Minmus Rescue Mission! In Need of Assistance!

[Mattkx4]

Alright, so I'm playing in "Science" mode. Although, being the noob I am, I bumped the Science percentage to 500% (I just started a few days ago...) I successfully designed a Minmus Lander (based off a tutorial mind you) and it got to Minmus. The sad part is, I didn't have enough fuel to get to home from Minmus and I barely had enough fuel to land (my engine blew up on impact because I was going to fast).

So, now I have Jebediah Kerman and butt-load of science stranded on Minmus. I can't just leave all that there...

That's where I need help. I need to be able to make a spacecraft that can hold at least 2 Kerbal's and has plenty of fuel for me to get to and from Minmus. The only 2+ landing pod I have is the Mk1-2 and that's so damn heavy that it's almost impossible for me to use. I tried sticking a unmanned command pod on top of a Mk1 pod (without a crew in it), but I ended up running out of electricity...

I'm really stuck guys. If you can help me with a design of some sort it'd be greatly appreciated! I wanna continue learning this game, but I'm kind of stuck

Thanks,

Mattkx4

MISSION SUCCESSFUL!!!

I can't believe it! I'm proud to say that our rescue mission was a success! After hours of work, here's a summary of how the mission went!

Hour One: Design the Rocket.

I guarantee you that I would not have been able to design an appropriate rocket, had it not been for @Pecan ! He gave me an amazing design for a Mindmus Lander. The problem I was having in designing my own rocket, was I was trying to put more fuel underneath the rocket. And the only way to do that was a larger fuel tank which in turn gave the rocket to much mass when it came to my lower stage (with an lv909). But @Pecan nailed the design by attaching two smaller fuel tanks radially. I added a few extra things like a battery and some nose cones (just because I felt like it ), but for the most part I followed the design. I'm sure this design is very common, but I ain't no Rocket Scientist or Engineer so I wouldn't know

Hour Two: Get into Kerbin Orbit...

This proved a wee bit difficult. I was still trying to follow

and make a 45 degree turn once I hit 100 kilometers up. Now, I know (thanks to @armagheddonsgw) that I can pull it off at ~75km. And since I'm a noob Astronaut (yep I can call myself an Astronaut now), I had troubles getting the Kerbin Orbit right. Eventually got it though.

Hour Three: Get into Mindmus Orbit.

This took me a while because I was having troubles finding Mindmus After a great many maneuver nodes, I finally found one. Then after searching a little bit more, I found an encounter that only required me to increase the prograde and not have to elevate my trajectory with another node.

Hour Four: Getting Landing Near Crotus Ten.

By the way, all my space missions in this "Science" mode are named Crotus One/Two/Three/etc. Crotus is the Roman god of strength so I thought it would be cool. Anyway, Crotus Ten was the rocket with Jeb that got stranded on Mindmus. So I was trying to get my landing within 30km of the landing site. After a few quicksave loads I figured that 30km was a little far for a novice space jumper like me, so I did a little jump with my spacecraft and got it within 10km of the Crotus Ten landing site. From there, I EVAed no problem.

I thought about @DeMatt 's suggestion with EVAing Jeb into Mindmus orbit and picking him up there, but even though I'm confident in my skills, I didn't wanna have to rely on them for this mission Thanks for the suggestion though, I'll definitely remember that I can do that.

A little side joke, you cannot understand the joy I had when Jeb ragdolled and faceslide right past my spacecraft. I thought, "Oh my gosh, this is happening." and then I giggled at how funny Jeb looked when he flops around on the ground like a dead fish.

Hour Four and a Half(ish): Getting Crotus Ten - Rescue back to Kerbin.

This wasn't too difficult. I simply made a maneuver node and increased the prograde (I think) until it escaped Mindmus. Then I fine tuned it until the orbit took me about 20km above Kerbin's surface. Basic re-entering stuff. No big problems there

Finally:

In the end, I recovered some 3,000 science (remember, I'm a cheater and I bumped up the science percentage to 500%). This got me pretty much the rest of my Science tree unlocked. I have like 5 more things I need to get. So mission success! I decided to commemorate the moment with a screenshot once I landed in the ocean. Here it is:

Note that Jebediah Kerman is sitting nicely in his command pod

You can see a picture of the Crotus Ten - Rescue HERE. Turned out to be a pretty spacecraft. (I corrected the staging before launch. I forgot to do it in spacecraft construction.)

THANK YOU!!!!

I'd like to do a huge shout out to everyone who helped me in my rescue mission! I'm taking this game seriously, and you just helped me advance my career Thanks so so much everyone! Quick responses are a huge plus on the forum! If it wasn't for you guys helping me out, I would've given up on Jebediah and probably have quit KSP.

Stay classy everyone,

Mattkx4

Edited January 13, 2015 by Mattkx4
Mission Successful :D

[ghpstage]

Too late for me to come up with something specific, but here's some hints that may help you.

If you want to go up with 2 pods, then use two Mk1 pods, one piloted the other empty. Mk1-2 pods are really poor right now, three of the starter Mk1's placed on a rocket would handily beat it in weight and cost categories.

But you would be much better with an empty pod and a probe core (OKTO, or better yet, QBE), as the cores have far, far lower mass than a whole extra pod. The first ones you get, OX_STAT being the best general purpose ones.

Whatever you choose, don't forget to drain the command pod of monopropellant as you will want all the dV you can get (if you don't know how, right click on the pod when designing).

Edited January 12, 2015 by ghpstage

[DeMatt]

A lot depends on what you are comfortable with. It's no use us building a precision lander rocket if, for example, you don't know how to turn on the RCS.

So. Firstly, do you really need to return the crashed capsule? Because that's going to be Hard with a capital H. Keep in mind that Jeb can EVA and take the science out of the capsule.

Secondly, how comfortable are you with using the EVA jetpack? If you can use Jeb's jetpack to put him into Minmus orbit, then the rescue craft doesn't need to land (and take off again), just match orbits.

Your electricity problem is, of course, easily solved by adding a couple OX-STAT solar panels to the sides, and making sure one of them faces the Sun whenever possible.

[Starhawk]

Sounds like the way to go is, indeed, an unmanned command pod attached to an empty Mk1 pod.

However...

Electricity is a significant issue when using unmanned command pods. If you have access to solar panels, no worries, if not... Hopefully you have access to batteries. You can add radial mount batteries without adding actual weight (or drag) in flight.

If you don't have batteries... Don't worry, Jebediah will keep until you get enough science unlocked to get the batteries or, better yet, solar panels, so you can go and rescue him.

Good luck!

[Pecan]

Here is a two-man vehicle for a return Minmus landing using low-tech parts (I think), so you should have them unlocked:

2xMk1 Lander Cans (one on top of the other)

Attached to the lower can:

* Ladder

* 4xlanding-legs

* 1xLV-909

* 2xFL-T400 fuel tanks radially attached (one each side)

* Fuel lines from the tanks to the engine or can

On the fuel tanks:

* Mk16 parachute on top

* OX-STAT solar panel on the side

= 3,568m/s deltaV (plenty for round-trip, even without aerobraking), mass = 6.6t

Make sure you don't let KSP sneak someone into both cans when you go to launch it!

Anything else we can do for you?

[Anquietas314]

Anything else we can do for you?

Might be worth explaining how to build a launcher to lift that thing; OP did say they were very new. You can get away with 3 lander legs though (2 really since it's Minmus), which'll save a tiny bit of deltaV and make the thing just slightly more stable on slopes if you land it appropriately (you can always get 3 legs to touch the ground, not necessarily true with 4, plus you can more easily play with the suspension after landing to make it stay vertical).

OP: Can you post a link to the tutorial you used for reference? Also, how did you approach getting to Minmus and landing, if that wasn't covered by the tutorial? It's possible your original design is perfectly adequate but you're being very wasteful with maneuvers (remarkably common with new players - orbital mechanics is hard).

[Pecan]

Okey dokey. Launch vehicle for the above:

Stack under the LV-909:

* TR-18A decoupler

* 2x FL-T800 fuel tanks

* LV-T30 engine

Attach 2x TT38K radial decouplers to one of the FL-T800 fuel tanks. Put these 'fore and aft' so they aren't under the fuel tanks on the mission vehicle.

2x boosters attached to the radial decouplers:

* 2x FL-T800 fuel tanks

* 1x FL-T400 fuel tank

* LV-T30 engine

* Fuel lines to core stack

(So you end up with; three stacks of 2 FL-T800s and a T30 each, with the outer, booster, stacks having an extra FL-T400 each).

If you build the booster stacks 'up' so the engines are level you might want to strut their tops to the top lander can for stability. If you build them 'down' so their engines are much lower than the centre one then strut their lower fuel tanks together.

Use symmetry for all the multiple-parts, it's a lot easier than trying to get them aligned by eye.

Kerbin Launch TWR 1.59, 4,883m/s dV vacuum.

Like this:

Arrange staging as:

0: Parachutes

1: LV-909 and TR-18A decoupler

2: Radial decouplers

3: All three T30s

I usually recommend three legs too, because 3-legged stools don't wobble. 4 are so much easier on the octagonal lander-cans though. If it was me I probably wouldn't use any legs, just rest on the two side-tanks, but that requires a bit of confidence in your landing.

Talking of saving mass though - I right clicked on the lander cans and tweaked all the monopropellant out of them, since the vehicle won't be docking.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Pecan

[Kryxal]

Given that design of lander, I'd use 4 legs, placed symmetrically on the tanks ... place one tank, add legs, remove tank and replace after turning symmetry on for the tank.

[Mattkx4]

A lot depends on what you are comfortable with. It's no use us building a precision lander rocket if, for example, you don't know how to turn on the RCS.

So. Firstly, do you really need to return the crashed capsule? Because that's going to be Hard with a capital H. Keep in mind that Jeb can EVA and take the science out of the capsule.

Secondly, how comfortable are you with using the EVA jetpack? If you can use Jeb's jetpack to put him into Minmus orbit, then the rescue craft doesn't need to land (and take off again), just match orbits.

Your electricity problem is, of course, easily solved by adding a couple OX-STAT solar panels to the sides, and making sure one of them faces the Sun whenever possible.

I wasn't planning on returning the capsule. I was just gonna take the science and get Jeb the heck outta there I've practiced a lot with the EVA controls and everything so that isn't a problem. The only thing I have an issue with is getting there and getting little Jeb back

[Mattkx4]

Here is a two-man vehicle for a return Minmus landing using low-tech parts (I think), so you should have them unlocked:

2xMk1 Lander Cans (one on top of the other)

Attached to the lower can:

* Ladder

* 4xlanding-legs

* 1xLV-909

* 2xFL-T400 fuel tanks radially attached (one each side)

* Fuel lines from the tanks to the engine or can

On the fuel tanks:

* Mk16 parachute on top

* OX-STAT solar panel on the side

= 3,568m/s deltaV (plenty for round-trip, even without aerobraking), mass = 6.6t

Make sure you don't let KSP sneak someone into both cans when you go to launch it!

Anything else we can do for you?

Nope, that should work! Thanks for the quick reply

[Mattkx4]

Okey dokey. Launch vehicle for the above:

Stack under the LV-909:

* TR-18A decoupler

* 2x FL-T800 fuel tanks

* LV-T30 engine

Attach 2x TT38K radial decouplers to one of the FL-T800 fuel tanks. Put these 'fore and aft' so they aren't under the fuel tanks on the mission vehicle.

2x boosters attached to the radial decouplers:

* 2x FL-T800 fuel tanks

* 1x FL-T400 fuel tank

* LV-T30 engine

* Fuel lines to core stack

(So you end up with; three stacks of 2 FL-T800s and a T30 each, with the outer, booster, stacks having an extra FL-T400 each).

If you build the booster stacks 'up' so the engines are level you might want to strut their tops to the top lander can for stability. If you build them 'down' so their engines are much lower than the centre one then strut their lower fuel tanks together.

Use symmetry for all the multiple-parts, it's a lot easier than trying to get them aligned by eye.

Kerbin Launch TWR 1.59, 4,883m/s dV vacuum.

Like this:

http://i.imgur.com/LMsX4ONl.png

Arrange staging as:

0: Parachutes

1: LV-909 and TR-18A decoupler

2: Radial decouplers

3: All three T30s

I usually recommend three legs too, because 3-legged stools don't wobble. 4 are so much easier on the octagonal lander-cans though. If it was me I probably wouldn't use any legs, just rest on the two side-tanks, but that requires a bit of confidence in your landing.

Talking of saving mass though - I right clicked on the lander cans and tweaked all the monopropellant out of them, since the vehicle won't be docking.

Thanks so much! The picture really helped! I'll reply back when I get Jeb and my science back home safely

[Mattkx4]

Might be worth explaining how to build a launcher to lift that thing; OP did say they were very new. You can get away with 3 lander legs though (2 really since it's Minmus), which'll save a tiny bit of deltaV and make the thing just slightly more stable on slopes if you land it appropriately (you can always get 3 legs to touch the ground, not necessarily true with 4, plus you can more easily play with the suspension after landing to make it stay vertical).

OP: Can you post a link to the tutorial you used for reference? Also, how did you approach getting to Minmus and landing, if that wasn't covered by the tutorial? It's possible your original design is perfectly adequate but you're being very wasteful with maneuvers (remarkably common with new players - orbital mechanics is hard).

These are very good points. And there's a good chance I was extremely wasteful. Honestly, I was just trying to get there and get home

And interesting thing with landing... The first time I tried to land on Minmus, my craft tipped over. I actually fixed this by EVAing and slamming into my craft (with the jetpack) at fast speeds until it turned over Troubleshootin' y'know

[Anquietas314]

there's a good chance I was extremely wasteful. Honestly, I was just trying to get there and get home

If you followed those tutorials to the letter, then your maneuvers would have been fairly efficient - not optimal, but good enough to not matter much (it's better to get into a ~70-75km orbit instead when you launch from Kerbin).

The first time I tried to land on Minmus, my craft tipped over. I actually fixed this by EVAing and slamming into my craft (with the jetpack) at fast speeds until it turned over Troubleshootin' y'know

Hehe, that's a uh... very literal interpretation of "troubleshooting" . On Minmus you can usually just use the capsule's reaction wheel torque to turn it upright. If that doesn't work try raising the landing gear first, then redeploy them once upright. Same goes for most of the low-gravity worlds. It can work on Mun too, but usually only if you have extra reaction wheels. Much safer than smashing Jeb into the thing

[wibou]

Much safer than smashing Jeb into the thing

But much MUCH less fun

Jeb once said "any landing that doesn't cave in your skull didn't had enough horizontal delta-V"!

[Anquietas314]

Jeb once said "any landing that doesn't cave in your skull didn't had enough horizontal delta-V"!

That should just be "horizontal velocity" . Delta-V is the capacity to change velocity. Yay lithobraking

[Pecan]

MISSION SUCCESSFUL!!!

...make a 45 degree turn once I hit 100 kilometers up.

Congratulations, nice mission-report. It's "Minmus" though ^^.

Start gravity-turn at 10km, not 100! You're only aiming to get to 70-75km anyway, turning then is waaaayyy too late! (standard advice - straight up to 10km altitude, 45-degrees until apoapsis (not altitude - use map view) hits 50km, 20-degrees until apoapsis hits 75km, cut engine, create manoeuvre node to circularise at apoapsis, etc.) You can do it much lower and slower but that'll do for basic newbie method.

[Anquietas314]

MISSION SUCCESSFUL!!!

...make a 45 degree turn once I hit 100 kilometers up.

(stolen borrowed from pecan's post)

Wow dude, no wonder you had issues. That'll add about 2km/s to your deltaV requirement in gravity losses alone, never mind the fact you're starting a gravity turn at 75km... Yeah, just follow Pecan's advice on this one.

[Mattkx4]

Congratulations, nice mission-report. It's "Minmus" though ^^.

Start gravity-turn at 10km, not 100! You're only aiming to get to 70-75km anyway, turning then is waaaayyy too late! (standard advice - straight up to 10km altitude, 45-degrees until apoapsis (not altitude - use map view) hits 50km, 20-degrees until apoapsis hits 75km, cut engine, create manoeuvre node to circularise at apoapsis, etc.) You can do it much lower and slower but that'll do for basic newbie method.

Yeah, whoops. I meant to say I would turn at 10km I was a little silly that night and stressed out lol. Thanks for the info about how to get into orbit!

I might have gotten a little carried away with the mission report, but hey, I was pumped.

- - - Updated - - -

(stolen borrowed from pecan's post)

Wow dude, no wonder you had issues. That'll add about 2km/s to your deltaV requirement in gravity losses alone, never mind the fact you're starting a gravity turn at 75km... Yeah, just follow Pecan's advice on this one.

As I responded to Pecan, I was little giddy that night. I meant to write 10km... It's just a zero after all... I mean what is a zero? Nothing, right?

Thanks for the response!

[Anquietas314]

As I responded to Pecan, I was little giddy that night. I meant to write 10km... It's just a zero after all... I mean what is a zero? Nothing, right?

Heh, that's a relief

I was still trying to follow Scott Manley's Tutorial and make a 45 degree turn once I hit 100 kilometers up. Now, I know (thanks to @armagheddonsgw) that I can pull it off at ~75km.

Well, the mistake was slightly more than an extra zero...