Wich Planet/Moon do you hate the most?

[specialopsdave]

20 hours ago, Blaarkies said:

-Gilly is cheaper to land on and then return to return to kerbin, than the Mun is...but it does take learning the basics of orbital mechanics first

Sorry, but I seriously doubt that the transfer to Eve is that cheap.

Quote

-Mun, too little color? Seriously, do you ever go out at night to watch a full moon?

We're talking about close up.

Quote

-Dres gives absolutely no advantage to career mode(the asteroids around it for refueling are rendered useless because of the lack of Oberth in those parts of the kolar system), that is why it is visited so rarely(also it doesn't exist in any version of of KSP that I am aware of)

What? The Oberth Effect is the same everywhere. What are you talking about?

Quote

-Jool...just don't aerobrake there...in fact, don't go deeper than 200m into the atmosphere(there are 2 almost Kerbin sized moon zipping around Jool, let them "assist" you)

I actually agree with that.

(Please take no offense from this)

 

[Aragosnat]

Don't hate planets I never been too. But, Kerbin I don't like. Just for simple reasons I need to get away from it to go to other places.

[foamyesque]

29 minutes ago, specialopsdave said:

Sorry, but I seriously doubt that the transfer to Eve is that cheap.

If you nail it and don't need to plane-change, you can make that transfer for just 180m/s more than intercepting the Mun. Landing on the Mun from an intercept requires ~900m/s; landing on Gilly from an Eve intercept requires ~500m/s, assuming an aerocapture.

Edited August 2, 2016 by foamyesque

[specialopsdave]

2 minutes ago, foamyesque said:

If you nail it and don't need to plane-change, you can make that transfer for just 180m/s more than intercepting the Mun. Landing on the Mun from an intercept requires ~900m/s; landing on Gilly from an Eve intercept requires ~500m/s, assuming an aerocapture.

Well... You would have to have Scott Manley-like skills to do such a thing SO perfectly.

[Superfluous J]

51 minutes ago, specialopsdave said:

Well... You would have to have Scott Manley-like skills to do such a thing SO perfectly.

I will take that as a compliment, as I have those skills

[Blaarkies]

4 hours ago, specialopsdave said:

Sorry, but I seriously doubt that the transfer to Eve is that cheap.

We're talking about close up.

What? The Oberth Effect is the same everywhere. What are you talking about?

I actually agree with that.

(Please take no offense from this)

 

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in doubt it.” ― Neil deGrasse

LKO to low Mun orbit: 1200m/s
Mun landing/accent: 650m/s x2
Mun escape: 320m/s
Total: 2820m/s

LKO to Eve eliptical orbit: 1200m/s
Eve elip orbit to gilly surface: 600m/s 2x
Eve elip orbit to Kerbin capture: 200m/s
Total: 2600m/s

* These Eve values are not perfectionist, but are also not extremist. I generally end up with leftover fuel back at Kerbin capture. You don't need to be Scott Manley to do this, you just need to understand the Oberth effect and the rest of the basic orbital mechanics.

The super cheap "Eve elip orbit to Kerbin capture: 200m/s" happens because of Oberth. Eve's gravity is so much stronger than Kerbin. This leads to more opportunity to make use of the Oberth effect.

So no, the Oberth effect is not the same everywhere. It is in fact less at Dres with it's SGP of 2×10^10 m3/s2(the puny 0.115g surface gravity doesn't help it either) vs Eve's 8×10^12 m3/s2. In essense, what I am talking about is this:
- You will leave Dres(headed for Jool) with less fuel remaining, than if you did the same from Kerbin when fueling at Minmus.
* Don't do the base thing, too much effort(unless role-playing/stuff). Build a mothership lander, with ISRU onboard that holds at least 2 Rocketdyne 81ton tanks. Land the whole thing, take it back to Minmus orbit and you have 100+ tons of free fuel for 10minutes of effort.

P.S. "We're talking about close up." Dude no, unless NASA took those photos with black and white cameras, the Moon is like the grayest-colorlesstest world within a million kilometers...unless they photoshoped it ofcourse

Edited August 2, 2016 by Blaarkies

[specialopsdave]

24 minutes ago, Blaarkies said:

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in doubt it.” ― Neil deGrasse

LKO to low Mun orbit: 1200m/s
Mun landing/accent: 650m/s x2
Mun escape: 320m/s
Total: 2820m/s

LKO to Eve eliptical orbit: 1200m/s
Eve elip orbit to gilly surface: 600m/s 2x
Eve elip orbit to Kerbin capture: 200m/s
Total: 2600m/s

* These Eve values are not perfectionist, but are also not extremist. I generally end up with leftover fuel back at Kerbin capture. You don't need to be Scott Manley to do this, you just need to understand the Oberth effect and the rest of the basic orbital mechanics.

The super cheap "Eve elip orbit to Kerbin capture: 200m/s" happens because of Oberth. Eve's gravity is so much stronger than Kerbin. This leads to more opportunity to make use of the Oberth effect.

So no, the Oberth effect is not the same everywhere. It is in fact less at Dres with it's SGP of 2×10^10 m3/s2(the puny 0.115g surface gravity doesn't help it either) vs Eve's 8×10^12 m3/s2. In essense, what I am talking about is this:
- You will leave Dres(headed for Jool) with less fuel remaining, than if you did the same from Kerbin when fueling at Minmus.
* Don't do the base thing, too much effort(unless role-playing/stuff). Build a mothership lander, with ISRU onboard that holds at least 2 Rocketdyne 81ton tanks. Land the whole thing, take it back to Minmus orbit and you have 100+ tons of free fuel for 10minutes of effort.

P.S. "We're talking about close up." Dude no, unless NASA took those photos with black and white cameras, the Moon is like the grayest-colorlesstest world within a million kilometers...unless they photoshoped it ofcourse

Ah, I see! It was just a misconception on my part. I'm a chemist, not a physicist, what did you expect?  

As for the Moon coloration, I didn't understand what you were trying to communicate earlier. Sorry!

Edited August 2, 2016 by specialopsdave

[Blaarkies]

51 minutes ago, specialopsdave said:

Ah, I see! It was just a misconception on my part. I'm a chemist, not a physicist, what did you expect?  

As for the Moon coloration, I didn't understand what you were trying to communicate earlier. Sorry!

No problem, don't be sorry  
That was a lot of text from my part, but it was mostly because I recognized that before I knew the Oberth effect, I basically thought the same thing...anyway, it took me weeks before I fully grasped how Oberth worked(I really, really didn't want to believe it at first). I hope this helped speed up that process for you. A good experiment is getting a craft in orbit, then adding maneuver nodes to achieve some goal(don't actually use any fuel).
- Try to reach Minmus intercept with 5+ nodes, sum all the delta-v requirements that the nodes show. Compare this with going straight to Minmus with one burn from LKO.
- Get a Mun intercept(fidling with the node to get good timing: you should be able to adjust your Mun Pe by just moving the node back and forth). Set a future maneuver node to capture into Mun orbit. Try this twice: High Pe at Mun like 1 000km, and compare that to doing the same thing with your Mun Pe at 7km(remember to end at a constant low orbit - to keep thing fair)

Edited August 2, 2016 by Blaarkies

[specialopsdave]

Just now, Blaarkies said:

No problem  
That was a lot of text from my part, but it was mostly because I recognized that before I knew the Oberth effect, I basically thought the same thing...anyway, it took me weeks before I fully grasped how Oberth worked(I really, really didn't want to believe it at first). I hope this helped speed up that process for you. A good experiment is getting a craft in orbit, then adding maneuver nodes to achieve some goal(don't actually use any fuel).
- Try to reach Minmus intercept with 5+ nodes, sum all the delta-v requirements that the nodes show. Compare this with going straight to Minmus with one burn from LKO.
- Get a Mun intercept(fidling with the node to get good timing: you should be able to adjust your Mun Pe by just moving the node back and forth). Set a future maneuver node to capture into Mun orbit. Try this twice: High Pe at Mun like 1 000km, and compare that to doing the same thing with your Mun Pe at 7km(remember to end at a constant low orbit - to keep thing fair)

I know how to USE the Oberth effect, just not the exact numbers for each SOI. I just eyeball it, and it seems to work. In other words, I know that: Speed up at low point means higher high point, vice versa. (Yes, I know I'm over simplifying it.)

[X-SR71]

Moho. I do hate it. No matter how much dv I take, I always fall short.

I believe it takes infinite dv to get there and back.

[GoSlash27]

Right now, Minmus is my sworn enemy.

 I'm trying to pad out my tech tree as rapidly as possible in career in anticipation of the first window to Duna. Minmus offers a trove of easy science points, but the travel time is prohibitive. Must resist the urge...

 

[Kermanzooming]

I hate Kerbin; although I have tried countless times, I have been unable to complete the Kerbin ground and low level flight contracts when the sites where far away from KSC.

[Aragosnat]

4 minutes ago, Kermanzooming said:

I hate Kerbin; although I have tried countless times, I have been unable to complete the Kerbin ground and low level flight contracts when the sites where far away from KSC.

I know that feeling. Till you get a plane that works it is annoying.... I do have a plane that is steady to fly and can reach half way around Kerbin.. Just not sure what tech level you have.

[Kermanzooming]

 

52 minutes ago, Aragosnat said:

I know that feeling. Till you get a plane that works it is annoying.... I do have a plane that is steady to fly and can reach half way around Kerbin.. Just not sure what tech level you have.

I have unlocked basically all the tech tree, but I have avoided all flight related technology.

I'm so bad at planes that I avoid them, which makes me have no practice with them which makes me bad at it...

It's something I should really devote time to, I definitely could use a SSTO to build my Duna ship.

[Aragosnat]

 

11 minutes ago, Kermanzooming said:

 

I have unlocked basically all the tech tree, but I have avoided all flight related technology.

I'm so bad at planes that I avoid them, which makes me have no practice with them which makes me bad at it...

It's something I should really devote time to, I definitely could use a SSTO to build my Duna ship.

Yeah. I got up to panthers. If I felt like trying I would upload it to let you play around in sandbox. Just really tired right now.

[Hodari]

59 minutes ago, Aragosnat said:

I know that feeling. Till you get a plane that works it is annoying...

Even when you do get a plane that works, it's annoying since you have to spend half an hour or more actually flying it there, with 99% of that time being spent just making small adjustments to your throttle or pitch to keep it flying at the right speed and altitude(since SAS is almost useless for this and it's even worse if you try to use timewarp at all). 

As for which planet I hate the most though, gotta go with Moho.  Getting at least some kind of encounter with it isn't TOO bad, but actually getting into orbit(let alone LANDING on it) always seems to take an insane amount of dV.  I know that if you encounter it in just the right place and right angle, it will need much less dV, but never managed to get that perfect an encounter.   Next time I get a career mode up to the point where I'm actually trying to go there, I might just make a refueling base on Gilly first and see if that works any better.

[Sereneti]

"hate" - none....
there are some easy-going planets, and some challenging-planets.

but hate- i hate non of them.

 

6 hours ago, Kermanzooming said:

 

I have unlocked basically all the tech tree, but I have avoided all flight related technology.

I'm so bad at planes that I avoid them, which makes me have no practice with them which makes me bad at it...

It's something I should really devote time to, I definitely could use a SSTO to build my Duna ship.

you can build/use a rocket-SSTO...

[Kermanzooming]

1 hour ago, Sereneti said:

you can build/use a rocket-SSTO...

You are completely right, I could build a SpaceX-like re-usable rocket... So many things to try and so few time...

[Sereneti]

41 minutes ago, Kermanzooming said:

You are completely right, I could build a SpaceX-like re-usable rocket... So many things to try and so few time...

i can give you one
(round about 30t payload, parachute landing ...)

[Kermanzooming]

5 minutes ago, Sereneti said:

i can give you one
(round about 30t payload, parachute landing ...)

Do you have problems with storage space, like Elon Musk has? 

[storm_soldier2377]

On 8/1/2016 at 7:05 AM, Blaarkies said:

-Gilly is cheaper to land on and then return to return to kerbin, than the Mun is...but it does take learning the basics of orbital mechanics first

I can believe you can land on Gilly for less dV than needed to land on the Mun, but I doubt you can return under the same budget. It only takes 270 m/s to return to Kerbin from Mun orbit while returning from Gilly will cost at least as much dV that it took to get to Eve.

[foamyesque]

6 hours ago, storm_soldier2377 said:

I can believe you can land on Gilly for less dV than needed to land on the Mun, but I doubt you can return under the same budget. It only takes 270 m/s to return to Kerbin from Mun orbit while returning from Gilly will cost at least as much dV that it took to get to Eve.

 

And another ~500m/s to get to Mun orbit from Mun surface, is the thing.

19 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

Right now, Minmus is my sworn enemy.

 I'm trying to pad out my tech tree as rapidly as possible in career in anticipation of the first window to Duna. Minmus offers a trove of easy science points, but the travel time is prohibitive. Must resist the urge...

 

 

Depending on how much you've got in funds, the solution is to park a half-dozen Minmus missions in LKO and transfer them one after the other in the same Minmus window. If you're able to afford it you can mine all the science in one shot, losing just the twelve days of the transfer orbit.

[GoSlash27]

25 minutes ago, foamyesque said:

 

And another ~500m/s to get to Mun orbit from Mun surface, is the thing.

 

Depending on how much you've got in funds, the solution is to park a half-dozen Minmus missions in LKO and transfer them one after the other in the same Minmus window. If you're able to afford it you can mine all the science in one shot, losing just the twelve days of the transfer orbit.

Actually, my math says 18 days, but yeah... I'll have to mop up the other available science before committing to that chunk of time... if it's available.

 I like to reuse the equipment and cycle kerbonauts through as part of the training rotation. That makes blanketing Minmus very difficult.

Best,
-Slashy

Edited August 3, 2016 by GoSlash27

[Blaarkies]

12 hours ago, storm_soldier2377 said:

I can believe you can land on Gilly for less dV than needed to land on the Mun, but I doubt you can return under the same budget. It only takes 270 m/s to return to Kerbin from Mun orbit while returning from Gilly will cost at least as much dV that it took to get to Eve.

 

On 8/2/2016 at 8:39 AM, Blaarkies said:

LKO to low Mun orbit: 1200m/s
Mun landing/accent: 650m/s x2
Mun escape: 320m/s
Total: 2820m/s

LKO to Eve eliptical orbit: 1200m/s
Eve elip orbit to gilly surface: 600m/s 2x
Eve elip orbit to Kerbin capture: 200m/s
Total: 2600m/s

Previous comment on the same page.
I have achieved these dv scores many times before, but I will admit that some transfer windows WILL be more expensive than a Mun land/return AND it takes much more effort and a bit more time to plan the Eve then Gilly intercept...rough guess, about 30% of the transfers to Eve/Gilly will be more expensive, while perfect transfers makes the Mun landings look absurdly expensive

 

 

[KerikBalm]

23 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

Actually, my math says 18 days, but yeah... I'll have to mop up the other available science before committing to that chunk of time... if it's available.

So spend a little extra dV, and cut the trip time down to 5 days there, 5 days back... heck, 4 day transfers aren't soo expensive either

On 8/3/2016 at 8:50 AM, Hodari said:

Even when you do get a plane that works, it's annoying since you have to spend half an hour or more actually flying it there, with 99% of that time being spent just making small adjustments to your throttle or pitch to keep it flying at the right speed and altitude(since SAS is almost useless for this and it's even worse if you try to use timewarp at all).

Well, if you're using turbofans... yes. I would instead suggest Turbo-Ramjets... and don't even bother to try and keep flying level at >20,000 meters and >1,000 m/s... try climbing ballistic trajectories. If the first arc doesn't take you far enough, after apoapsis, maintain positive pitch until you start to climb again, and go for another suborbital ballistic hop... skipping off the upper atmosphere.

It works OK with panthers in afterburner mode, but turboramjets are really what you want. Rapiers can be good too, but I'm not sure if their better "ballistic performance" offsets their higher fuel consumption - also they don't have any alternator which may or may not matter.

The right panther design can give you some decent speed even without afterburner:

Trips to distant locations on kerbin don't take soo long at 670 m/s.. Ie, a kilometer every 1.5 seconds.

But if you actually want to get completely to the other side of kerbin, its best to go ballistic.