KCS SpacePlanes Craft Repository

[kcs123]

Recreations of my craft from V0.25 SSTO contest thread: SSTO Spaceplane Airplane Design Contest II Akademy Awards and probably some new crafts too

I want to use this post to promote some of my favorite mods, like FAR, B9, KW Rocketry, IR parts, Procedural wings and some that I found recently like Adjustable landing gears and Advanced Jet Engines.

When I need to ask someone about something in other threads it is easier to pinpoint them to this post, so they can see pictures and even download a craft file to see what I was talking about.

Unhide spoiler to reveal links for old KSP version craft files from V0.90 to V1.0.2.

Spoiler

Sporty Mk1 V0.90 - craft file

Not exactly a space plane, but it is good stable small plane, it can help you to train your skills and Kerbal pilots as well. All stock parts.

Parts count: 31; Cost: 19,193.00

Sporty Mk1 V1.00 - craft file

10.05.2015 - Rebuilded for KSP 1.0.x. with some minor changes. Replaced turbo jet engines with basic jet engines, used stock raised tail instead straight variant, small angle adjustment on tail surfaces so you can obtain level flight even without any SAS.

Pretty much stable plane, tested with nuFAR.

New nuFAR transonic graph shows flaws of design, so it is not useful for supersonic flights, but plane is still good example to understand out what that new graph shows and meaning of new feature. Craft is still fun to fly around with it at subsonic speeds and good for pilot training so it deserves to be recreated for KSP 1.0

SpacePlane Mk2 B9PW V0.90 - craft files (08.02.2015 updated with no lights variant) .Parts count: 98; Cost: 103,104.00

Requires mods: B9 , B9 Procedural Wings, Adjustable landing gears

Tested with 32.25t payload to orbit. Stable all the way, it is almost boring to fly it. Full loaded takeoff @120m/s, empty will require even lower speeds.

SpacePlane Mk2 B9PW V1.00 - Rebuilded this craft in similar shape, although some changes are made due to new aera ruling. Made for stability in mind, controlable at all altitudes and nearly perfectly aligned thrust for space maneuvers. Only required mod is B9 Procedural wings. Hopefully pictures coming soon.

SpacePlane S3 B9PW V0.90 - craft files(latest, more optimized and from test flight in galery, 08.02.2015 updated with no lights variant). Parts count: 154; Cost: 406,493.00

Requires mods: B9 , B9 Procedural Wings, Adjustable landing gears

Test payload: 367,4t - senior dock port and 24 x 15.3 Kibbal to orbit. Galery from test flight is in other post below.

SETIctt Science planes V1.00 - craft files

There is three variations of same craft. All of them use only 30 parts - maximum allowed for Level one SPH.

Those are build from early available parts in career mode, based on SETIctt mod. You will also need DMagic orbital science mod for all those nice scientific stuff. Click on image for gallery.

SETIctt KAX Heli V1.00 - craft files

Contains few variations of same craft. Meant to be used with SETIctt mod, DMagic orbital science, SCANsat and KAX.

There is empty variant that does not contain any scientific stuff inside service bay, allowing easier customization.

"KAX Heli" craft is tested and fly stable, while "KAX Heli 2" cause strange camera bug, described in SETIctt mod thread. To make this craft more functional, I altered KAX rotor configuration files, as described in KAX thread.

SETIctt Early rockets V1.00 - craft files

Two versions of simple rocket, used to put satellite in orbit around Kerbin and Mun. Both used for FAR and for level II launch pad/VAB. Besides FAR, mods used: SETIctt mod, DMagic orbital science, SCANsat. What is purpose of satellite in orbit without any scientific instruments anyway ? Gallery.

 

SETIctt Mk1 High Altitude and space plane - craft files

One craft is designed for those high altitude measurements above 18 km. Two basic jet engines are needed due to high ISP, so you can travel across globe with small fuel requirements. When you are near spot, activate turbojet to reach high altitude and shut down basic engines. When you complete measurements, switch to basic jets only to save fuel. Gallery.

Another gallery for SETIctt Mk1 Space Plane.

 

SETIctt Rescue drones - craft files

Two variants of same concept. First cheaper variant that could be used earlier trough tech tree in career mode. Second one use more advanced parts, like dock port, B9 Procedural Wings and Adjustable Landing Gear. Both craft uses USI MKS/OKS life support system.

Those crafts are successfully used trough career saving stranded Kerbals from Kerbin, Mun and Minimus orbits. Although it is not SSTO it is quite good system for early career, you can save most important parts and land drone safely to runway. Plenty of dV available for most demanding randevous tasks.

Drones are also capable to take off from runway with only one small engine used. Stable in flight, reentry and most important on landing. Earned a lot of kerbobucks with those, not to mention valuable Kerbonauts with much higher courage and lower stupidity than available to hire on the ground.

 

KSP V1.0.5. craft files moved to spoiler section. All craft files are available in one archive - Download craft files.

Spoiler

Sporty Tailless Mk1 V105 - small aircraft with only one turbojet engine - developed as study how to create stable plane without conventional tail.
Tailless craft is often much harder to control, but it is possible to create such aircraft, that is not only controllable, but also have low transonic drag.

SpacePlane Mk2 B9PW V105 - 40t less weight than similar previous versions of craft. Cargo bay is created with 2 Mk2 large cargo bays next to each other offering plenty of space for all kind of space probes. Tested to orbit with 7,5t payload with plenty of dV left once stable orbit is established.
It can probably lift even more weight without much issues, but not insane weight payload as I did in past.

SpacePlane S3 B9PW V105 - recreation of similar sized craft, but this time I have optimized craft for less weighted payload. You still can put two orange tanks in cargo with weight of "only" 72t (compared to 367,4t in previous version) an plane can lift it in space without issues. In practice you will probably not going to need more weight than that. That decision allowed me to create less weighted craft, with much less wing surface area, less engines needed and much less drag because of it. Despite it's size craft have really low drag due to respect of FAR transonic area ruling.

Rescue drone III and Rescue drone VI - Recreated crafts from KSP1.0.2. without launchers, though, I will add versions with launchers later, I just made some small adjustment on planes due to changes in Mk1 cockpit model for KSP 1.0.5

 

Electric KAX Cargo Mk3 V105
I have underestimated power of electrical engines as it have low thrust of only 16kN. I was wrong. Just add more engines and you are good to lift 22t of payload and recharge batteries at the same time if you have good angle towards sun.
If you have landed and sun does not hit solar panels directly there is also panels that track down sunlight, to speed up charging if needed. Have a low takeoff and landing speeds if you keep payload at reasonable weight.

 

Electrical KAX SeaPlane Mk1
Water and electricity is not always good combination. But Kerbals figured out that it is good combination for small SeaPlane.
When battery charge is consumed, mass remains the same. Without mass change, craft will always have same behaviour at given altitude and spped. Craft is capable to land on runway or sea - your choice. For landing on sea, use all flaps, set pitch angle around 5 degree and slow down craft to ~60 m/s for touch down.
On touchdown at sea, don't use brakes ! Instead of using breaks, leave flaps deployed and pitch up slightly. Try to keep pitching angle between 5-10 degree until craft is slowed down enough.

 

KAX - kOS Heli
My first attempt to mess with kOS autopilot scripts. Neither of other mods that deals with hovering didn't worked well enough for me, so I created my own hover assistant. Problem with KAX rotor engine is that it have rather slow response to throttle. Even slower response than jet engine. So, I have created script based on PID controller. I have used published kOS library for PID controller and also library for navball data. Both are also available on kOS github, but everything required is included in download file.

For people that were not familiar with kOS, click on picture to see full album, serving as small tutorial.
There is also info about most important things in craft file description.

You will need to copy script folder in "..\KerbalSpaceProgram\Ships\" folder. Once you start script, you can close terminal and keep it running in background so you can enjoy in flight.

 

Long Range J33-J20 VTOL

Long distance field research doesn't have to be tedious with right craft design. Small craft that have a lot of fuel in tanks might not be able to take off fully loaded, but once you reach distant spot, fuel will be consumed and you will be able to take off vertically too. Might not look on the first sight, but craft actually have quite low drag. Such low drag allows supersonic velocity over 1 mach with single J33 engine that was originally not even designed for supersonic flights. For that reason you can't fly long on high speeds due to overheating, but 0.80 or 0.90 mach can be sustained for longer times. Stable craft design also allow maximum time acceleration without issues. That makes this craft a good choice for science exploration early in career. Because it is early trough SETIctt career, front landing gear might look odd compared to light adjustable landing gears but serve purpose well enough.

You can find all installed mods in spoiler section, just in case I forgot to mention something that is needed. Some of those are updated since list are made.

Spoiler

Adjustable Landing Gear (AdjustableLandingGear v1.2.0)
B9 Aerospace Pack (B9 R5.4.0)
B9 Aerospace Pack (B9-props R5.4.0)
B9 Aerospace Procedural Parts - Fork (B9-PWings-Fork 2.1)
B9 Animation Modules (B9AnimationModules v1.0.0)
BahamutoD Animation Modules (BDAnimationModules v0.6.2)
CapCom - Mission Control On The Go (CapCom 1.4)
Community Resource Pack (CommunityResourcePack 0.4.8.0)
Community Tech Tree (CommunityTechTree 2.3)
Contract Configurator (ContractConfigurator 1.9.3.1)
Contract Pack: Bases and Stations (ContractConfigurator-KerbinSpaceStation 1:3.1)
Contract Pack: Field Research (ContractConfigurator-FieldResearch 1.1.4)
Contract Pack: Giving Aircraft a Purpose (GAP) (GAP 1.0.2.1)
Contract Pack: Tourism Plus (ContractConfigurator-Tourism 1.3.0)
Contract Window + (ContractsWindowPlus 5.5)
Crossfeed Enabler (CrossFeedEnabler v3.3)
Crowd Sourced Science (CrowdSourcedScience v3.0.2)
Custom Barn Kit (CustomBarnKit 1.1.3.0)
DMagic Orbital Science (DMagicOrbitalScience 1.1)
Docking Port Alignment Indicator (DockingPortAlignmentIndicator 6.2)
EVAManager (EVAManager 6)
Final Frontier (FinalFrontier 0.9.8-1882)
Firespitter Core (FirespitterCore v7.1.5)
Firespitter Resources config (FirespitterResourcesConfig v7.1.5)
Graphic Memory Monitor (GCMonitor 1.3.0.0)
HyperEdit (HyperEdit 1.4.2.0)
Kerbal Aircraft Expansion (KAX) (KerbalAircraftExpansion 1:KAX_v2.6.1.0)
Kerbal Alarm Clock (KerbalAlarmClock v3.5.0.0)
Kerbal Attachment System (KAS 0.5.5)
Kerbal Flight Data (KerbalFlightData R19)
Kerbal Inventory System (KIS 1.2.3)
Kerbal Joint Reinforcement (KerbalJointReinforcement v3.1.4)
Klockheed Martian General Plugin Functions - Gimbal module (KlockheedMartian-Gimbal 3.0.6.0)
kOS: Scriptable Autopilot System (kOS 0.18.2)
KSP AVC (KSP-AVC 1.1.5.0)
LightsOut (LightsOut v0.1.5)
Magic Smoke Industries Infernal Robotics (InfernalRobotics v0.21.4)
MechJeb 2 (MechJeb2 2.5.5.0)
MechJeb and Engineer for all! (MechJebForAll 1.2.0.0)
MechJeb Modules for FAR (MechJebFARExt 1.0.0)
Menu Stabilizer (MenuStabilizer 1)
ModularFlightIntegrator (ModularFlightIntegrator 1.1.2.0)
Module Manager (ModuleManager 2.6.17)
OSE Workshop (Workshop 0.12.1)
Precise Node (PreciseNode 1.2.1)
QuickScroll (QuickScroll v1.32)
QuickSearch (QuickSearch v1.14)
RasterPropMonitor (RasterPropMonitor v0.24.2.1)
RasterPropMonitor Core (RasterPropMonitor-Core v0.24.2.1)
RCS Build Aid (RCSBuildAid 0.7.6)
SCANsat (SCANsat v14.7)
Sequencer for Infernal Robotics (InfernalRobotics-Sequencer 0.6)
SETI-BalanceMod (SETI-BalanceMod 0.9.5.2)
SETI-CommunityTechTree (SETI-CommunityTechTree 0.9.5.1)
SETI-Contracts (SETI-Contracts 0.9.4)
SETI-Greenhouse (SETI-Greenhouse 0.9.3)
Ship Manifest (ShipManifest 4.4.2.0)
SmokeScreen - Extended FX Plugin (SmokeScreen 2.6.10.0)
StageRecovery (StageRecovery 1.6.2)
Stock Bug Fix Modules & StockPlus (StockBugFixPlus v1.0.5a.3)
Take Command (TakeCommand 1.3)
Throttle Controlled Avionics - Continued (ThrottleControlledAvionics 2.3.0.2)
ToadicusTools (ToadicusTools 17)
Toolbar (Toolbar 1.7.10)
Transfer Window Planner (TransferWindowPlanner v1.4.0.0)
TweakableEverything (TweakableEverything 1.14)
TweakScale - Rescale Everything! (TweakScale v2.2.6)
USI Core (USI-Core 0.1.2.0)
USI Kolonization Systems (MKS/OKS) (UKS 1:0.31.12.0)
USI Life Support (USI-LS 0.2.1.0)
USI Tools (USITools 0.5.4.0)
Waypoint Manager (WaypointManager 2.4.4)

 

KSP 1.1.2 Craft files - All craft files are available in one archive trough download link. Pictures and descriptions moved to spoiler.

Spoiler

Album of first few aircrafts made for KSP 1.1.2.

Some more crafts were added to archive. Similar, but different design aproach on each craft. Kind of evolution in designs when some of design flaws were exposed trough test flights.
Mostly small jet planes. But don't underestimate them. Even single engine J-20 "Juno" plane can fly at supersonic speeds. Try it.

Updated craft archive with few more planes. Some nice jet fighters with foldable wings, including IR assembly for quick creation of your own craft.
Also contains three new SSTO aircrafts. S3 SSTO have slightly less payload capability of ~60t, but have two SABRE-S engines less too reducing overall craft weight by significante amount. While weight less it is more easy and practical to use.

 

KSP 1.2.2. Craft files. All crafts are available in one archive trough download link.

Some picture will be added later

 

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by kcs123
download link for ksp 1.2.2. crafts

[blowfish]

Keep in mind that FAR takes wing sweep and shock drag into account, so having such wide, straight wings on an SSTO is probably costing you a lot of fuel to drag at supersonic speeds.

[kcs123]

 

I need a plane that is easy to control, have to be cheap as possible to build, have to be simple to build, have to lift a lot of payload as possible to establish orbit and have to be easy adapted for various orbital tasks:

- Deploy / recover space probes

- orbital rescue missions

- passenger transport to space stations and delivery/recover various cargo to and from space stations in one trip

On top of that, have to be most fuel efficient craft, because I'm lousy pilot and need a lot of DeltaV to compensate my mistakes.

I have lot of issues in my airplane designs with take off and landing procedures, so aircraft have to be easy to control when you take off without gear woobling on runway. Also it is not so easy to safely land airplane in KSP. For safe landing I need a plane that is easy to control on low speeds, so I have more time to correct mistakes in runway aproach and for more gentle landing without killing poor Kerbals.

When I'm returning from orbit, I want to left most of unused fuel at space station so, SSTO need to be easy to control glider without help of engine trust.

Most of above plane share the same idea, only difference is size and type of payload. S3 was designed with larger volume payload for space station assembly, while MK2 based planes are mostly for probe deployment and small cargo orbital station resuply missions.

Impossible to achieve ? Well, download craft and check for yourself. More info why such unusuall design coming soon in section below.
Unhide spoiler below to find more info about design process.

Spoiler

1.) First, I have created main plane hull with cargo space for payload and fuel tanks with possible engine mounts. To be usable in space, plane need to have alligned engine trust with CoM. I wanted to have some extra space for fuel, to have some aditional dV when I reach orbit for various tasks, so that extra fuel also adds some extra weight.

2.) Next I have created main wing shape that provide a lot L/D ratio without adding too much on craft weight. After that comes position of control surfaces on wings and tail. But, before fine tuning control surfaces, I have positioned landing gears.

3.) To have more stable craft on taking off and landing I have positioned landing gears to have negative AoA on ruway. In that way all main wing surface area is used like spoiler on cars to provide some downforce and help with bouncing unstability when plane still doesn't have enough speed for safe take off.

Problem with that aproach is that extra downforce along with heavy payload could be too much for wheels. To solve this, I have used flaps.

Flaps itself doesn't produce much more lift, but they produce drag in widest wing area on rear and in that way overall lifting center is shifted more to front.

You can see that well on picture below. By doing this, I have produced positive lift even when plane have negative pitch.

4.) I'm using control surfaces on tail to produce some small downforce. That small downforce along with well placed rear landing gear makes leverage and fulcrum. So only light push on tail is needed to pitch nose up. In flight there is no landing gear that could be used as fulcrum, but if you remove control surfaces on tail, you will see that lift from main wing is almost on the same spot as rear landing gears. So, lift from main wing could be considered as fulcrum when the plane is in air. When plane pitch up too much main wing will going to stall and provide less lift and weight placed in front will push nose down again. If it's pitch down too much, downforce on tail will couse nose to pitch up again.

5.) Cm on FAR graph is not CoM. Cm is summ of all lifting and downforces from both, wings and craft weight. On graph, if it is above X axis it will make a plane to pitch up, if it is below it will couse a nose to pitch down. This depends on overall plane AoA and degree where yelow line cross X axis is naturaly stable AoA pitching moment. Unlike other people advices, by placing control surfaces on tail I have shifted that neutral pitching moment in area where aircraft have a lot L/D ratio. It is usualy somwhere between 4 and 10 AoA degree, depends of main wing shape, overall plane weight and probably lot of other factors.

With that aproach, you will need less input from pilot to maintain optimal AoA while you are chasing altitude and speed needed to reach orbit.

6.) How to have more green over the red numbers on FAR graph. I have cured rolling unstability by placing CoL above CoM. There is several ways to do that.

One is to make main wings slightly angled, so the tip of wing is raised compared to wing root. Another aproach is to place small vertical wingtips surfaces on tip of main wings, or you can place some raised surfaces on tail.

Sideslip problem can be solved with more vertical surfaces, more effective on tail then on hull center, but wingtips could also help with that.

Pitching problem could be solved with both, larger horisontal surfaces on tail or near front, but with different AoA.

Because of shifted neutral Cm in optimal AoA area, SAS will not going to couse your plane to wooble so much, but if still does smaller control differences helps with that.

I'm not saying that this is best aproach with plane design, but this is how I was able to figure out. I'm rather using lifting forces to help reaching orbit, rather then using brute engine thrust forces.

 

Link to original post from Spaceplane Design Contest thread. Unhide spoiler for more info how to improve L/D ratio.

Spoiler

@Rakaydos, you should not be sad if your plane didn't fullfill peoples expectations. Try designs from others, see how they solved problems, learn from them, use best from each design and then create your own. But before you start to build craft, you should ask yourself for what purpose you are going to build it. Does it have to be light fighter/bomber plane or heavy lifter, or some kind jack of all trades ?

Hodo has explained one part of your question close enough. Thing that I wish to add is that is not more important wing lift or drag. Thing that matters is Lift/Drag ratio. There is two ways how to improve L/D ratio. One way to do it is to increase wing surface that provide more lift. Less obvious way is to reduce drag, that is what Hodo talk about. Small reduction to drag can have more influence on L/D ratio then higher lift, especially on high altitudes/supersonic speeds.

There is still cases when you will want large surface wings.On low altitudes large wing surface is great helper when you need to take off. You will need less thrust from engines to be able to takeoff and you can takeoff at lower speeds. You will notice most benefit from high wing spans on subsonic speeds and low altitudes.

When you reach higher altitude you will have little benefit from lift because atmosphere is more rare and does not provide enough preasure difference to provide lift. From my test flights in this game it is somewhere between 8 to 12 km. It vary from plane to plane and carried payload. When you reach critical spot when you can't climb up on subsonic speeds, you need to accelerate to supersonic speed. When you do that and pass safely trough transition area, lift from wings in best cases is halved, more often it is 1/10 of lift on low altitude/subsonic speed.

At high altitudes/supersonic speeds, if you create craft with low drag, you will still have good L/D ratio that will help your plane to climb up. Because of supersonic/high altitude problems, there is two main ways to deal with it. One design aproach is to have little to non wing at all. Since they don't provide much lift, those are only unwanted weight and drag and most of time it was only used to help you with pointing nose in desired direction and nothing more. Wanderfound Kerbodyne fleet is good example of that kind of design, he mastered that aproach almost to perfection. However, there is limit to that design aproach - limit is engine TWR that still need to be above 1 or close to 1 to be able to reach orbit, also due to that limit planes like that can't carry much of payload.

Other design aproach is to use wing surface area to help you with climbing up your plane instead of raw power from engines. That is more demanding and not easy to understand design aproach. You need to experiment a lot until you find good wing shape and surface that will help you with lifting and don't add much drag and weight to craft. If you have larger wing surfaces on craft, you will want to use benefit from wing lift all times, not just to point craft nose to desired direction. One way to accomplish that is to make sure that your plane have positive L/D ratio at 0 degree of AoA, in case that your plane have neutral piching moment placed in center of FAR graph. Another, and I think more efficient way is to "place" neutral piching moment in positive AoA, where wings produce most of L/D ratio. On most craft designs it is somwhere between 4 and 8 AoA degree.

On Manticore plane it is in negative AoA area. Check FAR static analysis graph for -25 to +25 AoA degree, not only 0 to +25. Also check it for speeds 0.2 and 0.35 when you need to takeoff / land your plane and critical speeds like 0.7; 1.4; 2; 4; 6 mach.

What I mean when I talk about "neutral pitch moment" is shown on picture below.

Picture with sumed up described design info.

Galery with FAR building tutorial. More closely described above picture

 

There was demand for more info how to use flaps. This info is also posted in official craft repository thread, but I will repeat it also here, to have all in one place.

I never found flaps useless, regardless of wing shape, is it delta, straight or swept wing. You need to set other control surfaces properly to counterpart negative pitching down effect from flaps. I have used slats only on some heavy weight crafts where flaps were not enough because of overall craft weight, just to lower down pitching momentum, so craft can be easier to control.

I found pitching down effect from flaps quite usefull. Designs with slightly tilted down nose worked best for me on take off landing procedures, less likely that craft will bounce during takeoff or steer left and right without control.

 

 

This is example that is still possible to create large planes with smooth cross section derivate. You just need to carefully design plane, so cross section area is gently increasing from nose to middle of plane and again to slowly narrow down from the largest point(length point) of cross section area to the last point of plane length. This plane starts with smooth cockpipt, at cockpit largest cross section area first ait intakes starts folowed by another air intakes slightly back. When hull with air intakes are formed (Mk2 bicouple) swept wing starts. In area where engines cross section area ends huge tail starts, smoothing out big changes in cross section area. This big tail is not without purpose, it is used at high altitudes for yaw/sideslip stabilization and for smoothing yelow line at same time.

 

Common question is how to reduce "sawfish effect" of plane, to wobble as less as possible with SAS turned on. There is several mods that attempts to improve this behaviour.
But first step in wobble reduction is in creation of stable craft. When craft start to loose pitching, SAS increase pitching trough control surfaces and engine gimbals. When you set neutral pitching moment in high AoA area (most often mistake), craft will loose lift by large amount. When graph blue line start to drop rapidly, that is AoA when stall starts. Small thin lines tells how craft will behave when fall back to lower AoA until craft is controllable again. Thanks to Tetryds on clarification about stall effect and how it is represented trough FAR graphs.

Craft on picture can have 23 degree of AoA before stall starts, however it is not wise to set neutral pitching moment at AoA just little lower than 23 AoA.
For several reasons. FAR graph shows only pitching momentum from craft hull wings and control surfaces, you need to consider also momentum from engine gimbals and also momentum of inertia from previous craft movement. Those forces could push craft in AoA that is larger than it is shown in graph and that little extra can push craft in stall AoA area.

Also if you choose large AoA where drag is significant, despite high L/D ratio, craft will start to loose speed. With speed loss, craft will also loose lift, this is more important at high speeds and high altitudes where small changes in lift can cause significant height loss where drag is even higher and cause even more drag forces. Or even worse scenario, craft can be disintegrated due to overheating.
This is more important in creating of spaceplanes than it is if you try to build fighter. For fighter planes, rapid loss of speed and high AoA is desirable to achieve high maneuverability, but is not SAS friendly and something you want from spaceplane.

Picture shows only graph for low speed. This craft have similar L/D line for 2/3/4 mach, so those graphs were not shown, but don't foreget to check those too when you build spaceplane.

 

 

Those planes will not going to fullfill everyones expectations. Designed to be efficient and stable but for that reason they were not higly maneuverable. For that reason a lot of people that expect fighter plane performance will be disapointed.

But if you consider them more like a heavy truck then a sports car, you will like them more.
As I build those and test them I also learn more and finding out design flaws and what I could possibly improve.

Mk2 V8 is more optimized then other planes because I spend more time building it then other crafts, also my first SSTO for 0.25 KSP.
After Mk2 V8, I was wondering will the same aproach work for bigger SSTO, for heavier payload. So, I build other crafts based on the same concept.

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by kcs123
removed broken imgur albums

[kcs123]

SpacePlane Mk2 B9PW - trip to orbit with heavy payload - You can see optimal ascending path/speeds in galery.

 

SpacePlane S3 B9 B9PW - test flight

to orbit with 367.4t of payload.

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by kcs123
fixing broken albums

[kcs123]

My answer to blowfishs post moved here. I edited above for easier maintenance of thread in future.

No, it does not if you fly it properly.

Finally image album shows properly in my posts. You can see now on pictures L/D ratio all times. FAR flight data opened all times so wing span is optimal for this plane and payload.

B9 Procedural wings can contain fuel, so it is additional bonus to have big wet wings

Anyway, craft file is available for anyone to try it.

Also updated OP with new/old craft file for v0.90

[Nowater]

Cant Load the Spaceplanes. There are Light parts missing in B9. They are not anymore in the B9. They was just in older B9 packs, but i dont know which one of them

B9.Utility.Light.A1.closed

B9.Utility.Light.N1.White

B9.Utility.N1.Large.White

Do you have craft files without this parts?

[kcs123]

Cant Load the Spaceplanes. There are Light parts missing in B9. They are not anymore in the B9. They was just in older B9 packs, but i dont know which one of them

B9.Utility.Light.A1.closed

B9.Utility.Light.N1.White

B9.Utility.N1.Large.White

Do you have craft files without this parts?

Those are standard parts from B9 Aerospace mod.

I have installed B9 trough CKAN and those parts should be there. Folder "..\B9_Aerospace\Parts\Utility_light_A" and "..\B9_Aerospace\Parts\Utility_light_N"

I have deleted HX parts and old aerodynamic surfaces manualy to make some room for other mods.

Please note that new B9 Procedural parts is another mod still in development that you need for those planes.

I don't have craft files without those parts, but I can strip off them from planes and add them inside zip file as separate addition. I will note it here when I update archives.

[kcs123]

Updated craft files with no lights variants. Download link is same, redownload files if you need them.

[Nowater]

Thank you

[kcs123]

Just tested crafts in OP, all of them works just fine with new FAR version 0.14.7.

I wanted to put few more craft files in this thread, but I'm busy for a while, helping some other comunity with some other mod for compleatly different game. I hope that I will be able to update this with some more craft examples.

[Hodo]

KCS123,

I love your album explaining your design process it is really well laid out and worded. If I may throw some suggestions out there to see if I can help your future designs be a bit more efficient.

In all of my designs I can achieve take off or landing around 70-90m/s which is a fair bit slower than your 120m/s on your craft. The way I have found to to do this is actually a larger wing area and a different shape to the wing. I have become a fan of deltawing designs but found they have some flaws in other areas like higher landing and take-off speeds. So I use a hybrid wing design like the Russian Su-17 Fitter and the US F-15 Eagle. They have a larger wing root which generates bulk of the lift at supersonic speeds and a smaller wing tip which is where a great deal of the lift is generated at lower speeds. Like this...

A larger hybrid design wing.

And an almost complete rip-off of the Su-17 wing....

As you can see the take off speed is low on most of the wing designs I have found to use...

On a side note if I could get B9-Procedural wings to work with my install I would be happy but unfortunately I cant, so no fuel in the wings for me.

[kcs123]

Thanks Hodo for suggestions. I'm realy sorry that you can't use B9 procedural wings, don't have a clue what is different on your PC to have issues and what I have done different that works for me without problems. I wish that i can help you more on this.

In design process on album I choose 120 m/s as reference speed that is reasonable to achieve until end of runway and to choose wing span/shape properly with given speed/AoA. Not all people are comfortable with large wing surfaces for space planes, so someone may want to make other trade offs, less wings, more engine power and higher AoA on takeoff to achieve same results. That was just for example, sometimes I create crafts with higher takeoff speed with less wing surfaces and sometimes crafts with low takeoff speeds and large wing surfaces.

All of my craft examples are actually able to takeoff at 90 m/s or only slightly more, but with more reasonable payload. With heavy palyoad presented on album takeoff speed is higher, but inside reasonable limits. Once you deliver heavy payload in orbit and return to KSC with almost empty tanks, safe landing speeds are much closer to 80 m/s and once planes touched ground due to craft design with nose tilted down it is possible to quickly decelerate.

Nice fighterplanes, btw. Maybe I would create some of highly maneuverable fighterplane instead of those spacetrucks

[Hodo]

All of my craft examples are actually able to takeoff at 90 m/s or only slightly more, but with more reasonable payload. With heavy palyoad presented on album takeoff speed is higher, but inside reasonable limits. Once you deliver heavy payload in orbit and return to KSC with almost empty tanks, safe landing speeds are much closer to 80 m/s and once planes touched ground due to craft design with nose tilted down it is possible to quickly decelerate.

Nice fighterplanes, btw. Maybe I would create some of highly maneuverable fighterplane instead of those spacetrucks

Yeah I went from making space "trucks" as you said, to fighters about a year ago. And honestly it helped with my overall design process. I learned more from building high performance craft and transitioned it to my larger aircraft and now I like to say I no longer build space trucks but I build space planes. I think my best landing speed on the SP-410 when empty is actually less than 70m/s and it comes to a stop before a 1/4 of the runway passes. I can almost use no brakes at all and still come to a stop before the end of the runway. I learned from looking at wing designs on Migs and Northrop-Grumman aircraft that I found there are better wing designs and how they work at different speeds.

I remember watching a documentary on the Su-17 that just helped more than I can ever imagine. I learned about supersonic wing affects and subsonic lift on wings.

[kcs123]

Updated Sporty Mk1 craft for KSP 1.0.2 - link for craft file is in OP.

I come across with some strange memory leaking bug, so for other craft files I will need more time until bugs are ironed out and depending mods updated properly.

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by kcs123

[Hodo]

Updated Sporty Mk1 craft for KSP 1.0.2 - link for craft file is in OP.

I come across with some strange memory leaking bug, so for other craft files I will need more time until bugs are ironed out and depending mods updated properly.

http://imgur.com/a/cCRXD

I think it is a KSP bug, I have had it on my stock install with no mods. Something to do with the way the part heat display is worked out.

[Captain Sierra]

I think it is a KSP bug, I have had it on my stock install with no mods. Something to do with the way the part heat display is worked out.

Confirmed. Squad dun screwed it up and got a pretty bad memory leak in the method for the heat indicators. Unsure if its the glowy outline (which could also theoretically be induced by the outline used by staging) or the bar (I'm going to guess this is the case).

[kcs123]

Thanks folks, I found solution for this, I just didn't reported it here.

Fortunately DMagic made this temperature gauge killer as workaround for memory leak problem.

But I come across a new one. Fro some strange reason MechJeb2 and Kerbal Engineer shows different mass for craft compared to stock craft building info(craft length,width,mass,parts No. etc.) in right bottom corner of screen.

I think it is tied to FAR wing strength somehow, but I need to test it more until make report for that bug in FAR thread.

Also, there is bug with B9 procedural wings that produce memory leak in SPH editor and bug with colision boxes on Adjustable landing gears. I'm waiting on those mods to be updated before I make official update for my crafts.

[Yemo]

Some really helpful designs and information in here.

I especially like the FAR explanations of the curves!

[kcs123]

Thanks Yemo for support, I just uploaded few more examples how to use planes along with SETIctt career.

I enjoy what I have seen so far trough early career and looking forward for next update when KSP 1.0.3 comes out.

[Fizwalker]

Have you gotten P-Wings to work with 1.0.2?

[kcs123]

B9 Procedural Wings works in 1.0.2.

You need original files of B9PW from 0.90 and then apply patch for 1.0.2. You can find link for patch in Crzyrndm signature. All instruction for it is also in his post.

[kcs123]

I just added new info for FAR graph/design craft tutorial and some craft files for KSP 1.0.5.
I will try to provide more info about provided crafts as soon as possible, but those picture editing was taken too much time than excpected, so I will have to postopne it.

[kcs123]

I have informed that people missed info about kOS scripts I created recently. There is a lot of folks that are unfamiliar with programming and find kOS to have steep learning curve. I also still learning how to do things in kOS, but I wanted to share this small script as many of KAX mod user didn't find proper supportive mod to improve hovering abilities of helicopters and VTOLs based on low throttle response engines like jets.

For players that didn't use kOS much here is small info.
You will need to copy script folder in "..\KerbalSpaceProgram\Ships\" folder. Once you start script, you can close terminal and keep it running in background so you can enjoy in flight. There is two kOS scripts packed along with craft files. You can find download link in OP.

First script is used for hovering purposes on single kuey rotor engine from KAX, but can be easy adjusted for other craft designs too.
I also wrote down some comments inside scripts, so you can figure out more quickly how it works. You might want to delete those comments if you intend to copy script in local craft file kOS CPU to save up some space. Here is small album that describes everything you need to know to start using kOS script without need for much knowlage of programming.

What is so different from other hovering scripts around ?

Well, most of other scripts and mods based on PID controller use zero and maximum engine throttle. That is not good on low throttle response engines like kuey heli rotor or jet engines. On 0 to 100% throttle range craft might response too quickly fliping over VTOL craft that were not smooth enough for high vertical velocities. My hovering script calculate minimum and maximum trottle all time, so minimum throttle is set for 0.85 TWR and maximum throttle is set for 1.2 TWR. For that reason hovering script is smooth in steady state at desired altitude.

kOS PID library allows just that - to set desired minimum and maximum values. Also it does not have to be throttle based, you can use any value for input. I have even combined two PID controllers in hover script. Main PID controler use throttle and vertical velocity setpoint, while second PID controller use vertical velocity and altitude above ground, so it change vertical velocity setpoint of first controller to adjust exact hovering altitude.

Someone might find whole PID controller thing confusing, those equations and graph might be too much to diggest. But don't be afraid, you don't need to know everything about it to be able to use it. kOS wikipedia have a lot good info about it too. With some trial and error you will find "good" PID values for each craft design, but here is quick info without going trough each detail of provided tutorials.

You may need fine tune Kp,Ki,Kd for each craft individualy. Quick rude info:
Kp - influence how fast PID will react on input and amplitude of overshoot
Ki - influence how many oscilations will be before coming to steady state
Kd - influence of smoothness of PID control value curve from initial input to steady state

For more details open script file and read comments inside. I have updated hovering script from first time I published it. There is some safety checks when craft is close to ground, so if you decent with -10 m/s and comes close to ground, script will override that and set -5 m/s as velocity setpoint, or -1 m/s when you are much closer to the ground.

Almost forgot another major difference from other kOS scripts already provided by various players. Unlike other scripts around (even kOS tutorial suggest it) that locks throttle at desired value and does not allow pilot input, this one set raw pilot throttle instead. Meaning, pilot will still be able to change throttle value from value set by autopilot. That could be usefull if you are in close proximity to the ground and figure out that autopilot does not response quick enough. In such situations, you can override trottle settings by taping "Z" or "X" keys for maximum or zero throttle.
That is usually enough to pull craft out of dangerous situation.

 

With knowlage gained trough creating hovering script, I have also published pow_land script. I will provide more info about it soon in another post, to make things more readable.

Edited December 22, 2016 by kcs123
fixing broken albums

[kcs123]

Just added few WIP craft files for KSP 1.1.2. Link for downlaod is in OP.

 

Here is some screenshots from test flights.

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by kcs123
fixing broken albums

[kcs123]

I have tried to create aircraft with variable geometry wing. First goal is to create IR swing assembly that can be re-used on various designs as needed.
Not very best aircraft that I ever created, but whole idea works quite well. @varsass have inspired me to do similar system as he showed in this post.

Here is small story trough imgur album, if you want to know more about it.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by kcs123
fixing broken albums