# [WIP][1.7.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

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@blowfish  You probably explaining yourself just fine; I'm likely just not grasping it as my background in physics is all... well.. just math basically

I -think- I have a potential solution though; rather than applying forces along the vector of suspension, I'm applying them along the normal of the raycast hit vector.  This actually results in much more appropriate simulation for angled wheels and when running into an angled surface (ramp) or the proverbial wall with front-facing wheel-derived bumpers.  So if you run into a ramp ----> /   the application of force ends up in the direction orthagonal to the orientation of the terrain ----> \ /, regardless of the orientation of the suspension (other than that they need to be pointing somewhat in the direction of the surface to even catch the raycast...but that is a raycast vs. shape-cast problem).

Going to do a bit more testing and playing with it; likely need to adjust the suspension force exerted for the angle that the suspension is positioned at... but looks like I'm making a bit more progress.

Still likely just going to re-rig the wheels and try and use the stock modules; but stuck at work at the moment and nothing better to do (well.. besides work..) than to play around with some wheel physics

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More thinking / thought on it:

Using the hit.normal and orientation of the surface hit seems to be key in properly applying forces.  Now I just need to figure out how to get the orientation of the surface from the hit position/raycast information (semi aligned to the vehicle/wheel..).

Looking like I can likely solve that problem given a bit more work and thought on it... and research/learning of a few things.  Just plugging in the code to use the straight surface-normal solved many of the edge-cases that had me worried; and if I can find how to get a properly oriented surface transform that will likely solve the rest of the problems I'm experiencing.

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it seems like a very good direction, you might end up fixing and upgrading unity wheel mechanics to the whole new level keep up good work Shadowmage

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Wheels... ughgh.. going to be a not-so-short and definitely bumpy road getting these worked out.

Got the suspension-giving-lateral-forces stuff figured out; base the force from the suspension on the normal of the surface hit.  Now angled suspension works about as it should, or at least doesn't cause any more strangeness.

Next problem to solve is to stop the thing from sliding down a hill sideways; the dynamic friction model works on movement/velocity.. meaning it can only react to existing velocity, it can't keep a velocity from diverging from zero (only make it converge towards zero).  Have not seen any attempt to solve this in any of the other 'alternate wheel collider' solutions...

Hit a bit of a breakthrough on how to apply static friction; or rather to stop the sliding down hills due to the suspension and hit normal interaction.  Now I separate the 'normal' force into those opposing the input velocity and those affecting sliding on the surface.  Currently I'm simply negating the sliding components, but it seems that I can check these vs. a friction constant to see if it would 'break loose' and start sliding.  From there dynamic friction comes into play.

So... progress...  slow and often painful... but progress.

Its already much more usable than the U5 wheel-collider component.... at least it doesn't cause things to shake, shimmy, jitter, spaz out, or launch themselves into orbit.  Oh, and it does some quite nice spinouts... friction dynamics are fun

Aiming to publish an updated testing release tonight; not too much new in it, mostly just a couple bugfixes that I feel you guys deserve to have fixed

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Does any one else have a bug with RS-68 engine cluster with more than 3 engine ? The name displayed get stuck on "3 angled" and trust displayed by mechjeb is 0. I am not using the last version of SSTU, its highly modified as well, so I would prefer if someone try this before posting it on github.

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Did a little testing to find out why docking has become a hassle. I knew there's a bug in the docking ports, but with 1.1 it's become very prominent. I did tests with a stock/sstu install and a modded/sstu install, with the exception of KJR on the stock/sstu install. Let's face it, it's a much needed mod, unless you feel like having to place struts everywhere. I launched a Saturn V in both instances with only the SSTU parts and when I docked with the LM, the focus shifted to Kerbin and the ships ended up not docking and I had no control or switching. But, going back to the space center and returning to the vehicles and redocking fixes the problem. This happens with both sstu parts and stock, so I am guessing the the docking mechanic is a bit wonky or KJR has some properties that do this.

And as @Shadowmage pointed out, HyperEdit does some odd things and it was proven correct. I even blew up a kerbal just touching another pod during an EVA. I don't even know how that happened, but it was sadly amusing, to say the least. But in the end, I did the testing the old fashioned way, just launch them into orbit to see what happens. I launched two Ares I's and a Delta with an LC2/Tank/LDE on it with an SSTU fairing (which works great by the way) and practiced docking with all of them and they all docked normally. On a side note, making an Ares I and it working as awesome as it did was worth launching two of them. But, Jeb was not impressed.

These are my experiences. And I feel it's the docking port bug magnified. However, I did not try to not use KJR on the stock/sstu install, so that maybe an issue. I'm not sure on that.

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Lots of textures missing on 1.1 downloading the latest version from github to retest. Also the soyuz is missing antenna and parachutes that were mentioned in the description and i can't get the lights to work.

Could be solved in latest release, will recheck. Finally can run 64 bits with all my favourite mods

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Does any one else have a bug with RS-68 engine cluster with more than 3 engine ? The name displayed get stuck on "3 angled" and trust displayed by mechjeb is 0. I am not using the last version of SSTU, its highly modified as well, so I would prefer if someone try this before posting it on github.

I have not personally tried out any RS-68 clusters but I believe Jimbodiah had a RS-68 cluster based craft (the one he posted just a few days ago?).  Could be a version issue, though I can't think of anything off the top of my head that has changed on those recently.

12 hours ago, ComatoseJedi said:

Did a little testing to find out why docking has become a hassle. I knew there's a bug in the docking ports, but with 1.1 it's become very prominent. I did tests with a stock/sstu install and a modded/sstu install, with the exception of KJR on the stock/sstu install. Let's face it, it's a much needed mod, unless you feel like having to place struts everywhere. I launched a Saturn V in both instances with only the SSTU parts and when I docked with the LM, the focus shifted to Kerbin and the ships ended up not docking and I had no control or switching. But, going back to the space center and returning to the vehicles and redocking fixes the problem. This happens with both sstu parts and stock, so I am guessing the the docking mechanic is a bit wonky or KJR has some properties that do this.

And as @Shadowmage pointed out, HyperEdit does some odd things and it was proven correct. I even blew up a kerbal just touching another pod during an EVA. I don't even know how that happened, but it was sadly amusing, to say the least. But in the end, I did the testing the old fashioned way, just launch them into orbit to see what happens. I launched two Ares I's and a Delta with an LC2/Tank/LDE on it with an SSTU fairing (which works great by the way) and practiced docking with all of them and they all docked normally. On a side note, making an Ares I and it working as awesome as it did was worth launching two of them. But, Jeb was not impressed.

These are my experiences. And I feel it's the docking port bug magnified. However, I did not try to not use KJR on the stock/sstu install, so that maybe an issue. I'm not sure on that.

Hmm... could you clarify a bit?   Was the docking port bug able to be duplicated with stock parts / on a stock install, or is there an SSTU part that seems to be causing it?  (Perhaps the petal adapter?)

As I did not notice any docking issues when using either stock or SSTU docking ports when launching as as single vessel (e.g. launch, decouple node, redock); did not try to RV two different vessels (don't really have the time for that kind of testing), nor did I try anything with the petal adapter.

9 minutes ago, MacLuky said:

Lots of textures missing on 1.1 downloading the latest version from github to retest. Also the soyuz is missing antenna and parachutes that were mentioned in the description and i can't get the lights to work.

Could be solved in latest release, will recheck. Finally can run 64 bits with all my favourite mods

Missing textures -- you by chance using dynamic texture whatever-its-called?  Don't.

Soyuz antenna -- I don't think there is an 'antenna' mentioned, merely a transmitter.  And no it is not yet on the parts, which is why it says (WIP) by it.

Soyuz parachute -- it is there, and worked last I tested it; the Descent Module has a parachute option in its right-click menu; no you cannot activate it by staging (by default) as the staging action is assigned to the decoupler modules.  You need to right-click the part or assign the 'deploy chute' action to an action group.

Lights -- screenshots?  Was certainly working last I tested it; it only has cabin-lighting, so basically just the windows should turn bright-ish-yellow.

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Latest github release works a lot better. No problems anymore. I do see a few errors in the log:

But so far no effect on gameplay. Really awesome stuff!!! thanks for making this!

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@Shadowmage I re-done the tests with Stock plus MJ/KJR (with Hyperedit and HangerExtender) and Stock, SSTU MJ/KJR (same other two plus CRP dependency. I created a stock ship with two vehicles to be docked in space. Stock didn't have any discrepancies and docked normally. The SSTU/Stock install did the aforementioned docking anomaly. I posted on my GitHub a log and what all was involved.

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1.1.1 released, that was fast.

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5 hours ago, MacLuky said:

Latest github release works a lot better. No problems anymore. I do see a few errors in the log:

But so far no effect on gameplay. Really awesome stuff!!! thanks for making this!

Indeed, I'm not quite finished re-adding/fixing the LanderCore parts, so there are a few textures that are missing until I can re-export those part.

3 hours ago, ComatoseJedi said:

@Shadowmage I re-done the tests with Stock plus MJ/KJR (with Hyperedit and HangerExtender) and Stock, SSTU MJ/KJR (same other two plus CRP dependency. I created a stock ship with two vehicles to be docked in space. Stock didn't have any discrepancies and docked normally. The SSTU/Stock install did the aforementioned docking anomaly. I posted on my GitHub a log and what all was involved.

Hmm... will see about doing some testing; ideally -without- KJR as that could potentially cause joint problems.

What is the best/easiest/fastest method to replicate this problem?  I did not experience any issues during my testing with SSTU parts, but I was specifically testing just docking ports.  What specific parts are you using that cause this problem to occur?

I'm not finding a github issue regarding this?  ( https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/issues )

13 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

1.1.1 released, that was fast.

Going to be at least Saturday before I can do a recompile and publish a 1.1.1 compatible version.  It -might- work as-is... but no guarantees.

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I didn't make a bug report, yet. I wanted to make sure this is repeatable before I waste your time by submitting stuff that you cannot reproduce. But, I do have a feeling it is an issue with KJR, due to the simple fact that when I first tested the last build that came out, I only had stock, sstu and KJR and that's when this happened. So, my guess is that KJR is playing havoc on your integrated docking ports. But, the funny thing is, it only happens when you launch two sstu pods up on one rocket and do a docking maneuver in orbit, like an Apollo CM/LM hard dock. I can launch two SSTU Ares I's up and dock them together with no problem.

But, I will -try- to do this without KJR and see if it makes a difference. While I'm at it, i will test to see if it's just the docking ports, or just the ones that are integrated onto your command pods. If I come up with different results, I will then post a bug report with all the information I have and logs to follow.

But a quick way to test? I did put an sstu apollo style test craft with sls parts (Orion and an LC3). Just launch and orbit it, then try and dock with it. It has nothing but stock launch clamps and sstu parts.

But, with the new patch release, We'll see if it works or not.

EDIT: KJR is the culprit, indeed. And the latest pre-release -appears- to work fine. I'll combine logs and open an issue on the tracker. But I don't know what good it'll do

Edited by ComatoseJedi

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Initial tests of custom wheel collider in KSP.  Seems like it will work okay for wheels, but there are some issues I've been unable to solve that would render it less-usefull for landing gear (constant creep on angled surfaces, lack of static friction / adherence to the surface).  Am intending to do some collaboration with lo-fi and the Kerbal Foundry guys, so hopefully between us we can get it all sorted out.

Still likely a week or two out from having this usable in game.  It is partially usable in simple setups so far, but there are still a few problems to sort out regarding the friction/adherence stuff.

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I'm not finding a github issue regarding this?

I posted it on MY github, so I could combine information to post to your github. I didn't want to just up and put an issue on your tracker if I didn't have all the information. Trying not to waste your time with needless things. But, it's there now.

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12 minutes ago, ComatoseJedi said:

I posted it on MY github, so I could combine information to post to your github. I didn't want to just up and put an issue on your tracker if I didn't have all the information. Trying not to waste your time with needless things. But, it's there now.

Aye, I've confirmed that there is a problem, but I'm still trying to narrow down the exact causes.  So far it seems to be petal-adapter related as I cannot seem to duplicate the problem without the petal adapter being part of the craft.  Still doing more testing and investigation; might take a bit to get this one sorted out.

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Aye, I've confirmed that there is a problem, but I'm still trying to narrow down the exact causes.  So far it seems to be petal-adapter related as I cannot seem to duplicate the problem without the petal adapter being part of the craft.  Still doing more testing and investigation; might take a bit to get this one sorted out.

But, how would the petal adapter with KJR cause problems when you try to dock with the craft in there? I think I better leave that to the professional(s) at SSTU. Wish it was just a simple matter of scolding one of the two between the petal adapter and KJR and tell them to play nice.

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12 minutes ago, ComatoseJedi said:

But, how would the petal adapter with KJR cause problems when you try to dock with the craft in there? I think I better leave that to the professional(s) at SSTU. Wish it was just a simple matter of scolding one of the two between the petal adapter and KJR and tell them to play nice.

KJR does some cross-part jointing, and it will join parts on either side of a decoupler to each-other.  The petal adapter is a weird breed of decoupler with its node setup, and likely not something KJR was anticipating.  Might also just be because of some of the changes to joint code in KSP or joint mechanics in Unity itself (as the problem did not exist in 1.05 that I can remember... but I never did get much time for extensive testing).

I'm -guessing- that KJR adds a joint between the internal payload and the top payload, and between the top payload and the part below the petal adapter, and between the internal payload and the part below the petal adapter.  One of these is likely not being severed properly when the top part is decoupled.

I haven't yet tried it with stock docking ports with a similar setup... but will be doing it soon so as to eliminate the SSTU ports/pods from the equation (leaving just the petal adapter as the only suspect).

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Does any one else have a bug with RS-68 engine cluster with more than 3 engine ? The name displayed get stuck on "3 angled" and trust displayed by mechjeb is 0. I am not using the last version of SSTU, its highly modified as well, so I would prefer if someone try this before posting it on github.

I also have this issus with 0.4.31-pre5 and pre6. Never try RS-68 cluster in earlier version, but at least it was working fine in 1.05.

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Initial tests of custom wheel collider in KSP.  Seems like it will work okay for wheels, but there are some issues I've been unable to solve that would render it less-usefull for landing gear (constant creep on angled surfaces, lack of static friction / adherence to the surface).  Am intending to do some collaboration with lo-fi and the Kerbal Foundry guys, so hopefully between us we can get it all sorted out.

Still likely a week or two out from having this usable in game.  It is partially usable in simple setups so far, but there are still a few problems to sort out regarding the friction/adherence stuff.

Yah, 1.1.1 wheels auto-struts might introduce another set of problems with undocking/docking mechanics as well as KIS/KAS and variable mass of parts. Hopefully those are unsubstantiated worries

Anyway it's very cool to see you collaborating with lo-fi

Edited by riocrokite

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Hello. sorry for my English .

Is it normal for liquid hydrogen tanks are emptied by themselves?

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13 hours ago, ComatoseJedi said:

But, how would the petal adapter with KJR cause problems when you try to dock with the craft in there? I think I better leave that to the professional(s) at SSTU. Wish it was just a simple matter of scolding one of the two between the petal adapter and KJR and tell them to play nice.

This might be a known issue with KJR:

Have you tried the latest KJR dev version?  Seems like the problem that he is saying he fixed is exactly what we are running into.  Will give it a try myself sometime this weekend if I can (as I don't think I'll be able to solve it on my end; at the end of the day the solution will have to come from KJR).

12 hours ago, AliceM said:

I also have this issus with 0.4.31-pre5 and pre6. Never try RS-68 cluster in earlier version, but at least it was working fine in 1.05.

Noted, have opened an official issue on it so that I can begin investigating soon.  https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/issues/299

8 hours ago, riocrokite said:

Yah, 1.1.1 wheels auto-struts might introduce another set of problems with undocking/docking mechanics as well as KIS/KAS and variable mass of parts. Hopefully those are unsubstantiated worries

Anyway it's very cool to see you collaborating with lo-fi

Hopefully it can be of use to a few people.  I'm actually setting it up under its own repository with (hopefully) a more liberal/non-viral license.

The aim is to get some collaboration on it; hopefully some people with more experience with physics (and Unity) can pitch in to help solve some of the problems I've been unable to work out.

Should have the repo setup and available a bit later today; just working on some example models and setting up the example UnityProject for consistent testing purposes.

17 minutes ago, ridik58 said:

Hello. sorry for my English .

Is it normal for liquid hydrogen tanks are emptied by themselves?

Yes, this is known as boi-loff.  Please see the previous release notes for details on how to disable this feature if you do not want it.

Random internet reference on LH2/boiloff:  http://selenianboondocks.com/2005/09/lh2-love-it-or-hate-it/

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Also ran in the docking issue. Launched two soyuz couple of days apart and docked them caused the system to go haywire. Saw this in the log, could be a KJR issue:

```[LOG 21:10:35.579] Docking to vessel Mercury 4
[LOG 21:10:35.582] [Progress Node Reached]: StationConstruction
[LOG 21:10:35.584] [Progress Node Complete]: StationConstruction
[LOG 21:10:35.587] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 0 Reputation taken, yields 0 Science
[LOG 21:10:35.587] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 0 Reputation taken, yields 0 Science
[LOG 21:10:35.587] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 1.5 Reputation taken, yields 0.6158295 Science
[LOG 21:10:35.587] Added 5.9976 (6) reputation: 'Progression'.
[LOG 21:10:35.587] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 1.5 Reputation taken, yields 0.6158295 Science
[LOG 21:10:35.589] [Progress Node Reached]: Docking
[LOG 21:10:35.589] [Progress Node Complete]: Docking
[LOG 21:10:35.589] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 0 Reputation taken, yields 0 Science
[LOG 21:10:35.589] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 0.25 Reputation taken, yields 0.1026382 Science
[LOG 21:10:35.589] Added 0.9995893 (1) reputation: 'Progression'.
[LOG 21:10:35.589] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 0.25 Reputation taken, yields 0.1026382 Science
[WRN 21:10:35.593] [PartJoint]: None of the provided nodes was valid!
[EXC 21:10:35.596] NullReferenceException
KerbalJointReinforcement.KJRMultiJointManager.CheckMultiJointBetweenParts (.Part testPart1, .Part testPart2)
KerbalJointReinforcement.KJRManager.UpdatePartJoint (.Part p)
KerbalJointReinforcement.KJRManager.RunVesselJointUpdateFunction (.Vessel v)
KerbalJointReinforcement.KJRManager.OnVesselWasModified (.Vessel v)
EventData`1[Vessel].Fire (.Vessel data)
Part.Couple (.Part tgtPart)
ModuleDockingNode.DockToVessel (.ModuleDockingNode node)
ModuleDockingNode.<SetupFSM>m__368 ()
KerbalFSM.RunEvent (.KFSMEvent evt)
KerbalFSM.updateFSM (KFSMUpdateMode mode)
KerbalFSM.UpdateFSM ()
ModuleDockingNode.Update ()
[EXC 21:10:35.613] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KerbalAlarmClock.KerbalAlarmClock.UpdateDetails ()
KerbalAlarmClock.KerbalAlarmClock.RepeatingWorker ()
KSPPluginFramework.MonoBehaviourExtended.RepeatingWorkerWrapper ()
[EXC 21:10:35.614] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KSP.UI.Screens.Flight.SASDisplay.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.614] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
VesselAutopilotUI.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.614] NullReferenceException
InternalSpace.InternalToWorld (Quaternion internalSpaceRotation)
InternalSpace.WorldToInternal (Quaternion worldSpaceRotation)
IVASun.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.615] NullReferenceException
SSTUTools.FairingContainer.setOpacity (Single value)
SSTUTools.SSTUNodeFairing.updateOpacity ()
SSTUTools.SSTUNodeFairing.updateFairingStatus ()
SSTUTools.SSTUNodeFairing.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.615] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.615] NullReferenceException
FlightGlobals.get_upAxis ()
FlightCamera.UpdateCameraTransform ()
FlightCamera.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.626] NullReferenceException
VesselLabels.DrawGUI ()
VesselLabels.OnGUI ()
[EXC 21:10:35.640] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.641] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.656] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.656] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.659] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.660] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.664] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.665] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.667] NullReferenceException
TimeWarp.Update ()
[LOG 21:10:35.667] 4/29/2016 9:10:35 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Active Vessel unreadable - resetting inqueue flag
[EXC 21:10:35.675] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KSP.UI.Screens.Flight.SASDisplay.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.675] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
VesselAutopilotUI.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.676] NullReferenceException
InternalSpace.InternalToWorld (Quaternion internalSpaceRotation)
InternalSpace.WorldToInternal (Quaternion worldSpaceRotation)
IVASun.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.676] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.677] NullReferenceException
FlightGlobals.get_upAxis ()
FlightCamera.UpdateCameraTransform ()
FlightCamera.LateUpdate ()
[LOG 21:10:35.683] 4/29/2016 9:10:35 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Removing DrawGUI from PostRender Queue
[EXC 21:10:35.685] NullReferenceException
VesselLabels.DrawGUI ()
VesselLabels.OnGUI ()
[EXC 21:10:35.707] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.708] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.714] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.714] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.715] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KerbalAlarmClock.KerbalAlarmClock.UpdateDetails ()
KerbalAlarmClock.KerbalAlarmClock.RepeatingWorker ()
KSPPluginFramework.MonoBehaviourExtended.RepeatingWorkerWrapper ()
[EXC 21:10:35.720] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.721] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.723] NullReferenceException
TimeWarp.Update ()
[LOG 21:10:35.723] 4/29/2016 9:10:35 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Active Vessel unreadable - resetting inqueue flag
[EXC 21:10:35.739] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KSP.UI.Screens.Flight.SASDisplay.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.739] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
VesselAutopilotUI.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.739] NullReferenceException
InternalSpace.InternalToWorld (Quaternion internalSpaceRotation)
InternalSpace.WorldToInternal (Quaternion worldSpaceRotation)
IVASun.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.740] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.740] NullReferenceException
FlightGlobals.get_upAxis ()
FlightCamera.UpdateCameraTransform ()
FlightCamera.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.746] NullReferenceException
VesselLabels.DrawGUI ()
VesselLabels.OnGUI ()
[EXC 21:10:35.755] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.756] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.761] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.761] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.765] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.765] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.767] NullReferenceException
TimeWarp.Update ()
[LOG 21:10:35.767] 4/29/2016 9:10:35 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Active Vessel unreadable - resetting inqueue flag
[EXC 21:10:35.776] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KSP.UI.Screens.Flight.SASDisplay.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.776] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
VesselAutopilotUI.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.776] NullReferenceException
InternalSpace.InternalToWorld (Quaternion internalSpaceRotation)
InternalSpace.WorldToInternal (Quaternion worldSpaceRotation)
IVASun.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.777] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.777] NullReferenceException
FlightGlobals.get_upAxis ()
FlightCamera.UpdateCameraTransform ()
FlightCamera.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.833] NullReferenceException
VesselLabels.DrawGUI ()
VesselLabels.OnGUI ()
[EXC 21:10:35.856] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.856] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.859] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KerbalAlarmClock.KerbalAlarmClock.UpdateDetails ()
KerbalAlarmClock.KerbalAlarmClock.RepeatingWorker ()
KSPPluginFramework.MonoBehaviourExtended.RepeatingWorkerWrapper ()
[EXC 21:10:35.863] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.863] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.868] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.868] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.873] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.874] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.878] NullReferenceException
TimeWarp.Update ()
[LOG 21:10:35.879] 4/29/2016 9:10:35 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Active Vessel unreadable - resetting inqueue flag
[EXC 21:10:35.900] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KSP.UI.Screens.Flight.SASDisplay.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.900] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
VesselAutopilotUI.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.900] NullReferenceException
InternalSpace.InternalToWorld (Quaternion internalSpaceRotation)
InternalSpace.WorldToInternal (Quaternion worldSpaceRotation)
IVASun.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.901] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.901] NullReferenceException
FlightGlobals.get_upAxis ()
FlightCamera.UpdateCameraTransform ()
FlightCamera.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.909] NullReferenceException
VesselLabels.DrawGUI ()
VesselLabels.OnGUI ()
[EXC 21:10:35.922] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.923] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.926] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.927] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.928] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KerbalAlarmClock.KerbalAlarmClock.UpdateDetails ()
KerbalAlarmClock.KerbalAlarmClock.RepeatingWorker ()
KSPPluginFramework.MonoBehaviourExtended.RepeatingWorkerWrapper ()
[EXC 21:10:35.930] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.930] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.932] NullReferenceException
TimeWarp.Update ()
[LOG 21:10:35.933] 4/29/2016 9:10:35 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Active Vessel unreadable - resetting inqueue flag
[EXC 21:10:35.937] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KSP.UI.Screens.Flight.SASDisplay.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.937] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
VesselAutopilotUI.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.937] NullReferenceException
InternalSpace.InternalToWorld (Quaternion internalSpaceRotation)
InternalSpace.WorldToInternal (Quaternion worldSpaceRotation)
IVASun.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.937] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:35.938] NullReferenceException
FlightGlobals.get_upAxis ()
FlightCamera.UpdateCameraTransform ()
FlightCamera.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.016] NullReferenceException
VesselLabels.DrawGUI ()
VesselLabels.OnGUI ()
[EXC 21:10:36.040] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.040] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.046] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.046] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.050] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.051] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.055] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.056] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.058] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KerbalAlarmClock.KerbalAlarmClock.UpdateDetails ()
KerbalAlarmClock.KerbalAlarmClock.RepeatingWorker ()
KSPPluginFramework.MonoBehaviourExtended.RepeatingWorkerWrapper ()
[LOG 21:10:36.059] [4/29/2016 9:10:36 PM [x] Science!]: <Trace> (ExperimentFilter) - UpdateFilter Done - 00:00:00.0000350ms
[EXC 21:10:36.059] NullReferenceException
TimeWarp.Update ()
[LOG 21:10:36.060] 4/29/2016 9:10:36 PM,KerbalAlarmClock,Active Vessel unreadable - resetting inqueue flag
[EXC 21:10:36.101] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KSP.UI.Screens.Flight.SASDisplay.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.101] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
VesselAutopilotUI.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.101] NullReferenceException
InternalSpace.InternalToWorld (Quaternion internalSpaceRotation)
InternalSpace.WorldToInternal (Quaternion worldSpaceRotation)
IVASun.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.102] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.102] NullReferenceException
FlightGlobals.get_upAxis ()
FlightCamera.UpdateCameraTransform ()
FlightCamera.LateUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.109] NullReferenceException
VesselLabels.DrawGUI ()
VesselLabels.OnGUI ()
[EXC 21:10:36.123] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.123] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.128] NullReferenceException
OrbitPhysicsManager.checkReferenceFrame ()
OrbitPhysicsManager.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.128] NullReferenceException
FloatingOrigin.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 21:10:36.132] NullReferenceException

```

Edited by Red Iron Crown
Put long quote in a code block.

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8 minutes ago, MacLuky said:

Also ran in the docking issue. Launched two soyuz couple of days apart and docked them caused the system to go haywire. Saw this in the log, could be a KJR issue:

[LOG 21:10:35.579] Docking to vessel Mercury 4
[LOG 21:10:35.582] [Progress Node Reached]: StationConstruction
[LOG 21:10:35.584] [Progress Node Complete]: StationConstruction
[LOG 21:10:35.587] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 0 Reputation taken, yields 0 Science
[LOG 21:10:35.587] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 0 Reputation taken, yields 0 Science
[LOG 21:10:35.587] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 1.5 Reputation taken, yields 0.6158295 Science
[LOG 21:10:35.587] Added 5.9976 (6) reputation: 'Progression'.
[LOG 21:10:35.587] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 1.5 Reputation taken, yields 0.6158295 Science
[LOG 21:10:35.589] [Progress Node Reached]: Docking
[LOG 21:10:35.589] [Progress Node Complete]: Docking
[LOG 21:10:35.589] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 0 Reputation taken, yields 0 Science
[LOG 21:10:35.589] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 0.25 Reputation taken, yields 0.1026382 Science
[LOG 21:10:35.589] Added 0.9995893 (1) reputation: 'Progression'.
[LOG 21:10:35.589] [CurrencyConverter for Unpaid Research Program]: 0.25 Reputation taken, yields 0.1026382 Science
[WRN 21:10:35.593] [PartJoint]: None of the provided nodes was valid!
[EXC 21:10:35.596] NullReferenceException
KerbalJointReinforcement.KJRMultiJointManager.CheckMultiJointBetweenParts (.Part testPart1, .Part testPart2)
KerbalJointReinforcement.KJRManager.UpdatePartJoint (.Part p)
KerbalJointReinforcement.KJRManager.RunVesselJointUpdateFunction (.Vessel v)
KerbalJointReinforcement.KJRManager.OnVesselWasModified (.Vessel v)
EventData`1[Vessel].Fire (.Vessel data)
Part.Couple (.Part tgtPart)
ModuleDockingNode.DockToVessel (.ModuleDockingNode node)
ModuleDockingNode.<SetupFSM>m__368 ()
KerbalFSM.RunEvent (.KFSMEvent evt)
KerbalFSM.updateFSM (KFSMUpdateMode mode)
KerbalFSM.UpdateFSM ()
ModuleDockingNode.Update ()

Indeed, same issue as reported here: https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/issues/298

As far as I know this is an issue in KJR that has been fixed in the most recent dev-versions but is not yet publicly available.  Will be doing some testing over the next few days to see if it is fixed with the new KJR.

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20 hours ago, ComatoseJedi said:

I didn't make a bug report, yet. I wanted to make sure this is repeatable before I waste your time by submitting stuff that you cannot reproduce. But, I do have a feeling it is an issue with KJR, due to the simple fact that when I first tested the last build that came out, I only had stock, sstu and KJR and that's when this happened. So, my guess is that KJR is playing havoc on your integrated docking ports. But, the funny thing is, it only happens when you launch two sstu pods up on one rocket and do a docking maneuver in orbit, like an Apollo CM/LM hard dock. I can launch two SSTU Ares I's up and dock them together with no problem.

But, I will -try- to do this without KJR and see if it makes a difference. While I'm at it, i will test to see if it's just the docking ports, or just the ones that are integrated onto your command pods. If I come up with different results, I will then post a bug report with all the information I have and logs to follow.

But a quick way to test? I did put an sstu apollo style test craft with sls parts (Orion and an LC3). Just launch and orbit it, then try and dock with it. It has nothing but stock launch clamps and sstu parts.

But, with the new patch release, We'll see if it works or not.

EDIT: KJR is the culprit, indeed. And the latest pre-release -appears- to work fine. I'll combine logs and open an issue on the tracker. But I don't know what good it'll do

I should have that one too, how can I tell?

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