sdj64

The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge - 1.0 to 1.3

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I can post a pic of the ship when I get home from work.

I don't even remember how far i managed to decrease the mass as I changed the amount of fuel for Kerbin assent back and forth a lot, but I think it was around 13.5t.

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I can post a pic of the ship when I get home from work.

I don't even remember how far i managed to decrease the mass as I changed the amount of fuel for Kerbin assent back and forth a lot, but I think it was around 13.5t.

13.5t. .... almost 50% the weight of my "low mass" entry lol !!! Really impressive xD

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wait to say that until we know if I'm able to complete the challenge with it :)

I'm starting to have doubts about the "improvements" to the tylo lander, with the old one Jeb had only 20% eva fuel left when he got back to the ion scooter.

Edited by Nefrums

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Question, would this be legal as to quote:

On all of the landings, the Kerbal must be able to get out and walk (or swim!) around on the surface.

My proposal:

My mission was to have one giant ISRU ship. Then, I would send a spaceplane up to dock with it, increasing landing capabilities. What I want to do is when a surface has low G, I would use the EVA pack to rocket back up to my capsule. When on a surface with high G, I would send my lander down first, then walk out for surface ops. After I'm done, I would get back into orbit and dock again with my ISRU ship. Then AGAIN, I would land back down onto the surface with the full ship. Once I refuel, no surface ops. Then, get back up to orbit and resume.

Thoughts?

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May I use Tank Lock? It allows fuel to be toggled in their tanks using action groups.

Yes, that's fine to use.

I redesigned the ship again...

Jool Arrow Mk8 is now in Laythe orbit. I'm getting better and better at flying the K-E-K-K-J route, this time it only took like 2 hours :huh:

The Mk7 had about 1800 units of xenon to mush so i removed 3 of the 11 tanks (2100 units) in the Mk8. This time I will not have to mush fuel :)

I made the ion scooter more aerodynamic so I could decrease LF to 80 from 120 for the Laythe lander.

I also decreased LF/OX in the first stage of the Tylo lander to 180 from 200 (It will probably still work... I think... Did not really test it... at all.. :blush:)

As the Mk7 was easy to get to LKO, I decreased the fuel for Kerbin assent a bit in the Mk8, It was barely able to reach LKO.

Like the 20t Mk5 version that I completed the challenge with last time it could not get the PE out of the atmosphere in one go and had to reenter Kerbins upper atmosphere.

Looking forward to seeing this mission! Must be getting close to the absolute lowest mass possible for this challenge. Do you think 10 tons is possible?

Question, would this be legal as to quote:

My proposal:

My mission was to have one giant ISRU ship. Then, I would send a spaceplane up to dock with it, increasing landing capabilities. What I want to do is when a surface has low G, I would use the EVA pack to rocket back up to my capsule. When on a surface with high G, I would send my lander down first, then walk out for surface ops. After I'm done, I would get back into orbit and dock again with my ISRU ship. Then AGAIN, I would land back down onto the surface with the full ship. Once I refuel, no surface ops. Then, get back up to orbit and resume.

Thoughts?

Yes, it's legal because your Kerbals walk on the surface when you send your lander. Extra landings are fine (such as for refueling) even if the Kerbals don't go on the surface for them.

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Another side note. Is this allowed?:

clR4K8Q.png

Whta you saw here is the WingConnectorTypeC was rotated, and then offset into the fuselage to smoothen the edges.

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Looking forward to seeing this mission! Must be getting close to the absolute lowest mass possible for this challenge. Do you think 10 tons is possible?

There are always room for improvement, but I dont think 10t is possible with the type of design used in the low mass missions so far.

With the new smaller jets in 1.0.5 a significantly smaller Laythe lander will probably be possible. But the 2t rapier will still be needed for the kerbin assent as nothing else comes close to the efficiency of that. And there is not much fuel to be saved by not dragging the rapier to jool, as the fuel ratio of xenon is only about 4% of total ship mass to get to Jool. 3-4 of the 0.12t xenon tanks is enough to get a 8t ship from LKO to Jool. (about double that for a standard Hohmann transfer).

I'll try to finish my mission tonight, all looks good so far. The 1.8t Tylo lander did work :)

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Over 7 years, 28 landings, 3 brave Kerbals and 1 ship.

My Jool 5 missionon is complete.

- Which game versions did you use? 1.0.4

- What mods did you use, if any?

- ScanSat

- Kerbal Joint Reinforcement

- KER

- Science!

- Transfer Window Planner

- How many Kerbals are on the mission? 3

- How many launches was needed to start your mission from Kerbal? 1

- How much did your mission cost? 551 348 kredits

- Did you needed a refueling mission? No

- Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage or Passenger Cabins) for the guys during the long journey? MK2 crew cabin

- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc? Just three scanners

- Share the delta-V information too, if you tracked it! Well, see screenshots!

- Any additional note or description?

It's an ISRU entry, I have landed and done science on every biome possible. Total science: 59661

Two of the scanners were stock Survey Scanner and Narrow Band Scanner, the third ScanSat Multispectral Sensor used to make biome map of every moon.

Whole writeup is here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/136930-Science-grinder-j5-challenge!

Edited by vasco

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Over 7 years, 28 landings, 3 brave Kerbals and 1 ship....Total science: 59661...

59661 Science !!! OMG ! Congrats vasco :)

A very nice ISRU mission !!!

Lots of nice pics too :)

Edited by astrobond

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Mission completed. Ship mass 13.484

http://imgur.com/a/DSRh7

Game version: 1.0.4

Mods: Precision node, KER

Hi Nefrums :)

Just a wonderful mission, the "state of the art" of Kerbal engineering with a master pilot !!!

I of course approve this mission, and i think it will be really really HARD to find a lower mass in 1.04 version....

CONGRATULATIONS !!!

Fly safe with Valentina :)

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Just a querry, about how much delta-v would a mothership need to traverse from kerbin to jool, through all of the moons, then back to kerbin?

EDIT: Is 6500 dv enough?

Edited by origamiscienceguy

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Can I use chairs for re-entering Kerbins atmosphere once I return? (Putting chairs in a 2.5 meter service compartment and adding a heat shield and parachutes.

- - - Updated - - -

Can I use chairs for re-entering Kerbins atmosphere once I return? (Putting chairs in a 2.5 meter service compartment and adding a heat shield and parachutes. I accidentally posted this on someone's submission also, sorry.

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Here is a complete dV table from my mission:

[TABLE=width: 799]

[TR]

[TD]Maneuver[/TD]

[TD]Ship[/TD]

[TD]Engine[/TD]

[TD]dV[/TD]

[TD]Fuel[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Kerbin surface -> LKO[/TD]

[TD]Motherhip[/TD]

[TD]Rapier - Air breathing[/TD]

[TD]3703 dV[/TD]

[TD]300 LF[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]Rapier - Closed cycle[/TD]

[TD]732 dV[/TD]

[TD]520 LF/OX[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]266 dV[/TD]

[TD]513 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]LKO -> Laythe high orbit[/TD]

[TD]Motherhip[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]1130 dV[/TD]

[TD]2075 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Laythe surface -> Low orbit[/TD]

[TD]Layte lander + ion scooter[/TD]

[TD]Rapier - Air breathing[/TD]

[TD]3162 dV[/TD]

[TD]80 LF[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]832 dV[/TD]

[TD]255 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Lythe low orbit -> High orbit[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]612 dV[/TD]

[TD]183 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Layte high orbit -> Bop intercept[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]201 dV[/TD]

[TD]60 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Bob Landing[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]465 dV[/TD]

[TD]138 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Bob surface -> low orbit[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]215 dV[/TD]

[TD]62 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Bob low orbit - Pol intercept[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]127 dV[/TD]

[TD]37 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Pol Landing[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]388 dV[/TD]

[TD]113 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Pol surface -> low orbit[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]149 dV[/TD]

[TD]43 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Pol Low orbit -> Laythe high orbit[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]200 dV[/TD]

[TD]58 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Rendezvous in Laythe high orbit[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]449 dV[/TD]

[TD]130 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Laythe high orbit -> Tylo high orbit[/TD]

[TD]Motherhip[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]121 dV[/TD]

[TD]131 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Tylo high orbit -> low orbit[/TD]

[TD]Tylo lander + ion scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]807 dV[/TD]

[TD]620 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Tylo landing[/TD]

[TD]Tylo lander[/TD]

[TD]spark[/TD]

[TD]2459 dV[/TD]

[TD]202 LF/OX[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Tylo surface -> low orbit[/TD]

[TD]Tylo lander[/TD]

[TD]spark[/TD]

[TD]1996 dV[/TD]

[TD]78 LF/OX[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]EVA[/TD]

[TD]~500? dV[/TD]

[TD]3,28 Eva fuel[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Tylo low orbit -> Tylo high orbit[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]884 dV[/TD]

[TD]256 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Tylo high orbit -> Vall high orbit[/TD]

[TD]Motherhip[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]85 dV[/TD]

[TD]48 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Vall high orbit -> low orbit[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]221 dV[/TD]

[TD]64 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Vall landing[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]1134 dV[/TD]

[TD]334 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Vall surface -> low orbit[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]1112 dV[/TD]

[TD]329 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Vall low orbit -> high orbit[/TD]

[TD]Ion Scooter[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]240 dV[/TD]

[TD]69 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Vall high orbit -> Kerbin intercept[/TD]

[TD]Mothership[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]390 dV[/TD]

[TD]197 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Kerbin retro bun[/TD]

[TD]Mothership[/TD]

[TD]Ions[/TD]

[TD]1099 dV[/TD]

[TD]542 Xenon[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Disclaimer: I did not record this during the mission so I have calculated the dV based on the amount of fuel from my screenshots, so i might have miscalculated something.

Edited by Nefrums

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Just a querry, about how much delta-v would a mothership need to traverse from kerbin to jool, through all of the moons, then back to kerbin?

EDIT: Is 6500 dv enough?

That depends on if you plan to take your mothership down to low orbits of all planets or not. If your landers can get from high orbit to surface and back you will save a lot of dV for your mothership.

Getting from high to low orbit for the moons cost about Tylo: 1600dV Laythe 1200dV (half that if aerobrake is used to lower the orbit), Vall 450 dV.

Also if you have a reusable single stage lander for Vall with about 2500dV that lander is able to get from high orbit of any of the big moons to land on Bob and Pol and back. Saving lots of dV for your mothership.

Also how mush dV your mother ship can actually spend is a bit difficult to calculate as the mass of the mother ship decreases as the landers is discarded.

I strongly recommend that you bring some sort of tug that can get your tylo lander down to low tylo orbit and your kerbals back to the mother ship after the tylo landing.

With that 6500 dV should be plenty

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Incredible mission, Nefrums, especially Tylo lander, very clever organization fuel flow from first stage tanks, almost no additional mass. I did no see this trick before.

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Thanks, the jr docking port in the tylo lander did the same job as a decoupler + fuel duct, that saved me 45 kg :)

When decouplong the first stage tanks the stupid game gives focus to the detached tanks, not the lander. I solved this by having an action group for decoupling on "0" with is close to the key to change active craft ("Ã…" key on my keyboard)

To be honest i think the screenshot of the tanks being decoupled is from a failed landing atempt.. But it was the best screenshot i got of the tanks decoupling, it all happens so fast that it is hard to get a good screenshot after switching focus to the lander.

Edited by Nefrums

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I wonder if you could save mass on the Jool trip by not taking a command pod with you. If it's only needed for Kerbin reentry, then maybe you could leave it behind in LKO and rendezvous later.

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Great mission, Nefrums! Afraid I don't have time to review it quite yet but it looks amazing at first glance.

Can I use chairs for re-entering Kerbins atmosphere once I return? (Putting chairs in a 2.5 meter service compartment and adding a heat shield and parachutes.

- - - Updated - - -

Can I use chairs for re-entering Kerbins atmosphere once I return? (Putting chairs in a 2.5 meter service compartment and adding a heat shield and parachutes. I accidentally posted this on someone's submission also, sorry.

Yes, chairs are acceptable for Kerbin entry.

Just a querry, about how much delta-v would a mothership need to traverse from kerbin to jool, through all of the moons, then back to kerbin?

EDIT: Is 6500 dv enough?

If you park your mothership in orbit of Jool or a moon and send out smaller craft from there, it needs only about 3500. If you want to stop at all of the moons at a low orbit, maybe 7-8000 or more if you're not a great pilot? You can save on fuel by not sending the whole ship to the small moons, just going with your lander or using an orbital tug. You can also save dV with gravity assists if you know how to use them.

I wonder if you could save mass on the Jool trip by not taking a command pod with you. If it's only needed for Kerbin reentry, then maybe you could leave it behind in LKO and rendezvous later.

If it were not in the rules "no seats for interplanetary transfers", I have no doubt that people would not take a pod at all for the low mass challenge. You don't actually need the pod for Kerbin reentry.

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When decouplong the first stage tanks the stupid game gives focus to the detached tanks, not the lander. I solved this by having an action group for decoupling on "0" with is close to the key to change active craft ("Ã…" key on my keyboard)

For eliminating this situation probe on lander should be a root part, in this case game switch to second stage correctly after detach empty tanks. I had same problem in Jool-5 missions before, in version 0.24.

Edited by Mesklin

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I can't believe myself, but I'm gonna try this out. I am not testing anything because that's the Kerbal way :sticktongue: Instead, I just look at delta-v charts and overengineer everything. Here goes nothing.

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Well, I guess I could submit my Jool run as part of this contest. I had sent a Tug and trailer type ship configuration too Jool, with the intention of visiting every moon and returning too kerbin. The mission had its little problems but in the end I was able to visit all the moons of Jool, Eeloo, Dres, and Duna before returning home. The whole mission was run in sandbox mode though.

Mission log and screenshots of the mission:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/135614-Jakalth-finally-works-on-a-functional-Jool-mission

The final verdict of the mission is as follows:

Total mission success: 93%

Completion of Jool 5 contest: Failed...

Reason for Failure: Unable to return 2 kerbins due to failure of the Laythe plane design.

Total cost: 2,564,508 Kredits at launch

Total number of Kerbins brought along: 19

Number of parts left behind: 1 fuel module(expendable at Kerbin), 1 minitug module(expendable in Jool and Laythe orbits), 1 Tylo lander(disposed of properly), 2 laythe planes with crew(unacceptable, but crew is recoverable)

Total number of refuels: 9, using Lamp Post drive section(tug) to refuel its self and the modules

Total science collected: 0(was playing in sandbox) but all craft had at least 5 different science collecting gadgets and the crews went eva on each landing. for something to due while I waited for mining to finish.

Total time spent in space: 18 years, 238 days(around 4 weeks IRL, covering a massive 85 hours)

:Edit: Forgot to add... Only mod used was Kerbal Engineer Redux. Part wise, it's 100% stock.

Level of contest this qualifies for: IRSU level

I had to fight very low initial frame rates, several poorly judged maneuver burns, and a game/save that had become corrupted to the point of being unplayable(the corruption was my fault, not cleaning up the game since 0.24). But I made it back, and the Lamp post it's self survived the whole trip.

Edited by Jakalth

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