[1.1.2] Realism Overhaul v11.0.0 May 8

[Wingnutt]

So where is the CKAN version exactly??

Under: Pre-Packaged installation via CKAN!

" We have prepared a set of installation packages for the mods in Realism Overhaul"

Great but.. I dont see any links to them... only links to the CKAN forum and CKAN.exe....

[Gaarst]

So where is the CKAN version exactly??

Under: Pre-Packaged installation via CKAN!

" We have prepared a set of installation packages for the mods in Realism Overhaul"

Great but.. I dont see any links to them... only links to the CKAN forum and CKAN.exe....

You have to download CKAN, put the ckan.exe in your KSP folder, run it, and activate the "Realism Overhaul" mod in CKAN. Installation is automatic, just follow the indicated steps.

[Wingnutt]

gotcha, thanks!

[xv323]

Hi all.

Unfortunately, I'm having a very specific problem with Realism Overhaul. This is my first time attempting to use this mod. I started to go through the process of getting log files etc, but I decided to do some troubleshooting myself first, and I'm pretty sure I found the source - but I'm slightly confused as to why the problem's there at all. Log files won't help, I don't think, as the problem is in the .cfg file for a particular part. Any info as to how to fix it would be very much appreciated. I'm on a Mac running OSX 10.9 (Mavericks).

The problem I'm having is associated with the FASA Apollo Command Module and associated parts - the Apollo heat shield, particularly. As you all no doubt are aware, the Apollo CM part from FASA doesn't normally include the heat shield, which instead is is a separate part attached to the CM's lower attachment node. When Realism Overhaul is installed into my game, I get the following thing happening (imgur links):

http://i.imgur.com/19gk2oO.png

http://i.imgur.com/GrunMFE.png

Importantly - the heat shield that you see misaligned there is not a separate part that I've added. That's what the CM part now looks like - when RO is installed the CM part has somehow had the heat shield added to it. As you can see, it's also not placed correctly.

Firstly, I've double-checked that I have up-to-date versions of all the dependencies required for Realism Overhaul and furthermore that I have the latest version of Realism Overhaul itself. Having initially encountered this issue I re-downloaded RO to check that the latest version did indeed have this issue and it did. I was installing RO into KSP along with FAR and RSS and I checked all the dependencies for those as well. Furthermore, I tested adding each individual mod into the game in turn and found that the effect only occurred when RO was present. I have also ensured that I correctly followed all the installation steps for all relevant mods.

This all led me to look into the FASA cfg files included in RO. I found that in the 'RO_FASA_ApolloCSM.cfg' file, within the '@PART[FASAApollo_CM]:FOR[RealismOverhaul]' part entry, there was the following section:

MODEL

{

model=FASA/Apollo/ApolloCSM/FASAApollo_Heatshield

scale = 1.0, 1.0, 1.0

position = 0, -1.371, 0 // 0, -1.271, 0

rotation = 0, 0, 0

}

Removing this section from the config file got rid of the heat shield from the CSM model and that particular part subsequently seemed to be behaving normally. Again - this is present in the latest-version download, I have double-checked that it isn't anything I've personally done that's somehow screwed this up. In any case - having deleted this particular bit of the cfg file, the heat shield part itself is now having other issues. I now can't attach it correctly to the base of the command module - what instead happens is shown here:

http://imgur.com/rxqMzPh

Even with part-clipping enabled I can't get the heat shield to move up into its proper position - there isn't a node there to accept it, it seems. I've looked at the entry in the config file for the heat shield part and I can't seem to fix this latest problem. Fiddling around with the node positions doesn't seem to help.

I'd really appreciate any help that anyone can give here - I'm slightly nonplussed as to why the entry in the cfg file for the command module part even includes the heat shield at all. Are there an earlier set of config files I could use? If not, what exactly is going on here - is this something that only I am having a problem with? Searching within this thread did not turn up anyone mentioning the same issue as far as I can tell.

Thanks in advance.

Edited October 11, 2015 by xv323

[Wingnutt]

Wow..

Ok did a fresh install of KSP, installed CKAN, installed Realism Overhaul VIA CKAN, installed the required and suggested mods..

Get a ton of incompatible warnings on loading saying many of the mods are only 1.02 compatible, game crashes on startup.

- - - Updated - - -

This is legitimately, government papers, retarded.

deleted all content again, installed CKAN, installed ONLY the required mods.

Game now launches, but whatever ungodly POS engine smoke mod this thing is running is absolute GARBAGE. I've got a pretty top end system, and my FR drops from 120 to... 5 FIVE!!! just seconds after launch due to the smoke, IGNORANT amounts of smoke.

Command modules overheat and explode on the launch pad

Several SRBs have zero thrust on launch

Mod is completely broken.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Wingnutt

[jandcando]

Hi all.

Unfortunately, I'm having a very specific problem with Realism Overhaul. This is my first time attempting to use this mod. I started to go through the process of getting log files etc, but I decided to do some troubleshooting myself first, and I'm pretty sure I found the source - but I'm slightly confused as to why the problem's there at all. Log files won't help, I don't think, as the problem is in the .cfg file for a particular part. Any info as to how to fix it would be very much appreciated. I'm on a Mac running OSX 10.9 (Mavericks).

This doesn't seem to be bug at all. Looking through the .cfg, it looks like it is intentional. The idea here is to make building a craft with an Apollo capsule easier, so they have put the heatshield on for you! Hooray! Unfortunately, it does look like the model's position could be tweaked slightly to make sure that the shield is on the capsule better. The reason the node is off is because that node position is the node position adjusted for the heatshield. Now that the heatshield is gone, the node's position hasn't changed. This should be a pretty easy fix, but I don't have the time to fix it myself. You should open a GitHub issue!

- - - Updated - - -

Wow..

Ok did a fresh install of KSP, installed CKAN, installed Realism Overhaul VIA CKAN, installed the required and suggested mods..

Get a ton of incompatible warnings on loading saying many of the mods are only 1.02 compatible, game crashes on startup.

- - - Updated - - -

This is legitimately, government papers, retarded.

deleted all content again, installed CKAN, installed ONLY the required mods.

Game now launches, but whatever ungodly POS engine smoke mod this thing is running is absolute GARBAGE. I've got a pretty top end system, and my FR drops from 120 to... 5 FIVE!!! just seconds after launch due to the smoke, IGNORANT amounts of smoke.

Yeah, a lot of the plumes could use some smoke adjustments. You can fix the lag problem by going into the SmokeScreen settings (you need the Toolbar mod installed), and decreasing the max particle count. It doesn't really matter how good your system is; those smoke particles adding up WILL lag your game unless you decrease the particle count.

Edited October 11, 2015 by jandcando

[Red Iron Crown]

Wow..

Ok did a fresh install of KSP, installed CKAN, installed Realism Overhaul VIA CKAN, installed the required and suggested mods..

Get a ton of incompatible warnings on loading saying many of the mods are only 1.02 compatible, game crashes on startup.

- - - Updated - - -

This is legitimately, government papers, retarded.

deleted all content again, installed CKAN, installed ONLY the required mods.

Game now launches, but whatever ungodly POS engine smoke mod this thing is running is absolute GARBAGE. I've got a pretty top end system, and my FR drops from 120 to... 5 FIVE!!! just seconds after launch due to the smoke, IGNORANT amounts of smoke.

Command modules overheat and explode on the launch pad

Several SRBs have zero thrust on launch

Mod is completely broken.

Please work on your people skills and phrasing, no one is going to take a post in this sort of insulting tone seriously. If you are having problems with the mod then report them politely and people will do their best to help you. Words like "retarded', "POS", "GARBAGE", "IGNORANT" and "broken" are only inflammatory and don't make people want to help you at all.

[ClLaw]

Wow..

Ok did a fresh install of KSP, installed CKAN, installed Realism Overhaul VIA CKAN, installed the required and suggested mods..

Get a ton of incompatible warnings on loading saying many of the mods are only 1.02 compatible, game crashes on startup.

- - - Updated - - -

This is legitimately, government papers, retarded.

deleted all content again, installed CKAN, installed ONLY the required mods.

Game now launches, but whatever ungodly POS engine smoke mod this thing is running is absolute GARBAGE. I've got a pretty top end system, and my FR drops from 120 to... 5 FIVE!!! just seconds after launch due to the smoke, IGNORANT amounts of smoke.

Command modules overheat and explode on the launch pad

Several SRBs have zero thrust on launch

Mod is completely broken.

Did you install like this?

[xv323]

This doesn't seem to be bug at all. Looking through the .cfg, it looks like it is intentional. The idea here is to make building a craft with an Apollo capsule easier, so they have put the heatshield on for you! Hooray! Unfortunately, it does look like the model's position could be tweaked slightly to make sure that the shield is on the capsule better. The reason the node is off is because that node position is the node position adjusted for the heatshield. Now that the heatshield is gone, the node's position hasn't changed. This should be a pretty easy fix, but I don't have the time to fix it myself. You should open a GitHub issue!

Thanks for your reply. In my particular case, I need the heat shield as a separate part from the command module, as I am using the command module as the top of a larger spacecraft which I'm constructing. Long story so I won't elaborate, but as far as those nodes go, it's a bit of a pain. I will keep fiddling around though! Again thanks for helping

[Laie]

Command modules overheat and explode on the launch pad

Had that too. Until I found out that I need to chdir to the KSP directory.

Just calling /foo/bar/baz/KSP.x86_64 gives me lots of amazing bugs.

cd /foo/bar/baz, then calling KSP.x86_64 made most of them go away.

[NathanKell]

Laie: That would be because KSP loads various files using relative not absolute paths.

[chrisl]

I'm guessing that RO adjusts the default values for TACLS when that mod is also installed. I found that if the MaxDeltaTime is set to 86400 (the apparent default in RO with TACLS) then life support generators don't work properly when you advance time while not focused on a crewed capsule. But the generators do work properly if the MaxDeltaTime is smaller. I ran tests with a MaxDeltaTime=4000 (4,000 sec pass for each physics frame [0.04] when running at 100,000x time warp) and the generators appear to create and use resources correctly even when not focused on a craft. It might be worth adjusting the TACLS MaxDeltaTime default value in RO to a lower value.

[codepoet]

Please work on your people skills and phrasing, no one is going to take a post in this sort of insulting tone seriously. If you are having problems with the mod then report them politely and people will do their best to help you. Words like "........', "POS", "GARBAGE", "IGNORANT" and "broken" are only inflammatory and don't make people want to help you at all.

Indeed. I know how to solve Wingnutt's problems, but I am not telling

[StoryMusgrave]

I'm guessing that RO adjusts the default values for TACLS when that mod is also installed. I found that if the MaxDeltaTime is set to 86400 (the apparent default in RO with TACLS) then life support generators don't work properly when you advance time while not focused on a crewed capsule. But the generators do work properly if the MaxDeltaTime is smaller. I ran tests with a MaxDeltaTime=4000 (4,000 sec pass for each physics frame [0.04] when running at 100,000x time warp) and the generators appear to create and use resources correctly even when not focused on a craft. It might be worth adjusting the TACLS MaxDeltaTime default value in RO to a lower value.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40667-1-0-2-TAC-Life-Support-v0-11-1-20-5Apr?p=1062866&viewfull=1#post1062866

[LividPumpkin]

Hey guys recently i have been getting a lot of crashes that happens when i try to load a rocket or going to space center i have about 2.3 GB ram (RO with some other mods) on the start menu iam running the game on force-d3d11 do you guys have any ideas ?

[Rothank]

Hey guys recently i have been getting a lot of crashes that happens when i try to load a rocket or going to space center i have about 2.3 GB ram (RO with some other mods) on the start menu iam running the game on force-d3d11 do you guys have any ideas ?

Try running the game in opengl mode, d3d11 may look good and have a small initial memory footprint, but it has issues for some people.

[LividPumpkin]

Try running the game in opengl mode, d3d11 may look good and have a small initial memory footprint, but it has issues for some people.

That's another problem because OpenGL makes a HUGE FPS drop in the VAB i can't build stuff

[JT2227]

Avast!

I am loving KSP RO, but I am running into problems on my Mars Mission. The liquid boiloff rates are just too high, no matter what I do all of the fuel boils off within 100 days. Radiators, sunshields, pointing the craft at the sun, cryogenic and ballon-cryo tank. The planned misson to Mars using NASA's former MTV Copernicus (Shown in this Stanford study) uses ~230t Liquid Hydrogen tanks with NTR rockets, just as my testing article does. The Misson at its shortest would last about 545 days which means that in Realism Overhaul's current state, it is highly difficult (if not impossible) to use cryogenic fuels for long term missions. This is highly unfortunate, as in real life cryogenic fuels present an excellent option for manned solar system exploration.

Tl;Dr

The boiloff rate for liquid hydrogen (and possibly Lox) is highly exaggerated, with no present way to slow boiloff.

(Extra Sauce: http://imgur.com/a/Ph2lJ )

(Real life comparison for standard: http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2015/ph241/gerrard2/docs/20120009207.pdf )

*in stanford study, source mainly near page 11*

[MyOnlyLife]

That's another problem because OpenGL makes a HUGE FPS drop in the VAB i can't build stuff

I recommend running 64 bit on Linux or use Windows 64 bit and 64 bit unifixer. There are annoying bugs but works great with RSS / RO.

Question for people using FASA with RO: does your AJ10 engine for Apollo Service Module have gimbal? For some reason mine doesn't when it shows that it has gimbal.

[BevoLJ]

The boiloff rate for liquid hydrogen (and possibly Lox) is highly exaggerated, with no present way to slow boiloff.

Has any zero boiloff tank ever been made? I have read about a few being researched before, but can't think of any that have been actually been used.

Maybe if a mod like Near Future could make a futuristic zero boil off tank. That could do that would be really cool. However, it is probably best to keep the normal cryo tanks boil off for LH2 like the cryo tanks actually used IRL.

Edit: The easiest solution would be to just use methalox. Its boil off is MUCH lower and should be fine for Mars (in an appropriate tank obviously).

Edited October 14, 2015 by BevoLJ

[Phineas Freak]

For long term, deep space missions using LH2, we really need active refrigeration units. After reading the notes for 1.0.5, the thermal improvements mention that a system like that will be possible, so i guess that we can wait a bit more and find out.

[JT2227]

Has any zero boiloff tank ever been made? I have read about a few being researched before, but can't think of any that have been actually been used.

Maybe if a mod like Near Future could make a futuristic zero boil off tank. That could do that would be really cool. However, it is probably best to keep the normal cryo tanks boil off for LH2 like the cryo tanks actually used IRL.

Edit: The easiest solution would be to just use methalox. Its boil off is MUCH lower and should be fine for Mars (in an appropriate tank obviously).

The LH2 rate in realism overhaul is much higher than it is in real life, or at least it is similar to standard thanks, but there is no way to bring it to the rate used by the Copernicus MTV in real life. I think values should be adjusted to their real life values, as in real life it is very possible to use LH2 for long term exploration Missions.

[StoryMusgrave]

JT2227: First, your source specifically states using a zero boil off active refrigeration system. Second, RO doesn't change anything for boil off. That is all real fuels. So if you have further issues, you need to bring that up in that thread. Third, and most importantly, related to that, starwaster is working on a new boil off mechanism with real fuels.

Should make all of this a moot point.

[Laie]

The LH2 rate in realism overhaul is much higher than it is in real life.

Is it?

Has any zero boiloff tank ever been made?

For long term, deep space missions using LH2, we really need active refrigeration units.

From my understanding of the problems involved, I can totally imagine a zero-boiloff oxygen tank. Hydrogen, however, is way out there: future tech.

Problem a) I've read some specs for NASA hydrogen storage and it put great emphasis on minimizing the number of welds and fittings. Each of them is expected to be a slow leak because H2 is so insanely volatile.

Problem In order to refrigerate hydrogen, you need a coolant that works down to 20K. Apart from using the hydrogen itself, I can only think of helium, which poses similar problems WRT volatility. A bog-standard compressor-expander fridge will have lots of fittings, by the way: see problem a).

Incidentally, I suggest you read up on how we go about hydrogen liquefaction IRL. The process is totally unsuitable for use on a space craft.

[JT2227]

Is it?

From my understanding of the problems involved, I can totally imagine a zero-boiloff oxygen tank. Hydrogen, however, is way out there: future tech.

Problem a) I've read some specs for NASA hydrogen storage and it put great emphasis on minimizing the number of welds and fittings. Each of them is expected to be a slow leak because H2 is so insanely volatile.

Problem In order to refrigerate hydrogen, you need a coolant that works down to 20K. Apart from using the hydrogen itself, I can only think of helium, which poses similar problems WRT volatility. A bog-standard compressor-expander fridge will have lots of fittings, by the way: see problem a).

Incidentally, I suggest you read up on how we go about hydrogen liquefaction IRL. The process is totally unsuitable for use on a space craft.

Well I hope something is figured out, I'll have to keep looking into the problem.

I'd love to see some active refrigeration with realfuels.

*Edit* and yes, I do believe it is, the tanks only last 100 days but maybe that is just due to a lack of refrigeration.

Edited October 14, 2015 by JT2227