[1.9-1.10] Throttle Controlled Avionics

[drhay53]

On 5/4/2016 at 10:23 PM, allista said:

Alas, TCA-3.2 will only be out in about two-three weeks, because with it I plan to release the new set of orbital autopilots including landing from orbit, "ballistic jump" and rendezvou. Unlike VTOL mode, these are complex and still need much testing, tuning and debugging.

By "ballistic jumps" do you mean suborbital hops? Because if so, that would be amazing.

[allista]

2 hours ago, drhay53 said:

By "ballistic jumps" do you mean suborbital hops? Because if so, that would be amazing.

Yep. You may see a prototype in action here, starting at 10:15:

 

[drhay53]

That's brilliant, I have to say you're really blowing things away with this mod. Lot's of things I've wished I could have for a very long time.

Will it work in atmospheric planets? The drag makes it hard but with correcting burns you could probably still do it, for alot more delta-v of course.

[allista]

5 minutes ago, drhay53 said:

That's brilliant, I have to say you're really blowing things away with this mod. Lot's of things I've wished I could have for a very long time.

Will it work in atmospheric planets? The drag makes it hard but with correcting burns you could probably still do it, for alot more delta-v of course.

I'm trying to make it work, but the thicker the atmosphere, the harder it is to predict a landing site with small enough error; aerodynamics is a difficult thing 

All in all, it should work where it is reasonably applicable. And the ship built matters: a slim rocket should work better than an asymmetrical behemoth 

[Redshift OTF]

Heh, I just realised this myself when trying to use this mod with a plane using a single cluster of Juno's. I redesigned the plane with separate multiple engines instead. (Sorry, meant to quote a post here but it didn't appear)

Thank you for this wonderful mod Allista! The only issue I have with it is that it seems to over-ride manual gear deployment and lands the plane on its belly and then deploys the gear. Is there any way to turn this off so I can control when I deploy the gear myself? Thanks.

Edit: never mind, I went into advanced and turned off VTOL assist landing and it worked.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Redshift OTF

[Steel Dragon]

is there a way to make a macro to have a squadron perform a key bind? I want to beable to deploy drills and start / stop them without having to switch from ship to ship starting them up.

[allista]

10 minutes ago, Steel Dragon said:

is there a way to make a macro to have a squadron perform a key bind? I want to beable to deploy drills and start / stop them without having to switch from ship to ship starting them up.

No, currently Macros do not support neither squadron mode nor action groups. But I have plans to implement the former, and now that you've mentioned it, to add the latter as well.

[Steel Dragon]

Well there appears to be some functionality there already. As craft with radiators and solar panels that retract deploy them when landing or retract when lifting off if you set them as Gear in the key-binds in game. I guess you have code in there that has craft raise and lower landing gear based on altitude. This works well.

As always thank you for the speedy reply and really loving the mod keep up the hard work

Edited May 8, 2016 by Steel Dragon

[SwooperDuper]

Having same problem as Novahike...I usually just take the Gamedata folder and drop it into the root folder for Kerbal Space Program.  Is there more to installing this Mod?  It is currently the only mod I'm trying to install and all I get is the manual on the tool bar in game just like NovaHike did.  You said something about the "Module Manage." In your response to him and I am not figuring this out at all...do I need another mod to make this work? Am I supposed to manually move around the plugins?  I'm somewhat confused on how to install this mod...?

[allista]

2 minutes ago, SwooperDuper said:

Having same problem as Novahike...I usually just take the Gamedata folder and drop it into the root folder for Kerbal Space Program.  Is there more to installing this Mod?  It is currently the only mod I'm trying to install and all I get is the manual on the tool bar in game just like NovaHike did.  You said something about the "Module Manage." In your response to him and I am not figuring this out at all...do I need another mod to make this work? Am I supposed to manually move around the plugins?  I'm somewhat confused on how to install this mod...?

Yes, as stated in the Manual, you need to install the ModuleManager mod for this mod (and countless others) to work.

[SwooperDuper]

Well...tried to install the ModuleManager mod and there's no instructions for that either...so I guess basically I have to stick to vanilla or simple to use mods.

[allista]

20 minutes ago, SwooperDuper said:

Well...tried to install the ModuleManager mod and there's no instructions for that either...so I guess basically I have to stick to vanilla or simple to use mods.

There are instructions, but to make a shortcut for you: just place the ModuleManager.dll inside the GameData folder. Note, that this dll is for KSP-1.1.2; if you're playing other version, find corresponding dll in the MM thread to which I have pointed above.

[Speadge]

well.. ok, i tried v3.1 now in KSP 1.1... and to be honest: i hate it!

I spent about an hour to understand that engines toggled via actiongroup need an update in the engineprofile, which in turn wont happen when u dont have the "update TCA-Profile" actions in this groups... or not for all control modules.

Updating/creating an actiongroup so needs to search for all C.Modules and add them to that group.

And even then there are update issues while in flight... I HATE those engine profiles... and the fact that i cant toggle engines via context menu anymore....

 

PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE add an option for ignoring those profiles and act like in TCA v2 again: DONT toggle engines at all and leave it to the player....
While trying out all this and failing several times, KSP crashed also 2 times.. not saying its cause of the mod, but this combination let me almost freak out and i am near to lose my ambition to play it..... I just dont want to struggle with all those configurations anymore...... :'(

 

Please - dont take it for a hatecomment, but honest critic on the latest updates and that there are ppl that just liked the way it worked before (no profiles(optional) or at least dont toggle engine state at all (optional))

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited May 9, 2016 by Speadge

[allista]

33 minutes ago, Speadge said:

well.. ok, i tried v3.1 now in KSP 1.1... and to be honest: i hate it!

I spent about an hour to understand that engines toggled via actiongroup need an update in the engineprofile, which in turn wont happen when u dont have the "update TCA-Profile" actions in this groups... or not for all control modules.

Updating/creating an actiongroup so needs to search for all C.Modules and add them to that group.

And even then there are update issues while in flight... I HATE those engine profiles... and the fact that i cant toggle engines via context menu anymore....

PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE add an option for ignoring those profiles and act like in TCA v2 again: DONT toggle engines add all and leave it to the player....
While trying out all this and failing several times, KSP crashed also 2 times.. not saying its cause of the mod, but this combination let me almost freak out and i am near to lose my ambition to play it..... I just dont want to struggle with all those configurations anymore...... :'(

Please - dont take it for a hatecomment, but honest critic on the latest updates and that there are ppl that just liked the way it worked before (no profiles(optional) or at least dont toggle engine state at all (optional))

Thanks

Noted. I'll think what I can do.

[Speadge]

46 minutes ago, allista said:

Noted. I'll think what I can do.

thanks...
and sry if i was kind of to harsh... v2 was great and suprised me of what creations i could get to run with it...

Its a great mod and I love that it seems that u got the jet-engines to work with it quite well.... but i dont dare to try them since i know it'll start to make me cry since I have to use it in a very specific way (profiles).

V2 was kinda "stock-alike" since it felt like an extension that fits neatly to what u have ingame (i.e. actiongroups). v3 tries to manage some things in a different way which might be good for many builds, perhaps even I will find it useful some day - but at the moment i just cant get to work with those profiles and its "update-workaround" as its not nearly as functional and intuitive like the old version.

Again: great work. I just needed to let off some steam

[rafat abubreak]

first thing these mod very awesome thnx for the hard work just one thing if you can make the control window smaller or update the phase it well be beater and one more thing if you add option that make the ship switch  manover between vertical and horizontal in fly that well be awesome too    thnx again for these mod

[Rushligh]

While it's certainly cool and complicated... im having some... trouble with it.

not only with it NOT completely turn off unless i uninstall it, it causes my ships so go into an out-of-controll spin; nose up. I've been using a number of mods that correct certain aerodynamic rations... even after removing them i get the same problem.

just as a test i imported a craft i used in 1.0.5 with your older version... same issue. i tries using the old version in 1.1.2 but it seems to be disabled or unrecognized.

[FirroSeranel]

I'm having trouble with this, and I'm kind of at a loss as to why.

I have a ship that I'm trying to land on the Mun. It is entirely comprised of RoverDude's Karibou Rover parts (very tubular rocket-like rover with segments with VTOL engines). It has a cockpit that is oriented just like a rocket's, only no engines aft. Instead the only engines are the VTOL engines (perpendicular to the cockpit's axis). Therefore, it also has a probe core oriented such that its vertical is normal to the thrust vector of the rockets, for easier manual control.

With stock SAS it works beautifully. If I control from the cockpit, it orients just like a rocket. If I control from the probe core, it orients according to the engines (so if I set it to Retrograde for example, it will thrust retrograde and decrease orbital velocity appropriately). The only problem is that (predictably) as fuel burns, it grows increasingly unbalanced, until engine torque can no longer be compensated for by reaction wheels and RCS. So that's where TCA comes in.

Only... most settings for TCA don't act anything like what the manual says. First off, the manual says that it should orient the thrust vector, regardless of the orientation of the command module. This is clearly not the case for this craft, as it definitely -tries- to orient according to the active control module.

I say tries, because the only modes that really seem to work at all are Kill Rotation, and Hover. Any other mode causes it to begin oscillating, seemingly at random but dynamically unstably, about all axes,  until the ship is wildly spinning and gyrating out of control. Meanwhile TCA is quite happily firing engines and RCA thrusters to -increase- the oscillations rather than stabilize them. The error reads correctly, oddly enough. So for example, if I have the ship under the probe core's control, and have Jeb point the engines Retrograde, it orients so a burn would slow it down. I then activate TCA, and push the Retrograde switch. It turns green, it shows Error=0.0. Then it starts to slowly oscillate in all three axes, swinging back and forth about three times before the error gets to about 180°. There, it seems to dampen briefly, before it, for all intents and purposes, completely loses its mind and just starts spinning the ship wildly and indefinitely, with engines and RCS all firing at random.

This behavior persists no matter how I set up the action groups, and no matter whether RCS is on or off, the engines are on or off, the engines are set to a group or not, the engines are set to Main Engines, or Balanced Thrust, no matter whether I'm controlling from the cockpit or the probe core...

Stop seems to make it choose a random vector and thrust to match it while gyrating wildly.

Both stock SAS and MechJeb behave as expected, though both orient according to the active control module. But MechJeb's PID tuning is way too weak to even begin to control a craft with any degree of torque, and even the stock SAS gets overwhelmed once fuel is at about 2/3.

So... what am I doing wrong? Is there something about the Karibou Rover that is incompatible with TCA?

[drhay53]

I seem to remember with the Karibou way back that TCA had alot of trouble. I think the only way I ended up controlling that thing was by severely damping the error term in the mechjeb PID settings. The moment of inertia about that long narrow axis is just crazy small compared to the normal situations that these mods are designed for.

[FirroSeranel]

Actually I have a theory that it might be because it only interprets each VTOL section as a single engine. Yet the thrust vectors of the two engines are animated separately, and from what I can tell, functionally separate as well. So maybe that's seriously throwing off the autopilot somehow? Though I then had another very strange circumstance, where its wheels seemed to get 'caught' on the atmosphere, instantly slowing the craft to about 30 m/s the instant I touched the atmosphere at 69,999m. It flipped out spastically, then slowly fell wheels-up, all the way to about 12 km, then the wheels -finally- obeyed my command to fold in, and suddenly it fell like a stone to parachute altitude. So there's something wonky with the Karibou I think...

[drhay53]

Can someone describe the 'optimal' setup for building a new VTOL craft that uses the engine modes? I feel like I'm missing something but I can never really get anything other than 'main engine' to work properly.

 

Should I put horizontal engines on and call them "maneuver" engines for translational stuff? Or are maneuver engines more like RCS, only for rotating the craft more efficiently?

[FirroSeranel]

2 hours ago, drhay53 said:

Can someone describe the 'optimal' setup for building a new VTOL craft that uses the engine modes? I feel like I'm missing something but I can never really get anything other than 'main engine' to work properly.

 

Should I put horizontal engines on and call them "maneuver" engines for translational stuff? Or are maneuver engines more like RCS, only for rotating the craft more efficiently?

According to the manual, maneuver engines are only activated upon control input, whether rotational or translational, just like RCS thrusters. Otherwise the autopilot attempts to minimize their thrust at all times.

I believe for a space-based craft you'll want most of your engines to be "Main Engines", which control both vertical velocity and attitude. For an atmospheric VTOL I think you'll want most of your engines to be "Balanced Thrust" which only control vertical velocity, while minimizing torque. Then if you want longitudinal engines for rocket-orientation burns at maneuver nodes and the like, you'd put those on "Manual Control" and switch them on and off as needed. You -could- put them on "Maneuver Engines" and use your fore translational control to activate them... but that would mean giving up throttle control, which can be very helpful for precisely hitting maneuver nodes. Still, if you also have RCS, you could use that to fine-tune once you've done the bulk of the burn with the maneuver engine.

But I'm not an expert, so if anyone else has a better idea, feel free to correct me!

[TheDestroyer111]

HEEEELP!!!!!

Only the "TCA MAN" button appears in my AppLauncher, there are no other buttons visible, no matter if in flight, or editor! I don't use toolbar, but i think that TCA is, as you said, compatible with no-toolbar ksp... Maybe the issue is caused by me not having ModuleManager? I don't have MM and don't want to because it has already corrupted my 1.0.5 game making it unusable.

Edited May 15, 2016 by TheDestroyer111
Small correction

[kcs123]

Almost all of mods have dependency on module manager. MM is not the one that breaks your game, most probably you have wierd situations where some other mods are in conflict with each other. Or you didn't install something properly in the first place.

[ss8913]

Long-time user, first (or second) time poster here... with the previous version that I had in 1.0.5, I knew what I was doing.  Now I feel like I don't.  I built a craft in 1.1.2 similar to my old designs, with two augmented arcjet ATILLA thrusters pointing downward, both in front of and behind the CoM.  In the previous version with the default settings, I'd fire up the engines, set SAS and RCS to on, turn on TCA, throttle up and the craft would balance thrust between the two engines and lift my craft majestically into the air.

 

Sadly this seems to no longer be the case (I have read the manual, just now, before posting and before flying, it doesn't seem to address my question).  It... basically does little or nothing to control the attitude, and I have to set the thrust limiter on one or both of my engines manually to avoid flipping backwards or fowards.  The effect is worse with TCA off so I know TCA is doing *something* but it seems to be relying only on RCS authority and not engine limits.  I've tried setting the VTOL engines to "balanced thrust," which made very little difference (if at all).  What am I missing here?

Second issue - the Exception Tracker mod is claiming that TCA is throwing thousands of exceptions per minute in the RCS initialization function.  This may be because I'm using KSPIE's 5-way retractable resistojet thrusters and not stock RCS; however in 1.0.5 I was using these same parts and not seeing any problems.  I do not know if my 2 issues are related however.  As I said, I was using these same RCS (and those same ATILLA VTOL engines) in 1.0.5 and TCA "just worked" out of the box when I turned it on.  If I'm doing something wrong here please correct my behavior   thank you.