The Orion and the Kraken?! (6000m auto explosion)

[Arugela]

So I'm working on my ship again because the game has better performance. And this thing so far should be able to get into orbit. But I'm running into this one issue.... It always explodes at the same altitude no matter what. And the F3 log to show aht exploded is always invisible after the explosion(just installed truetype fonts but haven't tested again, or am about to/am as of this writing. Note thought that the F3 stuff is usually visible before this explosion as far as I can tell. I'm not sure of the cause.

The ship after some time also starts blowing up similarly on the runway after the has run a while. I must restart the game to correct this.

And I just reinstalled and dragged my save file with just the craft needed. So it's a clean install. No mods obviously as per the forum.

 

Stats:

KSP v1.1.2.1260 64bit

Fedora 22 (unsure of kernel. latest I think.)

Phenom II 1100t

560ti Fermi 1gb card.

8gigs 1600 ram

SSD

Files:

player.log <-Last flight was the successful one. The previous one(s) was the booster version.

Warning: 3000+ part ship!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bmizrnozbkadfm6/The Orion V3 1_1_2 _w boosters.craft?dl=0 <- To launch: turn on SAS; Max thrust; hit space bar once. Fly straight up to potentially reproduce the issue.

Edit:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3cb9zdgkan0tiil/The%20Orion%20V3%201_1_2.craft?dl=0 <- Same ship without boosters. Just got past the 6k mark and no explosions with this version.

I wonder if this is a parts count issue or a struts issue. Maybe I need to redo the struts on the boosters?! There are a lot hanging out. I guess I'll have to remake the boosters and see if the problem persists.

BugTracker:

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/9717#change-44058 <- If anyone wants to follow!

Edited May 12, 2016 by Arugela

[steve_v]

Ahh, the dreaded "double free or corruption" crash. (look at the very top of your log)
I get these too, though I can't reproduce it reliably.

The only word I have heard from Squad so far is this:

On 18/04/2013 at 9:29 AM, sal_vager said:

"KSP crashes!" (New for 1.1)

KSP will crash, seemingly at random, but it appears to occur due to the Unity3D game engines garbage collection (GC).

The GC will run with every scene change, and while most logs show only a stack trace with memory locations and no useful information sometimes the logs will show that the crash was due to a double call to free() or memory corruption, or due to an invalid memory size.

Unfortunately this is at the engine level and is not addressable by Squad.

The fact that this is even possible also suggests a deep fundamental flaw in the game engine as it should prevent any calls to free() twice on an object.

 

You have a craft that causes it reliably, and you say it always happens at the same altitude... this may be useful information to take to the bug tracker.
From the above quote it sounds very much like Squad doesn't intend to do anything about it though.

I wish I could help here, but I'm looking for an answer too.

Edited May 4, 2016 by steve_v

[Arugela]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yhu9ocibaanva6x/The Orion V3 1_1_2 boosters2.craft?dl=0 <- redid the struts!

Same problem. And it blows up at 6km at approx 275m/s.

If you fly it without the boosters it goes quite a bit faster and does not have the problem. It seems to be the parts count and maybe what my system can handle together or something I'm assuming.(if that is related to the bug you mentioned.) And the explosions happen in the upper main part of the ship both ships share. I even had this problem when the boosted ship was only 3009 parts. I added struts to get it to 3329 and the 3331 parts of these two boosted versions. Unless that extra thrust is causing strain on something there is something else wrong besides normal structural problems. It even crashed my game this time. I'll have to upload the crash log. *The unboosted ship is only like 2600-2700 parts and does not explode with greater velocity and resistance going up. Albeit it is only pushing approx half of the thrust of the boosted version(144k vs 288k thrust) and some of that thrust is not on the 4 pylons.(AKA it's more widely distributed.)

 

Another odd part to note again is that if the game doesn't crash after the explosion(aka catastrophic failure!) the F3 log is not visible even if I can go back to the pad, or vab, etc. the F3 log is always viewable atleast at launch and during parts of flight. I haven't tested it all but I would imagine it goes with the explosion.

 

***Where is the crash log located! 8) Or the output_log.txt for that matter. The only one I know how to find is the player.log one I uploaded above.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x6oiquels3ghfnp/NewPlayer.log?dl=0 <-Updated player.log with the newest crash/explosion.

***Apparently I just got lucky with that one flight of the boosterless version. Now it can't get it past 6km either. It is now acting the same as the boosted version and I cannot test my craft.

I was so close to finally getting to fly my ship around the solar system!! 8(...

Edited May 5, 2016 by Arugela

[Arugela]

And I have no idea how to file a bug report on that site. How exactly do you do that?

And did anyone else try flying the craft and get the same results?

And can someone official please respond to this(or confirm the issue.). Anything could help. There seems to be nothing I can do.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Arugela

[Arugela]

BTW I have gotten the ship into orbit once by flying from the runway and not the launchpad. Not sure why it mattered. I have not tried reproducing it yet to see if it works more than once. I also got a lucky one from the Launchpad once. this may or may not be reproducible. The glitch is reproducible however!

[sal_vager]

Still no luck finding the cause of the double free() btw, but as new Unity versions become available they will be explored in the hope that they address this issue, so to suggest that Squad will do nothing is not quite correct

[Arugela]

I don't know if this is new info or not. But when it exploded at 6k this time it reset the clock and acted a little like it had just launched on the launchpad. Like refreshing the kerbal pictures so that they had static. It almost seemed like it refresh the physics like on initial load on the launchpad. It also slowly tore apart the ship section by section.

I'm about to launch the boostered version of my updated ship from the runway again and see if it can get past 6k like my earlier one did previously. Hopefully there is something lucky about the runway vs the launchpad.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ice9vzf2bim71w/The Orion V4 1_1_2 v2 boosters.craft?dl=0

Is there a reason why my ship has an extra part in the map window compared to the VAB/SPH parts count?! could that be part of some issue?

Edit: This time up I went to the map view while crossing the 6k barrier to see if it helped. I got something interesting I got back in like 1.0.4 if I'm not mistaken. But only once:

If these is related than the problem has potentially existed a while. But I was only able to do this once. Unless it is simply coincidental. It was one of my previous favorite bugs because it made a cool ship explosion over the planets map view!

I'll have to try the under 3k version again on the runway and see if I get it up to orbit. That was one of the differences previously.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Arugela

[sal_vager]

Well I can't even launch these, they are too big.

Have you stopped to consider that 3000+ parts may be too many?

[Arugela]

What software would let me record a launch and make it so it runs in the 1:50 it takes to get to 6k and explode according to the in game timer as opposed to real time. I know one of the recording things allows you do to this with KSP.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Arugela

[smjjames]

3k? HA! I've flown 4k+ part crafts no problem. It's laggy, yes, but very possible.

@Arugela Could you upload all the versions of that craft you're using to the bugreport? I've already replied to it though.

Edit: I've downloaded them off of here, but probably should at least link the crafts in the bug report.

Edited May 12, 2016 by smjjames

[Arugela]

yea, the other version is just it with boosters so you don't need the fuel cheat to get into orbit initially. It's around 3213 as of the latest version. The other versions are all small parts changes. around 100 difference or less.

File:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ice9vzf2bim71w/The Orion V4 1_1_2 v2 boosters.craft?dl=0

I'll put this in the bug report also.

This is an unmodded ship in a fresh install(the ship is from 1.05 and earlier though. But fixed up for each version where needed.). the only thing I did after the fresh install was import the save file because I have things in it I like to keep. Like an old version of this ship landed on minmus. There are only 13 flights or so in the whole save. And I only kept the ships I needed for testing this basically.

Edit: to fly the boostered version above. Don't turn on the 1,2,3 engines. Just use spacebare to activate the booster sections. If you use the engines(execpt maybe 2, which is insufficient to help regardless.) it will blow itself up with heat damage.

They should let us edit in the bug report like on these forums. I always miss something. Nvm, I just found the button for it. I feel stupid! 8)

Edit2: I'm about to test it in a fresh save also(I did a fresh install but imported my save folder into it.). I forgot to do this previously. I'll run several flights to see if they all blow up.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Arugela

[smjjames]

25 minutes ago, Arugela said:

Edit2: I'm about to test it in a fresh save also. I forgot to do this previously. I'll run several flights to see if they all blow up.

Okay.

Got briefly confused on the v3 with boosters, but I've got it figured out.

Edited May 12, 2016 by smjjames

[Arugela]

The version 4 is better. It has fixed issues with the struts on the center mid engines that made them loose. It is rock solid as far as structure goes. Although the Version 3 should not explode from such issues either. I tested that first. The struts in version 3 merely came loose from going from one update to the other. So version 4 is the proper up to date version. I get no difference in these issues between versions.

Edit:  In version 3 the engines on shortcut 5 can blow up a few small parts. I never used them during launches. This was fixed in version 4. This is because they re reverse engines facing a few weaker parts. This was not done during any of the test as I only used the 1,2,3 engines.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Arugela

[smjjames]

Okay, I'll use version 4 then. Also, the v3 boostered version exploded for me at 6km, so, confirmed. Going to try doing that one slower to see if it has anything to do with trying to punch through the sound barrier.

[Arugela]

I ran into that thought a bit too. The boostered version or one of them noted above always hit 275m/s at 6k reliably. It was always exploding. But I did one with the non boostered and it got it's one lucky flight and was much faster. Although later it did explode each time regardless. That was another odd behavior. you may get one lucky flight where it doesn't. ONe for the launchpad and one for the runway.

I also have one part on the ship that I cannot take off without corrupting the file. I have a thread on that in this unmoded forum. I don't know if it has anything to do with it but I guess it's always possible. It's the one other odd thing about this ship. Thinking of that I'm going to find a much older version of the ship and see if it still has the issue. I have some in a backed up file from 1.0.5.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/139421-ye-olde-file-corruption-issue/#comment-2573577 <-this is the same ship. I'll try to see if I can get a version without this issue and fly it also. Just to be certain. if I can find one.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Arugela

[smjjames]

Dangit, the v3 boostered version exploded on phys load when  I reverted to launch..... editwhiletyping, and a SECOND TIME, lol....

[Arugela]

Yep, That is the other issue. It should go away after restarting the game.

If you want to try the other odd part of this. Before you hit 6km. Hit "M" and sit in the map mode and wait for it to explode. It may give you the other issue where it blows up the ship in map mode and you get to watch it overlay d over the kerbin space view.

Pic:

[smjjames]

I tried to launch the V4 one with bug thingking maybe it won't explode, but NOPE. Though I'm not sure if it exploded because of the bug you mentioned or because I dumped ore tanks.

I'll upload the log from that run to the bug report....

Edited May 12, 2016 by smjjames

[Arugela]

from what I've seen I doubt it's the ore tanks. It seems to be nothing structural. At least not in the normal sense. If there is a structure issue it seems to be some sort of very odd occasion.

I've been loading old 1.05 version but they all have the radiator panel with the issue on them. They all corrupt the file also after removing and saving and loading again just like in this one.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Arugela

[smjjames]

Have you tried relaunching it after the bug and use unbreakable joints, no crash damage, and hacked gravity? You get kraken attacked horribly.

Still doing some experiments with the v4 booster bugged one since that is reliable.

Edited May 12, 2016 by smjjames

[Arugela]

I'm trying that now.

I might have seen that before also. I flew this or another ship(probably this one) into orbit. Possibly with those settings for testing. This may have been when I had to because of 1.0.5 and how I had to use less struts to lower parts count at the time. They all held together and propelled themselves at high velocities out of orbit and flew out from kerbin. The diameter of the parts being held together by super long struts or some gravity affect was like bigger than the kerbin SOI in space! (AKA it was bigger than minmuses orbit.)

 

BTW, all my 1.0.5 saves have the same file corruption issue with the radiator panel. I bet they would also blow up. (they are literally this ship but In two parts in some cases. The only difference is this is strutted better.)

I finally found a 1.0.4 version but it may be very different looking. Checking it now. After I blow up the ship and test that last issue that is.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Arugela

[smjjames]

Is the save or file corruption confined to just that ship or are other ship designs affected?

Currently doing a slow coasting test (between 20 and 30m/s) with hacked gravity and other stuff on. Also testing with the radiators extended to see if that affects anything.

Edited May 12, 2016 by smjjames

[Arugela]

I tried some other ships and they don't seem to be affected. I thought at first they were but I think I was remembering wrong.

I even returned to the VAB after the explosions were happening earlier after returning to launchpad and other ships loaded and flew fine. But if I went back to this ship it blew up again  on the launchpad just the same. It seems to be this ship only. That is why I'm suspecting that radiator panel now. I've seen it twice in the F3 log as the first part causing problems. And prior to moving the part to the top of the ship it the explosions used to start in slow motion right where that panel was previously. When I moved the panel to the nose the ship explosions now act more like they might be starting at the nose. Where the radiator is located. it is my top suspect now.

BTW, the radiator I'm referring too is not the large radiators on the engine pods. It's the non retractable passive ones at the nose of the ship just behind the drills(between the two MK3 cockpits). The extendable radiator panels are not bugged.

And the bug only happens when removing those two passive panels then saving the file and reloading it in the VAB. And possibly during this stuff if it's related to the explosions somehow.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Arugela

[smjjames]

You're most likely right, I checked back at the first output log and the first thing to go is one of the large radiator panels, structural failure.

[Arugela]

This time I flew with:

Unbreakable joints

No crash damage

ignore max tempurature

infinite propellent

Infinite electrictiy

Allow parts clipping in editors(bug hazzard)

non strick part attachment orientation check

 

IT did not explode at 6km. I'm trying to reproduce the kraken attack on the launchpad and not being successful now that I actually want to do it. 8\

Edit: I just flew it again without any cheats on the non boosted version and no blow up again. I'll try the boosted version to see if it retriggers it. The only odd thing I saw was it looked like the engines had an odd stutter at around 6km this time.

We may be getting to close to discovering the krakens true home and nature and he is sleeking away into the darkness again!!

Edited May 12, 2016 by Arugela