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[1.4.*] [2.5.3] (2018-04-06) UbioZur Welding Ltd. Continued


girka2k
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Hi, I've run into a curious effect of welding KIS inventory modules. If there is one KIS inventory module in the weldement, it appears to function (at least in the VAB) as you would expect, but when I have two such parts there is a curious behavior when you open the inventory in the VAB. I've only tested with one particular part ("K&K Container for big Parts" from the PlanetaryBaseInc mod), so I can only say for sure this happens with that part; but I suspect it affects any parts using the KIS inventory system.

The base part I'm using allows 2500 L or storage with an n x m grid of parts where n and m are both 5, so it allows 25 slots in a 5 x 5 grid. When I have one such part in my weldement that's what I get. When I have two of them, the max volume is correctly doubled to 5000 L, but the part grid is now 10 x 10, when I think it should be wither 10 x 5 or 5 x 10 (50 slots, not 100 slots). Also, and very curious, the graphic size of each slot is also quadrupled. That shouldn't be changing at all. Each KIS inventory slot should be a fixed standard graphical size when displayed on the screen. There's no reason the graphical display size should be increased. I'm not saying there's no reason it is increased (obviously there must be some reason for that). I'm saying that's an undesirable and incorrect result of making the weldement.
 

The obvious workaround is add KIS inventory parts to the list of don't have more than one of these, but since these are basically similar to other resource containers it sure would be nice to have things work properly when there is more than one.

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This is a very nice feature, i just have a question. Is it possible just to reload the MOD parts list that is needed for the weld itself and not the whole data base. The reason that i ask is because i have quite a few mods and it takes a very long time to reload the database in game or even to reload the game itself. And please forgive me if this is noob question. Thanks 

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19 hours ago, schlosrat said:

The obvious workaround is add KIS inventory parts to the list of don't have more than one of these, but since these are basically similar to other resource containers it sure would be nice to have things work properly when there is more than one.

Update: I've found it's possible to hand edit the resulting CFG files to get things sorted out. The values to edit are these:

        slotsX = 5
        slotsY = 5
        slotSize = 50
        itemIconResolution = 128
        selfIconResolution = 128
 

The values shown above are for a single KIS container, but if you were to put two of those in your weldament, each of those values would get doubled, when in fact the only thing that should change is that slotsX and slotsY should be values that multiply to equal the sum of total slots from the two parts. So in this case if welding together two parts with values like those above, all you'd need to do is change either (but not Both!) SlotsX or slotsY to be 10. I believe the other three parameters should not be changed when welding two or more KIS parts together.

Edited by schlosrat
correct typo
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On ‎11‎.‎12‎.‎2016 at 7:00 PM, mechanicH said:

This is a very nice feature, i just have a question. Is it possible just to reload the MOD parts list that is needed for the weld itself and not the whole data base. The reason that i ask is because i have quite a few mods and it takes a very long time to reload the database in game or even to reload the game itself. And please forgive me if this is noob question. Thanks 

Sorry but nope, afaik there is no way to just reload specific parts, but I have been wrong in the past.

On ‎12‎.‎12‎.‎2016 at 0:30 PM, schlosrat said:

Update: I've found it's possible to hand edit the resulting CFG files to get things sorted out. The values to edit are these:

        slotsX = 5
        slotsY = 5
        slotSize = 50
        itemIconResolution = 128
        selfIconResolution = 128
 

The values shown above are for a single KIS container, but if you were to put two of those in your weldament, each of those values would get doubled, when in fact the only thing that should change is that slotsX and slotsY should be values that multiply to equal the sum of total slots from the two parts. So in this case if welding together two parts with values like those above, all you'd need to do is change either (but not Both!) SlotsX or slotsY to be 10. I believe the other three parameters should not be changed when welding two or more KIS parts together.

That sounds like it would require a new method; of merging the modules...
Have you just tried to add the KIS module to the list of doubling modules? that way you would keep the separate modules each with the distinctive values.

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On ‎13‎.‎12‎.‎2016 at 5:51 PM, mechanicH said:

Would this mod help with that. I was just looking around and stumbled on to this. Just wondering if this might help.

Based on the description no, it would allow a restartless reloading of the mod, but not the reloading of single parts.
That would be a feature of MM, and and KSP itself. KSP has a hook for db reloading and MM uses it for the module merging and reloading.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Need support, please. 
KSP version 1.1.2 - mod version 2.3.3

Not sure why this is happening but, Ive got several tube segments connected together Twekscaled down to a diameter of 0.300m. I grab the root part (ctrl + LMB) because I want all parts to be welded as one, but for some reason, it does this:

http://imgur.com/a/Bm1yi

It seems like the root part's tweaked size, well, breaks?

Thanks for any assistance. Let me know if further details are needed. 

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8 hours ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

Need support, please. 
KSP version 1.1.2 - mod version 2.3.3

Not sure why this is happening but, Ive got several tube segments connected together Twekscaled down to a diameter of 0.300m. I grab the root part (ctrl + LMB) because I want all parts to be welded as one, but for some reason, it does this:

http://imgur.com/a/Bm1yi

It seems like the root part's tweaked size, well, breaks?

Thanks for any assistance. Let me know if further details are needed. 

Scaling is in that version still a problem, there is not much I can do, but to recommend that you use actual KSP and updated Ubiowelding mod, this problem was fixed about 4 versions further.
Sorry that I can't assist you more.

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6 hours ago, Alewx said:

Scaling is in that version still a problem, there is not much I can do, but to recommend that you use actual KSP and updated Ubiowelding mod, this problem was fixed about 4 versions further.
Sorry that I can't assist you more.

No actually, this is quite alright! This does solve the issue. I just havent upgraded since I was waiting for all of my mods to update. 

Thanks

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6 hours ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

No actually, this is quite alright! This does solve the issue. I just havent upgraded since I was waiting for all of my mods to update. 

Thanks

That takes always quite some time.

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Quote

_entryCost += (int)newpart.partInfo.entryCost;

Should the research cost of a welded part be the sum of the research cost of its components as it is now? In my opinion it makes more sense for this number to be much lower if not 0. The research on how to make the part is done already.  Why is there research to be done on welding them together? Of course I can edit the part file but it seems that this may have just been a quick fix or oversight given that many players don't use the R&D entry purchase price difficulty option. In a perfect world this could be changed in the settings window of the welder.

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1 hour ago, wreckerbal said:

Should the research cost of a welded part be the sum of the research cost of its components as it is now? In my opinion it makes more sense for this number to be much lower if not 0. The research on how to make the part is done already.  Why is there research to be done on welding them together? Of course I can edit the part file but it seems that this may have just been a quick fix or oversight given that many players don't use the R&D entry purchase price difficulty option. In a perfect world this could be changed in the settings window of the welder.

When you're in the VAB/SPH, it's a completely separate part.  You don't have to unlock all the components that it's made of and can just unlock the welded part.  You could even stick the welded part in an entirely different tech node from some of the origin parts (or all of them if you edit the .cfg file afterwards).

I usually create a welded part out of one copy of each different item that I'm welding together to get a base research cost, then I add about 20-30% on top of that to represent the advantage of having fewer part counts on the final vessel.  Then that will be the research cost that I use for the final product.  Or I'll base the research cost as being about 3x the cost of using the part.

2 hours ago, SlabGizor117 said:

So I can't weld any parts with crew hatches on them?  Because I'm building a space station made of mostly crew hatched parts.  Does that also include mk1 passenger parts which have hatches on the ends but aren't exposed when lined up?

You can only have (1) crew hatch per "part" (welded or otherwise, it's a KSP limitation).  So don't weld together two parts that both have crew hatches.  Not sure about the Mk1 passenger parts that look like they have hatches (but might not).  When in doubt as to whether a part has a crew hatch or just a cosmetic hatch, build a craft with just that part, fill it with kerbals and stick it on the runway and try to EVA.

For instance, I have the MPL (science lab) welded at the middle of a long stick (about the length of three or four Jumbo-64s).  All of the other weldings on that part are non-crewed pieces like fuel tanks, RCS tanks, reaction wheels, BZ-2 surface node plates, and 2.5m batteries.  I use it for my station's core so I don't need to attach all those bits individually.

I recommend always making sure that the crew hatch ends up near the CoG of the final welded part.  Might not be needed, but I've always done it that way.

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2 hours ago, WuphonsReach said:

Not sure about the Mk1 passenger parts that look like they have hatches (but might not).  When in doubt as to whether a part has a crew hatch or just a cosmetic hatch, build a craft with just that part, fill it with kerbals and stick it on the runway and try to EVA.

It does, I checked.  Functioning and everything

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On ‎20‎.‎01‎.‎2017 at 11:20 PM, SlabGizor117 said:

So I can't weld any parts with crew hatches on them?  Because I'm building a space station made of mostly crew hatched parts.  Does that also include mk1 passenger parts which have hatches on the ends but aren't exposed when lined up?

I can only agree in the workflow with @WuphonsReach in the use of hatches. it is very much a KSP limitation like many other things where it is only designed to take the only possible or first found object of a certain kind.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Alewx,

Odd question......was there any major change between version 2.3.3 and 2.5.0? I ask because under KSP 1.1.3 and the Welding mod 2.3.3, I could weld RCS nozzles and they would work just fine (both functionality and visuals...puffs of mist visible during use). However, under KSP 1.2.2 and Welding 2.5.0 RCS seems to break when welded. You get exactly one action with the welded RCS and then it compeletely stops working and there is no visible puff od mist ever). Only asking because I had a ton of welded modules with RCS and now they no longer work. Just wondering if there was something obvious that you might recall that would have changed to cause this.

Thanks!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Helbrecht said:

When I finally figured out how to weld it, now all my parts are colored weirdly and flickering, is it because of interstellar fuel switch? its like they have 12 different color schemes all at once on them.

Parts with fuel / texture switching tend not to weld well.  You can probably edit the resulting part .cfg file to fix the issue.

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2 hours ago, Helbrecht said:

When I finally figured out how to weld it, now all my parts are colored weirdly and flickering, is it because of interstellar fuel switch? its like they have 12 different color schemes all at once on them.

Would this be one of the SpaceY tanks? I haven't figured out how to prevent them from flickering.

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I do have SpaceY but the part in question is a tweaked Orange Jumbo tank. I found that tweakscale doesn't work all that well with the welded mod installed, I have a really nifty payload launch system and it has tweaked parts, and now when I load it up the parts are all default size and the craft collapses on itself, idk if i have to remake the craft after installing the mod or if it breaks tweakscale.

Edit: ColorCodedCanisters was to blame for the flickering, going to see if I can find a work around for it since I like having the different color schemes.

Edited by Helbrecht
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