech tree, but there is an empty gap before Atomic Engine. This gap is filled in Atomic Age but in stock game it's empty. Not very convenient having to spend science for empty node just to get that engine.

Also, i've seen that picture but haven't understood anything =__=

[Yemo]

I really hope Squad can open up tech tree modding a bit more. With the current state, there are too many empty nodes or nodes with only one or two part. I chose USI LS instead of TAC so a bit portion of the tech tree is empty because of that. The early to mid game is good but further on the tech tree becomes a lot less exciting.

It's ok to have empty nodes on the latest leaves of tech tree, but there is an empty gap before Atomic Engine. This gap is filled in Atomic Age but in stock game it's empty. Not very convenient having to spend science for empty node just to get that engine.

Also, i've seen that picture but haven't understood anything =__=

Empty nodes at the end are just invitation to parts packs offering tech beyond the stock scope.

As I said before, part placement is balanced by the amount of science necessary to get the part, not by the amount of science for the explicit node containing the part.

I do not understand why people are bothered by an empty node and would prefer that I just add the costs of the empty node to the later one. It is just a difference in visualisation.

But if you have VenStockRevamp installed, it offers a smaller less efficient nuke for that node. Which would not be possible if I would fusion this node with the next just for appearences sake.

I want both, but when in doubt I favor function over form.

The picture just shows where the parts of the mods are roughly placed in the tech tree. KSPIextended is mainly in the north eastern corner.

MKS/OKS is mainly populates the later nodes of the 2 southern branches.

[Awesome_Guy]

Are there parts that come with seti. In the picture there are parts that i dont seem to have, also a hang of a lot of empty nodes.

Am i missing something?

[kcs123]

Are there parts that come with seti. In the picture there are parts that i dont seem to have, also a hang of a lot of empty nodes.

Am i missing something?

Smaller scale jet engine is from SETI. Also some parts are altered, like probe cores and cockpits that comes with integrated antenna.

For empty nodes question - answer is in post just above yours. If you go few pages back, you will see same question answered multiple times.

I just using this mod and reads this thread and found annoying to see same question again and again. You can only imagine how developer of this mod feels about it. Maybe it will be good to put that info next to picture with description what other mods are covered with SETIctt.

Probably even then there will be people that will not read it

[Awesome_Guy]

For empty nodes question - answer is in post just above yours. If you go few pages back, you will see same question answered multiple times.

i saw that reply and a couple others

I only ask because i have what seems only stock parts with one or two new parts, not the many the pictures seem to suggest

[Yemo]

Smaller scale jet engine is from SETI. Also some parts are altered, like probe cores and cockpits that comes with integrated antenna.

For empty nodes question - answer is in post just above yours. If you go few pages back, you will see same question answered multiple times.

I just using this mod and reads this thread and found annoying to see same question again and again. You can only imagine how developer of this mod feels about it. Maybe it will be good to put that info next to picture with description what other mods are covered with SETIctt.

Probably even then there will be people that will not read it

Thanks for jumping in, it was getting a bit annoying.

I have copy pasted the old content of the first post into the second post.

And then streamlined the OP to contain mainly stuff for 1.0.2, with a disclaimer that empty nodes are a "feature" implemented by squad.

And I will probably just ignore further questions regarding this matter. Or maybe forward them to squad.

i saw that reply and a couple others

I only ask because i have what seems only stock parts with one or two new parts, not the many the pictures seem to suggest

The picture is from the SETI-BalanceMod. I changed it to another version containing this information.

Also the parts you speak of are probably just procedural parts, which were heavily rebalanced/expanded by the SETI-BalanceMod.

[Awesome_Guy]

Sorry, still a little confused are there added parts or arent there?

in this picture there are parts both in the 0 tier and 1st tier nodes that i don't seem to have.

Is there and extra mod that has these parts? Is there somewhere i can see what parts have been added?

[Yemo]

Those extra parts come from the ProceduralParts mod, which was required for earlier versions of the SETI-BalanceMod.

You can check the SETIctt/MM-NewParts folder for parts added by SETIctt.

[Awesome_Guy]

Thanks Yemo, i appreciate the help.

[Olsson]

Sending an album, check both pictures.

http://imgur.com/ByPp9bj,4CntK5q

There's an issue with the "Manned Kerbin Orbital Docking" contract.

As you can see I've launched a probe, then launched a manned craft satisfying all the requirements.

But once docked the contract does not update.

Did I do something wrong?

At first I launched two manned vessels, after docking I realized one was meant to be unmanned.

So I de-orbited both of my manned vessels and then launched the probe, following with a manned vessel which had the same name as earlier. Might that be the problem?

I'll try renaming and relaunching the manned vessel.

EDIT: Launched a new manned vessel with a new name. Docked it to the probe, same issue, nothing happends.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Olsson

[Yemo]

Sending an album, check both pictures.

http://imgur.com/ByPp9bj,4CntK5q

There's an issue with the "Manned Kerbin Orbital Docking" contract.

As you can see I've launched a probe, then launched a manned craft satisfying all the requirements.

But once docked the contract does not update.

Did I do something wrong?

At first I launched two manned vessels, after docking I realized one was meant to be unmanned.

So I de-orbited both of my manned vessels and then launched the probe, following with a manned vessel which had the same name as earlier. Might that be the problem?

I'll try renaming and relaunching the manned vessel.

EDIT: Launched a new manned vessel with a new name. Docked it to the probe, same issue, nothing happends.

Did the "Docked with" condition get checked after dockign?

For the whole contract, you need to return your manned vessel to kerbin.

[Olsson]

Did the "Docked with" condition get checked after dockign?

For the whole contract, you need to return your manned vessel to kerbin.

Nope, as you can see in the second picture when I'm docked the third objective or whatever doesn't get checked green.

The only thing in that objective that is green is that there is atleast one kerbal, but the docked requirement doesn't go green when I actually dock.

EDIT: I used hyperedit to put one new of each into orbit after removing the prior two vessels (unmanned + manned). After removing the prior two the objectives were still checked green.

When I then docked with the two new vessels the third objective

"Vessel: mKOR (new)"

- Crew: Atleast one kerbal ((CHECKED))

- Docked with: pKOR (new) ((NEVER GETS CHECKED))

So the docked with pKOR never actually gets checked in this contract for me. But this might be because I screwed up the order of how to fullfill the contract.

I'd like to fiddle with my persistance.sfs and see if I can remove the contract and then just take it again?

How would I do that?

Edited May 22, 2015 by Olsson

[Yemo]

Nope, as you can see in the second picture when I'm docked the third objective or whatever doesn't get checked green.

The only thing in that objective that is green is that there is atleast one kerbal, but the docked requirement doesn't go green when I actually dock.

EDIT: I used hyperedit to put one new of each into orbit after removing the prior two vessels (unmanned + manned). After removing the prior two the objectives were still checked green.

When I then docked with the two new vessels the third objective

"Vessel: mKOR (new)"

- Crew: Atleast one kerbal ((CHECKED))

- Docked with: pKOR (new) ((NEVER GETS CHECKED))

So the docked with pKOR never actually gets checked in this contract for me. But this might be because I screwed up the order of how to fullfill the contract.

I'd like to fiddle with my persistance.sfs and see if I can remove the contract and then just take it again?

How would I do that?

Hm, it might be one of those cases where it really want the old vessels to fulfil the contract.

I forgot to deal with this one.

If you use hyperedit, it might be simpler to just cancel the contract, then take it again and hyperedit 2 new vessels into orbit. And make up for the money loss using the debut menu.

- - - Updated - - -

Hm, I will make an update simplifying the conditions. Should be available in the next 15min.

[Olsson]

Hm, it might be one of those cases where it really want the old vessels to fulfil the contract.

I forgot to deal with this one.

If you use hyperedit, it might be simpler to just cancel the contract, then take it again and hyperedit 2 new vessels into orbit. And make up for the money loss using the debut menu.

- - - Updated - - -

Hm, I will make an update simplifying the conditions. Should be available in the next 15min.

Yup it was as we suspected.

I retook the contract, launched a probe, docked with my manned orbit craft and it now satisfies the conditions.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Olsson

[Yemo]

I ll update the mod, even though it is a special case, I do not want to forget to do it.

- - - Updated - - -

SETI-Contracts 0.9.1

Adjustments

• Conditions of first docking contract simplified, thus more robust
  
• Most durations should now be represented in hours, to account for different day formats
  

- - - Updated - - -

SETI-BalanceMod 0.8.9.3

Contracts

• Contracts updated to SETIcontracts 0.9.1
  

TechTree changes

• FL-A10 Adapter moved to start
  

Rebalances & Adjustments

• MysteryGoo, MaterialsBay and SurfaceSample now provide fixed values of science
  
• MysteryGoo and MaterialsBay mass reduced to 80kg, transmission efficiency to 30%
  
• MysteryGoo smaller, MaterialsBay now 0.625m diameter instead of 1.25m
  

[SciFi_Bob]

I really apologise if this has been answered before, if it has please just say so and I'll go looking...

I have gone though the install steps using KSP Mod Admin to build the 'Pack' with all of the specifics and a good chunk of the suggested mods and have a working game \o/

However I have come across a few things while testing that seem a bit strange.

1. When placing some of the engines they come out of the tool bar with flames shooting out of them, when placed they totally mess up the editor. Game restart needed.

2. Even though I have run the SETI pruner and the stock pruners there seem to be some duplicate parts hanging around. For example stack decoupler's are right there next to the procedural ones. The 'Fle' SRB is another example.

I am more than happy to go though and debug what mods are causing the issues but I could use some guidance on how exactly, there seems very little information available in game on what's going wrong with things.

Thanks in advance.

[kcs123]

1. When placing some of the engines they come out of the tool bar with flames shooting out of them, when placed they totally mess up the editor. Game restart needed.

Seems like some of dependencies is missing in install. Something like smokescreen, although it is not needed for every mod. So you need to be more specific, with engine name and from what mod it comes from. Stock part or from another mod. It is hard to help you without proper info, even with good info someone may or may not have a clue what is going on.

[Yemo]

I really apologise if this has been answered before, if it has please just say so and I'll go looking...

I have gone though the install steps using KSP Mod Admin to build the 'Pack' with all of the specifics and a good chunk of the suggested mods and have a working game \o/

However I have come across a few things while testing that seem a bit strange.

1. When placing some of the engines they come out of the tool bar with flames shooting out of them, when placed they totally mess up the editor. Game restart needed.

2. Even though I have run the SETI pruner and the stock pruners there seem to be some duplicate parts hanging around. For example stack decoupler's are right there next to the procedural ones. The 'Fle' SRB is another example.

I am more than happy to go though and debug what mods are causing the issues but I could use some guidance on how exactly, there seems very little information available in game on what's going wrong with things.

Thanks in advance.

Hm, your mentioning of SETI pruner suggests that you are using the SETI-BalanceMod and thus are playing a KSP 0.90 game?

However there was no Flea SRB in KSP 0.90, so I m not sure what version of KSP you are using.

I would need a screenshot of your gamedata folder to have a chance of identifying problems.

The engines with flames does not sound familiar, but as kcs123 said, that is probably a part mod dependency/incompatibility beyond the reach of SETI.

[dizzysaurus]

OK, this bug I freely admit is totally weird and I have no idea how to really reproduce it.

When SetiCTT and CTT are installed, every so often in the normal space view the camera will suddenly zoom completely out very rapidly. Switching to map view then back will reset the camera, but it's fairly annoying!

Has anyone else seen this behaviour as well?

If it weren't for that bug, I'd be using this mod full time, I love it to bits

[kcs123]

OK, this bug I freely admit is totally weird and I have no idea how to really reproduce it.

When SetiCTT and CTT are installed, every so often in the normal space view the camera will suddenly zoom completely out very rapidly. Switching to map view then back will reset the camera, but it's fairly annoying!

Has anyone else seen this behaviour as well?

If it weren't for that bug, I'd be using this mod full time, I love it to bits

Sounds like old bug form tweakscale. Do you have also tweakscale installed ?

[SciFi_Bob]

SETI-BalanceMod and thus are playing a KSP 0.90 game?

*SNIP*

Oh pants! missed that the balance part was 0.9 only :-(

I have huge respect for the modders and I can understand why the community has an aversion to mod packs.. but I really wish there was a 'Play heavily modded KSP' button! :-)

Having said that, it seems to be the Stock Revamp mod that caused this, at least removing it fixes the issue. I guess I am going to have to go through step by set with each mod and test.

My end goal is to have all of the 'stock' parts replaced with procedurals and then build up from there with Remote Tech etc.

[dizzysaurus]

Sounds like old bug form tweakscale. Do you have also tweakscale installed ?

Yes I do, but the issue doesn't happen unless I have SetiCTT and CTT installed.

It looks like there's a bug in KSP that causes this. Weird. I definitely didn't mean to imply that SetiCTT was bad!

[Olsson]

So I know from the balancemod in the OP that you can't collect the data from Materials bay and the mystery goo.

But I do not have this balance mod installed, I'm using the community tech tree though and I can not collect data from these two experiments.

So I edited the appropriate .cfg to change this for myself, but I'm just voicing my opinion and I think you should leave it out of the SETIctt and leave it for the balance mod.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Olsson

[Yemo]

Yes I do, but the issue doesn't happen unless I have SetiCTT and CTT installed.

It looks like there's a bug in KSP that causes this. Weird. I definitely didn't mean to imply that SetiCTT was bad!

I never experienced this or heard of it. Thus my assumption is, that it is caused by some other mod, but triggered by CTT/SETIctt. Could you provide a screenshot of your gamedata folder?

So I know from the balancemod in the OP that you can't collect the data from Materials bay and the mystery goo.

But I do not have this balance mod installed, I'm using the community tech tree though and I can not collect data from these two experiments.

So I edited the appropriate .cfg to change this for myself, but I'm just voicing my opinion and I think you should leave it out of the SETIctt and leave it for the balance mod.

When I start the SETI BalanceMod again, I will seperate some of the balancing configs from the current SETIctt and shift them over to the balance mod.

At the moment it is just not time efficient for me support 2 mods.

However the materials bay and mystery goo would still be part of the SETIctt. Because the SETIctt intends to create a better science/tech progression, especially considering probes.

The materials bay now has a mass of 80kg instead of 200 while giving the same base science, which is balanced with the transmission value. Making it collectible is a serious nerf for probes compared to manned missions.