Throttle defaulting to 50% causing problems

[NomenNescio]

So, a while back I aired my protests to this stupid feature with no real argument against it other than "It is annoying". However, in recent playthroughs I've found a real problem with it that's messing up my game.

I create a mun lander that has an orbitter attached, so once escape the atmosphere I have to detach the two crafts circle around and dock them together with attached docking ports, only problem is, once I reconnect the two crafts in docking mode, the throttle resets to 50% and once I exit dockingmode all engines are firing, some in the wrong directions.

So I ask again, could we please get the option to set the default throttle to 0% because this "feature" has ....ed up too many of my missions already, and I'm getting fed up with it.

[archnem]

I have to agree, the auto 50% throttle is highly annoying and kinda pointless.

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

Can you show the example of it? It could be a simple bug that could be fixed

[Liowen]

Hmmm I have had several ships that I have had to redock once I got to space but have never experienced this, you might want to make a fresh save and see if it happens again. If so log it as a bug since the 50% throttle is only suppose to be active on the pad, once you have used the throttle it should not reset to 50% again. Alternatively you could set the lander's engine to be toggle-ablethrough an action group. I wonder if going into docking mode might be causing this to happen? I don't use that myself so maybe that is why I have not experienced it, something to consider while testing to see if it is a bug.

[LordFerret]

Once you attain orbit and are ready for your turnabout docking manuver, do you throttle off first before going into docking mode?

I've Mun and Minmus landers of (from the sound of it) similar configuration. I throttle off once reaching orbit, before attempting docking maneuvers. I also have the lander's main engine(s) toggled in an Action Group key, so that when it's attached to the Command module I can deactive its engine(s) so they won't fire.

[NomenNescio]

Can you show the example of it?

I thought I just did?

Alternatively you could set the lander's engine to be toggle-ablethrough an action group.

The way I get it working is this: after I redock I have to remember to hit the throttle-off-key before exiting dockingmode, otherwise the lander I just docked to is the one whose engines fire.

Edit: to my recollection the engines of the lander shouldn't even be activated at this point, though I'll have to test that to be sure.

Once you attain orbit and are ready for your turnabout docking manuver, do you throttle off first before going into docking mode?

Yes I throttle off before entering docking mode.

Edit2: I've been in the game now and tested it on a new save. My results are thus: turning off all engines before entering docking mode does solve the issue the quite well, though the throttle still resets to 50%, disabling the engines before entering docking mode does fix the problem if a bit inefficiently.

Edited January 18, 2015 by NomenNescio

[Madrias]

I, too, agree that the 50% throttle default needs to go. No self-respecting pilot starts his plane at 50% power. You don't step on the gas pedal in your car about halfway and hold it while turning the key. And with the "Z for Full Throttle" key, 50% needs to go.

The number of times I've had ships engage half-power when I didn't want them to has gotten annoying. I don't so much experience it with docking, but time warps. Come out of 1000x time warp for SOI transition and suddenly have all currently engaged engines blazing away is bad for actually making transition without screwing up the rendezvous. Also devastating to have it happen on ships with barely enough delta-V to make it home.

[NomenNescio]

I think we can agree that what we're asking for isn't for Squad to change things back to the way things were once upon a time, we'd just like a way to disable this asinine "feature".

[DBT85]

Install this

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92076-0-90-DefaultThrottle-set-the-default-50-throttle-on-launch-to-what-YOU-want!

[NomenNescio]

Install this

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92076-0-90-DefaultThrottle-set-the-default-50-throttle-on-launch-to-what-YOU-want!

Thank you!

[Liowen]

I, too, agree that the 50% throttle default needs to go. No self-respecting pilot starts his plane at 50% power. You don't step on the gas pedal in your car about halfway and hold it while turning the key.

My first car actually started like this, it was a 1974 Dodge Dart (car was older than I was LOL). It also could have benefited from a SAS module as well, since power steering and brakes were unheard of in that car LOL.

Back on topic though wen you separate are you hitting the space key or decoupling the node via the mouse? If you are staging might be remembering the last throttle position and staging the engine once it is redocked, I doubt highly this is the case though but you never know. To be honest I never even notice it being at 50% because I hit Z right after, or before, I hit T....provided I remember to hit T at all.

[NecroBones]

Huh, I don't think I've run into it while docking, but I don't use the docking controls mode either.

Personally, I think it's a pointless feature. Starting the throttle at 0 is perfectly fine, and if they want to default it higher, it should be 100%. But 0 makes more sense. It should simply be part of your launch steps, to put the throttle up to what you want, enable SAS (where appropriate), and then launch.

[montyben101]

Yeah it really needs to go, especially since if you enter map view and then leave it again it resets it to 50% again.

[Sufficient Anonymity]

Agreed, very much in favour of it defaulting to 0%

[Pecan]

Apparently 50% throttle is an essential feature that was introduced because otherwise some newbies couldn't launch at all. Finding out there IS a throttle control was deemed too much of a learning-curve.

Yeah, well, that's the story anyway ^^.

[Dispatcher]

I think Squad is trying to force new players to consider throttle strategies (and not too early in stock career mode) by defaulting it at 50%. The new player (or any player in stock career mode) only has SRBs initially, so may be oblivious to the meaning of the throttle setting during those early launches. Once LFRs are obtained, the new player would be in the habit of leaving the throttle alone and perhaps successfully launch a vehicle (but not necessarily flying it) without the frustration of hearing just a hiss at first LFR launch attempt due to a throttle setting of zero.

The 50% default might suggest to a new player that there may be advantages to throttling below 100% initially during launch and early flight. Once that player experiences any problems associated with such flight, the new player is then forced to make some kind of change. This might occur in the VAB through a redesign, or perhaps better yet, the player may try experimenting with the throttle settings during launch and/ or flight.

I'm not saying that I agree with this viewpoint, but it seems to be what Squad had in mind when making the change to the default setting.

[Pecan]

...The new player (or any player in stock career mode) only has SRBs initially...

The liquid-fuelled LV-T30 is tech-level 0.

Career mode is not intended for newbies as it is incredibly complex compared to sandbox; with money, science and reputation, contracts, tech-tree, admin strategies and astronaut specialisation to take into account.

[Madrias]

If it was designed as a training tool, perhaps a nice little 'welcome' message like you get in the SPH or VAB or upon starting a new game would be a good idea instead?

"This is Gene Kerman. The engineers in the VAB/SPH have informed me that they equipped liquid-fuel engines on your craft for the first time. Are you at all acquainted with the throttle controls?"

(Yes)

"Very well. I'll let you get back to your flight."

(No)

"It's simple, really. You press and hold the {throttle up} key to increase power gradually, and press and hold the {throttle down} key to decrease power gradually. Pressing the {full throttle} key will set the throttle to 100%. Pressing the {zero throttle} key will set the throttle to 0%."

(If engine is a jet engine, add this additional warning.)

"Oh, don't forget, jet engines don't respond instantly. They slowly spool up, and they take a bit to wind back down."

[Liowen]

Well you could set the jet to toggle on/off if you want it to be shut off instantly, regardless of throttle setting. I learned this the hard way....and why I do not put engines on the 2 key anymore.

To the OP any luck replicating this issue? I am curious if any of the suggestions did the trick.

[Dispatcher]

The liquid-fuelled LV-T30 is tech-level 0...

Ooops! You're right; I have such a habit of using only SRBs in career mode until I require more control, that I've simply ignored that. I had forgotten that its even available then.

I'd like to see the default set at zero throttle and once the launch bar is pressed, a UI light blinks red for liquid fueled rockets until the throttle is engaged; this might help the new players.

[Laie]

The liquid-fuelled LV-T30 is tech-level 0.

Career mode is not intended for newbies as it is incredibly complex compared to sandbox; with money, science and reputation, contracts, tech-tree, admin strategies and astronaut specialisation to take into account.

Started in sandbox, was overwhelmed by the plethora of parts, went into career where things were gradually introduced to me. I can't believe I'm the only one.

[DBT85]

Ooops! You're right; I have such a habit of using only SRBs in career mode until I require more control, that I've simply ignored that. I had forgotten that its even available then.

I'd like to see the default set at zero throttle and once the launch bar is pressed, a UI light blinks red for liquid fueled rockets until the throttle is engaged; this might help the new players.

Surely a simple check that if the first stage comprises a liquid rocket and the spacebar is pressed with 0% throttle then a notification could pop up to show/remind the player that they need to give it some beans and how to do that. The notification can have a "Ok" button and a "Don't remind me a again" checkbox.

The liquid-fuelled LV-T30 is tech-level 0.

Career mode is not intended for newbies as it is incredibly complex compared to sandbox; with money, science and reputation, contracts, tech-tree, admin strategies and astronaut specialisation to take into account.

I would say the best mode for new players is science. No contracts, no funds, no trying to unlock patched conics or manoeuvre nodes so they can follow a Scott Manley tutorial. Just parts and building stuff.

I only ever recommend Science mode for new players along side a few youtube playlists.

Edited January 19, 2015 by DBT85

[Superfluous J]

Started in sandbox, was overwhelmed by the plethora of parts, went into career where things were gradually introduced to me. I can't believe I'm the only one.

Did you start playing in 0.90?

I started before career was a mode, so I started in Sandbox. I was confused for a long time but muddled my way through. When career mode (what is now Science Mode) was introduced, I at once jumped into it happy for direction but also saw it as a great place for new people to learn the game.

When actual career mode was introduced (and what used to be "career mode" turned into "science mode" I still felt that the way to go was full career for a new person, but suggested to anybody having trouble making money to switch instead to sandbox mode.

Now that 0.90 has made career mode significantly harder (which I love for me personally) I would no longer suggest a new person try career mode. I think - until you are at LEAST comfortable getting a rocket to Mun and back - you play around in science mode. Not sandbox, because it's too easy to drown in the choices. Not career, because it's too hard to even get into orbit ever unless you play very well for a total beginner. Science: Where you have to work but can make as many mistakes as you need to learn.

[NomenNescio]

Install this

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92076-0-90-DefaultThrottle-set-the-default-50-throttle-on-launch-to-what-YOU-want!

After testing the mod, it does indeed reset the throttle to 0 at the launchpad, BUT as it turns out it doesn't affect my docking mode issue; in docking mode the throttle still resets to 50%.

[Superfluous J]

So this is actually a problem with docking MODE? Not just docking and undocking ships? That would explain why I've never seen it. My brain does not function correctly when you change what all the major keys on the keyboard do in the middle of a game, so after about 10 seconds of experimenting back 18 months ago or so, I've never used docking mode.

It's a terrible suggestion I suspect, but have you tried docking without switching modes? I can dock with no problems controlling my ship with wasdqe for rotation and ijklhn for translation. I don't even think about it anymore and just do it.