Too easy to get science

[Seret]

Do I have to get my craft back to earn science? Every time I go to transmit data it says "not enough battery" and I'm only able to send like 5% back. What am I doing wrong here?

You have got limited power, use it only to transmit stuff you'll get 100% for (eg: crew reports). Stuff that are physical experiments like goo pods and the Jr lab you're going to want to return for analysis to get the most science for the least hassle.

[Person012345]

I'm honestly having trouble with science. Even as an experienced player. I disabled all my mods when update .22 came out because I really wanted to give career mode a legit run. Do I have to get my craft back to earn science? Every time I go to transmit data it says "not enough battery" and I'm only able to send like 5% back. What am I doing wrong here?

If you recover a craft you will get the science back (pods store EVA and crew reports and samples whilst the science objects store their own data I think) from the bit you recovered. If you intend to transmit your data take plenty of batteries or some form of electricity generation.

[Nemoricus]

From the standpoint of an experienced player, science as it currently is presents little difficulty, but I don't think that's so much of a problem as the fact that it's too difficult for a new player.

First off, the KSC menu isn't very clear, since it's not immediately apparent what each building does and why you should go to each. There's no mouseover text that tells you what the buildings do, and so you can miss the fact that there's an R&D building at all. Having some mouseover text would alleviate this problem.

Second, the means of getting science is unclear. There's nothing that tells a new player that recovering their vessel will get them science, for example. Also, there's nothing that tells you how to recover a vessel. Going to the tracking station isn't something that new players will know, and it's possible for them to miss the button that lets them do so in the flight scene. A tutorial would help with this one.

Third, the right click interface method of doing science is nonintuitive and a little finicky. That you can right click on a part at all isn't immediately apparent, but it's also a bad interface, since you have to right click on every single experiment in order to run them. There should be a dedicated button for science in the UI, which lets you see all of the experiments you have on the vessel and lets you perform them from this one place. This would also be easier for a new player to use.

Another issue I have, even as an experienced player, is that the lines where one biome changes to another are very, very unclear. Somewhere in the UI should be something that tells you whether you're in orbit over water/grasslands/shores or are in too high an orbit to notice the biomes. Perhaps a little picture in the one of the corners that shows you the situation?

Now, while I have a lot of issues with science as currently implemented, I think that it's an important step for KSP. It gives some progression to the game, and it's nice to be able to pick and choose which parts I want to use and which I don't. It keeps my VAB nice and uncluttered.

[Kerbin Von Braun]

Here's an idea. How about multiple tech trees? Like picking a difficulty mode or storyline in another game you would pick your scenario when you start the save, different orders of the nodes or different contents/cost in/for them could make for an entirely different feel to the game. The current version is a good intro to new players but what if there were other scenarios? Like one that started with spaceplane parts, one that made stability components difficult to get so you had to be a good pilot, or different values at each node so it became a lot harder to get to the next level. *shrug* its just an idea but I like the story-telling potential.

Thoughts?

Edited October 17, 2013 by Kerbin Von Braun
Clarification

[pizzaoverhead]

First off, the KSC menu isn't very clear, since it's not immediately apparent what each building does and why you should go to each. There's no mouseover text that tells you what the buildings do, and so you can miss the fact that there's an R&D building at all. Having some mouseover text would alleviate this problem.

Amusingly, there actually is mouseover text. The fact that you and most other players didn't notice it was there shows that it requires greater prominence. It's "hidden" in a dark-coloured areay of what most player's eyesight discards as the status bar.

Third, the right click interface method of doing science is nonintuitive and a little finicky. That you can right click on a part at all isn't immediately apparent, but it's also a bad interface, since you have to right click on every single experiment in order to run them. There should be a dedicated button for science in the UI, which lets you see all of the experiments you have on the vessel and lets you perform them from this one place. This would also be easier for a new player to use.

Discoverability is poor for many GUI elements in the game. The map view craft filters and flight view abort and recover craft buttons require mousing over the centre of the top of the screen. Right-clicking parts is difficult when the craft is tumbling, particularly with smaller parts like the antennae, and selecting buttons from a moving right-click menu is difficult and inaccurate. GUI and user experience is something I hope receives some development time in the future. It's difficult to do well, but it drastically improves the game experience, particularly for new users.

Exploiting game flaws leads to easy game

Surely this discussion is about identifying and reducing or removing game flaws? Your suggestions would help in this regard if they were enforced by the game.

But the important point is this: The tech tree in 0.22 is not designed to be the first stage of what most people think of as features of "career mode".

This doesn't agree with what the developers have stated. While career mode is still a work in progress, this is most definitely designed as it's first stage:

As you're all probably aware, this update introduces the long-awaited Career Mode which, while still under development, is now open.

[allmhuran]

All great points by Nemoricus and pizzaoverhead. Except...

This doesn't agree with what the developers have stated. While career mode is still a work in progress, this is most definitely designed as it's first stage:

Don't confuse the fact that "career mode" is now available with the fact that the tech tree has also been made available at the same time. That is to say, when most players have talked about wanting career mode, they have been talking about "post-sandbox" content. Stuff that gives you a *reason* to go to Jool again for those who have already been there (and everywhere else). Like a plot in a more linear game.

The 0.22 tech tree doesn't do this, it's "pre-sandbox" content that gives new players a gradual introduction to the parts.

So yes, while the tech tree will probably get fleshed out and combined with some more new features to deliver the true "career mode" stuff, what we have with the tech tree in 0.22 is not intended to fill that role. Scott Manley's interview with Felipe explains this.

[playfair1965]

Some better definitions and part descriptions would go along way to help the less professional players. "found at the side of the road" just don't cut it any more.

It might be easy right now, but that is because there is no economy to balance it against and missions to guide it. I'm sure once money plays a major role, it will make it much harder, you know, like in real life.

[KASASpace]

In my opinion I think it should be more of a RESEARCH system, like currently in War Thunder, but smaller. Like if you gather some science over the Mun, that gives Research points, which can go into some categories for different things, like Aerodynamics, Engines, Fuel Tanks, Structure, and crew pods and what not. So you select a thing to research, and the points you get from flying automatically go in there when recovered/transmitted. If you got more RP than you needed, you select something else to research. So, it would be different than now, but it would at least make some sense.

[scola_p]

As one of the aforementioned new players, the science tree is a great idea. I did about two launches in the sandbox, but decided I wanted to earn my progress.

However, it took a few days of research on the internet to find out how to get science beyond recovering craft.

I am not sure about the kerbal biomes however. I can't see Nasa firing a rocket to the Sahara to collect sand!

[Vindelle_Sunveam]

Please, just be kind. KSP is known for it's difficulty cliff, just like Mount and Blade. You need to remember that, as an experienced player, you did not only climb that cliff, but are now orbiting over it.

[vexx32]

This thread is fairly ancient. Let's wait till we see what 0.24 and maybe 0.25 bring to the table before we start worrying about things being too easy or too hard, eh?

For now, let's close this one, since it's from last October; if anyone still has gripes after 0.24 or 0.25, a new thread would probably be better anyway.