The Number War: Count to 100 or -100

[PB666]

nobodies hasies a cookies that would be an oxymoronies. 

[Dman979]

OK, guys, let's settle down here a bit.

There are a few things going on here, and they are all very important.

First: a side claims to have reached +/- 100. Thank you for pinging me. That is a game-ending event, and no reverts are allowed after the "100" post, except in special cases as determined by the GM team. In the future, please remember to ping @RainDreamer and @Deutherius, too. We are all GMs, so any of us can respond to you.

Second: There have been a few improper attempts at reverting.

To make a revert, follow this procedure:

1. Quote the last correct post and the one before it.
2. Quote the offending post(s) (not too many )
3. Quote the post after the offending post
4. State which post is the last valid post, the action done on it, and the player who made it.
5. State why the offending post is in violation of the rules.
6. If you did not make the last valid post, feel free make the next valid post. If you made the last valid post, wait for the next person to post a number.

We have this set up so that we, the GMs, and you, the players, can quickly see what error was made.

Third: Treachery. There is no such thing in this game, because any player can post for any side at any time, provided they did not post the last valid post. While it's fun to trash talk, please remember that it's just a game.

Fourth: The Medal of Dishonor was instituted in order to call out players who have boosted their team to a victory. While this is not illegal, and will not be illegal in the future, it is discouraged to do so. We will record any wins using the tactic snidely, but will not invalidate them.

Fifth: EDITING IS AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME. MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT MAKES IT A LOT HARDER FOR US TO CHECK THE POSTS ON A ROUND WIN, AND MAKES IT HARDER FOR YOU TO TELL WHAT IS VALID AND WHAT IS NOT. EVEN IF YOUR POST IS INCORRECT, PLEASE DO NOT EDIT IT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Sixth: Players can only refresh the page so quickly before this looks like a DDOS attack. We understand that. We also understand that one person may end up posting against two from the other team. To that effect, players can override another player with proper timing, or just luck. If two players post in the same minute, changing the number in opposite directions, then the second post is correct. This can only happen with two posts, though. If there is a third post in that same minute, then it must be in sequence after the second post. If there is a fourth post, it may override the third post, and so on. However, all the posts concerned must have the same timestamp.

Seventh: If a there is a rule-following revert or override, all players must play from that point. This is true even if the revert is back to -99, and everyone thought they were at +99.

 

Finally, please do not continue to play after a GM says that a win is being looked at. If you have concerns about the validity of the win, PM all three of us with your comments.

[PB666]

34 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

OK, guys, let's settle down here a bit.

There are a few things going on here, and they are all very important.

First: a side claims to have reached +/- 100. Thank you for pinging me. That is a game-ending event, and no reverts are allowed after the "100" post, except in special cases as determined by the GM team. In the future, please remember to ping @RainDreamer and @Deutherius, too. We are all GMs, so any of us can respond to you.

Second: There have been a few improper attempts at reverting.

To make a revert, follow this procedure:

1. Quote the last correct post and the one before it.
2. Quote the offending post(s) (not too many )
3. Quote the post after the offending post
4. State which post is the last valid post, the action done on it, and the player who made it.
5. State why the offending post is in violation of the rules.
6. If you did not make the last valid post, feel free make the next valid post. If you made the last valid post, wait for the next person to post a number.

We have this set up so that we, the GMs, and you, the players, can quickly see what error was made.

Third: Treachery. There is no such thing in this game, because any player can post for any side at any time, provided they did not post the last valid post. While it's fun to trash talk, please remember that it's just a game.

Fourth: The Medal of Dishonor was instituted in order to call out players who have boosted their team to a victory. While this is not illegal, and will not be illegal in the future, it is discouraged to do so. We will record any wins using the tactic snidely, but will not invalidate them.

Fifth: EDITING IS AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME. MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT MAKES IT A LOT HARDER FOR US TO CHECK THE POSTS ON A ROUND WIN, AND MAKES IT HARDER FOR YOU TO TELL WHAT IS VALID AND WHAT IS NOT. EVEN IF YOUR POST IS INCORRECT, PLEASE DO NOT EDIT IT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Sixth: Players can only refresh the page so quickly before this looks like a DDOS attack. We understand that. We also understand that one person may end up posting against two from the other team. To that effect, players can override another player with proper timing, or just luck. If two players post in the same minute, changing the number in opposite directions, then the second post is correct. This can only happen with two posts, though. If there is a third post in that same minute, then it must be in sequence after the second post. If there is a fourth post, it may override the third post, and so on. However, all the posts concerned must have the same timestamp.

Seventh: If a there is a rule-following revert or override, all players must play from that point. This is true even if the revert is back to -99, and everyone thought they were at +99.

 

Finally, please do not continue to play after a GM says that a win is being looked at. If you have concerns about the validity of the win, PM all three of us with your comments.

I can tell you what happened, 011Narwhales post was94 followed by my post was 93. There was a Aveo.. posted a 95 thinking he was following 94, the Vys posted 94 thinking he was basing on mine, 011Narwhales posted 96 based on Aveo's unedited 95 and quoted the reg, not seeing his i posted 93 based on Vys's 94, in the neantime Aveo changed his 95 to 94. At that point the game should have stopped so that game mod could have taken a look. Two rules contradicted, because if rule 7 was correct then its basis was removed by the edit and my post was correct.  following this a post, 011Nawhales was made with 2 different playable values, again a game stopping mistake. At least in watching this unviel the game was broken at 94/96 conundrum. 

[Vysionone]

3 hours ago, PB666 said:

From what i see, positive players shoot in numbers as fast as they can, a number, they tend not tonrefresh before posting or after, they assume that what they see on their screen is correct and then only check when its shouted to them. 

After being told to read the rules and to refresh  frequently. So here in the last round you see that around 93 a bunch of number were thrown out, i responded to a valid number 94 and posted 93, note that none of my ## posts were edited after that. Someone then quoted a reg that my number was not valid, while they went back and changed their numbers to make them appear valid, i said wait, but no they chrged ahead..... I think minus desreves a default victory because they have pulled this routine twice. They even posted multiple numbers in one post so that they seem, two or three minutes later that they were valid. A clock is right at least 2wice a day no matter how badly it works. But i myself did not have a chance to sort through this before they posted victory. 

You did not see all the edits, that 100 is based on a number of questionable edits that were not allowed tomsort out, again. 

I actually refresh; I am just on mobile and it takes a little longer to type, and my internet connection is not the best.

[0111narwhalz]

1 hour ago, Dman979 said:

To make a revert, follow this procedure

Will do. Can we plop that in the OP?

1 hour ago, Dman979 said:

DO NOT EDIT IT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Noted.

4 hours ago, PB666 said:

Slow down you are going to cause another fault. 

The man's a prophet!

32 minutes ago, PB666 said:

[history]

I'd like to apologize for my faults and confusing posts. I'll do better during the upcoming game.

[Mycroft]

I'm not sure if I did anything wrong, but I would just like to apologize if I did do anything, and make it clear that I have switched to the negative side and I made it a point after I requested to avoid editing to not edit any of my posts and point out problems where I see them. One such problem appears that, as I have found numerous times, when we have a duel between two members of opposing sides, we sometimes ramp up posts to several a second, and as I am on a mobile device with a clunky browser, I find that often the number changes rather drastically between the time I start typing, and when I hit the post button, even though it's just five characters or so. Hence, I have a very hard time keeping up with the pace, and that often throws me off kilter. If I can, I try to post the correct number as quickly as possible, but once again I am hampered by the fact that I am on a mobile and cannot type or refresh as fast as those on computers. Perhaps we could slow it down a tad?

[Deutherius]

I would also like to point out that nothing prevents players from keeping track of mistakes in the progression. Such a mistake doesn't expire with time (only when it's part of a sequence that was invalidated by another revert) and can be used to revert the progression and cripple the opposing side, if used with correct timing.

Some might frown upon such a tactic, but remember - this is a war. And when you fight against horrible odds, you have to use everything to your advantage.

[PB666]

1 hour ago, Deutherius said:

I would also like to point out that nothing prevents players from keeping track of mistakes in the progression. Such a mistake doesn't expire with time (only when it's part of a sequence that was invalidated by another revert) and can be used to revert the progression and cripple the opposing side, if used with correct timing.

Some might frown upon such a tactic, but remember - this is a war. And when you fight against horrible odds, you have to use everything to your advantage.

You mean like this post that steps up from a 44 (-) in the middle of the night. 

Another 2 number jump. 

[Dman979]

6 hours ago, PB666 said:

You mean like this post that steps up from a 44 (-) in the middle of the night. 

Another 2 number jump. 

There are some even better examples, too. If you search for "Deutherius," you'll see what I mean.

[Mycroft]

Soooooo any ideas on whether or not the win was legit or not?

[Dman979]

38 minutes ago, Mycroft said:

Soooooo any ideas on whether or not the win was legit or not?

We will get back to you shortly. Most of us have IRL jobs, too.

[Deutherius]

On 1. 7. 2016 at 1:27 PM, PB666 said:

You mean like this post that steps up from a 44 (-) in the middle of the night. 

Another 2 number jump. 

The first one was posted in a one minute window after the previous and opposite operation, which means it's a valid override as per rule #7 - check the timestamps and you'll see.

The second one is exactly what I would use just before the positives win to set them back by about 60 points. I'd even have the post prepared in advance with a thorough explanation of the mistake, quoted rules that it broke and the last valid post from which to continue. I might even have multiple revert points prepared and only revert to the most recent one, one at a time Keeps the game fun and the opposing sides nice and salty. It also teaches the rules of the game quite effectively I would say

[PB666]

1 hour ago, Deutherius said:

The first one was posted in a one minute window after the previous and opposite operation, which means it's a valid override as per rule #7 - check the timestamps and you'll see.

The second one is exactly what I would use just before the positives win to set them back by about 60 points. I'd even have the post prepared in advance with a thorough explanation of the mistake, quoted rules that it broke and the last valid post from which to continue. I might even have multiple revert points prepared and only revert to the most recent one, one at a time Keeps the game fun and the opposing sides nice and salty. It also teaches the rules of the game quite effectively I would say

you mean like this post?

I had thrown many warning shots over the bow, but they played so impulsively that they did not reason that there were significant long-reverting errors in thier game. 

[Deutherius]

3 hours ago, PB666 said:

you mean like this post?

I had thrown many warning shots over the bow, but they played so impulsively that they did not reason that there were significant long-reverting errors in thier game. 

If the opposing side disregards a valid revert, call the GMs, we will most likely stop the game and sort the mess out. Don't forget that there are 3 of us spread across different timezones, so mention us all to get a maximum chance of fast response (but don't forget that we are only humans as well). For example, I check the game regularly, but people rarely call on me if there's trouble - in which case I can't really help at the time and it's really easy to miss something afterwards.

Also remember that reverts from players are only accepted if they were posted before the end of the round, which the post you have quoted isn't. If you made a valid revert and it was ignored, please point us to it and justice will be done.

Last but not least, warning shots are nice, but not official. If you "warn" the opposing side that they are "offstep by 1", it means nothing. Follow my earlier advice and you'll be golden.

[PB666]

On July 1, 2016 at 0:58 PM, Dman979 said:

There are some even better examples, too. If you search for "Deutherius," you'll see what I mean.

Actually it was posted before the end of the first round, and actually if you read between the two post you will find the i mention the problem directly once and indirectly another time. The basic problem is that i got worn down after a time by all the impulsive, don't look back posting, certainly I should have been more documentative. I only considered the issue that the game should be default once the first revert resulted  immediately into, as a real time observer, a trashed game. My metric then was the positives collectively (but not individually) did not deserve to win the round as they cared little about the rules. 

I want to play, not be a third grade English teacher. It is somewhat unfair to ask one person on the opposing team to keep up to try to neutralize 6 or 7 players on the opposing team and keep up with all their faults simultaneously. I mean one could take the strategy of the snitch, and just let them run up the score and at the last post basically start throwing out faults, but us negs also put forth some decent runs at night, being respectful of the rules. I you run a fault throwing strategy, the the runs you have with allies will be all for not, so there is that psychological barrier. 

The other problem is that notification tagging on the ipad is strainedbecause one cannot scrool down the listing, so for instance it took me about 10 minutes a while ago to get a hyoerlinked notification tag for The White Guardian, if the post came with a static time stamp on all OS then its alot easier, but if you are in the middle of a run-up, by the time you get three tags, write  the message you are going to be many posts away from where you noted and the 2 minutes ago, will now be like 12 minutes ago. I get it, no le hace, because the fault trumps everything that was done, but it is an immediate change in strategy. 

[Dman979]

4 hours ago, PB666 said:

~Snip!~ 

You seem to be very concerned that everyone follows the rules. That's good. 

My suggestion is that you do like Deutherius suggested- keep a Word document or something similar with all the posts you can revert back to. Have an explanation written out for each revert, and when you feel like a win is about to happen, then copy and paste the appropriate entry into the comment box. Then all you have to do is hit "Submit Reply-" you don't have to worry about wasting time to go back and look up the correct post.

Here's an example of what Deu did a while ago:

On April 22, 2015 at 7:25 PM, dharak1 said:

91 ok we need more positives

TO everyone else- be careful that you're posting the correct number! You never know who might be keeping track...

Edited July 3, 2016 by Dman979

[PB666]

33 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

You seem to be very concerned that everyone follows the rules. That's good. 

My suggestion is that you do like Deutherius suggested- keep a Word document or something similar with all the posts you can revert back to. Have an explanation written out for each revert, and when you feel like a win is about to happen, then copy and paste the appropriate entry into the comment box. Then all you have to do is hit "Submit Reply-" you don't have to worry about wasting time to go back and look up the correct post.

Here's an example of what Deu did a while ago:

 

In game theory, the D stategy completely turns the war into one of stealth attacks, subtrifuge. Of course when the opposing sides behaves like mob rule, its an effective strategy. You have to have a mindset to do it from the start. 

I should point out another game theory stategy is to have UTC loaded next to the game, and to figure out which UTC second most closely corresponds to the minute timestamp break point and then only submit changes on the time stamp so that no matter what the opponent posts your post will always be the last one in the time bracket. Its kind of like card counting in Vegas. 

[Dman979]

Just now, PB666 said:

In game theory, the D stategy completely turns the war into one of stealth attacks, subtrifuge. Of course when the opposing sides behaves like mob rule, its an effective strategy. You have to have a mindset to do it from the start. 

I should point out another game theory stategy is to have UTC loaded next to the game, and to figure out which UTC second most closely corresponds to the minute timestamp break point and then only submit changes on the time stamp so that no matter what the opponent posts your post will always be the last one in the time bracket. Its kind of like card counting in Vegas. 

Yes, I suppose that would also work, too.

[Deutherius]

33 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

Yes, I suppose that would also work, too.

You should know very well

34 minutes ago, PB666 said:

In game theory, the D stategy completely turns the war into one of stealth attacks, subtrifuge. Of course when the opposing sides behaves like mob rule, its an effective strategy. You have to have a mindset to do it from the start. 

I should point out another game theory stategy is to have UTC loaded next to the game, and to figure out which UTC second most closely corresponds to the minute timestamp break point and then only submit changes on the time stamp so that no matter what the opponent posts your post will always be the last one in the time bracket. Its kind of like card counting in Vegas. 

Yes. Back in my day I was pretty much exactly in your shoes, often going 1 vs many or 1 vs 2-3 spammers (we like to call them "boosters"). To be completely honest I think they started using the boosting strategy because I kept the rounds going for way too long with countless reverts Sorry about that.

I know how you feel, I know it can be really frustrating. Rest assured that the win is getting scrutinized by the GM team right now.

[RainDreamer]

So after a long reviewing process, we have decided to disqualified the previous round positives' win for the following reasons:

1. There was a revert here after  the number has already reach 100, without permission from GMs:

 

On 7/1/2016 at 4:17 AM, Mycroft said:

Ok then, 85 (-) 

 

Player reverts are only possible BEFORE the number reaching 100/-100, and if there are disputes, call us GMs to check on the validity of the win. Only GM can decide if there should be a revert after 100/-100. It really complicate things for us.

 

2. There were too many edits that complicate the reviewing process to ensuring everything was done correctly, and it caused needlessly confusions as well.

 

Therefore, we have decided that the positive win is disqualified, and edits are now heavily discouraged. Please do not edit in any circumstances. We cannot make it a generalistic, hard rule yet since there are too many possibilities that may happen in an edit, it will be a case by case thing for now as it happen.

Final note: The GM team still need more people as we are more and more busy with RL stuff, which makes reviewing process takes needlessly long time.So if you are interested, PM me, Dman,or Deutherius.

For now, let us begin anew:

0

 

[Dfthu]

1 [+]

[solarbearman]

0

[PB666]

-1 (-)

[qzgy]

0 [+]

[PB666]

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█ █ █   -1  █ █ █
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