[1.0.2] NovaPunch 2.09. - May 6th - 1.0 Compatibility Update

[Guest]

The 'small difference in size' is going to be really pronounced if you try putting 1.75m fairing onto a 1.5m rocket.

For Silisko\'s probes, I think that a 1.4m fairing will do just fine.

[Kryten]

The 'small difference in size' is going to be really pronounced if you try putting 1.75m fairing onto a 1.5m rocket.

This would be a good point, if there were any 1.5m rockets.

[Tiberion]

I was thinking that 1.5 or even 1.25 would be appropriate for satellite launches and such, where the payload is 1m with just some folded solar panels and such, for launching atop a 1m launcher (sort of like the ares) - the 1.75 looks okay for this.

I\'m not sure how many true 0.5m parts are out there to make 1m shrouds useful.

[Guest]

This would be a good point, if there were any 1.5m rockets.

Aren\'t there 1.5m parts anywhere?

OK, NP really doesn\'t have any such parts, but IIRC other mod packs do.

[Jesus KerBeard]

I\'m not sure how many true 0.5m parts are out there to make 1m shrouds useful.

There really aren\'t enough for it to be worthwhile and Nova\'s probes don\'t stay that skinny once you cover them in antennae and cameras and such.

Sarkun\'s Able class are 1.5m, I\'m not sure if there are others.

[Tiberion]

Okay, done so far:

Existing NP Legs changed to animation system

Slug\'s PLF parts reconfigured and imported into NP system.

Slug\'s Radialbooster parts reconfigured into NP system; liquid boosters work like the existing vernier, just stronger. Spin booster, ullage booster and retro booster function as-is

Added Slug\'s 1.75m SRB stage (its shorter than the big one in NP already)

Added the big lander leg and the landing peg; they won\'t be animated

Looking at the reverse nose-cone and the winglets with mounting surfaces

That leaves the aerospike engine, the solarpanel, and that signalflare thing. I don\'t think the aerospike model is built in a way to let it be re-worked into a functional model (with the fins and such) so it may not have much use.

Still not sure what to do with the old SP fairings. More of you feel free to weigh in.

[ultrasquid]

That leaves the aerospike engine, the solarpanel, and that signalflare thing. I don\'t think the aerospike model is built in a way to let it be re-worked into a functional model (with the fins and such) so it may not have much use.

I\'m not sure what the problem is. Areospike engines generally have no visible moving parts, even those with vectoring capability as that\'s done by asymmetric fuel pumping.

[Tiberion]

Well I am not really sure why the fins are there, but they certainly seem like they\'re designed to be animated, maybe for some sort of thrust vectoring. Or he just thought it looked cool? I dunno.

I am open to suggestions as to how it could be useful in NP; as is its just a different model for a 1m engine, of which we have 4 or 5 now.

[Iskierka]

The advantage to aerospikes IRL is that they\'re somewhat inefficient, but very, very light, if that helps.

[Guest]

Yup, an inefficient, but very low mass engine could potentially come in handy.

[Tiberion]

I thought the advantage to aerospikes was that they are better in a wider variety of atmospheric pressures due to the way they pressurize and shape their exhaust?

None of which is applicable to KSp at this time.

[randyrules711]

I have no words fit to describe how much I love this mod.

[Tiberion]

The words you have used are acceptable. Thank you

[GeneralIssue]

I thought the advantage to aerospikes was that they are better in a wider variety of atmospheric pressures due to the way they pressurize and shape their exhaust?

None of which is applicable to KSp at this time.

You got it. An aerospike will have a more even thrust curve than a conventional bell nozzle due to the fact that an aero utilizes the ambient pressure where it is to determine the shape of the exhaust \'cone\'. While a bell nozzle may be able to out-accelerate an aerospike to a certain altitude, the aerospike will ultimately have a higher Isp due to the fact that it is optimized for a wide range of altitudes.

(Sorry, had to nerd out a bit, I\'m building one currently )

[NovaSilisko]

I\'m building one currently

[Tiberion]

You got it. An aerospike will have a more even thrust curve than a conventional bell nozzle due to the fact that an aero utilizes the ambient pressure where it is to determine the shape of the exhaust \'cone\'. While a bell nozzle may be able to out-accelerate an aerospike to a certain altitude, the aerospike will ultimately have a higher Isp due to the fact that it is optimized for a wide range of altitudes.

(Sorry, had to nerd out a bit, I\'m building one currently )

Very cool

Have you seen the part in question? Its been around a while:

KSP has never supported animation, so those fins around the edge do nothing, I really never thought about their purpose overly much; Is that something a toroidal aerospike might have on it, or should they be trimmed off? (not sure its even possible without re-doing the model, haven\'t loaded it up in Blender yet)

[NovaSilisko]

The 'fins' around the edges are actually where the rocket exhaust comes out of.

[ultrasquid]

Here\'s a page full of aerospike rocket demonstrations http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=aerospike&search=tag

Near the top of the list is the linear aerospike engine intended for use on the X-33. Note the multiple nozzles in this design, in contrast with the undivided toroidal designs seen in the other videos. CaptainSlug\'s aerospike engine takes the multiport design of the X-33 motor and wraps it into a circle. Each of the nozzles can be individually modulated, thus enabling thrust vectoring when the valves are connected to an appropriate control system.

[Tiberion]

Yeah I took it apart in blender to get a better look at it, I get the construction now; the rusty texture is hiding a lot of detail in there.

It\'s actually made up of 6 or 8 different objects, so it\'s pretty open to being re-worked. I\'ll probably merge some objects to simplify the DAE file for KSP, but the original one will be intact as well, if anyone wants to perhaps go crazy with a more indepth aerospike plugin.

I did a quit tweak to give it a full spike, what do you think?

Gonna try a version without the rusty textures to see how it looks, though if anyone wants to tackle a detailed texture to show off the details, that would be swell.

[NovaSilisko]

Just a note, usually the spikes are very slightly flat on the end.

[ultrasquid]

Yes, the cone is truncated intentionally. It\'s not such a factor with the small demo motors, but it is quite pronounced on the linear #-33 motor.

[Tiberion]

Because of weight, ya?

Looked around a bit more and tweaked the spike, so it looks like it has a nozzle in there

[GeneralIssue]

Yeah I took it apart in blender to get a better look at it, I get the construction now; the rusty texture is hiding a lot of detail in there.

It\'s actually made up of 6 or 8 different objects, so it\'s pretty open to being re-worked. I\'ll probably merge some objects to simplify the DAE file for KSP, but the original one will be intact as well, if anyone wants to perhaps go crazy with a more indepth aerospike plugin.

I did a quit tweak to give it a full spike, what do you think?

[ aerospike.img ]

Gonna try a version without the rusty textures to see how it looks, though if anyone wants to tackle a detailed texture to show off the details, that would be swell.

The thing about that particular model is it looks like it would be able to do some sort of thrust vectoring by changing the shape of the throat and divergent section, but since KSP doesn\'t model gas flow (thank god, i like realism but that is wayyy too much lol) it just looks cool.

And as Nova said, the spikes are usually flat or slightly concave at the end to conserve mass, and at the speed the combusting gas flows out of the engine, it forms a vortex area that mimics the shape of the end of the spike anyway.

I think the amazing part of all this is that this technology has been around since the 60\'s.

[NovaSilisko]

There\'s actually no nozzle at all, except in for the annular aerospike(which Slug\'s was).

Usually, it\'s quite literally just a flat surface, since all the rocket thrust comes from nozzles along the outside (inside as well in the case of the annular variant):

[GeneralIssue]

I don\'t want to get toooo far off topic, but every post about aerospikes makes me so stoked to finish mine...it\'s weird going from huge slabs of rolled steel to a working rocket engine