MoridinUK's Space Program help thread.

[MoridinUK]

Introduction: The sorry state of my Space Program

Chapter 1: Training Flight 201

Chapter 2: A Rover and the Mun gets even messier

Chapter 3: The Sun Station

Chapter 4: The sorry end of a rover

Chapter 5: A good day at the KSP?

Chapter 6: Mun Mess Clean up stage 2

Chapter 7: We hate Mun, Minmus, Minmus will be our karbonite fuel processing place...

Chapter 8: Working hard to overcome mistakes and awful awful design...

Chapter 9: We're on a Mission from Kod (Putting the band back together)

Chapter 10: It was all a bad dream right....

Chapter 11: Another sader day.

Chapter 12: Bring them all home

Chapter 13: A Lot of Clearing Up To Do!

Chapter 14: Always so many chores

Chapter 15: A slow week at the Moridin Space Centre

Hi there..

So this is my Space Program thread! Here I want to post about my current game and ask questions if I need help, rather than open a new thread every time.

Is that a bad idea? Or should I just open threads in the question forums as they arise?

I kinda want to blog my space program and also ask for help when I'm stuck. However I'm quite a ways in already!

Is this an Idea or would it be better to wait for release 1.0 and start a blog from scratch?

My current question is which is the best way to add struts to docked craft for interplanetary travel? I should probably list the mod's I'm using right?

Edited March 26, 2015 by MoridinUK

[Vanamonde]

This thread is not a bad idea, but it does need to be in the right place, which is Mission Reports. And so, it has been moved.

You want to add struts to something you've already assembled in space?

[Master Tao]

I know of three current options for adding struts in flight: Active Struts, Quantum Struts, and Kerbal Attachment System. Quantum Struts are infinitely strong, KAS struts are practically rubber bands, and Active Struts have varying strengths in between depending on how you attach them. If you install KAS, the parts for all three can be attached to your craft in flight; otherwise, QS and AS parts must be added in the editor.

[MoridinUK]

Ah yes, I want to reinforce docked parts for interplanetary travel... though if I use a low twr I doubt the docking ports wont be strong enough?

Thanks for putting this in the right place! I can blog away a bit now... My space program is in a mess... lol

I have KAS installed! I defo want struts that come undone again (but I guess with KAS and an engineer they can anyway right?)

[MoridinUK]

My Space Program is in a typical newbie mess. (Or so I am guessing)

I have a few probes in play, they are straight forward so not much to report, just enough to do a temp scan from space around Kerbin, Mun or Minmus should a contract arrise! They are dull.

I have 3 current manned flights.

The first is Training Flight 101, these guys have orbited Kerbin, and Mun, Landed on Minmus (one of them planted a flag I know realise they all needed too.... I think.. Sigh... Who put me in charge of a Space Program?) they are currently on an escape trajectory out of Kerbin SOI. They have what I think is a tonne of Delta V left in them, but I can't tell you cos the new update to Kerbal engineer wont tell me without putting the part on or an engineer in flight (but hold on I thought this one had an engineer in flight!!!)

The second is my Mun Mission Again, this is an aborted attempt to land Jeb on the Mun. He had been in it a long while! I was trying to sort my problems out and get him landed but I didn't think he had enough fuel for that, and get back, and he has no docking port so he too is on a trajectory out of Kerbin and has around 1600 Dv left to get him back. He wont leave SOI for 14 days...

Here is the real mess: The Mun in the tracking view, Yellow labeled ships go clockwise, Red either counter clockwise or polar...

Here is Space Station 1:

It is pretty basic, and has an engine! lol, but it also has a lab, which I thought meant I could bring eva samples back here and get the science, I didn't realise it meant I could only get a tiny fraction more science than if I just transmit.

Fuel tank is about 3/4 full.

Here is Lander the third manned or Kerballed mission:

It docks on the back of Space Station 1: (yes there orbits are both in the wrong direction! grr) It was supposed to drop to the surface, do some science, bring it back to the station, process it all there and rinse and repeat. However, in my effort to complete a contract I blew out most of my delta V worrying about being at the right height at the right place, hence why lander is in such an unuseful orbit. She has 300 Dv left in her.

This brings me to Mun Base 1.

This.. thing... i suspposed to be on the Mun already, it's designed to process Karbonite into liquid fuel, and meet my housing requirements for a Base Contract. It doesn't have enough DV left in it to land. This is because the KErbal Engineer worked out the DV remaining as though I had staged away the base below the fuel tank on top... *Doh*

So then there is the latest mess up: Tug v1.0

This guys fuel tank is full! But he doesn't burn very fast at all. He is currently set up to come into a 2.5 km Rendeuzvous with Lander in about a days time. If their Speeds allow I will try to dock Lander on to him to refuel. He will then try to rendavouz and dock with Mun Base 1 to refuel him, before burning back to LKO to be refuel and possibly have an extra couple of engines tagged on. His current dv reads at about 12000!! Woot.

I think that just about covers what is happening! I have a contract for some temp readings on Mun (Lander was supposed to do those on the next run) a contract to extract 550 karbonite from Mun, explore Duna, and a couple of others I forget right now.

All these messes of vessels are my first attempts so advice, or love, or better still both would be appreciated!

[MoridinUK]

So while waiting for my crazy Tug/lander rendezvous I decided to get my last 6 kerbals into training.

Here is Training Mission 201. It will take 6 Kerbals into Orbit, to Orbit Mun, and then to land on Minmus for them all to plant flags, leave Kerbin SoI for 5 mins (may make them all do a scary eva then lol) and back home...

In the VAB:

Asparagus Fuel tanks and boosters.. plenty of Delta V.

We got to orbit no problems, so started the burn for Mun after a quick trip around Kerbin..

Drop the last stage part way through burn:

All nice, until the LV-N overheats quicker than I could turn it down. Something blows up, but I've no idea what, I can find no damage! So I complete the burn at max thrust and here's our Mun encounter:

I really hope to tidy up the Mun missions soon... sigh...

[MoridinUK]

Ok so I'm still a full day away from my tug having to make it's rendezvous with Lander. I have a contract to put a Station in orbit around Sun. Any suggestions on what I should include in the design, my first station was a bit meh, what would be useful to have on it? Karbonite convertors (I'm wondering if it is more worthwhile to lift raw karbonite to orbit and process it there than lift the fuel up? Sci Lab? Any and all suggestions welcome? It need only have space for 5 Kerbals!

[MoridinUK]

Ok so the mess is getting messier...

I built a rover to send to Mun or Minmus as I have ground level temp scans to do! In the end I sent it to Minmus, Tug was supposed to refull lander, who could then complete the Mun based readings. Notice the supposed to? lol

Here is the rover in orbit about Kerbin before being flung out to Min..

No more pics because everything went too crazy, I totally messed up Tugs rendouz and have simply left to sort it out! They are in orbits that intersect at AP, the rest of the orbits are the same except that tugs PE is lower, IT 12 days they meet within 1.5 km of each other. I shall match them then and waste MP using the RCS to get them to dock. Lander is totally out of Fuel and has only 28 MPish left.

Training mission 101 left KErbin Soi and caused me a serious panic! I had no idea how to get them back, I had presumed it shouldn't take a lot, but I think there is a problem with The Moridin's Kerbal Space CEntre Tracking system. The Map view did not switch SoI well. I think it needs to be left and reloaded once it switches Soi. To get them back I first fixed thier Sun Orbit to match Kerbins as much as possible and then Burnt towards Kerbin for an encounter. Not elegant but it worked! Phew... Aero break into orbit around Kerbin, then I'll bring them in to land! They all look terrified when out in Sun's Soi...

The rest of my time was wasted on Training flight 201. They are in orbit around Mun and I was trying to use the transfer window planner to get them to Minmus without having to mess about too much. However, I put in the height of my almost equitoral Mun orbit (inc was 2.9 percent) but using the info the window gave me did not give me a Minmus encounter! I can't get the ejection angles right, despite setting the time and exact burns in precision node! How does the transfer window planner work? Gulp!

So to recap, everything is a total mess still!! I have a rover on a good encounter with Min, I have a lot of work to do at Mun! Sigh... Also most of the ships were built with an older kerbal engineer, so now when I'm using them there are no flight engineer info at all, not even the Ap and Pe and times to them hud! I think I may have to retire my current fleet...

Seriously this is my blog rather than a straight up Narative of how not to play Kerbal! Please please please feel free to chip in, add advice, or even just laugh at all my newbie mistakes! I'm still so glad my Duna window is so far away (170 days)

[MoridinUK]

So while waiting the crazy amount of time required to try to fix my Mun Messes, I got on with my other contract to get a station into Sun orbit. I intend to put this just outside of Kerbin's Orbit, unless someone can suggest a better place for it!

Here is the very sensible construction on the launch pad:

Let me talk through this a bit and introduce you all to our new Sun Station!

It has some stuff thrown in to try to make the place potentially useful!

We have an untested Karbonite converter, and distiller. This means the station, if supplied with Karbonite (it has space for 800 at one time) can make both LFO and MP. It has a science pod docked on the back, with room for one Kerbal to return some science back to Kerbin. At the other end is a Claw Probe, RCS powered the Claw is to aid docking! lol.. It's design has been shamelessly stolen from the 5th Horseman, whos videos are the only reason any of us have got off Kerbin.

The return science pod, needs a pilot, so I'm likely to leave this guy in orbit until I get a pilot home, although we may expand the Kerbonaunt complex for more willing victims!

Making his assent:

Nice circular Orbit. I did think I may need to refuel him, but his tank is barely dented... Nuke are amazing when they don't blow up!

[MoridinUK]

Disaster continues to stalk the Moridin's Kerbal Space Program.. A pilot was successfully launched to join the unmanned Sun Station, the rendeuzvous proved difficult and another long wait for the orbits to meet up is to be had. At KSC they are rapidly developing a system with which to practice...

While that was on going, there were some course adjustment, Jeb, in Mun Mission Again, burnt to reduce his escape velocity so as to make getting recaptured much easier, he is now due to leave kerbal SoI in about 11 days.

Training flight 201 made a successful burn for an excellent minmus encounter.

Then disaster, the Rover made a small correction burn mid way out to Minmus, and the Kerbal in charge back at the KSC forgot to re-orientate the probe, and left the computers on... :S Out of power! It does have solar panels but...

They will be in shadow for at least 6 months. Again a working group is formed at KSC. Currently the ideas on the table are to abandon the probe, or to meet up with it and tip it over into the sun, or wait and see if there is any use for the probe in about 6 months time. The program is currently well funded though and so it is not really an issue to simply let our first rover never land.. There is a stage that could be dumped, but it is connected only by docking ports, and theorist don't think this will give enough force to tumble the probe...

Edit: The pic is deceiving, this was taken during it's Minmus encounter, it is not in orbit around Minmus, and mission to tip it over would have to go out to rendezvous with a crazy Kerbin orbit... I may do it anyway, just because I want to see if my one attampt at a rover will work.. I need to build a working bunch of these for the Duna and Ike missions...

Edited February 17, 2015 by MoridinUK

[MoridinUK]

The working group set up to try to save the dead rover came up with several options. The rover is almost out of delta V though, had no fuel and is in this orbit:

This picture doesn't really show how awful the situation is, the orbit is maybe only 40 degrees off being polar... So while tipping the rover will get it power back, it has no fuel to do anything useful at all, so with great glee and abandon the KSP started to make plans to save the probe when it is next at PE, which is in about 30 days time...

The next event was to EVA the pilot over to sun station 1. A Kerbal had never been happier!

In the mean time, Training flight 201 made its burn for Minmus no problem and then it was time to try again at Mun... Lander and Tug were going to play tag once more. It started off badly, the burn which was supposed to give an intercept of 1.1km ended up giving a nice and easy 16km... Undaunted we burnt more fuel than should ever have been necessary but finally Tug and Lander managed to get together, probably in a parking lot...

The Lander was refueled and MP topped off... I'd love to tell you how much Dv it had, but my engineers have no clue.. Mission Control is starting to consider an engineering run to add the necessary parts to the space craft we'd rather not retire...

Lander made an enormous burn to switch orbital direction so it could meet up with Space Station 1 at a speed lower than a relative 1200 m/s

This outlandish orbit was also brought back into something that looks more like the equatorial and at a lower altitude to Space Station 1 ready to dock and unload the science to the Space Lab.

Here is one final pic of Lander in her new orbit...

Doesn't she look pretty, and part of the Mun mess is cleared up. The next stage will be to dock with the Space Station, and get tug into an orbit to refuel the Mun Base 1 so it can finally try to make a landing (85 m/s DV, once the horizontal speed is dead, is not enough to land except in a big heap...)

[MoridinUK]

Right then, so if anyone is reading this, can you let me know?

Also what would you all like, a little more RP? More detail? More pics? More story?

[Randazzo]

I've been reading, you should've gotten a couple "notifications" with my name on them.

I think your stuff is just fine. Don't change it unless -you- think you need to.

[MoridinUK]

I've been reading, you should've gotten a couple "notifications" with my name on them.

I think your stuff is just fine. Don't change it unless -you- think you need to.

Hi there, I did get your notifications thank you! The last one is the main reason I'm even thinking about saving the silly rover (it was untested, I'm pretty sure I was going to drive it off of Minmus pretty much first time! lol)

Thanks for the support!

[Tweety]

I'm reading this. Don't change anything for the sake of other people. After all its about your trials and tribulations with running YOUR space program

Tweety

[MoridinUK]

The rover working group concluded that they still had another 14 days until the rover is at it's PE and thus they could take a quick all inclusive cruise and still get back in time to design (throw something crazy together) a ship to save/refuel/ retool, the rover.

Meanwhile the "W.T.H. happened at Mun, sort it out" working group were putting in some serious over time. With Lander safely refueled and in Low Mun Orbit, they decided that actually docking it was a bit dull. Far more interesting would be burning the Tug into a rendezvous with Mun Base 1 to fill it up and thus send it down to complete a couple of contracts, the Mun base one and drill 550 karbonite on Mun one. The group led was muttering into his koffee cup about how great it would be to get some cash in again..

The problem is Tug, moves like a whale, turns like a whale, is, in fact, perhaps actually a whale and Mun base 1 has no rcs and it's center of thrust is very slightly misaligned with its center of gravity! The best of Kerbal engineering, oh and both lack the computers needed for any useful Delta V information.

Here is Tug's planned burn for intercept... This needs to be precise Whales can be precise right?

And once that burn was complete...

Yay a good intercept..... now if only my f keys didn't have a dual use. F2 is shared with an undo key or Z in other-words, so when f-lock got knocked off, my tug started burning when I wanted a gui-less screen grab.. no matter, we press on right?? right?

It takes so much more messing about to get these two even closely together.. Tug I fear may have to be retired, he is just too unmaneuverable, of course he could see continued service if I let newer better ships come to him...

And here they are making out in Muns parking lot like a couple of teenagers! Finally! WooT... My Mun mess is starting to clear up and Tug seems to be a bit indiscriminate!

Scanning for Karbonite... Node set for the burn to bring Mun Base 1 down to the surface... this is the moment of truth.. I've landed twice so far on Mun.. this will be FUN...

P.S Sorry for how long it took to get this update done...

[MoridinUK]

After some telecommunications issues, Mun Base 1 made a burn to bring her down over a good karbonite deposit.

For some reason the ship need to be loaded into repeatedly before the controls would respond. This beast is also very hard to control, we should have sent a qualified pilot rather than using Kerbal teenagers using video game controllers!

The center of thrust is higher than the center of mass, and so if the engines are allowed to gimbol the ship wont fly straight...

After making some adjustments, the base starts it's burn to kill it's horizontal velocity, not that we know what that is because you know there are no engineer computers...

Ahh pretty!

Remember this is the space programs 3rd Mun landing and first in what passes as a largeish vessel. The approach to the Landing site looks good...

Almost there now.. just keep that horizontal movement off. There is also a problem, the probe core 'should' be able to be told to hold retrograde, but the options are not appearing...

Touch down....

Even with a vertical velocity computer we mess this up.. if you look carefully you can see a tiny amount of flame from the engines... we didn't turn them off fast enough and the small horizontal velocity tipped the station over...

Apparently this still completed our Mun Base contract... YAY but no Karbonite will be had from sticking a drill into the air... Another mess....

People are going to lose their jobs if they can't fix this...

[Randazzo]

You -might- be able to stand it back up by shutting down the engine on the "top". With that reaction wheel and the (carefully managed) engine thrust, it just might stand up.

It also might just drag along the ground or explode.

[MoridinUK]

You -might- be able to stand it back up by shutting down the engine on the "top". With that reaction wheel and the (carefully managed) engine thrust, it just might stand up.

It also might just drag along the ground or explode.

Wait and see, though I didn't take enough screen grabs my hands were busy...

[MoridinUK]

Arghhhed, ok so a vessel, which has two hitchhiker pods but no core and no command pod (I know!). If I get a KErbal into the HH cabin can I give it commands?

[MoridinUK]

After attempting several fixes in the Simulator it became apparent that the only way to 'right' the station was to get it off the ground. The gimbols on the engines were successfully unlocked, the reaction wheel fired up and the landing structs retracted... Power up the engines and lets see if we can do this..

Dragging the station along the Munar surface is very scary.

Finally she is up and intact. This is the dangerous part, as we manual lock the gimbals again or we will lose control into a spin.

After much messing about, or flight and velocity adjustments as the flight crew insisted we were on for a descent again, not much fuel and we don't want to leave the Karbonite rich area...

Landing (again) in 5.4.3.2.....

She is down, upright and the solar panels are deployed, ready to detach the engines...

Here she is very pretty and powered on the Mun... Then engines with the core is landed not too far off but came down a little too hard and the engines were lost..

Start the Karbonite drill.... the Karbonite drill.. the... oh.. we detached the only core didn't we? *Facepalm*

Also, if we fill those tanks will it stay upright?

Another working group of even less qualified Kerbals is put together, the other one, the rover group, is still on its cruise...

[JAD_Interplanetary]

... oh.. we detached the only core didn't we? *Facepalm*

I have done this so many times.

Still, great save bringing the ship upright!

[Th3F3aR]

This story really made my day

Reading it on one side and meanwhile watching the todays spacewalk, great combination!

Keep up your good work, although it's "newbie", it's interesting, and you did one of the best things with it, to share it while you are progressing

BTW: Hope that mun mess cleans up soon

[MoridinUK]

The new working group had locked themselves in the Konference room, until someone brainstormed some idea, on how to solve this idiot core problem on the Mun. Some sipped at their cold Koffee while others scribled out designs for rovers which may or may not be able to dock on the side.

Some where dreaming of something like this:

But in the end, without a contract to fulfill on the way, the problem needed to be solved with local resources. But how.

"What we need is a core...."

There the obvious was stated....

******

On the flight deck the flight lieutenant was watching the tracking station and something bugged him. The debris left on the surface, the part of the base which had had the engines, blinked on the screen, designation Mun Base 1. The coreless base, blinked Mun Base 1 Ship. Of course that couldn't be renamed without a core, but the irony of the Debris being left call Mun Base 1 was ridiculous.

******

In the Konfference room across the corridor, the working group muttered to each other while watching the televised image of the coreless base, being transmitted from Space Station One still in orbit above Mun.

For the 100th time, project lead asked "What assets do we have a Mun..."

With a sigh, her second in command, and next for the chop if they couldn't get this fixed replied for the 100th time...

"The Base, the debris, Lander with a pilot and scientist on board, Space Station one, and Tug... Only Lander is capable of landing..... There are no spare cores anywhere near the Mun...."

Silence descended, and then, as the screen blinked the all turned to look at it, after all nothing should have changed...

******

Back on the flight deck the Lieutenant tapped at a keyboard, renaming the debris, "What to call it? Junk, Leftovers, rubbish..." He mused, knowing he couldn't erase it from the system yet, not while the group, so near by, were still hoping to find someway to fix their mess. "The core" he decided and taped the info in.

******

"The Core?" project lead asked out loud watching the name change on the screen. Then realisation dawned... "The CORE!" Her no. 2 look up at her, back at the screen, back to her, "The core?, the core, THE CORE! and Kod Bless the United States Of Kermica! THE CORE"

Project lead tapped away at the keyboard excitedly and then look up at the screen before slumping back into her chair...

"74.6 meters...."

"Yeah" Said no. 3 "maybe if we land a ship or two in between we can hook it back up?"

"No" replied no. 1 "We only have Lander that can land, and we don't want to leave her on the Mun complete with 2 Kerbalnaughts"

"What can we see.., The base and the core, you know it looks like only the engines died when that crashed down.... wait a min... hmm"

And with that No 1 was up on her feet, unlocked the door and disappeared into the flight deck...

"Should we follow her?"

"Probably"

and the whole working group shuffled dejectedly into the flight deck.

******

"Flight Lieutenant, systems check on 'The Core' please" No. 1 barked with a sense of purpose no one else felt.

"Core: Good, Electrical systems: Good, Engines: *cough* inoperable, Power Generation: Good, Command and Control: Good."

Grinning No 1 ordered the controls patched through to the command chair and grasped the joystick with determination, jerking it hard over and then hitting the spin control...

Gasps around the room....

"We are putting the core back together" No.1 announced... as she bounced and rolled the debris about using that huge reaction wheel...

Rolling over to the base had everyone holding their breaths, especially when trying to stand the core back up, if it was ever filled with fuel it could roll away if left on its side!

"There" Said no. 1.

The others look at her amazed, now patch me through to Lander, she has a new mission...

First she burns to intercept Space Station 1

Docking...

We're getting better at that... Process the science, refuel then on to the descent to Base.

The landing was tricky as the most precise ever attempted, Lander over shot and had to come back burning precious fuel... but then..

Landed, near by and no bangs, or tips

A bit of a Mun Walk.."Giant Leaps are what you take, Walking on the Mun" Sang No.1.

Everyone had been too excited to think about Sunlight.. ooppps

Fuel point one attached to the base

Fuel point two attached and then...

We've put the band back together!

And once the sun came up:

However, Lander looks low on fuel and is too far for a fuel line.. looks like a hop *gulp* will be needed...

[MoridinUK]

Sigh, I'm trying to get together an update but real life has made it a bit tough, and I'm close to quiting... I don't want to quit but I can not make anything like an efficient landing especially if I need it at a specific point, I seem to instinctively press the opposite direction I need when trying to cancel out horizontal vectors.... I know which way I want/need to go but I always press the opposite first and have to notice things are getting worse...

Trying to land at a specific place is really tougher than any youtube video I've watched. I always over shoot or I undershoot, I can't judge when to burn to kill the horizontal velocity. I left Kerbin with about 3000 dv and I couldn't land (at the Mun Base) I got within 200 meters, but was out of DV... 3000dv! I should have been able to get to Duna and back....