0.17 Planet Discussion

[ModernArc]

If Eve has 5x earth's air viscosity, I wonder if you can land even without parachutes? It at the least, with very few parachutes.

I'm sure when it's finally out we'll know whether or not air breathing engines work on it.'

If they do, it'll actually be possible to lift back off from it.

If they don't, it will be tremendously difficult.

I remember on Orbiter, the pressure was so great on Venus that rockets couldn't even function.

On the other hand, as long as the atmosphere isn't corrosive, you could take off with propellers.. now there's a funny idea.

Well, it would be harder to land on Eve without parachutes because there is more gravity than Kerbin. Yea, the air viscosity (thickness, thinness) would cause the parachutes to slow you down much faster.

[Omega500]

I think possibly the hardest mission profile will be landing on Eve and returning for that exact reason. Either that or getting to Moho. If it's as close to the Sun as Nova says it'll be nigh on impossible to get to without some crazy parts.

I was thinkign the same. I personally carn't wait to see how Scott Manley solves this problem. (http://www.youtube.com/user/szyzyg?feature=g-all-u) that guy in case anyone dont know

[zapy97]

i am a simppleton so deep space exploration isn't my thing i am just gunna continue working on my oceanliner

[Mode7]

If the air-breathing motors won't work due to the lack of oxygen in the air, maybe we'll get an alternate fuel that will work. Hydrazine burns nicely in CO2, for example.

That's a cool idea. Maybe they could make some sort of option on the existing fuel tanks to change what kind of fuel is in them.

[tiger336]

me i would get to Jool with the kethan mod and i would like a ballon to be added to that so i could suck kethane right out of the air

[Zool]

I wonder if you could come up with a trajectory that aerobrakes through eve's atmosphere to achieve a slower flyby of Moho (thereby needing less fuel for orbital insertion)

Not exactly, it's not as simple as just slowing down using the atmosphere, that can only get you down to an orbit similar to Eve's. But you'll be performing a slingshot at the same time, a sling shot just above the atmosphere might change your trajectory by (pulling a value out of the vacuum) 60 degrees. If your ship generates lift you can use the atmosphere to get that to 180 degrees. Whether that saves you energy over just doing multiple slingshots around Eve will depend on whether it takes more deltaV to get from Eve to Kerbin(what you'll have coming in) or Eve to Moho(what you want going out).

An aerosling is a pretty tricky maneuver though, it would be quite a feat to pull off with just the navball and orbital map.

[Excalibur]

I wonder if you could come up with a trajectory that aerobrakes through eve's atmosphere to achieve a slower flyby of Moho (thereby needing less fuel for orbital insertion)

The problem with that idea as Zool pointed out is aerobraking. The point of using an Eve gravity assist would be not to shed velocity, but to use Eve's gravity well to change your orbital parameters so that you intersect Moho's orbit after the slingshot maneuver. I think you should be able to adjust your trajectory a good deal more than 60 degrees, though that depends on your relative velocity to Eve when you enter it's SOI. Since Eve's orbit will probably be fairly close to that of Kerbin's the difference in velocity at Eve shouldn't be too great. What may further complicate matters is Moho's orbital inclination. If it's inclined quite steeply relative to the ecliptic then you'll also need to turn your gravity assist into a plane-change maneuver.

Luckily the patched conics system allows for a bit of trial and error - you could quicksave upon entering Eve's SOI and then experiment with burns (reloading after every fail) until you figure out how to achieve the desired results.

[Zool]

I tried an aerosling around Kerbin, and even with a total lift of 7.8 on a 1 man command pod and near empty fuel tank I couldn't get much effect. It probably won't be worth touching the atmosphere of any planet you don't want to orbit or land on.

[winged_wolf]

I can't wait to get bases on all the satellites I wonder this means they will implement temperature somehow I would love that, perhaps it could also effect reentry procedures... The gas planet interests me the most.. I wonder what I can do with it...

[JackAz]

I'd like to talk about Jool. Since it's a gas giant, we all know it doesnt have an actual surface. inside it's atmosphere there only different type of gases. But these planets have also a core...

And i wonder, if Jool's core hasn't dissolved, we could see it through probes maybe. But this is only a theory.

Let me know what you guys think about it.

[Lordherrmann]

I'd like to talk about Jool. Since it's a gas giant, we all know it doesnt have an actual surface. inside it's atmosphere there only different type of gases. But these planets have also a core...

And i wonder, if Jool's core hasn't dissolved, we could see it through probes maybe. But this is only a theory.

Let me know what you guys think about it.

Theoretically there might be a chance to find Jool's core, but as Jool hasn't got an actual surface yet and we would need special instruments to discover and explore it this won't be possible in 0.16, but maybe later.

[karolus10]

You cannot get to the core even if you will be able to withstand the pressure, because before you will encounter area where gas (because of unthinkable pressure) became metal solid, and far higher above are layers of hot liquid gas (also because of pressure).

So we can say, that gas giants "surface" are all liquid, (also you couldn't see liquid surface because gases are so thick there, that it will like super dense mist, also transition between both states are smooth) but reaching liquid layer are virtually impossible .

radius on picture is in thousands kilometers

Edited September 11, 2012 by karolus10

[ModernArc]

You cannot get to the core even if you will be able to withstand the pressure, because before you will encounter area where gas (because of unthinkable pressure) became metal solid, and far higher above are layers of hot liquid gas (also because of pressure).

So we can say, that gas giants "surface" are all liquid, (also you couldn't see liquid surface because gases are so thick there, that it will like super dense mist, also transition between both states are smooth) but reaching liquid layer are virtually impossible .

radius on picture is in thousands kilometers

Wait, so the new giant gas planet in Kerbal Space Program won't have a surface? A solid surface to land on, there is a liquid surface though. It would be a pretty sight to be in orbit around though.

[Jay_Em]

So how is Jool going to be implemented without a solid surface then? Similar to the sun?

[Znath]

Something that might be interesting either officially or via mods.

Lighter-than-air craft.

Which on Eve might be easier. If it's a non-air atmosphere like some super dense gas instead. You might be able to set up a station hovering in the sky suspended by balloons. With atmosphere that thick, it can be easily pushed along with propellers.

Whether the game can even do that or not, I don't know. It's just a thought.

At the least, I bet you could throw some wings on a lander and have it gently drift to the surface. The gravity is higher, but not that much higher really. The air density will be the greatest issue on landing and takeoff from Eve. 5x air density is enough I'm not sure I'd even attempt a Kerbal landing on the surface.

[sal_vager]

Znath, you might find this useful

[A Fat Pokemon]

I was thinkign the same. I personally carn't wait to see how Scott Manley solves this problem. (http://www.youtube.com/user/szyzyg?feature=g-all-u) that guy in case anyone dont know

If you can do a sundive, It's possible If you can get an elliptical(?) orbit around Kerbol by leaving Kerbin's SOI at the right time, and burn retrograde once your reach your apoapsis (The one farthest from the body you are orbiting, I think its that ), then it should be pretty easy to adjust the orbit to enter Moho's SOI. Now im not so great with this, but I would say that if you entered Moho's SOI and you were going the same direction as it is around Kerbol, acheiving an orbit around it shouldn't be all too hard, but then again im not quite sure about this.

[Fredonia]

I will most definitely be planning a trip to Duna... Just as soon as I can safely land Kerbals on Mun and Minmus and return. I'm SO close...

[DeviouslyDeviant]

It's Mechjeb all the way for me! Duna is my first choice, I got a thing for Mars

[Khrissetti]

Wasn't one of the devs saying that Moho's surface will be so hot that you won't be able to land?

[SNapple]

I'd like to talk about Jool. Since it's a gas giant, we all know it doesnt have an actual surface. inside it's atmosphere there only different type of gases. But these planets have also a core...

And i wonder, if Jool's core hasn't dissolved, we could see it through probes maybe. But this is only a theory.

Let me know what you guys think about it.

Real gas giants form out of ice-crystal cores. Jupiter is essentially an ice planet.

Wow.