[VERY WIP] Syndic's GeologyRocks Mod

[Syndic]

Hey chaps.

Looooong time lurker, first time poster here.

I've for a long time been interested in modding Kerbal Space Program (And am a big fan of cramming as many as is possible into my install as is possible)

However, I've not really been particularly interested in being creative and making one myself. Mostly this is due to the fact that I've never really thought of a change that

would bring much to the game.

I think I've had that idea now -- and I'm progressing on with it.

Before I dive into any specifics, I need to point out that I have never developed any kind of mod before, ever. I've not done any 3d modelling, very little programming etc.

It'll be a learning experience for sure.

The weakness of the game I've identified is this:

Surface sampling per biome is a bit of a chore and is boring. It seems pointless to drag a Kerbal all the way to bounce down onto the surface, do his EVA Report, do his/her surface sample and then head on back to the ship.

My suggestion to rectify this:

In order to Make EVA's more rewarding, useful and necessary, I propose to populate celestial bodies with 'rocks'(Part files). Building on on the fantastic work already done by KospY, Winn75 and zzz in their Kerbal Attatchment System mod, I'd enable the Kerbals to collect these rocks, store them in some sort of Rickshaw or Wheelbarrow, and transfer them to a part on the lander that could store them. On recovery of the spacecraft, the rocks, dependent on size, type and other factors would be converted into science points.

What I have done so far:

I have created parts for the dozen most common types of Igneous and Metamorphic rocks and have made them work with the Kerbal Attatchment system.

Every type can be picked up, rolled, etc. I've completed the model for my rickshaw and wheelbarrow (I'm not sure which type would work best yet. It's a good way to learn blender anyway!) and I've completed a Container item to store the rocks. Everything transfers in and out pretty seamlessly. Tomorrow I will work on enabling the Kerbals to carry the items 'out front' rather than on the back as is standard with KAS.

What I want to do next and what I would require advice about from the esteemed gentlemen here:

I am going to keep this simple at the moment and only focus on the Mun.

-The first problem I can see coming up is disseminating these rocks around the Mun. Does anyone know of a method for deploying dynamic objects around a location? The least elegant method I came up with was writing a script to generate a new save file which would spread them around as parts. I'm sure this would be absolutely horrendous on performance though.

-Secondly, is there any plugin released or in development which can convert recovered parts into science points?

-Thirdly, would there be any interest from the community in me releasing this if I can get it to work?

-Finally, Does anyone have any suggestions that would perhaps make this simpler than I am making it? Any part suggestions for general geology also welcome!

Thank you in advance,

please be gentle.

Syndic

Edited May 18, 2014 by Syndic

[Reddragon]

As a (hopefully) future geologist, I am of course interested in it. I'm not a coder at any level but the asteroid generating codes is what you might be interested in since as far as I know no mods have random placement systems. Or, maybe the scatter density codes.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Reddragon

[G'th]

Oh god yes. If there's something that's missing from this game, its designing your return crafts around the expectation that you'll be hauling several tons of rocks.

As far as how to do it, I can think of only two bits of advice. AS far as generating them goes, you may want to look into how asteroids work. It may be possible to adapt that mechanic for this.

And as far as actually interacting with the rocks, Kerbal Attachment System seems perfect for it, especially if you're going to generate the rocks as parts.

[CaptainKipard]

As a (hopefully) future geologist, I am of course interested in it. I'm not a coder at any level but the asteroid generating codes is what you might be interested in since as far as I know no mods have random placement systems. Or, maybe the scatter density codes.

We need more scientists to give input into mod development. I don't know why this doesn't happen more often.

[Captain Sierra]

You might want to look into the stock game ground scatter code. It basically does this for parts without colliders. I think many answers can be found there, but as a non-programmer myself, I cannot say anything with certainty.

[Albert VDS]

This is a great idea, having real samples to return. I think the key is to have it like the scatter code, like stated above. Though less frequent.

[Fingal]

We need more scientists to give input into mod development. I don't know why this doesn't happen more often.

And as someone with a degree in geology, I'd be delighted to help as well. I've often thought the crew reports from orbit could be used as pointers to interesting geological sights.

And I'm heartbroken that there isn't a biome on Mun that says either "there is orange soil here!" or "guess what we just found, I think we found ourselves some anorthosite."

[montyben101]

Perhaps some sort of backpack the kerbals could wear, like a backpack version of the KAC part container

[Reddragon]

Perhaps some sort of backpack the kerbals could wear, like a backpack version of the KAC part container

Basically a single part with the KAS container module would be enough. If it could be dropped, Kerbals could put the rocks in it and than pick up again. This is quite easy.

[Syndic]

Yeah, RedDragon is right. That's the easy bit. The KAS plugin already has code for containers.

The picking up, carrying around and loading onto the spacecraft has already been done thanks to KAS. Getting the rocks up there, and having them converted into science after returning is the difficult part

[avivey]

I would definitely use this mod - it would make much more rewording exploration!

Technically, adding lots of parts to the surrounding area can have make a strain on the physics side. Some ideas to make this simpler:

- Don't just copy the Scatter code, use the scattered objects as rocks. Currently, Scatter only creates a visual effects, but if you can find the scattered boulders, and maybe create a Rock part in them when a kerbal is close enough, it might create a nice "rocks are real" effect without having lots of game objects around.

- Alternatively, add an EVA command for "Dig for rocks" (Which will create a handful of rocks in a ~2 meter radius), or have "Take surface sample" generate rocks. This is a little less immersive, but simpler to implement and will not strain the computer.

- Right now, any Part object must be part of a Vessel object, and these are all shown in the tracking center. You might be able to define your rocks as vesselType that isn't a legal value, and that will hide them there.

- Remember to delete rock objects from the game when they are not needed - otherwise the game will keep track of them, which costs CPU and RAM. (I might have a dirty trick for that...)

[kiwiak]

I will be definetly keeping eye on this.

It is always nice to have more to do during missions.

[CaptainKipard]

And as someone with a degree in geology, I'd be delighted to help as well. I've often thought the crew reports from orbit could be used as pointers to interesting geological sights.

And I'm heartbroken that there isn't a biome on Mun that says either "there is orange soil here!" or "guess what we just found, I think we found ourselves some anorthosite."

What are you waiting for then? Start spamming ideas. I think most people on these forums like science, and a large part of the community is into realism mods, so go nuts.

Ultimately OP has control over what goes into it, but if he/she doesn't take real scientific advice into serious consideration then that will only hurt the mod in the end. I see it sometimes. Mod makers doing only what they want to do, and then no one downloads the mod. I'm looking forward to this if it ends up being good.

I've subscribed to this thread so I'll be watching and helping out if need be.

[Reddragon]

I'm up for this as a tester. This mod can have a great potential. KSP really needs methods of actually earning science. I'll try to sort out the best ways for earning science from parts.

[Syndic]

The more science the better!

What I don't want to do at the outset is doom myself by promising more than I can deliver. I am learning everything from scratch.

I mean, this is the level I'm at so far. Just making sure everything behaves the way it should in triple scale before anything else.

I think after I've finished off the parts I can foresee needing at this stage (Ideas as to what sort of rocks there would even BE on the Mun are very, very welcome!) I will tackle the rocks-for-science problem first. It's far more limited a challenge than scattering the samples about -- there's already precedents in game for awarding science for conditions (craft returned from orbit, craft returned from surface of the mun for example)

[Robotengineer]

I am just speculating, but it may be possible to make some surface rocks behave like asteroids, so that you get surface samples from them (or in the the case of this mod return them). Asteroid integration would be great with this mod so that you could have different types of asteroids, like iron, ice, etc.

[CaptainKipard]

Asteroid variations are already being worked on by someone else.

I think for this it would be a good idea to keep the rocks as non physical entities scattered randomly on the ground. Less lag I guess.

[Syndic]

Ugh, it was so simple, it was staring me in the face! Good news, I just tested a method I think will work. As the rocks are part files, I can create a new experiment type using ModuleScienceExperiment module that comes with KSP.

Here's how it would work:

1) You scoot up to your rock and pick it up.

2) right click on it, the context menu will have a new item 'Examine rock' linked to an experiment

3) The experiment will proceed as normal, though I will set it to transmitvalue 0

4) You stuff it into the sample return part and when you land, you'll get your science just like any other returned science part.

[Reddragon]

Good idea! As for textures for the objects I'd suggest to use Mare basalts (pictures of course) since they'd look more rocky and detailed. With fairly high definition textures they could look very good as they are quite small objects.

[Syndic]

Here's to you Mr RedDragon!

[Reddragon]

Wow, that's a nice one! I see you have used the EVA RCS control mode animation, right?

[Syndic]

Yes. At this point in time only by expedient of pressing 'r' for screenshot purposes.

If there's a way to call up the animation another way I am very interested.

[Reddragon]

Well, the only possible solution I can imagine is if the KAS grab item position parameters are set correctly, so you can have it attached in front of the Kerbal rather than on the backpack. Without going to RCS mode to just make their hands 'hold' the rock would require a plugin and the grab module should trigger it. That would require a plugin I think.

Actually, I think the RCS backpack shouldn't be on them while conducting EVA on celestial bodies. Texturereplacer could help with this. But that's another story.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Reddragon

[CaptainKipard]

Actually, I think the RCS backpack shouldn't be on them while conducting EVA on celestial bodies. Texturereplacer could help with this. But that's another story.

Not necessarily. Daishi is making a backpack model that acts as an extension to the rocket pack. Why not do something similar here?

[Drew Kerman]

This is great. Definitely keeping an eye on this. I too would love to have to plan for the extra weight of return samples.

And I'm heartbroken that there isn't a biome on Mun that says either "there is orange soil here!" or "guess what we just found, I think we found ourselves some anorthosite."

Sounds like you need to contribute to community science reports.