Aedile

I can confirm memory error with TACLS and x64. Works fine until the time you get in the x64 mem range.

Tank is critical. However you try to put realism in ksp, while keeping its unrealistic assumptions. You make the assumption that hydrogen tank is same as rp1 tank, or ox tank. Yes if you make 14 times bigger tank it will be much heavier. Tank design is very complicated matter, namely picking the wall thickness. The tank needs to withstand its own weight, obviously. Then it needs to withstand the weight of it's contents, as well as the GForces, deformation forces etc. I suppose you can figure out that 1500m3 of LH2 weighing only 100ton would need a thinner wall than 1500m3 rp1 weighing 1500tons. Well if we need to go that deep, thin solid wall, and pretty thick insulation. You apply the RL logic for the size, but ignore the RL logic of the tanks and engines. Both real and mod fuels have concept of the internal tanks actually having weight, but at least MF which I use, keep the ridiculous weight of the external tank shell. Then as you probably know, the ratio (by mass) H2 engines use is not 45/55. Aaand there is the assumption, that units have anything to do with volume to begin with. Look at space shuttle tank - (the super light one) - 1/4th of volume is LOX, 6/7 of the weight. 3/4th is LH2 1/6th of the weight. The only thing to imply volume, is the property being called density - but then again, EC has density too. Again, I'm not debating LF being LH2, just the fact that there is no benefit that KSPI treats it as such when producing it. Compared with stock there is no difference whatsoever. You get absolutely same fuel as stock. Only 60% of the water is usable, and water tanks are just as heavy. So absolutely 0 sense of bringing water to space and produce fuel there. The reason why CO2 is not used, is because it's available only 4 places. Compared with kethane/karbonite - 60% of water useful, not every body has water. (only 4 actually have co2). You can actually scoop fuel from atmospheres which has it (which other than jool is almost nothing). If we are talking about RL - like I said earlier - RL hydrolox tank 760 tons total, 26 tons empty. So well, lol For some reason you insist that is cheaty, and the very same stock engines and tanks kspi uses should be 14 times bigger and heavier. I really don't follow the logic. I know integration already exists. I know you are great guy, I'm not disputing that. I'm just pointing out a misconception. Relax You can actually do that also on your launchpad or runway. So it's cheat. I don't do it, but I remember discussion of which is the most profitable part to produce.. Yes I am. I'm pointing out the subjectivity of "cheaty", and I know you'll find purists claiming that. I consider all those essential, if they are not there, I'll refuse to play FAR will shave 1km/s to kirbin orbit and around 3km/s at eve. Makes lots of things harder, but 1km/s. ferram4 released KIDS for reason (great mod, if you set isp to vary thrust rather than fuel consumption) Alarm clock - lets you manage interstellar empire, which in stock is nigh impossible. Also gives you transfer windows. Precise node - lets you input numbers, making interplanetary transfers much easier. Also lets you increase the conics steps... Kerbal engineer - helps you build really efficient craft. And not having that flight info is like driving a car blind. Real chutes - well I admit I havent used stock chutes after the joint fixes, but before that they loved to rip your stuff apart. Also the drogues and drags are just godsend. That is not the only, it's one of them. There are may differences with RL, I was talking in sense of other configurations in ksp. KSP engines are heavy - you want that engine boosting, instead of playing dead weight, even if you use them under their isp. KSP tanks are heavy - you want to drop them as soon as possible.

Completely didn't see this one coming. Many thanks Ok, seems I was overexcited... I am running pretty heavily modded game x64. Adding this causes game to crash when starting/loading a career game. Sandbox works just fine. Shame.

As far as chemistry is concerned, it's all about molar mass. Specific impulse also uses mass. This is why a hydrolox ingine can use so much more fuel (in volume), and still have almost the same or better ISP. Volume does not matter, other than the size of the tank, and other technical aspects, such as pump pressures etc. KSP models ISP really poorly, so does units and tank weighs. The 1unit being 1L or 5L is quite a stretch. Thing is you really cannot know. Planets are 10 times smaller than their mass would imply. Engines are much heavier than they should be. Tanks are much heavier than they should be. They are ridiculously heavy the 2.5m white barrel is 2 tons empty. Who is to say that in weird KSP world 1l of LF does not weigh 5kg? I'm still waiting to see where is the supposed cheaty part KSPI water to LF, other than the wonky chemistry, which every mod seems to employ. KSPI preserves the mass, and as I said you actually have a big overproduction of OX which you need to vent off. Not every planet has water, and the refinery/extractor itself need a generator, and it's pretty bulky to begin with. If you ever played it you'll know that you cannot just go to another planet, refuel at lowest gravity sattelite, and move on. Some places you can make LFO, others you can make monoprop etc. That being said I haven't used KSPI for really long time, as i feel it has many other cheaty things, mainly the plasma engines, power network etc. Can easily build 40 km/s dv craft. Neither i have used kethane for that matter. But all this is irrelevant for ORS. It just defines, or lets you define resources. There is also some resources community has agreed to add and share, so we don't have 10 types of water etc. So some people are asking that EL will use ORS ore, and leave to them to find out the method of producing fuel, and decide how cheaty their game should be. If you think about it, with contracts and budgets, EL is quite cheaty. You can mass produce gravometers at minmus (8.8k each) and send them back to kirbin. You can produce any infrastructure you need on site etc. Most mods are cheaty to some extent, some would say FAR is cheaty. Even kerbal clock, precise node, engineer, real chute. Then again, I'd say that asparagus is cheaty, as it exploits shortcomings of vanila KSP - Too heavy tanks, too heavy engines, tanks getting empty earlier then should - all benefiting asparagus.

You can find it same place as the lite version, but for some reason last nonlite version is not working for me.

He3, thorium, charged particles are gone as far as I saw, so are generator types etc... And since I cant get any other version of kspi working for some reason, I guess I'll be just using conventional propulsion from now on.

All due respect, but you have no problem with kethane being cheaty and it's chemistry making no sense. You have problem with density being wrong, but no issue with some super duper element transmogrification. In addition vanilla ksp units are not liters, 1 unit LF weighs exactly as much as one unit of OX - 5kg... I agree LH is not H2, It cannot be H2, as KSP engines are 45% LF 55% LOX (by mass), which is not the correct ratio. The fact that the jet engines also use it is the second clue of being kerosene/rp-1, but fuel ratio is pretty off for that as well... Could be hydrazine (talking about toxic), udmh and N204 for oxidizer. 10 tons of LH2 weighs exactly same as 10 tons of anything else... The only difference will come from the tank weight. However looking that a RL tank which holds 100t LH2 (1479m3) and 630t LOX (553m3) weighs only 27 ton. A ksp tank which holds 100t LF weighs 15t. Any clue how much a tank holding 600t LOX weighs? Yup - 90. Honestly, unless using realism overhaul, all this volume/density discussions are completely pointless. KSPI does not make tanks fit more LF then they do in vanilla, neither changes how much engines consume. Now this is important - the engine needs 45/55 ratio, but the isru refinery will produce something like 20/80, so it makes completely no sense to refine anywhere else but the place of water extraction, otherwise you'll be carrying 40% oxidiser you don't need. So the fact which you claim makes it cheaty, in fact makes it less so.. So yes magical water or magical kethane, where is the 1400% cheat? There are many cheaty things about KSPI, but honestly water to LF is the least cheaty one. Also I don't know what cheaty there is about ORS. ORS does not define any converters or such, neither does it define any parts. So it does not imply what LF is whatsoever. ORS has nothing to fix about LF being H2...

Honestly I really dislike this as compared with the full version. No charged particles, reactors have almost no difference. Generators have almost no difference. I'll stick to the full version, hopefully someone picks it up...

So... in the Lite version... Are now the whole charged particle, different generator type stuff completely gone? Also the generator modes, thorium etc... Guess that's a bit too lite for my taste.

While yours is more interesting and original I'll put my version here - Guy sees a favorite mod is updated, downloads and installs it. Favorite mod has the 2.2.1 MM bundled, guy does not go read MM update history. Guy starts game, and is presented with a dialog. Guy has no clue what the dialog is about, and incorrectly concludes that an error has occurred. Guy hits reload database but the dialog persists - guy restarts game, to realize, all parts are unreached, and vessels cannot be loaded. Luckily he had a backup. Guy finds out, that there was no real problem to begin with, and is annoyed that had his fun time wasted. Guy is being called a jerk for pointing out a potential issue. Sarbian, for peaces sake, if something is not ready to be consumed from the general public, tell mod creators not to bundle it. It's better for everyone.

Ok, really, just put it as an option. There is no reason it should reappear all the time, and there are at least 3 good easy ways to toggle a dialog. Also mod creators seem to bundle it, so it's rarely the end user's uncontrollable urge to upgrade.

For most planets complete 100% coverage with some redundancy is achieved with 6 sats, 3 equatorial - 3 polar. If you don't care about polar regions, 3 will be enough. If you got access to the long range antenna, this is easily achieved. In fact we do discuss this in the beginning of this thread. Edit - your sats need not to be from the stationary type either. In fact if ising 5000km antenna, 2000km over Kirbin is the altitude which which will provide you with highest drift room.

Kinland: A small rather unknown nation. Kerbals from this part of the world are known for their comm specialists. Good comms are essential for the Kinns, as one misheard letter can completely change the meaning of a word. In addition, they make great kerbonauts, due to their natural cold tolerance, coupled with great heat tolerance, developed in hot steamy rooms.

Sorry if this has been asked before - but have you looked at the cost balance or?

It is not about the IP address it's about the other stuff, such as tracking customer behavior. We have even a law about tracking cookies. A lot of companies can tell you pretty strict laws exist, and we have spent loads of effort complying with them. Don't get me started on 3rd parties collecting usage information. In any case gathering any information which can be considered anyhow personal without user consent is poor taste. Honestly WTF does how long I play or spend on each screen help mod developers? I am disappointing to see even people like ferram pulling this crap . I know more than well how to block this traffic, but that's not the point.

No I just added it to my antivirus and is deleted right away. It breaks both data collection and data retention regulations.

Half the stuff it collects is rather useless. It's like the neighbor granny tracking what you do. Which honestly annoys me even more. Personally I don't care why he or anyone would need that info. What I know is, I won't let it exist on my machine.

Definitely not using anything bundling this crap. It breaks a good number of EU laws, so it is, and any mods bundling it, unfit for use in the EU. I really hope this info somehow helps the mod. Personally I don't see how when I start/end my game and how much time I spend in each scene could help improve any mod. Just effing annoying dll, which monitors you for the sake of doing so, without any particular use. How much or how I play the game is nobody's business and it rather pisses me off that some random guy decides they have the right to know that information. Not to mention a good number of EU laws this happens to break.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't trust some random guy. Even if he was honest, there is still the problem of how secure the collected data is. Not to mention the old tactic of replacing a known .dll with a malicious one. Well, will not be using mods which require this. The laws are there for a reason.

Will this work without the stupid mod-statistic stuff?

While placing sats you have generally 2 things to consider. Planetary coverage/shadow and the distance to other sats. You want your network to be simple, and allow for drift. (there is of course the issue with antennas breaking in atmosphere). So for absolute coverage anywhere on the planet surface you will need 3 equatorial, and 3 polar sats (provided you have long enough omni antennas to place. The things which will matter are of course planet radius, sat altitude, antenna range, and the phase angle. If we are talking about a single sat covering planetary surface. For example, altitude equal to planet radius (counting from ASL, so in fact 2R). This will cover 120 degrees (from the circle). This will be the maximum phase angle between 2 sats, and you'll have 60 degree bald spot on the poles. If you increase your altitude to 2R (3R from center), you'll cover 141, 3R(4Rfrom center) - 151 and so on. I'll recommend a mod called Kerbulator. It's great for doing math ingame, (even though you'll need to inpiut the formulas yourself, once). Once you do that, you can just run it for given planet and altitude and antenna, and see the max phase angle for coverage, the uncovered angle at the poles. You could also use it to calculate the required sat distance for given angle. These are pretty basic one liner trigonometry funcs. IIRC (assuming infinite antenna range, as connecting to other sats will generally require greater range) happens to be approximately 2*arccos(R/(R+altitude)). While the distance for given phase angle is 2(R+altitude)*sin(angle/2) Edit: few more tips... There is a sweetspot. For example let's use 3 sats around kirbin, and the 5000km range antenna. Your the altitude allowing for maximum drift, happens to be around 2000km, your sats will remain connected up to 150 degrees (some 30 degree drift).

The thing is they can drift for years before they disconnect. Unless they are too far 1 sat will cover half planet. So as long as you have 1 sat between them to connect them, you can leave them to drift very long time. The other thing is no matter your configuration, they will drift apart to some extent, so the fewer sats you got, the better. The problem will generally won't be the precision of KER, (using semimajor will give you pretty good precision for large orbits) but the sensitivity of the controls (rcs), if you have signal delay, oh well. You can use Kerbulator for high precision readout, or kOS to do it automatic semimajor match(program you'll need is just few lines), and you'll still have problem matching them completely. As lazy person, I just tend to fix them if they disconnect and I'll be performing mission nearby, which usually takes a decade or so. The drift problems we are having are nothing compared with what we'd face in reality, so I take it as degree of realism, challenging me to figure out simple network which works well despite of drift. You'll likely have other things in orbit too to provide redundancy. Likely scansat/kethane sat space station. Depending on how many other mods you happen to be using, and the degree of re usability you prefer, how comfortable you are with orbital rendezvous. F.ex I usually use few nuclear tug/skycranes and they are hanging in orbit for ages. In any case 3 sats will need less work than 10. One of the other reasons I prefer 3 sat configs is dish management. Say you send a probe to eve. Most omni antennas with big enough range will just break in atmosphere. So I place 2 dishes on the probe, and connect each one to a sat. I'll have at least one connection going. What if I had 4 or 5 sats? Where do I point the probe's dishes? You might be fine putting 10+ sats in Kirbin system, but the amount of work (and dv) you'll need to do this around moho, dres or the Joolian moons is just much more than fixing your sats every 10 years or so. My intent is not to tell how to play the game 'properly', but to show there is simple, low-maintenance configuration, and how you can reduce the drift, or problems it causes. Sure if the mod would keep them in sync would be nice. Truth to be told, I do this from laziness, as part of my flyby missions, or asteroid redirection, as well as having few stages from interplanetary trips serving as sats, one antenna pointed to active craft, other to a huge antenna array in solar orbit similar to kirbins. I put it there, as powering some 20 dishes can end up badly if you load it and happens to be dark. It depends on the planet really. For example joolian moons have a 'harmony', and you can use that in your benefit. One polar sat on highly elliptical inclined orbit will give you pretty good coverage. Two sats on 90+ degree inclined orbit, should be generally enough, with your major problem still being the sun (and some extent other planets, but this happens really rarely (if at all?). Still if you are planning on actually landing a probe, you'd likely send a command center along (unless you have delay off) Then there is always kOS. Not sure how well it plays with current version of RT, but it used to be pretty great for sat maintenance and unmanned missions (especially rovers). Though turning off delay or sending command center is easiest way if you are planning unmanned landings. I don't really think there is any way to drive a rover with big delay without kOS to be honest.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. Play as you see fit. This is most certainly pretty hardcore mod. Signal is not blocked by relief (as far as I know), so 3 sat configuration works just fine, and is by far the simplest to build and maintain, and gives you almost 100% coverage. Math is pretty easy too, you need the minimum altitude - which for 3 sat is the radius of the planet. The higher away you put them, the less precise you need to be with the phase. If you put them at 750km round kirbin (2500km antenna), you'll need to be precise, or fix them often. If you put them at 2000km (you'll need the 5000km antenna), they can drift much further before the planet blocks them off. The other thing to "calculate" is the distance between the sats. You don't want your omni antennas to go out of range. This also tells you how far they can drift apart before they disconnect. This is pretty easy calculation as well, but if you can't be bothered with trigonometry, just take the antenna range, divide it by two, and subtract the planet radius. This will give you relative clue about how much drift room you got. I am not sure what is tedious about matching periods. As I said, 3 or 4 sats are more than enough if you put them on the right height . You say most people can't be bothered, I'd say takes much less time and effort to match 3 orbits than any alternative. Again, atmospheric issues and huge planets excluded, 3 sats will do just fine, you might get very small uncovered points on the surface of the poles, but that's about it. Adding 2 polar sats will make sure that does not happen. In reality I have found out you don't need them. I really think I could never make the effort to add more than 5 comsats around any planet other than Kirbin, and 3 around any moon. We are not talking about n-body mechanics here, but matching periods. Anybody who has ever made an orbital rendezvous knows the concept of orbital period, and how to increase or decrease it. Match 2 numbers, it's really as simple as that. All it requires is getting the sat in the roughly the needed distance from the other sat (which you need to do one way or another, you can just eyeball this), orienting prograde and nudging it with rcs until the 2 periods match. This is difficult or impossible to do with signal delay, but you can easily use manned mission or a node. If you are using a node, you need Pe+Ap (the sum) to match, which will cause your semi-major axis (which is half of that) and therefore period to match. Your apoaps and periaps don't need to match, your sats will oscillate, but will not drift apart if they have the same period. I cannot understand someone will go through the trouble of installing this mod, launching satellites, getting them connected, and will not bother a minute to match their periods. (Edit: you might get more precision matching semi-major in some cases) You don't need your sats to be exactly 120 degrees apart either, your phase wiggle room will depend on your altitude. As far as interplanetary communication goes, easiest way is solar orbit close to the planet's, with similar period. Pretty easily accomplished as well. If you manage to put it on slightly inclined orbit, you can prevent some 3rd bodies blocking it. In any case, the sun will block direct communication between 2 planets at some points, other planets and moons can cause this as well , this is most notable around Jool. I usually make network only around the moons, with 2 interplanetary sats. In fact one of the biggest issues you will face with this mod is signal delay, and powering your active vessel. If you are building bases, you'll need some generators. At one point had the great idea of control base on Laythe. Turned out pretty poor idea, as I did not bring generators. Night is rather long, not only that, but you'll get eclipse from Jool, Vall, Tylo.

There are 2 reasons where you'll lose connection. The planets breaks it, or antennas are out of range. Using long range omni antennas allow for considerable amount of drift. The 5000km antennas placed on satellites at 2000km around kirbin, will allow for quite large drift before they get blocked (some 40 degree, from the intended position), and the third sat will connect them even then. You'll start losing coverage when all 3 sats are (almost) at the same side of the planet. So no, not a big problem, if you set up things correctly. But yes you need to either do some math (if ap+pe is same for your sats they shouldn't drift by much) , or use something like KER VOID or MJ to tell your period/semimajor axis If your sat is superlight, I suggest using the single thruster rcs (its front one back), it's really easy to mess up your perfect orbit turning around.

Generally speaking you need 3 sats (their altitude should be at least the planet's radius, but the closer you are the more precise you'll need to be), as long as you have antenna with long enough range. Drift is easily avoidable, all you need is to have same period (semimajor axis), and inclination. This is a bit more difficult to achieve on low gravity worlds (Gilly is almost impossible even without signal delay). However since they are smaller, they allow for pretty big drift, also since drift happens each orbit, slower orbits will drift slower. A 3 sat on 750km over Kirbin can easily stay in sync for at least 60 years. If you have signal delay on, you probably will need a few extra tools, such as precise node. You will likely need control station or kOS for such a precision on other planets, or just a manned misson to deploy each sat. Same applies for stationary sats. Even though they won't be strictly stationary, as long as your inclination is around 0, and your period same as the planet, you'll be fine. They are much more difficult to keep on place though, as the inclination will cause drift. Haven't found any particular use of these to be honest. The easiest way to deploy them, is do all 3 in the same mission. Get in desired "circular" orbit. Deploy one. Get the mothership on eccentric orbit in such a way, that after 1 or 2 orbits, you'll be on the needed angle. You can do this with a node, paying attention to the distance. Decouple the other 2. Wait for position, circularize second orbit, wait, circularize third. What is important is your period, orbits needn't match, other than the inclination. You need 2 dishes to each moon/planet to connect different sat systems. 2 of the three sats will be visible at any time (provided third body is not between), so at least one of the dishes will connect. The time you need more than 3 sats is too big body (eg. jool/kerbol), or bodies with atmosphere. Most omni antennas will break under high dynamic pressure, so you'll probably need more than 3 for eve/kirbin/laythe landing probes/planes. You'll need quite a constellation in fact. I have found that adding one of the unbreakable dishes to your craft is much better solution. Easiest way for interplanetary communication is solar orbit close to the planetary one, but apart from kirbin, this is not particularly easy to accomplish. Eccentric polar orbit with Pe at one of the poles works pretty good as well. In any case, you might want some redundant connections, in case other planets/moons come in between, and most notably kerbol. You are best off with control stations (easily accomplished even with LS mods), so only blackouts you'll generally get will be relevant to science transmissions.