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1.0.2 - Any hope left for SSTOs?

panzer1b

By panzer1b
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Redshift OTF

Redshift OTF

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Posted (edited)
Glad that SSTOs are much more difficult. Having jet engines get to orbital velocity with only a tiny puff of RCS needed to circularise was ridiculous. As was airhogging.

SSTO's aren't more difficult. The design parameters for getting them in orbit have narrowed.

Edited by Redshift OTF
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regex

regex

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SSTO's aren't more difficult. The design parameters for getting them in orbit have narrowed.
That's true, you now need more knowledge to make one work and you can't slap together just any old thing and get it to orbit. Which is funny because, when RAPIERs were introduced to the game, I recall a bunch of people lamenting that SSTOs would no longer be some arcane art that only a few had mastered, they would now be open to the masses.
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Mikki

Mikki

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Hi All,

i ve managed to tape a 153ton Mk3 plane together (Stock 1.0.2) which is able to pull up a full 36ton Jumbo Tank in its Cargo Bay to LKO. Jeb (3 Stars) was testflying and Doddock (4 Stars) assisted him. Now they are thinking about getting back down

to Ksc in one piece, maybe somebody should have think about a rescue Pod... or two.:blush:

The lack of airbrakes and some chutes is quiet disturbing...

Its possible, but ascending is totally different then in the previous Aero...

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Arsonik

Arsonik

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Has anyone noticed that space planes fly _way_ better of you give it a bit of warp. Suddenly air intakes work a whole lot better. This is an old bug that still hasn't been fixed. Does it make me bad person if I exploit this bug?

I have noticed this many times in the past, cant say I've ever tried exploiting it though. :wink:

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Whackjob

Whackjob

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Just gonna mention that right now I'm working on a plane big enough to require the truss cage technique.

Not ready enough for screenshots yet. And I gotta put in an extra day in at the office, so I don't have a lot of time today.

Maybe tonight.

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Deutherius

Deutherius

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Has anyone noticed that space planes fly _way_ better of you give it a bit of warp. Suddenly air intakes work a whole lot better. This is an old bug that still hasn't been fixed. Does it make me bad person if I exploit this bug?

As far as I recall, sure, the amount of intake air you get per second increases. But so does the amount of intake air your engines burn in order to operate in the same timeframe. All warping really does is show you that you have more intake air in the resources, which might be a bug.

As air breathing engines operate more based on altitude and speed than amount of intake air and speed now, I somehow doubt it could be exploited to gain a significant advantage, if any at all.

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EladDv

EladDv

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well i have an SSTO that can lift 46 mT to a 75x75 orbit with enough to come back but it's original goal was to go to duna with the same payload...so it's half a failure

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Redshift OTF

Redshift OTF

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That's true, you now need more knowledge to make one work and you can't slap together just any old thing and get it to orbit. Which is funny because, when RAPIERs were introduced to the game, I recall a bunch of people lamenting that SSTOs would no longer be some arcane art that only a few had mastered, they would now be open to the masses.

That's a fair comment. I remember when they were introduced thinking they would make things a bit easy. To be fair they were the start of planes becoming more rockety, (if you can consider that a word :)).

Just gonna mention that right now I'm working on a plane big enough to require the truss cage technique.

Not ready enough for screenshots yet. And I gotta put in an extra day in at the office, so I don't have a lot of time today.

Maybe tonight.

Ah yis. Wackjob to the rescue. You're going to have to have a massive number of Rapiers I would imagine.

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hipnox

hipnox

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I managed dock this on a 125/125 orbit space station.

claymore1.png~original

claymore2.png~original

It weights 35 tons and can reach around 1440 m/s during ascent without burning up. Best Ascend profile was 45º until 10k, 20º until burnout, 45º again until reaching 125K to meet the station.

Sadly it has no weight carrying capacity, it's just a space bus.

now i need to see if it survives reentry. Thank god i remembered to add breaks.

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forenci

forenci

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So is Squad going to create a MK IV system for those of who want huge SSTOs or should I be punished for wanting an SSTO with a bigger cargo bay than the MKII? Skylon's body is as wide and as tall as a MKIII, at least, nose cone is longer though to be fair.

There are feasible near future technologies to make SSTOs possible. It's a reason why Squad was inspired to create a certain engine called a RAPIER than can do mach 4 + in atmo.

Oh yeah, it's a possibility, but there's definitely a reason it hasn't been done so far. It should be very challenging.

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Jarin

Jarin

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Just gonna mention that right now I'm working on a plane big enough to require the truss cage technique.

Not ready enough for screenshots yet. And I gotta put in an extra day in at the office, so I don't have a lot of time today.

Maybe tonight.

Looking forward to it. I may not be much for making spaceplanes myself, but I'm loving all the new designs cropping up in this thread.

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Old Foxboy

Old Foxboy

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Try to download and install this (it's totally free) simulator. There's a winged-SSTO in this program called the "DeltaGlider". If you can reach LEO with it, you'd have no trouble at all bringing almost any winged-SSTO in KSP v1.x.x to LKO.

This only means everything you knew about pre-1.0 aerodynamics, you have to throw out of the window, and learn a new one, that might not be so forgiving, but is actually closer to real-world aerodynamics.

http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/

I used Orbiter for years. The Orbiter Deltaglider is anything but real. It has unrealistic ISP. Bad example.

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SkyRender

SkyRender

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More testing with the turbojet shows that it remains a viable option even if the RAPIER is clearly superior. Take this little darling I made for single-tourist to-orbit-and-back contracts:

tourista_ssto.jpg

It has 360 liquid fuel and oxidizer reduced to 352. It can easily reach a stable orbit and return with a bit of fuel to spare. My test flight with it was quite a roaring success, with a contract complete and no casualties. Just one caveat: land in daylight, or you'll run out of power fast! A few batteries on there would fix that, of course...

EDIT: Wow, I just noticed that this is the smallest SSTO that can bring a Kerbal to orbit so far in this thread! That's gotta count for something.

Edited by SkyRender
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Frozen_Heart

Frozen_Heart

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First SSTO I've put together since 0.25. Took me about 30 seconds to put together and I piloted it badly. Also there is too much oxidiser compared to liquid fuel and so plenty of dead mass as well.

Result: Orbit easily with 600m/s to spare on the second attempt. A good pilot could probably have over 1k dV in orbit.

UJWgDPv.png

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Aanker

Aanker

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It's looking a bit different from the sausage with feathers design that's for sure.

And then the thread goes and confirms my description again with the latest entries. lol.

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SkyRender

SkyRender

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And then the thread goes and confirms my description again with the latest entries. lol.

Hey now, I design my SSTOs to look like proper planes too... But I have noticed a prevalence for making them more like rockets with extra-large fins than actual planes by many, it's true. Probably because the word has not yet spread that wings actually do something useful in stock aero now.

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Frostiken

Frostiken

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I've been thinking about this. Is it just me, or are Mk3 parts kind of biased towards airliner-style crafts? I mean, look at the Mk1 speedy fighter jets. The Mk2 sleek re-entry vehicles. And the Mk3... chubby Kerbair ship.

Wouldn't be a problem if there was anything for airliners to do in this game. We need more neat things within reasonable flying distance of the KSC so you can fly transit lines, deliver passengers, put on airshows, etc.

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Aanker

Aanker

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Hey now, I design my SSTOs to look like proper planes too... But I have noticed a prevalence for making them more like rockets with extra-large fins than actual planes by many, it's true. Probably because the word has not yet spread that wings actually do something useful in stock aero now.

Yeah, I'm fine with this as a design option, heck I would be fine actually with this design being the optimal solution, but the problem is that currently it seems to also be the only solution.

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