TiktaalikDreaming

[WIP] RCS size variants and new options

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Notes for 1.1 based on prerelease;

While the conversion to RealFuels won't work until you have an updated module manager.  And RealFuels.  But, assuming stock fuels, this looks to all be working fine.

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I've made a 1.2 edition.  I really can't test how it behaves with real fuel yet, I suspect "broken" is a good estimate.  And, I can't flag things as 1.2 yet on Spacedock, so I'm not going to update there, but I've chucked it on my dropbox here https://www.dropbox.com/s/cxqpags6pkpuz21/RCS.zip?dl=0

Basically I just converted the ModuleRCS to ModuleRCSFX as per the 1.2 RCS.  Exhaust visual and audio effects are all scaled by the size of the RCS units.

4QQYAUP.png

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The 1.2 Kompatible version is now on Spacedock.  It should cascade through to CKAN fairly quickly.  I've also marked the mod as 1.0 instead of 0.X, as there doesn't seem to be much left suggesting it needs to remain as a beta/wip.  That doesn't mean I'm not open to improvements/additions.

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Have you considered baking nozzle relief into normal maps and reduce the number of polygons?

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7 hours ago, Psycho_zs said:

Have you considered baking nozzle relief into normal maps and reduce the number of polygons?

Yes.

The mod dates back to "OMG RAM" days of 32-bit KSP.  Where you had a whole CPU, but maxed out a bit under 4GB of allocation.  Where it was better to save a normal map RAM use, but having more polygons.

But that's not so true anymore.  And I've noticed KSP has been hammering my poor old CPU recently.  So, strongly considering.  After everything else is updated to 1.2 and a bunch of other crap I have to do....   But it's on the cards

 

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I used this mod actively in RSS+RO 1.1.3. Now I try to use it in 1.2.2 and have issues. First - not all RCS engines have configs for using real fuels. Second - strange effect with RealPlume. Engines seems to work constantly:
 

761665418.jpg

They are turned off all. Small and big versions can be configured to RealFuel (Aerozine50, UDMH, etc), middle version have only Monopropellant configuration.

Is it posible to make some path for RealismOverhaul and RealPlume? This is very sad I can't use the best RCS engines(

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This may sound crazy, but hear me out.

I had this idea that, rather than have so many parts, to create an RCS block module with a number of attachment points (both rectangular , round and ovel) and then have several individual RCS nozzles that could be attached to the block module.  This would allow anyone to create exactly what they need, could even have different size nozzles pointing different directions.

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13 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

This may sound crazy, but hear me out.

I had this idea that, rather than have so many parts, to create an RCS block module with a number of attachment points (both rectangular , round and ovel) and then have several individual RCS nozzles that could be attached to the block module.  This would allow anyone to create exactly what they need, could even have different size nozzles pointing different directions.

Great idea, but it leads to groving part count. Maybe it would be better to make one part with selection, like in SSTU parts?

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Just now, basila said:

Great idea, but it leads to groving part count. Maybe it would be better to make one part with selection, like in SSTU parts?

Umm, how?  I see 3 blocks, rectangular, round and oval.  would be nice if they could be resized.

And then I see  1 or 2 nozzles, also resizable

Oh, you are referring to the vessel part count.  Easy to deal with, make them physicless, so the game won't have to deal with the physics, which is where it really bogs down.  Make the blocks have physics, and, if you want, a small mod could be written to add the mass of the nozzles to the block, that mod would only be active in the Editor

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7 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Umm, how?  I see 3 blocks, rectangular, round and oval.  would be nice if they could be resized.

And then I see  1 or 2 nozzles, also resizable

Oh, you are referring to the vessel part count.  Easy to deal with, make them physicless, so the game won't have to deal with the physics, which is where it really bogs down.  Make the blocks have physics, and, if you want, a small mod could be written to add the mass of the nozzles to the block, that mod would only be active in the Editor

I actually did a mod like that before this mod.  It can work, but yeah, it increases part count for the craft and more annoyingly, it's really insanely fiddly adding on the nozzles.  At least it was back in the day (0.8ish from memory).  Things might have improved enough in the VAB UI to make it workable.  It was a PC and a mod-hosting-solution ago though, and I don't seem to have any record of it.  
Found it on the forums, only 2015 (1.0) age;

it's a bit primitive, and is most likely undownloadable due to kerbalstuff not being there.

@basila, I'll take a look.  I had a nice test install of RO+ everything way back in 1.1.3, but they were a long time getting RO into 1.2.2, and I just stopped checking if it was updated.  I don't currently have a RO install.  And all th modules for RCS changed in stock, which has probably stuffed up the RO config patch.

 

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35 minutes ago, TiktaalikDreaming said:

I actually did a mod like that before this mod.  It can work, but yeah, it increases part count for the craft and more annoyingly, it's really insanely fiddly adding on the nozzles.  At least it was back in the day (0.8ish from memory).  Things might have improved enough in the VAB UI to make it workable.  It was a PC and a mod-hosting-solution ago though, and I don't seem to have any record of it.  
Found it on the forums, only 2015 (1.0) age;

it's a bit primitive, and is most likely undownloadable due to kerbalstuff not being there.

@basila, I'll take a look.  I had a nice test install of RO+ everything way back in 1.1.3, but they were a long time getting RO into 1.2.2, and I just stopped checking if it was updated.  I don't currently have a RO install.  And all th modules for RCS changed in stock, which has probably stuffed up the RO config patch.

 

I have the entire Kerbalstuff archive, I'll take a look for it.

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The RO config is in need of updating. Seeing as stock now uses ModuleRCSFX and the 1.1 ro patch replaced ModuleRCS with ModuleRCSFX there's going to be issues. I can confirm I get the same silly effects.

I'll have a go at fixing this in the next day or so. Off to work for me right now though.

Edited by TiktaalikDreaming
stoopid phone autocorrect

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Confirmed my suspicion that removing the current RO config works better.  RO sees an unpatched RCS, converts it to hydrazine, and carries on.  I'll update with an unRO-configed version that will stop being a nuisance, and look at adding back in fuel choices later.

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On 5/23/2017 at 4:30 PM, TiktaalikDreaming said:

I actually did a mod like that before this mod.  It can work, but yeah, it increases part count for the craft and more annoyingly, it's really insanely fiddly adding on the nozzles.  At least it was back in the day (0.8ish from memory).  Things might have improved enough in the VAB UI to make it workable.  It was a PC and a mod-hosting-solution ago though, and I don't seem to have any record of it.  
Found it on the forums, only 2015 (1.0) age;

it's a bit primitive, and is most likely undownloadable due to kerbalstuff not being there.

@basila, I'll take a look.  I had a nice test install of RO+ everything way back in 1.1.3, but they were a long time getting RO into 1.2.2, and I just stopped checking if it was updated.  I don't currently have a RO install.  And all th modules for RCS changed in stock, which has probably stuffed up the RO config patch.

 

I have the file, and also all the other files you had on Kerbalstuff.  I'm going to see how it works, let me know if you want any of the other files.

And, once I disabled the "allow srf attach", attaching the nozzles was pretty easy.

But, they are huge, almost like regular rockets.  These aren't simple RCS parts, they are mini-rocket engines!  Some are small, but others are too big.

Anyway, nice to have, let me know if you want the file (or anyone else)

Edited by linuxgurugamer

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19 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I have the file, and also all the other files you had on Kerbalstuff.  I'm going to see how it works, let me know if you want any of the other files.

And, once I disabled the "allow srf attach", attaching the nozzles was pretty easy.

But, they are huge, almost like regular rockets.  These aren't simple RCS parts, they are mini-rocket engines!  Some are small, but others are too big.

Anyway, nice to have, let me know if you want the file (or anyone else)

Let me know how it goes.  I found it interesting as a concept, but a bit annoying.  If you think it's worth revisiting in 1.2.2 (or 1.3, some year), I think I'd rather redo the assets from scratch anyway.  

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I think the suggestion made earlier was good.  Rather than having to attach the nozzles, use a right-click menu to select the desired nozzle for each location.

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13 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I think the suggestion made earlier was good.  Rather than having to attach the nozzles, use a right-click menu to select the desired nozzle for each location.

The only issue there, is I haven't really got the hang of C# and the chance of me being able to code that up, is unlikely.  If you're interested, I'm happy to make the 3d assets and mess with unity and so on.

Apart from that, the mod has been updated to add in RealFuel config, independent of realism overhaul.

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15 minutes ago, TiktaalikDreaming said:

The only issue there, is I haven't really got the hang of C# and the chance of me being able to code that up, is unlikely.  If you're interested, I'm happy to make the 3d assets and mess with unity and so on.

Apart from that, the mod has been updated to add in RealFuel config, independent of realism overhaul.

OPT(?) has an RCS that's built like that - you can decide which nozzles it has during construction.  Maybe they can donate some code?

(I think it's OPT, I'm not sure off the top of my head.)

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1 hour ago, DStaal said:

OPT(?) has an RCS that's built like that - you can decide which nozzles it has during construction.  Maybe they can donate some code?

(I think it's OPT, I'm not sure off the top of my head.)

Really?  Would be nice to find out, could you see if that's it?

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37 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Really?  Would be nice to find out, could you see if that's it?

Sorry, Mk2 Expansion.  (Which I mostly keep for this part...) Here's a pic of the four variants it has:

screenshot_2017-05-26--11-03-04.png

All the same part, using what looks like a Firespitter mesh switch.

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2 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Sorry, Mk2 Expansion.  (Which I mostly keep for this part...) Here's a pic of the four variants it has:

 

All the same part, using what looks like a Firespitter mesh switch.

This one:  

????

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20 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

This one:  

????

Yep, that's the one.  Note from the part list:

Quote
  • Aerodynamic Configurable Monopropellant RCS block
  • Aerodynamic Configurable LF/O OMS block

 

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4 hours ago, DStaal said:

Yep, that's the one.  Note from the part list:

 

Well, that's Interstellar Fuel Switch plugin, seen here; https://github.com/SuicidalInsanity/Mk2Expansion/blob/master/Mk2Expansion/GameData/Mk2Expansion/Parts/Utility/RCS/RCSBlister.cfg

I'll have to grab the mu file (or look at the manual/wiki/post for IFS) to confirm how the multiple model file is built, but this is looking a lot more possible.

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Oh, and without any fanfare noticed by yours truly, KSP just went to 1.3.  Just when I was starting to forget there was an open beta.  And I accidentally marked the last mod update as 1.3 kompatible, even though I never so much as checked it didn't break everything in 1.3.

Only noticed when I went looking for Interstellar using CKAN for my dev install, which happens to be my steam auto-update install (it works as motivation to fix the mods up quickly for new versions) and there's a lot less mods available all of a sudden.

Checking now.

Super alert, finger on the pulse here.

 

 

And after removing the plugins for everything, I can confirm the mod I marked accidentally as 1.3 compatible, does in fact work fine in 1.3.

Now, I have to go update the Orion thing, and check all the other mods.

Edited by TiktaalikDreaming
Checked

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Except the manufacturer.  Categorization has changed.  I'll need to look at what the minimum config is to have a manufacturer again before that works.  But the parts all work.

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