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  • Opt-in Prerelease for 1.1!


    Ted

    KSP_logo_full.png.99743e7d63a15357cde91d

     

    Hi all,

     

    As I'm sure many of you read, 1.1 is to enter Experimentals this week! It's a significant update to KSP in terms of just how much has changed under the hood. We've done a complete overhaul of the user interface from a conglomerate of interface systems to Unity 5's native system. Aside from that, an entirely new system for the wheels had to be adopted due to the major changes Unity made to the native wheels system, and the list goes on!

     

    Quality Assurance is the most bare bone part of the entire testing process and is performed by around five to ten QA testers pretty much constantly. The focussed testing and efficiency mean that instead of going through the motions of the game as a normal player would, QA tends to identify areas of the new content that would usually be prone to issue and hunt for bugs there. This cuts down the time taken to find issues by a significant margin and means that the content is tested more evenly – playtesting can sometimes skip completely past some aspects of a feature. Furthermore, this method allows the testers to work closely with the developers and compare exactly what they intended to occur for specific cases, to what actually occurs – this is where QA becomes more about feedback.

     

    QA is a lot more than just finding bugs. It’s about having the knowledge of the game (especially how it works under-the-hood), the comprehension of the ideas behind the features in the game, the understanding of what a developer wants the feature to turn out like and how you can assist them in making it happen. Furthermore, it’s about condensing all of that into concise and objectively written issue reports.

     

    The QA process on 1.1 has been going for a long time, but it has been incredibly fruitful: crushing 516 issues in 107 builds! There is still more to do however, in Experimentals we hope to only increase the stability of the game, add polish to areas and carry out some bug fixing as always!

     

    The Experimental Team comprises about 100 testers. All of these testers are volunteers who contribute their spare time to playtest the game. They are normal players, sourced from the various communities via a simple application process. Often and understandably they don’t have as much spare time to devote to testing as the QA Testers and thus there are significantly more Experimental Testers ‘signed up’ than we need at any one time. This works in everyone’s favour as it keeps the activity level throughout an Experimental Phase and doesn’t put pressure on the testers while they also deal with their personal and professional lives.

     

    After we have an update go through QA, as detailed above, it is hopefully free from major issues and each feature has had any needed major improvements and refinements carried out; the update is in a feature-complete state. However, many components of a feature may still be unpolished, such as part balancing, or the performance of newer UI on different platforms. This is where Experimental Testing comes in and assists the developers in cleaning up the remaining feedback issues.

    An Experimental Testing phase typically lasts around a couple of weeks, though it is highly dependent on the number of issues that arise and how much further development is required to reach a release state. At the end of the Experimental phase, there are still a fair amount of issues on the tracker that are still open, but it’s important to note that these issues are typically minor ones, ones that aren’t in the scope of the update or simply issues that would take too much time and resources to resolve.

     

    This time around though, things will get even more interesting after Experimental testing! Given that update 1.1 will be unlike any update we’ve seen to date in terms of widespread changes to pretty much any significant and underlying system in the game we're planning to provide an optional pre-release branch of update 1.1. This opt-in branch will run for just under two full weeks before the targeted release date of the final update.

     

    The nature and extent of the changes in the update mean that many plugins and add-ons will require refactoring, updating and at the very least a recompile. Of course modders cannot do this overnight and on the flick of a switch, especially with an update of this scope. Typically a select group of particularly KSP-savvy modders would be given access to the new update to help us find bugs, but the extent of the changes this time around is such that we feel we should open it up to everyone.

     

    The pre-release branch will be opt-in via Steam only, and won't be available via the KSP Store. We really wanted to make the pre-release branch available on all distribution channels but given the frequency of builds, the size of those builds, and the necessity for everyone to be on the latest version for testing it proved to be impossible to facilitate this on the KSP store.

     

    To facilitate discussions of the pre-release branch we’ll be opening up a temporary forum for feedback. Additionally, a separate section will be made available on the bug tracker to report bugs on.

     

    Please feel free to ask any and all questions you have!

     

     


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    2 hours ago, nosirrbro said:

    Why do you assume it would cause literally everyone at squad an entire 10 days to do?

    I'm not assuming that, it's just a figure I threw in to make things more concrete. Feel free to substitute the variable "x" if you like. The point is that Squad has surely thought about how long it would actually take and have decided that it would delay the release for longer than they would like, so they have, on balance, decided not to do it.
     

    2 hours ago, Elway358 said:

    Except that if you actually read the OP and understand what you're reading instead of just OMGIGITERLYZ, you would realize the "pre release" isn't some big experimental style bug chasing. It's pretty clearly written that this is AFTER EXPIRIMENTALS and designed for the most part to help test mods.

    Right, it's designed for the most part to help test mods. In other words, it's designed as a big experimental bug chase primarily for mods. So yes, it is a big experimental bug chase.

    Are you a mod developer? If not, then by your own argument, you have no reason to receive the release. If you are a mod developer then you can make your own inquiries, as was suggested earlier in the thread.

    And no, I won't be getting it early. I bought from the store. I am eligible to transfer to steam if I wanted to, but I prefer being able to manage the content myself.

    Edited by allmhuran
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    3 minutes ago, Snark said:

    I'm trying to understand the rationale behind people being unhappy with Squad for doing what they're doing.

    Put yourself in Squad's shoes.  Here are your options.

    1. Don't do any pre-release at all.  Ship on target date.  It has lots of bugs in it.  Result:  Everybody loses.
      • Players get hammered with bugs.
      • Then they yell at Squad for the bugs.
    2. Delay the release until the small number of experimental testers can generate the same degree of coverage that this pre-release does.  Result:  Everybody loses.
      • Players have to wait additional weeks to get their hands on 1.1.
      • Then they yell at Squad for "why is this so late."
    3. Offer pre-release to the most generously wide distribution that is technically possible, given their networking and financial constraints.  Result everybody wins.
      • The players who can download it, win.  They get their hands on 1.1.  They're okay with it being buggy because they've gone into it with their eyes open.
      • The players who can't (or don't) download it, also win.  They get 1.1 earlier and with a lower bug count than they would have if Squad had gone with option #1 or #2.
      • Then they yell at Squad for being unfair.

    I understand that it's not ideal.  I understand that we'd all like to be able to participate, and if that's not possible for technical reasons, that's unfortunate.  It may seem "unfair", but that's simply what the technical reality is.  Life is unfair.

    If you can't participate, that's too bad... but the fact that other people do participate in no way diminishes your own game experience.  And you personally are better off than you would have been if Squad hadn't done this.  Framed a different way:  would you prefer that "everybody has to wait longer to get 1.1, at a lower quality bar, so that someone else can't get it before me"?

    I think this is a great idea, and bravo to Squad for doing it.  I think the decision shows thoughtful consideration for their player base.  It's a way for them to release their product promptly and at a high quality bar.

    So they can give us the next shiny new toy they've made for us.

    For free.

    Again.

    So maybe cut them a little slack, here?

    No matter the spin you try and throw on this, nobody is "better off than they would have been if squad wouldn't have done this" other than those who purchased through Steam.

    This will not be a bug ridden alpha that's being released. it's an already majorly tested, near release version of the game. This game would be released at the same time regardless of this pre release. Again, stop with the spin doctoring.

    If they can't provide an equal experience for all of their paying customers, then it shouldn't happen period. don't try to glorify early access users as some bug finding heros because I think you and anyone with any type of sense knows better.

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    1 minute ago, Snark said:

    I'm trying to understand the rationale behind people being unhappy with Squad for doing what they're doing.

    Put yourself in Squad's shoes.  Here are your options.

    1. Don't do any pre-release at all.  Ship on target date.  It has lots of bugs in it.  Result:  Everybody loses.
      • Players get hammered with bugs.
      • Then they yell at Squad for the bugs.
    2. Delay the release until the small number of experimental testers can generate the same degree of coverage that this pre-release does.  Result:  Everybody loses.
      • Players have to wait additional weeks to get their hands on 1.1.
      • Then they yell at Squad for "why is this so late."
    3. Offer pre-release to the most generously wide distribution that is technically possible, given their networking and financial constraints.  Result everybody wins.
      • The players who can download it, win.  They get their hands on 1.1.  They're okay with it being buggy because they've gone into it with their eyes open.
      • The players who can't (or don't) download it, also win.  They get 1.1 earlier and with a lower bug count than they would have if Squad had gone with option #1 or #2.
      • Then they yell at Squad for being unfair.

    I understand that it's not ideal.  I understand that we'd all like to be able to participate, and if that's not possible for technical reasons, that's unfortunate.  It may seem "unfair", but that's simply what the technical reality is.  Life is unfair.

    If you can't participate, that's too bad... but the fact that other people do participate in no way diminishes your own game experience.  And you personally are better off than you would have been if Squad hadn't done this.  Framed a different way:  would you prefer that "everybody has to wait longer to get 1.1, at a lower quality bar, so that someone else can't get it before me"?

    I think this is a great idea, and bravo to Squad for doing it.  I think the decision shows thoughtful consideration for their player base.  It's a way for them to release their product promptly and at a high quality bar.

    So they can give us the next shiny new toy they've made for us.

    For free.

    Again.

    So maybe cut them a little slack, here?

    1. The game after experimentals will not be riddled with bugs, it will have already gone through QA and experiementals and be almost bug free. Everybody gets to have it, and then we probably get a bug fix update later

    2. Again, this extra pre-release is extra. Normally it wouldn't be here, therefore this option isn't separate from 2. 

    3. Only half get to have it early, and I remind you this is the same state that people would be able to get it in option 1. Half of the people win, the other half don't.

    4. Add a singular 1.1 non-updating pre-release on the store. Gets some bug fixes, those who don't want to use it on steam don't have to, and those on the store can have a more outdated version but still have it early if they want it, and won't be as useful for bug fixes, but still pleases them. This is the point I'm voting for.

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    9 minutes ago, Elway358 said:

    No matter the spin you try and throw on this, nobody is "better off than they would have been if squad wouldn't have done this" other than those who purchased through Steam.

    This will not be a bug ridden alpha that's being released. it's an already majorly tested, near release version of the game. This game would be released at the same time regardless of this pre release.

    It doesn't look like you've said anything that responds to Snark's argument. Snark said it would help everyone and why that was so. Prima facie, his argument seems reasonable.

    You've asserted that Snark is incorrect, but you haven't demonstrated why he is incorrect. Indeed your statement that "the game would be released at the same time regardless" actually supports Snark's argument, because it means that when the game does get released it is more likely that we get fast patches for mods (a good thing), and there is no downside because according to yourself, the game is being released at the same time anyway.

    Edited by allmhuran
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    Quick question please @Ted The blog says that you are going to open this up "just under two full weeks before the targeted release date of the final update." - which rather suggests that this date does not coincide with the beginning of experimentals.

    I assume another announcement will be made when it's available so we don't have to guess?

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    9 minutes ago, nosirrbro said:

    4. Add a singular 1.1 non-updating pre-release on the store. Gets some bug fixes, those who don't want to use it on steam don't have to, and those on the store can have a more outdated version but still have it early if they want it, and won't be as useful for bug fixes, but still pleases them. This is the point I'm voting for.

    In an ideal world I'd agree with you, but I suspect what would actually happen is that the bug tracker will generate alot of "noise" about earlier bugs that were already fixed in the latest steam build. Or people will complain that "oh you fixed this bug but it's not available on the store". Not saying you personally would do this, but I could see it happening.

    1 minute ago, Jim3535 said:

    Testing stuff early is very much a double edge sword.  Sure, you get to play with cool stuff, but bugs could break the game and render your save unusable.  People tend to get really liquided off when they lose progress.  Even if your save is still viable, the ships you have might not be. 

    I think people seriously underestimate how much having the rules change out from under you will affect gameplay.  This isn't that people get to play the game earlier (though technically it is).  They have to opt-in to give zero f---ks about their progress in the game.

    Not really a big deal. My progress is all "messing around with new features" until all the mods are updated on a new release anyway. If it saves me having to wait 3 months to properly start a new save again I'm in favour of it.

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    4 hours ago, regex said:

    Huh, that's interesting, I bought the game on the store and transitioned to Steam later.  Wonder if that's still an option for you?

    Of course you can still do that. I've just done it, and I joined back during ~0.18.2 or so.

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    ACK don't complain you knuckle heads, they are doing us a favor.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ya you will have to wait a couple weeks longer~ 1st of April?  So what most of your favorite mods will be up to date, and you won't have to deal with the bugs.  I could transfer to steam, to take advantage of this but I don't like being locked down by steam, I can't place KSP on a memory stick and take it where I want, if I do that.  Really tempted to buy a second copy but I was rather thinking of getting the EDU version rather than a steam copy.  Very sad that I can't take advantage of this since it is really cool of them to do this, but the transfer is permanent so...totally not going to destroy a permanent advantage for a temporary pleasure. 

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    2 minutes ago, allmhuran said:

    It doesn't look like you've said anything that responds to Snark's argument. Snark said it would help everyone and why that was so. Prima facie, his argument seems reasonable.

    You've asserted that Snark is incorrect, but you haven't demonstrated why he is incorrect. Indeed your statement that "the game would be released at the same time regardless" actually supports Snark's argument, because it means that when the game does get released it is more likely that we get fast patches for mods (a good thing), and there is no downside, because, according to yourself, the game is being released at the same time anyway.

    I'm not trying to "prove Snark wrong" although his "facts" are no more so than anything I've posted. Not that he ever stated they were but since you seem to need to white knight for him.

    The issue is, NO ONE should be excluded from any type of aspect of this game or development including testing/input based on where they made their purchase. The excuse that the developer has resources that are incapable of that is no fault of the users but ALL of the developers. There ARE ways that they could rectify this as given throughout this thread, but they made a conscious decision to exclude half of their paying customers instead.

    I'd love to flip the switch in the other direction and have only Squad store purchases be eligible just to see the reaction differences...I don't think anyone has to imagine how it would go.

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    1 minute ago, nosirrbro said:

    Ever heard of a save backup?

    That's not going to help people when they lose 15 hours of progress.  F2P games have figured out that people don't like losing even a single level's worth of progress in a crap mobile game.

    Just look up all the sob story posts by people that hit F9 and then figured out they did a quicksave many hours or days ago.

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    4 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

    ACK don't complain you knuckle heads, they are doing us a favor.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ya you will have to wait a couple weeks longer~ 1st of April?  So what most of your favorite mods will be up to date, and you won't have to deal with the bugs.  I could transfer to steam, to take advantage of this but I don't like being locked down by steam, I can't place KSP on a memory stick and take it where I want, if I do that.  Really tempted to buy a second copy but I was rather thinking of getting the EDU version rather than a steam copy.  Very sad that I can't take advantage of this since it is really cool of them to do this, but the transfer is permanent so...totally not going to destroy a permanent advantage for a temporary pleasure. 

    You can absolutely do that! Steam games don't actually need to use steamworks copy protection in their 'exe, and KSP doesn't as well. The thing steam downloads to you is exactly the same folder you load and unzip from KSP's website. There is no link to steam or anything.

    I'd even suggesting making an extra folder-copy for your own game somewhere, because steam tends to ruthlessly update!

    Edited by Temeter
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    16 minutes ago, Elway358 said:

    No matter the spin you try and throw on this, nobody is "better off than they would have been if squad wouldn't have done this" other than those who purchased through Steam.

    This will not be a bug ridden alpha that's being released. it's an already majorly tested, near release version of the game. This game would be released at the same time regardless of this pre release. Again, stop with the spin doctoring.

    If they can't provide an equal experience for all of their paying customers, then it shouldn't happen period. don't try to glorify early access users as some bug finding heros because I think you and anyone with any type of sense knows better.

    No, wrong headed.

    This prerelease is an unpolished version, will still contain bugs, and is primarily aimed at mod makers so that they can update their mods without us users breathing down their neck.  Oh and the fact that they will be releasing small version build increments during this period as more bugs get fixed, means that you will infact be download the game constantly.

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    1 minute ago, mcirish3 said:

    No, wrong headed.

    This prerelease is an unpolished version, will still contain bugs, and is primarily aimed at mod makers so that they can update their mods without us users breathing down their neck.  Oh and the fact that they will be releasing small version build increments during this period as more bugs get fixed, means that you will infact be download the game constantly.

    I don't really care that it is 'aimed at mod makers' and possibly a bit unpolished, I as a paying customer deserve the same privileges as you guys who had the luck and foresight to support squad less and get better privileges 

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    6 minutes ago, Temeter said:

    You can absolutely do that! Steam games don't actually need to use steamworks copy protection in their 'exe, and KSP doesn't as well. The thing steam downloads to you is exactly the same folder you load and unzip from KSP's website. There is no link to steam or anything.

    I'd even suggesting making an extra folder-copy for your own game somewhere, because steam tends to ruthlessly update!

    Did not know that :) thank You.  I usually have 3 or four installs since I like to mod them up in various ways.  This was my other concern in that I could only have on install which would be a major hassle.

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    8 minutes ago, nosirrbro said:

    I don't really care that it is 'aimed at mod makers' and possibly a bit unpolished, I as a paying customer deserve the same privileges as you guys who had the luck and foresight to support squad less and get better privileges 

    That's a bit unfair. Just because I purchased on steam does not mean I "support squad less". Yes I'm sure steam took a cut, but if the price of that is better download speeds (notice how you never see steam players complaining they can't get the updates? - that's because we are playing the update) it's one I'm willing to pay.

    Actually, that's unfair too. I wasn't even aware there was a store option, my friend showed it to me on steam and I bought it because I thought it looked cool.

    On another note, has it not occurred to anybody that the way we handle this will be a model for future releases? If it's done well, it may well be that 1.2 will be opened up to everyone - this is just a pilot. If it goes badly, we'll go back to the "bad old model" of closed experimentals.

    If I were squad, right now I would be wondering if it were worth the experiment at all, for all the squabbling it's already creating.

    Edited by severedsolo
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    3 minutes ago, Elway358 said:

    I'm not trying to "prove Snark wrong" although his "facts" are no more so than anything I've posted. Not that he ever stated they were but since you seem to need to white knight for him.

    The issue is, NO ONE should be excluded from any type of aspect of this game or development including testing/input based on where they made their purchase. The excuse that the developer has resources that are incapable of that is no fault of the users but ALL of the developers. There ARE ways that they could rectify this as given throughout this thread, but they made a conscious decision to exclude half of their paying customers instead.

    I'd love to flip the switch in the other direction and have only Squad store purchases be eligible just to see the reaction differences...I don't think anyone has to imagine how it would go.

    I think the statement that "no one should be excluded from [...] development including testing/input" is a bit odd. Nobody outside of Squad was involved in writing the code, so we're definitely excluded from development. In previous releases only a small number of people outside Squad were ever included in the testing process, and only towards the end of the cycle, and again, that's pretty normal. Why do you think that as a customer you should be involved in the whole dev/test/regression lifecycle?

    I guess maybe I just don't really understand the content of your complaint. If your complaint is, really, just that some people are going to get a newer version of KSP before you do... well, let me try to demonstrate why that's just a bit silly. Let's say the game is released on the second of April at 7am my time. That's a Saturday for me. So I can get up nice and early and play it right away for that whooooole day! (I don't work on Saturday).

    But, oh no, people in Los Angeles are 19 hours behind me, so that would be midday on Friday for them. Most people will be at work or school when it gets released, and probably won't be able to play it for another several hours. And then a few hours after that it will be bed time! So I'm going to get KSP 1.1 before they do, and I'm going to be able to play it for way longer on that first day than they are. What should we do, shake our fist at the concept of time zones for being so unfair?

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    so much drama.

    I was going to say something but it seems that it won't be of any use as any of my argument have been said by some and ignored by others.

    4 hours ago, severedsolo said:

    If I were squad, right now I would be wondering if it were worth the experiment at all, for all the squabbling it's already creating.

    I hope not. this is a good idea, it was something 1.0 was lacking. 

    Edited by Hary R
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    4 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

    Did not know that :) thank You.  I usually have 3 or four installs since I like to mod them up in various ways.  This was my other concern in that I could only have on install which would be a major hassle.

    Ye, would be terrible for people like us if KSP would be chained to steam. Imagine you'd have a super modded install, and then Steam suddenly breaks it by updating KSP... ^^'

    I guess using steam as an updater is probably even more reliable than Squad's store.

     

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    16 minutes ago, Elway358 said:

    I'd love to flip the switch in the other direction and have only Squad store purchases be eligible just to see the reaction differences...I don't think anyone has to imagine how it would go.

    If it makes you feel any better I'm not going to take advantage of this opportunity.

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    6 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

    If I were squad, right now I would be wondering if it were worth the experiment at all, for all the squabbling it's already creating.

    Squad actually used doing pre-release alpha's, I think up until 0.22 or so? The silly squabbling and people not understanding pre-release basically made them stop doing it. Kind of a 'that's why we can't have nice things'-thing, even though it was completely optional. -_-

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    6 minutes ago, allmhuran said:

    I think the statement that "no one should be excluded from [...] development including testing/input" is a bit odd.

    "BASED ON WHERE THEY MADE THEIR PURCHASE"

    Yes, it is odd when you partial quote and take my words out of context to try and continue to bait me for some type of reaction to your post. Far too childish and troll-like for me to continue with you. My issues have been clearly stated.

    Edited by Elway358
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    3 minutes ago, allmhuran said:

    I think the statement that "no one should be excluded from [...] development including testing/input" is a bit odd. Nobody outside of Squad was involved in writing the code, so we're definitely excluded from development. In previous releases only a small number of people outside Squad were ever included in the testing process, and only towards the end of the cycle, and again, that's pretty normal. Why do you think that as a customer you should be involved in the whole dev/test/regression lifecycle?

    I guess maybe I just don't really understand the content of your complaint. If your complaint is, really, just that some people are going to get a newer version of KSP before you do... well, let me try to demonstrate why that's just a bit silly. Let's say the game is released on the second of April at 7am my time. That's a Saturday for me. So I can get up nice and early and play it right away for that whooooole day! (I don't work on Saturday).

    But, oh no, people in Los Angeles are 19 hours behind me, so that would be midday on Friday for them. Most people will be at work or school when it gets released, and probably won't be able to play it for another several hours. And then a few hours after that it will be bed time! So I'm going to get KSP 1.1 before they do, and I'm going to be able to play it for way longer on that first day than they are. What should we do, shake our fist at the concept of time zones for being so unfair?

    Two weeks is significantly longer than several hours.

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