Planes unflyable.

[DunaManiac]

Hello, does anyone know how to fix this bug/fontrol issue ? I can't pitch up. I've tried to relaunch planes, restart it, reload, change the preset?

Edited February 10, 2018 by DunaManiac

[Socraticat]

Why don't you post this to the bugtracker?

[Arch3rAc3]

Hey.

Ok, before posting it to the bug tracker, could you just clear some things? :

Is it happening all the time on all saves, or in a single save/single aircraft file only?

Are you sure your trims aren't set? Try resetting the trim inputs.

Is it only pitching up the problem? Check if your controller is working properly if so, and, again, try another aircraft in another save (preferably one of the default aircrafts, as this will rule out any flap/building errors that may be pitching your aircraft the other way).

 

And lastly, in the control input indicator (left bottom of the screen), can you see the arrow moving when you pitch up? If not, does it move in any other directions? Check both yaw and roll if they are moving as well.

Maybe you checked all of this before creating the thread, but just to be sure I feel like I have to ask. The least we need right now are threads and bug reports flooding the lists when they're actually not a bug/problem with the code/game.

Thanks.

[Socraticat]

12 hours ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

The least we need right now are threads and bug reports flooding the lists when they're actually not a bug/problem with the code/game.

I had similar trim issues until reading the forums. Left Bumper+ Left stick to reset, yes?

Now, I get that we don't want to flood the board with bogus bug reports, but maybe...

If everyone is having the same problems with the control scheme, it might be a bug. (Two commands mapped for simultaneous but not at all alike funtions? That's a bug).

So my point is, this is a bug. I know you don't want to see multiple reports, bit we didn't want multiple bugs.

 Before anyarguments about semantics, find a more satisfying definition of bug than this, then we can have discussion:

A software bug is an error, flaw, failure or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways.

(OP is encountering an error/flaw that produces unintended results)

[DunaManiac]

I wasn't sure if this was a control issue or bug

[Trog2006]

I believe it to be a bug too. I have control issues. At first I thought MechJeb was bugged, so I reinstalled that. Then I tried flying manually.

With SAS turned on and without touching the controls my (tried and tested cargo rocket) arced and crashed in the same way as it did with SAS turned off. mechJeb produced the same results, a clockwise circled arc that eventually ditched the craft.

I am going through the last few Mods I Installed to see if a recent install has caused the issue.

---

I eventually resolved my issue with a system restart, no uninstalls were required.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Trog2006
Please withdraw my report...I don't want to cause any further issues regarding what is or isn't a bug.

[Arch3rAc3]

7 hours ago, Joessep Kerman said:

I had similar trim issues until reading the forums. Left Bumper+ Left stick to reset, yes?

Now, I get that we don't want to flood the board with bogus bug reports, but maybe...

If everyone is having the same problems with the control scheme, it might be a bug. (Two commands mapped for simultaneous but not at all alike funtions? That's a bug).

So my point is, this is a bug. I know you don't want to see multiple reports, bit we didn't want multiple bugs.

 Before anyarguments about semantics, find a more satisfying definition of bug than this, then we can have discussion:

A software bug is an error, flaw, failure or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways.

(OP is encountering an error/flaw that produces unintended results)

I believe you missed my point. I absolutely favor the reports of every bug present in the game. If there are 1000 bugs, they should all be reported. But let's be sure it's not a problem on the user end first.

I wanted him to check everything to make sure where the problem lies. If he just says that he can't pitch up in the bug tracker, it won't help much. There are many reasons why he might not be able to pitch up, and I'm trying to help by ruling it out.

Secondly, I never said the trim with the modifier is not a bug. I've actually mentioned otherwise, as I've already report this conflict in the bug tracker: https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/17242 and in the forums 

#3 here ^

This trim conflict might be causing people to trim their craft while trying to control the throttle and attitude at the same time. But not being able to pitch up with full down trim is not a bug, it's a feature. It would be a bug if he could pitch up alright.

Hopefully, made myself more clear now.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Arch3rAc3

[Socraticat]

It may have been intended as a feature. It plays like a bug.

There is no option to change the button mapping, so you are stuck with a clunky interface. 

You say "feature", I say "Bug". I didn't have this problem in the previous version. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Joessep Kerman
I also didn't misunderstand you. I repeat: *you* say feature, I say...

[Arch3rAc3]

5 hours ago, Joessep Kerman said:

It may have been intended as a feature. It plays like a bug.

There is no option to change the button mapping, so you are stuck with a clunky interface. 

You say "feature", I say "Bug". I didn't have this problem in the previous version. 

You keep misinterpreting me over and over again.

Having the conflict with the trim key - as I've reported on both links already (which apparently you haven't even checked) - IS A BUG! I said myself it was and you keep saying "You say "feature"[...],". No, I don't say "feature", I said the conflict is a "BUG"...

Now, having the trim working as a trim should be working is not a bug. Play Flight Simulator X (or any other flight simulator for that matter) for example and trim your aircraft all the way up (for a pitch down). It will be harder to pitch up pulling on the stick, obviously, because aero forces are, basically, pushing the plane attitude downwards.

Having the trim working is not a bug! Having a key conflict on the other hand, assuming THIS is what is going on with DunaManiac game and not ANYthing else - which I was trying to figure out in my initial comment - IS A BUG.

Not too hard, eh?

(Edit - if this unecessary argument keeps going on, I'm afraid we will be moving away from the thread in question and I'll refuse to reply back to you. I'm trying to figure out if Duna is having that problem due to anything else other than the already reported trim conflict bug, because if so, there may be another - yet unknown - bug with the code, and not having to explain to you why the trim actually trimming the aircraft is not a bug).

Edited February 11, 2018 by Arch3rAc3

[Socraticat]

On 2/11/2018 at 3:41 AM, Arch3rAc3 said:

You keep misinterpreting me over and over again.

Having the conflict with the trim key - as I've reported on both links already (which apparently you haven't even checked) - IS A BUG! I said myself it was and you keep saying "You say "feature"[...],". No, I don't say "feature", I said the conflict is a "BUG"...

Now, having the trim working as a trim should be working is not a bug. Play Flight Simulator X (or any other flight simulator for that matter) for example and trim your aircraft all the way up (for a pitch down). It will be harder to pitch up pulling on the stick, obviously, because aero forces are, basically, pushing the plane attitude downwards.

Having the trim working is not a bug! Having a key conflict on the other hand, assuming THIS is what is going on with DunaManiac game and not ANYthing else - which I was trying to figure out in my initial comment - IS A BUG.

Not too hard, eh?

(Edit - if this unecessary argument keeps going on, I'm afraid we will be moving away from the thread in question and I'll refuse to reply back to you. I'm trying to figure out if Duna is having that problem due to anything else other than the already reported trim conflict bug, because if so, there may be another - yet unknown - bug with the code, and not having to explain to you why the trim actually trimming the aircraft is not a bug).

So you're saying it should go in the BugTracker?

[Arch3rAc3]

On 12/02/2018 at 2:38 PM, Joessep Kerman said:

So you're saying it should go in the BugTracker?

What should go?

If the problem is he trimming the aircraft (without knowing) because he's holding LB/L1 to control the throttle while trying to turn at the same time, yes, as I've already reported here: https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/17242 

If the problem is something else - which I was trying to figure out - then most likely, no.

He saying that the craft doesn't pitch up is just vague at most. The problem/bug that must be fixed lies in the cause, not in the consequence, that's why I wouldn't want him to flood the bugtracker by simply saying "Can't pitch up". There's more he can do, as I mentioned in my first reply here, to rule out the problem to be fixed.

(What he could do, assuming he checked to make sure it was the trim causing the craft not to pitch up, is to access this link and upvote the report to show Squad staff more people are being affected by this key conflict and might make use of a quick toggle option to switch between having or not having to use a modifier [LB/L1] to fine control the throttle.

So, to clarify, one wouldn't have to hold LB to control the throttle slowly, and therefore wouldn't accidentally trim the craft in flight).

Edited February 13, 2018 by Arch3rAc3

[DunaManiac]

Maybe we should tell squad just so they know.

[Arch3rAc3]

15 hours ago, DunaManiac said:

Maybe we should tell squad just so they know.

If you are sure the craft is not trimmed - and it also happens with every craft - you might have to just report it like this.

Try giving the most information possible, though. This seems like a new bug.

[DunaManiac]

8 hours ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

If you are sure the craft is not trimmed - and it also happens with every craft - you might have to just report it like this.

Try giving the most information possible, though. This seems like a new bug.

I'm on cursor preset, luckily you can fix it by holding down cursor and left bumper and turning the cursor stick to the left.

[Arch3rAc3]

23 hours ago, DunaManiac said:

I'm on cursor preset, luckily you can fix it by holding down cursor and left bumper and turning the cursor stick to the left.

That's for trimming. You're fixing it by trimming to the left, but it doesn't make much sense for me when a left trim allow you to pitch up.

Try holding the left bumper and clicking on the left analogue (LS/L3). This should reset all trim.

Also, check if the trim is centered on the controls surface indicator, bottom left of the screen. Check for any blue arrows.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Arch3rAc3

[DunaManiac]

Thank you, the one I sad fixed it.

31 minutes ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

That's for trimming. You're fixing it by trimming to the left, but it doesn't make much sense for me when a left trim allow you to pitch up.

Try holding the left bumper and clicking on the left analogue (LS/L3). This should reset all trim.

Also, check if the trim is centered on the controls surface indicator, bottom left of the screen. Check for any blue arrows.