Need help at real fuels, please!

[How to: KSP]

Hello there! I installed the real fuels app for the real solar system mod and man, there are DIVERSE amounts of types of liquids and fuels and I have no idea how to start. Can someone please help me by giving me a fuel combo to start with? Thank you in advance!

Real fuels

@NathanKell

Edited September 7, 2018 by How to: KSP

[linuxgurugamer]

11 minutes ago, How to: KSP said:

Hello there! I installed the real fuels app for the real solar system mod and man, there are DIVERSE amounts of types of liquids and fuels and I have no idea how to start. Can someone please help me by giving me a fuel combo to start with? Thank you in advance!

Real fuels

@NathanKell

Try posting  in the Real Fuels thread

[How to: KSP]

1 minute ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Try posting  in the Real Fuels thread

Thanks for your amazing response! I shall do that

[Zeiss Ikon]

My experience with Real Fuels is in conjunction with RSS/RO/RP-1 -- the engines provided by the recommended support mods are (at least within what I've seen) historical, so each engine has its propellant mix set by the engine and you can auto-fill a tank by right clicking on it and selecting the correct set of propellants.  For instance, if I'm building a rocket that uses kerosene/LOX in the booster, I size the tank initially (using procedural tanks, or select the tank I want from the pre-built ones), install the engine, and then right click the tank, and I'll see something like "Kerosene 48.3%/Liquid Oxygen 51.7%" on one option line, I might also see "MMH 50%/NTO 50%" on another line (for RCS or OMS thrusters) and "100% hydrazine" on a third (for the final satellite's station keeping thrusters.

If you're creating your own engines (a process I'm not familiar with, because RO doesn't support it as far as I know) you'd have to do some basic research on what propellants do what -- for instance, kerosene and lox are pretty simple, you just have to get the balance right (usually a few percent fuel-rich relative to a "perfect" mix, both to favor carbon monoxide in the exhaust and to keep the flame temperature lower), but if you want to use something like kerosene and HTP (historical, used in the British Black Knight) you'll have to do a little more digging to find the ratios.

There are bunches and bunches of propellants available, but out of all those, only a dozen or so liquids and 3-4 families of solid propellants have ever seen use outside a lab or perhaps a hot fire cell -- just because they don't offer much if any advantage in performance, and they're more hazardous.  As with the Redstone family. originally built to use ethanol just like the A-4 -- Juno I and Juno II used an engine upgraded to run on Hydyne (a mix of UDMH and diethylenetriamine) to get higher performance for the first couple satellite launches in the US, but for Mercury/Redstone, NASA decided to forego the performance gain in favor of a fuel that was safer for the astronaut and ground crew in case of an accident, and went back to ethanol.  Generally, now, there are kerosene/LOX, used mainly for boosters, hypergolics (MMH/NTO is very common) for upper stages because they don't boil away over reasonable periods like oxygen does, hydrogen/oxygen for the deep pockets programs where having a stage the size of a large building isn't considered a disadvantage, and monopropellants (currently almost always hydrazine or occasionally a hydrazine derivative), used for the simplicity of single-line plumbing.

[How to: KSP]

19 hours ago, Zeiss Ikon said:

My experience with Real Fuels is in conjunction with RSS/RO/RP-1 -- the engines provided by the recommended support mods are (at least within what I've seen) historical, so each engine has its propellant mix set by the engine and you can auto-fill a tank by right clicking on it and selecting the correct set of propellants.  For instance, if I'm building a rocket that uses kerosene/LOX in the booster, I size the tank initially (using procedural tanks, or select the tank I want from the pre-built ones), install the engine, and then right click the tank, and I'll see something like "Kerosene 48.3%/Liquid Oxygen 51.7%" on one option line, I might also see "MMH 50%/NTO 50%" on another line (for RCS or OMS thrusters) and "100% hydrazine" on a third (for the final satellite's station keeping thrusters.

If you're creating your own engines (a process I'm not familiar with, because RO doesn't support it as far as I know) you'd have to do some basic research on what propellants do what -- for instance, kerosene and lox are pretty simple, you just have to get the balance right (usually a few percent fuel-rich relative to a "perfect" mix, both to favor carbon monoxide in the exhaust and to keep the flame temperature lower), but if you want to use something like kerosene and HTP (historical, used in the British Black Knight) you'll have to do a little more digging to find the ratios.

There are bunches and bunches of propellants available, but out of all those, only a dozen or so liquids and 3-4 families of solid propellants have ever seen use outside a lab or perhaps a hot fire cell -- just because they don't offer much if any advantage in performance, and they're more hazardous.  As with the Redstone family. originally built to use ethanol just like the A-4 -- Juno I and Juno II used an engine upgraded to run on Hydyne (a mix of UDMH and diethylenetriamine) to get higher performance for the first couple satellite launches in the US, but for Mercury/Redstone, NASA decided to forego the performance gain in favor of a fuel that was safer for the astronaut and ground crew in case of an accident, and went back to ethanol.  Generally, now, there are kerosene/LOX, used mainly for boosters, hypergolics (MMH/NTO is very common) for upper stages because they don't boil away over reasonable periods like oxygen does, hydrogen/oxygen for the deep pockets programs where having a stage the size of a large building isn't considered a disadvantage, and monopropellants (currently almost always hydrazine or occasionally a hydrazine derivative), used for the simplicity of single-line plumbing.

May I contact you because I still don't understand. When are you available so we can arrange a meeting together, please

[Zeiss Ikon]

I'd suggest looking on YouTube for RP-0 tutorial videos -- Nathan Kell has a long series, and though I haven't watched all of them, I'm pretty sure he covers how RealFuels works in RP-0 in one of the early ones (RP-1 is mostly the same, only with a more sensible tech tree, astronaut training, and more facility upgrade steps -- plus built around Kerbal Contruction Time and Test Flight mods).

In very short, though, the point of Real Fuels is so, in Realism Overhaul, you can emulate real engines with their real fuels, and get real performance (i.e. the RS-25, aka Space Shuttle Main Engine, has the correct Isp, thrust, and rated burn time, and its upgrades have the correct improvements, and its exhaust flame is almost invisible, as it should be).  This also ties into RealPlume to give the right look to, say, alcohol burners vs. kerosene burners vs. hypergolics vs. hydrogen burners.  In general, I'd suggest using Realism Overhaul as a complete ensemble, including Real Solar System, RP-0 or RP-1, Kerbal Construction Time, Ferram Aerospace, TAC Life Support, and the supporting cast of parts mods which include RealFuels and RealPlume.

[How to: KSP]

On 9/9/2018 at 1:28 AM, Zeiss Ikon said:

I'd suggest looking on YouTube for RP-0 tutorial videos -- Nathan Kell has a long series, and though I haven't watched all of them, I'm pretty sure he covers how RealFuels works in RP-0 in one of the early ones (RP-1 is mostly the same, only with a more sensible tech tree, astronaut training, and more facility upgrade steps -- plus built around Kerbal Contruction Time and Test Flight mods).

In very short, though, the point of Real Fuels is so, in Realism Overhaul, you can emulate real engines with their real fuels, and get real performance (i.e. the RS-25, aka Space Shuttle Main Engine, has the correct Isp, thrust, and rated burn time, and its upgrades have the correct improvements, and its exhaust flame is almost invisible, as it should be).  This also ties into RealPlume to give the right look to, say, alcohol burners vs. kerosene burners vs. hypergolics vs. hydrogen burners.  In general, I'd suggest using Realism Overhaul as a complete ensemble, including Real Solar System, RP-0 or RP-1, Kerbal Construction Time, Ferram Aerospace, TAC Life Support, and the supporting cast of parts mods which include RealFuels and RealPlume.

I got it working, thanks!