Kerbal Stuff, an open-source Space Port replacement

[AlphaAsh]

...is grouped into four categories in Curse (Parts Pack, Sub-Assembly, Structural & Aerodynamic and Command & Control)...

And the issue there? The categories. Curse didn't think out the categories carefully.

[Justin Kerbice]

IMHO, when looking back at spaceport, for people who have known it, even some modders are dumb sometimes and don't even have a single clue where they should put their own mod ! That's true !

There would be one "master" category per mod + many tags, so to get back to KW Rocketry, it could be cat="propulsion" tag="command pod, control, structural, aero, sub-assembly" (maybe parts pack is quite obvious).

But category should not be limited to main KSP parts type and include such as historical, aircraft, "country"-related (USA, USSR, China, Europe, ...) etc for various kind of set (like ESA launchers pack, replica of old or new USSR space crafts, new rovers from USA/China, ...), aircraft for mod like KAX or Spaceplane Plus (which is better than propulsion/aero/utility), plus some specific to other mod like effects (hot/cool rorckets, smokescreen), contracts/career, science, in-game tool (toolbar, KAC, EE, ...), game tool (KSP mod admin, ...).

[Ippo]

IMHO, a more elegant solution would be subcategories: each big category is like a folder that contains other subcategories, such as Parts->propulsion, or Parts->aerodynamics, and so on.

That being said, I really don't care about categories until the site hosts many more mods, they would be kinda pointless right now.

[hab136]

I have come to the conclusions that 1) Modders and Mod users alike hate Curse and

The vast majority of modders and mod users don't give a [FLYING PUPPY].

The vocal ones tend to complain. Nobody comes to the forums and says "meh, Curse is the official site and it works well enough, who cares what site we use" except occasionally in response to vitrol from the vocal minority.

2) Most Modders, even if they do not post to Kerbal Stuff, look upon it favorably.

Why would they look upon it favorably but not use it?

I like the idea of competition, but my experience with Kerbal Stuff to date has been less than good. I'll give the site another shot at some point.

In practice, multiple competing mod sites is a pain. Uploading 5 times isn't a big deal, but formatting the updated description 5 times (forums, GitHub, Curse, NexusMods, KerbalStuff) is a pain. The path of least resistance is to make one the "main" site (usually the forums) and then just make the description in all the other sites say "look at (main site)". This is crappy for the mod user.

Edited July 31, 2014 by technicalfool
Language.

[hab136]

hab136 said:

I'll give the site another shot at some point.

I had a few minutes and I was actually able to create a mod this time: [Defunct link removed by a moderator]

Here's my comments on the site:

Once your profile is public, you can't go back to private. Why? Sure, you can't take stuff back from the internet (Google cache, Wayback machine, etc), but that's not Kerbal Stuff's problem.

My profile turned dark for no reason that I could discern, and I had to click outside the browser to get it back. No idea why it turned black or how to get it to turn back normal. Very frustrating. The mod page did the same thing.

On the main screen [Defunct link removed by a moderator] - the mod listing is basically showing little "windows" into the screenshot behind. It's a neat effect technically, but looks hideous in practice. Your first view at the page is:

* Fine Print: NE PR

* DebRefund: a corner of a window??

* FAR: empty grass

Giving each author a predefined image to show for the bar would work much better.

The selection bar on hover still makes no sense. Please change it from blocking out the mod you're selecting to something sensible (like a highlight around the edges).

And then there's... this UI:

I want to check that my links are working. Click on "Source Code". Nothing. Click on "Mod Website". Nothing. Click on my username. Nothing. Go edit my mod again, making sure the links are right, then test again. WTF?

A link that says "Browse".. Browse what?!?!? "Visit".. Visit what?!?! Finally look at the table again and realize the separated cells are actually supposed to be read together. There's no reason to have separate label text and then a verb-labelled link. The license ("Apache 2.0") spans the whole table - why don't the profile/source code/mod website labels? Then you wouldn't have this awkward "label: link" format; you could just click on "Source Code" or "Mod website". The profile should say "Author: hab136" and "hab136" should be clickable. Actually the whole row should be clickable because people are sloppy.

The license label should say "License: Apache 2.0" because many licenses names aren't obvious that they are in fact licenses (such as WTFPL). The license should link somewhere - clicking on "Apache 2.0" should go to the license (link supplied by author).

So it's better - it works now - but I'm not any happier with KerbalStuff than Curse.

Edited August 28, 2022 by James Kerman
link removed

[Justin Kerbice]

@hab136: just a few comments of your post:

- which is your browser ? You know how HTML gone really bad when browsers companies enforce standard for just fancy useless effects or other "we don't want to do the same as the ugly competitor", and if you look and W3C REFERENCE now, it's just... weird, the "we set the standards" became "we follow others private standards", so this may explain that,

- background picture is defined by author, you can choose one as 3rd media item on mod creation final step,

- license links may be provided as a predefined list "apache 2.0, CC 4.0, WTPF, other" and only when one choose "other", he/she have to provide a link, or not.

Why ? To avoid: 1. unneeded work from SirCmpwn 2. have unnecessary "million" number of link which are almost the same (500000 CC 4.0, 450000 lic1, 49000 lic2, ...) on the DB (instead, lic1, lic2, lic3... can be use internally, replaced by "apache 2.0" "CC 4.0" when generating the page), I know, just a few bytes here or there, but a tiny space spared multiplied by million is a huge space spared at the end.

[TheAlmightyOS]

Why would they look upon it favorably but not use it?

Please see my poll posted above. ~50% picked KS over all other options even though we know 50% of the mods are NOT hosted on KS. Not even 1% is hosted right now by my guestimate. From that data and from user comments I have come to the conclusion that a large portion of this community, while not actively using KS, is behind the IDEA of a open source self hosted repo and will join when the bugs are hammered out.

Now, that is quite a bit of speculation in that post. I don't have any real numbers to go on and that isn't usually like me to do. However, this community.... resists..... being metered for a lack of words.

[SirCmpwn]

This is what I have in mind for categories. Let me know what you think.

Each mod can choose only one primary category, from this list (which is mostly aped from curseforge):

• Science
  
• Physics
  
• Propulsion
  
• Utility
  
• Part Packs
  
• Structural
  
• Control
  
• Misc
  

I may try to get the redesigned UI done with categories in place, or I might save them until after the redesign. Not sure on the scheduling yet, but it will come soon. Thoughts?

[TheAlmightyOS]

This is what I have in mind for categories. Let me know what you think.

Each mod can choose only one primary category, from this list (which is mostly aped from curseforge):

• Science
  
• Physics
  
• Propulsion
  
• Utility
  
• Part Packs
  
• Structural
  
• Control
  
• Misc
  

I may try to get the redesigned UI done with categories in place, or I might save them until after the redesign. Not sure on the scheduling yet, but it will come soon. Thoughts?

I think that looks almost perfect. My concern: Part Packs is going to get overused. Maybe split Part Packs into Rocket Part Pack / Aeroplane Part Pack / Misc Part Pack? My idea is rough, needs some refinement

[SirCmpwn]

Updated category list after chatting about it on IRC:

- Interface

- Career

- Gameplay

- Information and Control

- Mapping and Communication

- Improved Realism

- Miscellaneous

- Part Packs

- Universe

- Utilities

- Visual Enhancements

I don't like the idea of splitting part packs up. I'm also considering making it so that modders cannot choose their own categories, so that there's consistency.

[Justin Kerbice]

Updated category list after chatting about it on IRC:

- Interface

- Career

- Gameplay

- Information and Control

- Mapping and Communication

- Improved Realism

- Miscellaneous

- Part Packs

- Universe

- Utilities

- Visual Enhancements

I don't like the idea of splitting part packs up. I'm also considering making it so that modders cannot choose their own categories, so that there's consistency.

Better than KSP part categories... or not, see below.

Career may be split into "science" and "contract" maybe.

But most of these categories are for plug-in only, then stand-alone tools, parts themselves are quite left aside.

Could I suggest:

tools/plug-in: your list (almost)

parts: KSP parts categories which is the closest applicable, or a new list :

command

control

engine

tank

plane

rocket

structural

rover

landing (gears, legs & chute + airbags or anything else help landing)

wheels

energy (batteries, SP, generator, ...)

staging (decoupler/separator + helpers like separatron)

resources (storage, converter, ...)

science

[SirCmpwn]

Better than KSP part categories... or not, see below.

Career may be split into "science" and "contract" maybe.

But most of these categories are for plug-in only, then stand-alone tools, parts themselves are quite left aside.

Could I suggest:

tools/plug-in: your list (almost)

parts: KSP parts categories which is the closest applicable, or a new list :

command

control

engine

tank

plane

rocket

structural

rover

landing (gears, legs & chute + airbags or anything else help landing)

wheels

energy (batteries, SP, generator, ...)

staging (decoupler/separator + helpers like separatron)

resources (storage, converter, ...)

science

I don't want too many categories, and I have intentionally left parts as one category for the time being.

[Borklund]

Are you going to embed ModStatistics with every download or require that every mod hosted on Kerbal Stuff includes it?

[SirCmpwn]

Are you going to embed ModStatistics with every download or require that every mod hosted on Kerbal Stuff includes it?

What? Of course not.

[Vanamonde]

With regard to some removed posts, the question was asked and answered. We have no reason to doubt SirCmpwn's word, so let's please let the discussion move on now.

[TheAlmightyOS]

I don't like the idea of splitting part packs up. I'm also considering making it so that modders cannot choose their own categories, so that there's consistency.

Understandable. I concerned about balance and exposure of mods, that is all.

Now, question: who would be choosing the category?

[SirCmpwn]

Understandable. I concerned about balance and exposure of mods, that is all.

Now, question: who would be choosing the category?

Admins. There are three of them now (including myself) who currently moderate the site. I may appoint more as the need grows.

[TheAlmightyOS]

Admins. There are three of them now (including myself) who currently moderate the site. I may appoint more as the need grows.

Now this poses an interesting question: is there an "approval" process for the mods in which the admins add the category, or are the mods "unassigned" until a admin sets the category?

[SirCmpwn]

Now this poses an interesting question: is there an "approval" process for the mods in which the admins add the category, or are the mods "unassigned" until a admin sets the category?

I imagine that the mods will remain uncategorized until assigned.

[TheAlmightyOS]

first, a disclaimer. I am not telling you how to run your project. And it is YOUR project. So when I say anything in this entire thread it is meant to be helpful to your process and not to (negatively) criticize your work. Still, I feel the need to say all that because what I say gets taken the wrong way all the time. So, yeah. There it is.

Now: Words and phrases like "I Imagine" and "Should Be" and "I suppose" are not appropriate answers when planning a project. The project leader (you) should have only three answers to questions. "Yes", "No" and "Let's talk it though cause my mind is not made up". Letting a feature remain ambiguous may cause headaches down the road during implementation.

[Jimmifett]

Redirected from a different thread...

Writing abrupt notes, not condescendingly, so please forgive any inference thereof.

* The direction of the redesign is definitely an improvement in UI. thumbs up!

* The bg starfield image in the header should probably have a little bit more distinction from the starfield parallax in the intro section. Looks wierd when the lower area parallaxes but the top does not.

*A more humble, less potentially inferred pretentiousness rewrite of intro text:

Kerbal Stuff aims to lead the way in community involvement between Kerbal Space Progam modders and the universe at large, merging together the most useful features of various other sites into a more complete and rewarding experience for both modders and players alike, enhancing with our own improvements to fill the gaps.

unoptimized run-on

original:

There have been a few poor modding sites for Kerbal Space Program in the past. Kerbal Stuff aims to be different. We fix the problems with the old and make the new work great. Most of all, Kerbal Stuff brings the Kerbal Space Program community back into the loop and puts the power in the modder's hands.

* Top mods and new mods should cycle the same space rather than scroll, timed carousel with navigation?

* Recommend instead of actual categories, tags. potentially a categories drop down or static in page menu listing the top x tags with link to full tag list. easier for 'classifiers' to place mods in the correct areas. Users should select from list of tags or suggest new during upload, but not create outright.

* mods shown based on json fed datastore from a cached query source (at least the top and new lists cached on a 2-4 hour basis), allowing tag selection to adjust the carousel on the fly.

$0.02

-Jim

[SirCmpwn]

first, a disclaimer. I am not telling you how to run your project. And it is YOUR project. So when I say anything in this entire thread it is meant to be helpful to your process and not to (negatively) criticize your work. Still, I feel the need to say all that because what I say gets taken the wrong way all the time. So, yeah. There it is.

Now: Words and phrases like "I Imagine" and "Should Be" and "I suppose" are not appropriate answers when planning a project. The project leader (you) should have only three answers to questions. "Yes", "No" and "Let's talk it though cause my mind is not made up". Letting a feature remain ambiguous may cause headaches down the road during implementation.

If you have interest in helping implement these things, then we can be more concrete. I'm not going to commit to implementing things a certain way when they're further down the road than I'm comfortable with. The issue of categorization is still up for discussion, I'm not handing down a verdict yet.

[TheAlmightyOS]

ah, so your saying that your mind is not made up on the idea of administrator assigned categories and how such a system would work. It is more of an idea to flesh out.

I understand your reasoning behind it. It reduces the abuse that could happen. However it could also increase the amount of work the administrators would have to perform. Thoughts?

[SirCmpwn]

Redirected from a different thread...

Writing abrupt notes, not condescendingly, so please forgive any inference thereof.

* The direction of the redesign is definitely an improvement in UI. thumbs up!

* The bg starfield image in the header should probably have a little bit more distinction from the starfield parallax in the intro section. Looks wierd when the lower area parallaxes but the top does not.

*A more humble, less potentially inferred pretentiousness rewrite of intro text:

Kerbal Stuff aims to lead the way in community involvement between Kerbal Space Progam modders and the universe at large, merging together the most useful features of various other sites into a more complete and rewarding experience for both modders and players alike, enhancing with our own improvements to fill the gaps.

unoptimized run-on

original:

There have been a few poor modding sites for Kerbal Space Program in the past. Kerbal Stuff aims to be different. We fix the problems with the old and make the new work great. Most of all, Kerbal Stuff brings the Kerbal Space Program community back into the loop and puts the power in the modder's hands.

* Top mods and new mods should cycle the same space rather than scroll, timed carousel with navigation?

* Recommend instead of actual categories, tags. potentially a categories drop down or static in page menu listing the top x tags with link to full tag list. easier for 'classifiers' to place mods in the correct areas. Users should select from list of tags or suggest new during upload, but not create outright.

* mods shown based on json fed datastore from a cached query source (at least the top and new lists cached on a 2-4 hour basis), allowing tag selection to adjust the carousel on the fly.

$0.02

-Jim

The background starfield is parallax on the actual implementation of this design. The links you've seen are just mockups. Also, regaridng the intro text, I'll revisit it but I'm not convinced it's bad.

As for the top/new mods cycling in the same space, I don't like that. Carousels are the devil. I also don't currently want to invest time in a more complex system like tags over categories.

Thanks for the feedback, Jim.

[SirCmpwn]

ah, so your saying that your mind is not made up on the idea of administrator assigned categories and how such a system would work. It is more of an idea to flesh out.

I understand your reasoning behind it. It reduces the abuse that could happen. However it could also increase the amount of work the administrators would have to perform. Thoughts?

The work admins would have to perform is pretty trivial, I think.