[0.90] ADIOS Tech Tree - V.15 - 12-03-2015

[Arachnidek]

@Grunf911, @Austinator48

OPT updated to 1.6. Should be ok now.

@BlueTiger12

Missed that in this version. Already fixed for V15. To unlock the 3km omni range you'll have to research Probes tech node (it's the same now but i'll show in the tech tree properly).

@Shtirliz72

Done.

[Parmenides]

great work again!!!! Thanks a lot!

[Grunf911]

@Grunf911, @Austinator48

OPT updated to 1.6. Should be ok now.

Done.

Awesome, and I saw you introduced some additional Experimental cockpits and other stuff, nice work.

Thx

[DarthWall]

erhm.... just to say.....I think Procedural Wings sould be in Wings sections, and now it is in Unmanned Rocketry.

[Grunf911]

erhm.... just to say.....I think Procedural Wings sould be in Wings sections, and now it is in Unmanned Rocketry.

Hi Arachnidek

Decided to put an effort into rebalancing a few parts according to common sense (or at least what makes common sense to me ). I like where you are going with it, but figured especially spaceplanes could use a little improvement.

I used no-tech cost tree for testing. V14

Since there are many suggestions i will keep the following format:

Part Name -> Originating Tree Node (Where it is) - Suggested Tree Node (where i would put it) ....so here goes

-----------As suggested above----------------------------

PWing - Mark 2 -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Aerodynamic Surfaces

PWing - Mark 2 Tip -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Aerodynamic Surfaces

PWing - Mark 4 -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Aerodynamic Surfaces

AllmovingPWing - Mark 1 -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Aerodynamic Surfaces

PWing - B9 SH -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Experimental Wing Construction

PWing - SP+ -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Experimental Wing Construction

PControlSurface - Mark 1 -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Experimental Wing Construction

PControlSurface - B9 SH -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Experimental Wing Construction

-------My own additions---------------------

Sabre M Precooler -> Cockpits -> Advanced Air Intake

Mk2 Crew Tank -> Cockpits -> Advanced Multi Personnel Spaceflight

I-LS AA Cockpit -> In-Line Cockpits -> Advanced Cockpits

Mk3 Cockpit -> Advanced Cockpits

NOTE: You have 2x Advanced Cockpit nodes after each other - I assume the following one to be Experimental Cockpits

----

OPT I-J Space Plane Cockpit -> Advanced Cockpits -> Experimental Cockpits

Elevon 1 -> Aerodynamic Surfaces -> Control Surfaces

Elevon 2 - 5 -> SAME THING

Adjustable Landing Gear (Small) -> Heavyweight Landing Gear -> Landing Gear

Linear Aerospike Rocket -> Advanced Jet Engines -> Future Spaceplane Engines

Sabre S Engine -> Turbojet -> Rapier

Sabre M Engine -> Advanced Turbojet -> Rapier

KAE-750 PropFan -> Rapier -> Advanced Jet Engines

KAE-150s Inline Turbojet -> Advanced Jet Engines

Mk1 Liquid Fuel Fuselage -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Flight

SUGGESTION: RENAME Escape Boosters -> Abort Modules (or Ejection Systems)

X-1100 Self Destruct (from TAC Self Destruct) -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Abort Modules

VNG-XE Ejection Module -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Abort Modules

VNG-PB Parachute Box -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Chutes

D.E.R.P. Lifeboat Module -> Manned Spaceflight -> Abort Modules

CORRECTION: Lightweight Boosters should be precursor tech for Booster Miniaturization (or vice versa, not sure on flow), not Heavy Boosters. (just taking other node for precursor)

Universal Storage Core - Quad -> HeavyWeight Construction -> Science Storage

-------

If you find changes useful, feel free to just include them in V.15

Edited March 3, 2015 by Grunf911

[Austinator48]

@Grunf911, @Austinator48

OPT updated to 1.6. Should be ok now.

Done.

I like the way you rearranged them. I basically put the 2.5m ones with the Mk3 and the super OPT jets in the advanced jets. By the way how do you place nodes in the tech tree? Do you just assign the parent node and tech manager just auto places it or something else?

Also I have XT Landatrons added into your tech tree for all my remote tech landing probe needs. I really recommend it.

[Invader Myk]

I'm using Antenna Range (mainly because I don't want the transmission delay w/ remotetech) which makes unmanned vehicles uncontrollable without an antenna. Which makes perfect sense to me. When I installed ADIOS I saw the unmanned start option and decided to give it a try. Unfortunately, there are no antennae in the initial tech node with this option. Would you be willing to move the Communatron 16 to the unmanned starting tech? If not, could some one give me a work-around to make these two mods compatible?

edit:

In the mean time I'll content myself with yet another manned start play through.

[Austinator48]

I'm using Antenna Range (mainly because I don't want the transmission delay w/ remotetech) which makes unmanned vehicles uncontrollable without an antenna. Which makes perfect sense to me. When I installed ADIOS I saw the unmanned start option and decided to give it a try. Unfortunately, there are no antennae in the initial tech node with this option. Would you be willing to move the Communatron 16 to the unmanned starting tech? If not, could some one give me a work-around to make these two mods compatible?

edit:

In the mean time I'll content myself with yet another manned start play through.

Antenna Range isn't supported in this tech tree mod. Supported mods are listed in the initial post. You start with the Reflectron DP-10 in the initial tech node when using remotetech2 which has a range of 500km.

Edit: RemoteTech2 has an option to turn off signal delay

Edited March 4, 2015 by Austinator48
Remembered said thing about remote tech

[Invader Myk]

RemoteTech2 has an option to turn off signal delay

I did not know that. I'll give RemoteTech a try then.

[Grunf911]

I did not know that. I'll give RemoteTech a try then.

Just edit RemoteTech.cfg and put the variable signalDelay or something to false. As simple as that

[Shtirliz72]

Done.

Yay! It will be in v15?

[Thorbane]

I think the escape boosters should be much earlier in the tech tree. They aren't exactly complicated as rockets go, they're also heavy, inefficient, and designed to do exactly one thing. They're also something NASA didn't launch a manned flight without until the Space Shuttle.

[admiral_ant]

Hey there, loving this tech tree! I've got one request though, would it be possible to look at supporting KSPX? (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/107047). It's a pretty popular stockalike parts pack, and currently all the parts show up in "unmanned rocketry", which is WAY early.

Thanks for the sweet tree!

[khearn]

I've been playing with ADIOS for a week or so, and am really enjoying it. But I've run into a few things on the tech tree that don't make sense to me. I realize that the tree is a work in progress, so please think of these as suggestions for possible improvements, and not as complaints.

One thing is having to unlock heavy rocket engines before getting small ones. I was trying to design a rover with small engines for Mun & Minmus landings, and couldn't figure out why I didn't have any small rockets, until I finally discovered them after the heavy engines. Goddard was making small engines long before anyone was making big ones. Actually, it would be nice to reorganize the rocket engines more on the basis of efficiency, rather than size. Make the early engines be ones with low ISP, and work up to the better engines as one goes along. Hmmm, having to earn one's way to the heavy boosters also makes sense, though. Maybe base it on both efficiency and size. Start with a small and medium rocket that are both fairly low ISP, then have tech nodes with progressively better engines. Maybe 3 branches for small, medium, and large engines with a few levels on each for increasing efficiency, or something like that. But small rockets should certainly be available early, since that's how rocketry started.

Another thing is having to go through pretty much all of the solar panels in order to get to the first Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator (RTG). In real life, we've been making RTGs since the 1950s, about the same time as the first practical solar panels were available. Having to wait until one has reached the pinnacle of solar panel tech before starting the most basic nuke tech doesn't really feel right. I think nuclear energy should be a parallel branch to solar. To avoid having people get something futuristic like Nerva too early (yes, I know NASA was working on it in the late 60s, but we still haven't actually flown one), just make it have a much higher science cost.

I haven't made it all the way through yet, so I'm still trying to find some parts that I think I should have found already, like the basic PPD-10 Hitchhiker Storage Container. Since it's basically just a tube with some seats installed, I think it ought to show up earlier than the multi-crew command pods. Command pods are much more complex, with controls and instruments and whatnot. Right now if I want to complete a contract for a orbital station (or one on Mun or Minmus) I have to stick multiple command pods on it to get enough crew capacity. That seems like a pretty kludgy way to have to fulfill those contracts. Maybe one branch for passenger modules and one for command pods, with increasing capacity/capability on each branch?

Again, please accept the above as constructive suggestions, not as complaints. I think you've made a great start with this mega-meta-mod, and I hope you'll keep working on it to make it better and better. Thanks for all the work you've put into it.

Keith

[archont]

My mind is blown. I'm giddy with excitement, installing, will report back.

[Thorbane]

The KSPI reactors don't seem to be upgrading as they should.

[B4rberblacksheep]

I know you're probably sick to the back teeth with mod suggestions to integrate but may I suggest Fustek Station parts and AIES Aerospace? AIES is a great mod IMO which adds a tonne of functional parts (not to mention some nice RemoteTech antennae) and Fustek Station parts adds some really good station components which I feel would fit in. I'm looking forwards to having a play with this either way, thank god for CKAN or this would be a nightmare to install.

[Arachnidek]

I've already integrated AIES for V.15. Release soon. I'll try to integrate fustek why not. More answers soon - quite busy with the mod atm.

@Thorbane

I'll try to fix it for V15. If it won't be a quickfix i'll leave this for V16.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Arachnidek

[Grunf911]

@Arachnidek - did you by any chance look at my suggestions ?

I did the modifications on my private version of your tree, let me know if you want it to speed up integration. (provided you think changes are ok, of course)

[Arachnidek]

V.15 released.

Changes:

------ V.15 - 12-03-2015 ----- Balancing Part 3

- Added KSPX support

- Added XT Landertrons support

- Added B9 Procedural Parts support

- Added AIES support

- Added Radial Engine Mounts support

- Added Stanford Torus support

- Added Bdynamics support

- Added PEST support

- Added Impossible Innovations support

- Added Oblivion Aerospace Pack support

- Added Fustek Station Parts support

- Added TAC Self Destruct support

- Reworked the Life Support/Waste Management/Manned Spaceflight main branch

- Reworked the Fuel Tanks/RCS/Gas Storage main branch

- Reworked of the Wings/Control Surfaces branch - will still need to balance some parts here

- Additional rework for Solar Panel/Energy Generation/Laser branch

- Added Crew Compartments technology branch (3 tech nodes almost empty for now - that's for v16 )

- Added Orbital Superstructures node (mainly for Stanford Torus mod)

- Moved Thruster miniaturization earlier.

- Decreased karbonite branch RP cost

- Decreased engine cluster branch RP cost

- Increased new solar panel branch RP cost

- Changed some electronics RP cost

- Increased cockpits branch RP cost (advanced cockpits way to easy to get)

- Fixed 3km internal probe antenna range (Probes technology)

- Fixed SpaceY Heavy lifters 0.11 part placement

- Moved parts around within the tech tree (too many to mention all) - thanks Grunf911

- Contract Configurator update to 0.6.7

[khearn]

Wohoo! Can't wait to get home to give it a try. I guess This will pretty much require a new campaign start though. And I was just about to launch my 4 vehicle Duna probe mission. Oh well, I was wishing I had Smart Parts on it anyway, so this gives me a chance to add them.

Thanks again for all the work you've put into this.

Keith

[Arachnidek]

Well V15 is released. There were some things that i wanted to do with it before release (like moving more parts to the new crew compartment branch or adding some more descriptions) but i'll leave this for V16. Right now i'm pretty happy with how the tree looks so the next update won't have any more major tree reworks. For the next version i want to concentrate on moving more parts within the tech tree and adding more mods and contracts to the tech tree. I definitely could use some help with the spaceplane wings and control surfaces part of the tree. Since the V15 update i think there are going to be some parts within that branch that just aren't supposed to be there and it's going to be really hard to find them all on my own with the amount of mods this tree currently supports. So if anyone sees a part that basicly "doesn't belong" just give me a shout.

Again with this version it is recommended to start a new game and not using it for older saves.

Anyway:

@DarthWall

Procedural Parts is supported now and should appear correctly within the tech tree.

@Grunf911

Most of your suggestions have been implemented. Thanks a lot for those.

About parts:

VNG-XE Ejection Module -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Abort Modules

VNG-PB Parachute Box -> Unmanned Rocketry -> Chutes

What mod are they from ? They're not in the supported ones ?[0.25]Vanguard Technologies | EVA parachutes ?

I did some changes in the wings/control surfaces part of the tech tree. That's where your suggestions and part placement within the tech tree differ a bit.

If you have any more suggestions feel free - more information the better the tree will get. Thanks again.

@Austinator48

XT Landertrons - done.

I like the way you rearranged them. I basically put the 2.5m ones with the Mk3 and the super OPT jets in the advanced jets. By the way how do you place nodes in the tech tree? Do you just assign the parent node and tech manager just auto places it or something else?

It's quite a simple process really. I place them by hand There is a specific syntax you have to follow with the techmanager mod and that's it.

To see how it will look inside the game i've created an excel sheet with a grid and coordinates to represent how will they appear ingame (see the first post - imgur gallery last picture). The green parts are nodes with rp cost and the yellow are visualizations of where more or less the paths are going to be in the tech tree look (to make them look clean and not overlap). The orange bits represent when a node is going to have more than one parent.

After that it's basicly a lot of copying and typing. For example a single node from the tech tree:

    NODE
    {
        name = node5_basicreactionwheels   - this is my node name and how the techmanager will see it (for the node parents section)
        techID = largeControl                      - this is how the ksp game will see the node (this one is different than the name and has a stock node name to fool the stock contract generator so it won't break)
        pos = -1950,1500,-1                       - position within the tech tree (i get the coordinates from the excel sheet i've created - the last number should always be -1)
        icon = ADVFLIGHTCONTROL              - icon name 
        cost = 75                                      - rp cost
        title = Basic Reaction Wheels            - this is the name of the node the player will see ingame
        description = Placeholder.                - and it's description seen ingame
        anyParent = False                           - if set to true when a node has 2 or more parents you just need to research one of them to be able to research this node - if set to false you need to research all of the parents
        hideIfEmpty = False                        - if set to true when a player hasn't got a mod installed with parts connected to that node it won't show ingame for that player
        parents = node4_stability,node4_basicelectronics     - parents of this node (the game will connect the lines seen ingame by itself when correctly provided with the parent nodes)
        PARTS                                          - a list of parts for every node 
        {
        name = NP.sas.25m
        name = B9.Cockpit.MK1.Control.SAS
        name = asasmodule1-2
        name = FSapacheNoseASAS
        name = fsgyroscope
        name = 1x1SAS        
        name = Kosmos.VA.RRV.ASAS
        name = tele.gru2
        name = advSascr3

        }
    }

And basicly it's copying and pasting and changing every node by hand to create new ones.

I also use the Tech Tree Editor but it's only good to get a list of parts to use with the tree. It's worthless for anything else - the coordinates are totally wrong, part names are pasted with _ instead of . so the parts are unrecognized in the tech tree(that's techmanagers fault but you need it to load the tech tree) and every time you load a tech tree to the editor it loses node parents and coordinates (you can't save a tree correctly).

@khearn

RTG matter - with the new reorganization of the solar panel/energy generation branch it should be better.

I totally agree on the crew compartment matter. For a while now I didn't like the amount of crew parts all around the tech tree and wanted to group them together in some way - that's the reason behind the crew compartments branch.

And for the engine matter i disagree - there aren't enough engines ingame to go with isp and size. I don't want to stretch the engines further to avoid empty nodes. In the first revision of the tree i thought about this problem and i've decided to go with size and thrust power.

@Thorbane

I left the KSPI matter for V16. I already know how to handle this matter but it's not a quickfix like i thought at first.

@B4rberblacksheep

Both mod are supported now.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Arachnidek

[Austinator48]

"Well V15 is released"

@Austinator48

XT Landertrons - done.

It's quite a simple process really. I place them by hand There is a specific syntax you have to follow with the techmanager mod and that's it.

To see how it will look inside the game i've created an excel sheet with a grid and coordinates to represent how will they appear ingame (see the first post - imgur gallery last picture). The green parts are nodes with rp cost and the yellow are visualizations of where more or less the paths are going to be in the tech tree look (to make them look clean and not overlap). The orange bits represent when a node is going to have more than one parent.

After that it's basicly a lot of copying and typing. For example a single node from the tech tree:

    NODE
    {
        name = node5_basicreactionwheels   - this is my node name and how the techmanager will see it (for the node parents section)
        techID = largeControl                      - this is how the ksp game will see the node (this one is different than the name and has a stock node name to fool the stock contract generator so it won't break)
        pos = -1950,1500,-1                       - position within the tech tree (i get the coordinates from the excel sheet i've created - the last number should always be -1)
        icon = ADVFLIGHTCONTROL              - icon name 
        cost = 75                                      - rp cost
        title = Basic Reaction Wheels            - this is the name of the node the player will see ingame
        description = Placeholder.                - and it's description seen ingame
        anyParent = False                           - if set to true when a node has 2 or more parents you just need to research one of them to be able to research this node - if set to false you need to research all of the parents
        hideIfEmpty = False                        - if set to true when a player hasn't got a mod installed with parts connected to that node it won't show ingame for that player
        parents = node4_stability,node4_basicelectronics     - parents of this node (the game will connect the lines seen ingame by itself when correctly provided with the parent nodes)
        PARTS                                          - a list of parts for every node 
        {
        name = NP.sas.25m
        name = B9.Cockpit.MK1.Control.SAS
        name = asasmodule1-2
        name = FSapacheNoseASAS
        name = fsgyroscope
        name = 1x1SAS        
        name = Kosmos.VA.RRV.ASAS
        name = tele.gru2
        name = advSascr3

        }
    }

And basicly it's copying and pasting and changing every node by hand to create new ones.

I also use the Tech Tree Editor but it's only good to get a list of parts to use with the tree. It's worthless for anything else - the coordinates are totally wrong, part names are pasted with _ instead of . so the parts are unrecognized in the tech tree(that's techmanagers fault but you need it to load the tech tree) and every time you load a tech tree to the editor it loses node parents and coordinates (you can't save a tree correctly).

I found out how already but thanks for the reply. Apparently my being able to code HTML CSS didn't help with justing look at the screen and reading "pos" Nice knowing what anyparent does though, was trying to figure it out.

Again with this version it is recommended to start a new game and not using it for older saves.

Are saying that I have to do all the work myself if I want it on my old save? *sigh

Edited March 14, 2015 by Austinator48
typo

[B4rberblacksheep]

Woo look forwards to trying it out!

Austinator that's now my favourite gif ever.

[Errol]

Arachnidek - The OP in this thread still lists built in 3km omni antennas for probes as a known bug not working.

EDIT: Also, current USI MKS/OKS version is 22.8 for release and 22.9 for dev

Edited March 15, 2015 by Errol