vosechu

@Albert VDS, I wanted to let you know that I love, love, love this mod. And my wife loves controlling my hubble around and looking at the milky way, it's super awesome! The only thing I've not been able to do is see remote planets, for some reason, when I zoom in they disappear. I know I've got them nailed, I've been using MechJeb to target, then doing a super controlled rcs to get them in field. And they zoom in for a while, you can tell because they don't pixelate like the skybox behind them, but when I zoom too far they just fade out and disappear. My worry is that this was a conflict between Distant Object Enhancement and Hullcam, so I tried disabling DOE but then I just don't see anything when I zoom in. I suppose I could have been zooming in on the DOE object, but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong; the objects from the intro video are so beautiful! Oh, side note, the Moon looks awesome, but I wasn't able to zoom in nearly as far as in the video. I'm using Realism Overhaul and Real Solar System, so that could be a huge part of it too. Any thoughts? Or anything I can do to help diagnose?

How do people feel about the hullcam vds mod? I don't want to add it if others can't use it or don't want it, but I think it adds something spectacularly real to the game when it's used right. I also ask because I'd like to add a hubble probe around Earth. I guess it'll just deactivate the probe if you don't have the mod, so that's not too bad. Similar question around SCANSat, I realized last night that my MRO satellite had included SCANSat but maybe I need to have some Mars satellites that only require RT2 and nothing else. Thoughts? - - - Updated - - - Btw, I turned on scatters at max, and also the 8k textures for RSS. The textures do in fact make the planet more interesting, but I don't see any new scatters. So I don't know if that's a thing or if Duna just doesn't have terrain scatters or something. The only problem is that the 8k textures only let me boot about 1/4 of the time. It often runs out of memory for me. So, I can look at ATM or something, but I'm worried that will just reduce the heavy textures I just loaded in. More experimentation needed.

I looked at Mars surface yesterday by crashing my satellite into the ground and learned some things. First, there are huge swaths of Mars that really are just boring and flat. My understanding is the the northern plains are young and undisturbed. But the bits by the Arian(sp?) mountains is much more interesting. So at least that makes the challenge to find a landing site more obvious to me, "find a site that's not incredibly boring" The second thing I learned in that we most likely have terrain scatter turned off which will make the whole thing much more interesting. It severely impacts performance so most people keep it off (at least that's my understanding). So tonight I'm going to try the 8k terrain textures, with ground scatter turned up to 11, and I'm going to land between a couple mountains. I'll let you know how it goes.

Whew, finally got my Mars Recon Orbiter in place tonight and uploaded the savegame. https://github.com/vosechu/ksp-mars-ro-challenge/releases/tag/vosechu-ro This has 4x GPS satellites in geostationary orbit around earth, 4x polar satellites at a very high altitude (probably unnecessary since I can't make them heliosyncronous), and one SCANSat around Duna in a 93degree inclination orbit. I've never tried this before, but hopefully it makes it easier for people to start with the challenge! @DBowman: I'll have to check out the 8k textures for RSS. I think my machine couldn't handle them the first time, but I'll see if I can do it in opengl mode or something. If that doesn't work, I'll ask the RSS makers and see what they suggest (if it's even something we can deal with. I don't know anything about how the textures are done so it'll be a learning experience for me! Also, thank you again for taking a look at the scoring system. Your response to cadaverific and Kibble was perfect and exactly what I would have said; it's a huge relief to know that you're helping and we're totally pulling the same direction! @cadaverific / @Kibble: Welcome to the thread! We're still sorting out the details, as you can tell, so please let us know what makes the challenge interesting to you. If you have recommendations about challenges or their requirements, that would be very much appreciated! Delving into the DRA5 to get details is very time consuming!

Wow. I just checked out these two threads about running this exact challenge, but only doing it in stock and only doing it for one location. We're definitely undertaking something significant, but ultimately I think we're doing something vastly cooler than has been done before. Stock version, great imgur album: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92434-Duna-Constellation-mission-pack-0-90-broke-some-parts-1-0-rebuild-coming-soon Modded version, great video: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/40559-All-craft-from-my-Constellation-mission-vid It's fascinating how similar they are. I don't know if that's because of the DRA5 or the stock version was inspired by the modded version. - - - Updated - - - This is really helpful Kiwa and I think you're right on. One of the ideas we had talked about was the idea of various levels of completeness for a particular challenge. For instance, for the comms network savegame challenge, a bronze might be a couple sats that can technically reach Mars and one satellite at mars, silver might be a group of geosync satellites at Earth with the right number of satellites at Mars, and gold might be replicas or something. I guess the point I want to get to is: Bronze: technically allows the mission to go forward, but may be deficient in a number of ways Silver: some additional care towards the challenge that will make things more pleasant in some aspect Gold: clearly this is something that people care about and are willing to really go for in order to make people's missions more educational, pleasant, or realistic. It was also pointed out that we need to accomplish this for both RO and for Stock-hardmode (and maybe Stock pure if we want to do that). Having a gold in RO doesn't really help the stock people at all, so they're different savegames and different challenges. Does that make it seem any more fun Kiwa? - - - Updated - - - I wanted to put two things in writing: first, I love this. Second, I nominate you for officially being the head of primary score research and development. I'm having trouble groking the numbers, but it all seemed pretty reasonable to me. Right now I feel so mired in thinking about how the hell to get things off this damn planet; I can't even think about the scoring aspect. That said, I know that it's HUGELY important, and I can't thank you enough for doing this research and work! If you're willing to take it on, I'd love to put your words in the top post when you think you have something ready to go up there. (/me wishes, yet again, that you could edit the top post) I didn't understand the bit about a PR + LS is a mobile home? What did you mean by that? On Thursday I took some time to get a basic RO savegame working and I'll upload it today. I don't have any of the Mars orbiters actually in orbit yet, but I'll have one in orbit by the end of tonight. Also, I wanted to throw something by you for formatting advice. What do you think of this for the scores section (check out the spoilers for challenge #1): [table=align: left] [tr] [td]Challenge[/td] [td]Realism Overhaul[/td] [td]Stock Hardmode[/td] [td]Stock Pure[/td] [td]Links[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] Requirements, links, etc. [/td] [td]1023 by DBowman[/td] [td]1002 by vosechu[/td] [td]300 by Chuck's Cat[/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] We need to find a home, but we also need to understand how much RO's version of Mars is like the real Mars. So we need to evaluate sites using things like ScanSat and compare them with important features on the real mars. Ideally, we'll be able to use these sites to go out and actually put flags down on Duna in the right places! Your solutions will be used by almost everyone who attempts this challenge! Requirements: Broad flat area, 10-20km diameter Kerbal rover access to as many biomes and monuments as possible (within 100-200km) Robot access to areas of biological concern, recent craters, mid-latitude gullies, "pasted-on" terrain, thermal anomalies, very young volcanic rocks. Plentiful in-situ resources [/td] [td]Bronze[/td] [td][/td] [td]Silver[/td] [td] Solutions: Stock-hardmode xxx.xxN by xxx.xxW - username Realism Overhaul xxx.xxN by xxx.xxW - username [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] Requirements, links, etc. [/td] [td]Silver[/td] [td]Bronze[/td] [td]Gold[/td] [td] links, links, links [/td] [/tr] [/table] - - - Updated - - - Yes. It really is that wonky and inclined. Since space is relative, it's really earth that's the problem though, but I suspect that Kerbin's equator cannot be inclined, so everything else has to be. Phobos and Deimos are indeed funny little bastards though. I hear that you can achieve orbit by jumping; it's like 2m/s Lol, sounds like you played Kerbal. "Did a thing, exploded" Interesting that DRE was making you explode, I wonder if that's because of a hyperedit bug or if DRE is going to break us and nobody has ever noticed because it's so damned hard to get there. I'm glad that the landmarks are there. The screenshots are a little underwhelming though; I wonder if KSP just isn't able to draw proper scarps and meteor impact sites?

Fixed that for you. Isn't valentina supposed to be a big part of this release?

If you haven't seen the ribbon options, here's a screenshot. I'm guessing we could use any of these to assemble something, we'd just need to give them meaning if it was different from the meaning already in the generator: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s49/sh/9804f0ec-5b5d-4a66-b06c-2b9eefbeabe6/08f13a1ff991f7c41c94a4e58f3958b0 Here are some of the challenges I saw. I haven't posted them because it's a chore to do so, but I will eventually. Challenge #1 - Find candidates for landing sites Challenge #2 - Build a savegame w/ existing assets in place Challenge #3 - Create a model of the Ares V Heavy Lift Vehicle Challenge #4 - Create a model of a cargo transit vehicle (Cargo MTV) Challenge #5 - Create a model of a crewed transit vehicle (Crewed MTV) (needs work) Challenge #6 - Create a model of a common descent vehicle (needs work) Challenge #7 - Create a model of a CEV and the Ares I lifter (needs work) Challenge #8 - Create a model of an ascent vehicle (needs work) Challenge #9 - Create a model of an in-situ fuel and oxygen generator (needs work) Challenge #10 - Create a model of a robotic rovers and their delivery and unloading system (needs work) Challenge #11 - Create a model of an unpressurized rovers and their delivery and unloading system (needs work) Challenge #12 - Create a model of a pressurized rovers and their delivery and unloading system (needs work) Challenge #13 - Create a model of a on-ground habitat module (needs work) Challenge #14 - Create a beautiful mission badge which represents this awesome challenge (needs defining) Challenge #?? - Plant a flag on {{x}} super important anomaly (needs defining) Challenge #?? - Using models or your own craft, fly the mission (wow, this is like 16 other challenges or possibilities...) (needs defining) Challenge #?? - Using waypoint manager, define a mission of interest on the surface of Mars Now that I'm confronted with how many challenges this is I'm wondering whether the badge is composeable. I had intended to release one or two challenges each week so that people had a feeling of progress. What do you think about that idea? -- Update -- Just took a moment to throw a couple extra challenge descriptions on the front page if you have a moment to look at them. I also put a sub-challenge to make the Ares V as opposed to just a ship capable of lifting. Also, I realized that almost all the challenges are craft creation, but it seems like there's some pretty cool opportunities that are not just development. For example, I'd love to see some waypoint manager missions that have you trecking around and planting flags on important monuments. Or maybe I just need to propose a Contract Pack for this. Anyways, point is, there's more to the mission than building things, but I've been buried in the DRA5 so it's hard to extract from that.

I'm glad you like the extra dimension, and I also think you're dead on that we do need some kind of primary score. It's just too important to not have it and it's a thing that a lot of people are driven towards. It's important for me to remember that my desires are not the same as everyone else's! I absolutely love this. From the DRA5 I recall that the walking range was considered to be 20km and that an unpressurized rover was not considered a range extender, just basically a robot suit that helped them get their jobs done. I wonder how much ground you could cover in 30 days. Maybe it's not even ground coverage though, you might find some really fascinating spot and want to drill on it for the whole time? The pressurized rovers still had a max of 20km, but what they would do is spend a week before the mission driving out in a direction, dropping caches (and/or other survival gear) every 15km, and then driving back to base to get the equipment they need. Then after the mission they spend another week driving out and picking up the caches again so they can put them elsewhere. Also, I think they always go in pairs, so there's 2 in each pressurized rover, two rovers, and then two back at base coordinating and doing other stuff. Maybe they're driving robotic rover missions or something? I thought the timing aspect was interesting about laying caches though. Maybe in addition to area we could have something about how many biomes can be touched and how long it takes to get there? Or is this aspect not interesting? Could we just say that the range of pressurized rovers is like 10 missions at 100km, or 100 missions at 10km? I also don't know if biomes are interesting enough or if we should count in other monuments like named craters, landing sites of other real rovers, in stock we could use anomalies in addition to biomes or something like that. "[*]maybe less susceptible to freaky min max strategies - but if it is susceptible then it's a consequence of 'reality'" Mission freaking accomplished. You've min/maxed by min/maxing your access to awesome science. But yes, I agree completely! I love how natural it is. In the DRA5 they talk about launching 110t every 30 days, could we use this as an arbitrary limit? I didn't get far into KCT, but I think we could probably build a config around it and magico was nice enough to offer their services in configuring. What do you think? - - - Updated - - - Oh, good question. I'll have to investigate; I would hope that it would be fairly realistic, I assumed NASA has good altimetry maps but I really have no idea. I'll definitely hyperedit and investigate as soon as I can find some computer time. Duna is probably a little easier because we know that it has anomalies, but I don't know how the biomes look or what features are available. Are there scarps or canyons? I don't really know. This is probably my weakest point in the game, I never actually explore the planets, just a flag and go; something I can surely improve on. RT isn't really bad; it's mostly just one more thing you can forget to activate when you're getting to orbit. There's a couple mods that greatly help in landing. Arming parachutes and setting their altitude is pretty critical, but there's a couple separatron-like engines that activate at the last second to help landing that RT recommends. On the other hand, when you have kerbals on-board it doesn't matter. I would be okay if people didn't want to do RT, but I think it adds a really interesting dynamic for me. I also know that setting up all those geosats is a pain in the ass and is most likely the thing that prevents people from using it; having that pre-setup would be a huge help. My experience of savegames is that they pretty much just work as long as you have the mods that were used to create it. I transfer my saves between computers all the time with no problems. That is beautiful. I hadn't thought about making replicas an achievement in addition to just a general lifter but I really like the immersion of it. "Reality immersion" seems to be one of the guiding values for both of us (even if we don't always choose it) so I like the idea of having either situation and rewarding people who put extra work into making it more immersive. Oh! I really like that! I love the idea of getting to claim bars if someone used your solution, but also having an equally awesome looking thing for people who really do the soup to nuts thing. I have some graphic designer friends that I can talk to, but they're going to want some specifics before they start. Actually, one of them makes mission patches for our rocketry club so he'd be great; but I want to make sure that we have our ideas nailed down first. What elements do you think should be present in our patch? Red seems obvious, or something mars looking, but what other elements? Or is it a mission shield that adds components based on the mission parameters? Like maybe it's a red rock or a grey rock depending on whether you made it, with a satellite above, a lifter below, a robot rover, a kerbal'd rover, a lander, and a tent icon? And if you submitted a craft that someone said they used you get to use the gold version of those icons? It occurs to me that most of these are actually present in the J5JS flags pack and the icons below my signature, so I might be able to strap something together. Maybe I could even get the ribbon guy to create a little thing for us!

Agreed. Not insurmountable at all. I'll add these to the front-page. I wish I could just give you access to edit the front-post at your whim!

I'm on the bus so I can't respond in full, but I wanted to say that the mm work you're doing sounds awesome! I had done a little mm work on some of the ro stuff so it makes sense that we might provide this. I wonder if tweaking the tacls things might be easier though? I think they have a sabatier and some sort of water condenser. My big question is whether my proposed challenges seem at all interesting to you? My thought was to release a new challenge each week that was bite sized enough to get done, but also too hard to do right all by myself. Finding a compatible home for instance, that's a lot of work to find 3-5 possibilities. Let alone to do it in ro, stock, and stock hardmode. Same thing with the save file. My hope is that this will lead to the end goal of assembling the whole mission using your own, or someone else's craft files, and being able to do a simply overwhelming challenge. But I'll admit, there's no points so maybe that sucks? Also, no badge yet, so we need to find a graphic designer.

Challenge #1 - Find candidates for landing sites We need to find a home, but we also need to understand how much RO's version of Mars is like the real Mars. So we need to evaluate sites using things like ScanSat and compare them with important features on the real mars. Ideally, we'll be able to use these sites to go out and actually put flags down on Duna in the right places! Your solutions will be used by almost everyone who attempts this challenge! Solutions: Stock-hardmode xxx.xxN by xxx.xxW - username Realism Overhaul xxx.xxN by xxx.xxW - username Requirements: Broad flat area, 10-20km diameter Kerbal rover access to as many biomes and monuments as possible (within 100-200km) Robot access to areas of biological concern, recent craters, mid-latitude gullies, "pasted-on" terrain, thermal anomalies, very young volcanic rocks. Plentiful in-situ resources Challenge #2 - Build a savegame w/ existing assets in place One of the hardest parts of the real Mars missions is that signal delay is a real thing. NASA normally tells the astronauts exactly what to do, every minute of every day. But with a signal delay of 45m it becomes significantly harder to do that. Regardless, if we don't have the assets in place RemoteTech will be a very difficult mod to include, but it's such an important part of the mission that we should at least attempt. The goal of this is to create a savegame with the assets in place that will facilitate people to communicate with Mars using RemoteTech. Please try to keep to just the mods listed in the first post, but if it's critical please mention which mods you used people will know what to install. Like the first challenge, this is the bedrock of people's mission attempts; your work here will help people for months or maybe years. Solutions: Stock-hardmode link to post - username Realism Overhaul link to post - username Requirements: Link to your savegame file (github/gist?) List of extra mods needed Images of satellites and their orbits (imgur) Geostationary satellites in place at Earth Polar, heliosynchronous, or highly eccentric satellites if needed Replica mars assets in roughly correct orbit Mars Global Surveyor Mars Odyssey Mars Reconnaisance Orbiter (MRO) [*]Recommendations of addition assets to deliver to Mars (aerostationary or polar?) [*]Recommendations of on-ground communications devices for use on Mars [*]Recommendations of in-transit communications devices for use by MTV Challenge #3 - Create a capable model of the Ares V Heavy Lift Vehicle This is a relatively small challenge, but it's extremely important. We need you to make a lifter that looks and acts like the Ares V heavy lifter capable of lofting 110t or thereabouts to a nice, low eccentricity 407km orbit. Solutions: Stock-hardmode link to post - username Realism Overhaul link to post - username Requirements: Make the craft file available (github/gist?) Lots of pretty photos! List MechJeb ascent profile if possible Ensure there's enough communications for RT2 to use Autonomous ascent and/or rendezvous is acceptable and expected 2 reusable SRBs strapped on to the side (specs?) 5 RS-68B engines on base stage (specs?) 1 J2-X engine in upper stage (specs?) 3323t launch mass, 110.3m height 40t, 10mx30m fairing (supposed to be aerocapture capable, but maybe we need to skip this) Capable of launching to 407km circular orbit - - - Updated - - - This morning I sat down and thought through a lot of the challenge ideas and had some great breakthroughs from reading the DRA docs. As I read more each week I'll continue to update and post more challenges, but I think this is a great starting point. I would appreciate any feedback that you all have. Also, if these look okay, should I move this to a different thread or try to get the title of this thread changed? Thank you all for the continued encouragement!!

Tonight I've been looking into some achievements, and like many before me, I'm struggling to come up with a system that seems satisfying and coherent. I can come up with some categories and some medal names within those categories but it ends up feeling pretty flat. So I think that probably means that I'm starting too low level. We should try to flesh out what the guiding principles of the mission are going to be first. Then I think the categories are going to fall out of it. When I think about this challenge, I think the interesting thing for me is the learning objectives. Learn about and engage with the real Mars. Viscerally feel the excitement of being an astronaut. Educate and excite those around me about going to space. Some more specific sub-goals. Understand the communications needs between planetary travel Research the crew health concerns Discover more about real-life launchers and engines Learn about the challenges present in launching from an inclined launch site Finally understand what launch windows are Learn what it's like to try to pilot inside a rocket So, DBowman and others, what is it about this challenge that initially excited you? Are the goals above motivating to you? Do you have other specific sub-goals that are interesting to you?

I've been playing with Kerbal weather systems, KerbalMass, and keepfit over the last couple days and I think they're not quite ready for prime-time yet, though they are promising for sure. Rebuilding my apollo tonight to make sure that I can indeed lift 100t as a test. It's not going well so far

Welcome back Doc! You aren't alone in getting distracted; most of the people still posting here are in the same camp. Mild distraction reminder, 1.0 is coming out within the next couple weeks so it may be wise to backup your game folder lest it auto update, break all your mods, and delay you once again. happened to me with 0.90. Enjoy yourself, we look forward to seeing your innovations even if you never finish the whole thing.

I love this! How many categories should we try to have? I have like 6 listed, but I don't know how compelling they each are. I think it could also be cool to have a list of missions that have collected together the most gold medals or something. It's one thing to make an amazing lander, but if it's so heavy that you can't get it there... It also makes me think that the list of medals is going to be really, really long; but maybe that's fun! The rover alone is making me think that we need a medal for things like: Pressurized rover under x mass, pressurized rover seating x people, pressurized rover with x science experiments, etc. What do you think? How do we even represent that? I was thinking about making a giant graph but I don't know where to fit in the descriptions. Need mouseovers tooltips! Actually, maybe we do need a whole website... I think it makes sense to have ISRU and non-ISRU sub-category for RO vs Stock. I don't know what the chemistry is, but I think it's not that outlandish to make the a hydrazine-like fuel out of what's available on Mars in the soil or atmosphere. The challenge I think is getting the oxygen half of the equation, but maybe that's possible too if there really is water moisture in the top 5 inches of soil. At the very least, that means you only have to pack in an oxidizer. It would be interesting to find out what the Regolith/Karbonite mods look like in RO. Would you be willing to look into that? So, side-note, I'm wondering about the permanent aspect of this mission. It's possible that it's big enough that it's not possible to do three of them. That would be something like 36, very risky 100t launches with 36 rendezvous (at least). Thoughts?

Wow, I had no idea what we were getting into! I made a replica apollo mission today; really the first time I've tried to do something this ambitious in RP-0. It's intense, but the satisfaction is so incredibly immense! Almost as immense as the craft itself. I'm slightly horrified to think that I'm going to essentially have to lift 12 of these beasts in order to make a single trip to Mars. At least, that's according to the DRA5. It's seriously mind-numbing...

Thank you so much NathanKell! I've downloaded the new version of Ven's but alas, no dice. I also killed my MM cache and tried other versions of MM. But it's okay, I miss the J2 but there are other options.

Thanks, maybe there's a new incompatibility. Since I just installed everything today I'll look at older versions of the two to see if something funny changed in recent MM or something.

I just re-installed KSP because I wanted to try RP-0 but I'm getting a ModuleManager failure that's preventing me from starting up the game. Help would be much appreciated! Mods installed via ckan, updated and refreshed seconds ago. Only mod installed was Realistic Progression Zero v0.30. All recommended mods were installed, no suggested mods were installed. Error from KSP_Data/output_log.txt: PartLoader: Compiling Part 'Squad/Parts/Engine/solidBoosterBACC/solidBoosterBACC/RO-X-248' (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49) PartLoader Warning: Variable RP0conf not found in Part (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49) TestFlightInterface: Could not find TestFlightInterop module (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49) Cannot find a PartModule of typename 'ModuleEngineIgnitor' (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49) NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object at RealFuels.ModuleEngineConfigs.TLTInfo () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at RealFuels.ModuleEngineConfigs.GetInfo () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at PartLoader.ParsePart (.UrlConfig urlConfig, .ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at PartLoader+.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 (Filename: Line: -1) When I look in the ModuleManager.cache file I'm seeing this, but I can confirm that this model does not exist: UrlConfig { name = RO-X-248 type = PART parentUrl = Squad/Parts/Engine/solidBoosterBACC/solidBoosterBACC url = Squad/Parts/Engine/solidBoosterBACC/solidBoosterBACC/RO-X-248 PART { name = RO-X-248 module = Part author = NovaSilisko rescaleFactor = 1 node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -1.002142, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0 node_stack_top = 0.0, 1.00352, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0 node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, -0.2193544, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0 sound_rocket_hard = running category = Engine subcategory = 0 title = non RO (RP-0 yes) - Altair (X-248) Solid Kick Motor ... snip I tried just removing that engine from the RO_Squad_Engines.cfg but it failed later on with some other engine. I'll try to get that one and figure out what happened there but it takes me a while to hunt these down (total newb to MM) Thank you so much for the help and for making this amazing modpack!! - - - Updated - - - Next failure is SXTLT80, similar error but slightly different. PartLoader: Compiling Part 'SXT/Parts/Engine/J2Engine/part/SXTLT80' (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49) PartLoader Warning: Variable RSSROConfig not found in Part (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49) PartLoader Warning: Variable RP0conf not found in Part (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49) TestFlightInterface: Could not find TestFlightInterop module (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49) Cannot find a PartModule of typename 'ModuleEngineIgnitor' (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49) TestFlightInterface: Could not find TestFlightInterop module (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49) Cannot find a PartModule of typename 'ModuleEngineIgnitor' (Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49) NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object at RealFuels.ModuleEngineConfigs.TLTInfo () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at RealFuels.ModuleEngineConfigs.GetInfo () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at PartLoader.ParsePart (.UrlConfig urlConfig, .ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at PartLoader+.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 (Filename: Line: -1) NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object at ModuleJettison.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 at Part+.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 (Filename: Line: -1) - - - Updated - - - So, it looks like if I disable those two engines I can boot up just fine, so hopefully that means it's not widespread problems! If this needs to be in the SXT threads please let me know. I'm not sure exactly how to read MM stuff so I wasn't sure where to start.

Awesome! Thank you monstah. I'm trying to fiddle as well but I'm having trouble getting RP-0 installed right now. Something funny with MM that I'm working through.

I can't think of a good way to score the achievements section. I want it to feel like a group effort, but I also want to put a number on it. What do you all think? I've updated the description at top to include the mod recommendations from this thread. Seems like it should be pretty minimal which is awesome! I'm going to check out KCT, keepfit, weather, and kerbalmass today. - - - Updated - - - That's amazing, let me play with KCT from RP0 and see if it looks like it would do what we need just by default. I was thinking sandbox, despite using RP-0. I like RP-0 because there's a bunch of work on cost balancing and also some configs for things like KCT.

I think I asked the question wrong. What I'm trying to figure out is how to replicate the building mechanic from the original thread. Something like, it takes 2x days to build a lifter (plus payload), where x is the max payload mass (this was called NIMLKO in the original thread, or IMLEO in NASA speak). I'm envisioning something where I can have 13 of the same lander just sitting in my inventory, while my payloads are being built in a separate line. Or maybe payloads are free or something. Or maybe this is all part of the challenge, I'm not sure! On an unrelated note, my install got borked so I just did a reinstall of ckan and my mods. Here's what I had to do so far: Things I selected in ckan: Mandatory mods Ambient Light Adjustment [i'm so tired of black screenshots!] EngineIgniter (repack) Realistic Progression Zero (uncheck in install screen) RemoteTech (uncheck in install screen) RemoteTech RSS Configuration Surprisingly small actually! So my question is whether this is a sufficiently small install, or should I put together a meta-pack and ship it to netkan? If we go the netkan route we can inform ckan that the "Highly recommended" and the "Optional" mods are dependencies (or maybe not dependencies, but suggestions). It's also making me wonder why EngineIgnitor is not included in RP-0; is it just on the wrong side of the fun/challenging graph? I also think it might be acceptable to just add in a note that RT2 isn't required, but that people are welcome to use it. I already have a big comms network setup, so it doesn't matter to me, but I know others don't have this set up and that's okay. Highly recommended Enhanced NavBall FASA Launch Clamps and Towers [Almost mandatory for Hydrolox engines] Mechjeb and Engineer for all! TweakableEverything RCS Build Aid Things I'm testing out keepfit [For testing purposes, not sure if it'll make the cut] Kerbal Weather Systems! [For testing purposes, not sure if it'll make the cut] KerbalMass [For testing purposes, not sure if it'll make the cut] Optional Karbonite Kerbal Inventory System Regolith ActiveTextureManagement - X86 - Basic Real Solar System Textures DDS - 4096 x 2048

I think this is a great idea. Perfect. And I'm going to look at what RP0 offers out of the box just to see. It looks like doing a basic RP0 install, but then using sandbox mode, would get all the mods installed in one fell swoop as well as doing a bunch of costing work. This would allow the funds based primary score as well. Absolutely, I always forget about Regolith but that's what I intended all along. Great to know that it's deadly enough. Thank you for confirming that! That's what I was thinking. I personally don't like leaderboards, but I also know that some people are really, really motivated by it. It's also possible that we could assign a group score, thanks to these people we've managed to reduce the cost per kerbal to X which I think gets all the parties excited? What do you think? Super good point. This sticks to the original aim of letting mods punish you instead of rules so I think it's a great idea. Maybe we have RP0 edition with one group score, and a Stock-hardmode with one score? Do we need a straight up stock mode edition? I know some people really like that, but it's in conflict with the "mod enforced, not rule enforced" value of this challenge. It's an interesting point. In the DRA5 they talk about how some science things can be done with rovers, but they're worried that the bacterial colonies that live on humans would introduce life onto mars and possibly kill off any martian life they find (see: colonists bringing smallpox to the americas). So there's some sections that have to be done with an unmanned rover, and some that can be done with a pressurized, manned rover. In order to accommodate that in RT, we would have to have 6 crew and one of the big command modules. But if we strip the RT2 requirement then maybe that makes that issue go away. I'm convinced. Since it's kerballed anyways lets skip RT. Will reply in a moment, just about to go to a meeting.

I'm realizing that in a perfect world, I think the rules would be something like "Get 6 kerbals to Mars. These mods will punish you if you do it wrong." So at that point it just comes down to making sure people use the same settings for mods and we're golden. Some mods I'm looking into: Fitness / health Multi-location payload building Survivability / escape Stage recovery / refitting for KCT Food growing? - - - Updated - - - Outstanding! Thank you, I'll certainly ask you about KCT. I'll admit that I've not used it up until now, but I definitely see the value and would really appreciate not having to write rules and instead letting the mods inform people. I'll also look at the RP0 config for KCT. That brings up an interesting point of those mods that aren't costed. I don't know if that's a general RO thing or an RP0 thing. Should mods that don't have a cost be a concern? Should there even be a funds limit?

Introduction Welcome to the Mars Realism Working Group, we're glad you could join us today! In this thread we're compiling resources, building ships, and eventually all going to mars together using those same assets. It's a big job, so we're really happy to have you! Current scores and achievements Primary Scoring Base Rules Mods Resources Current scores (Back to top) No completed entries yet! You could be the first! [table=align: left] [tr] [td]Realism Overhaul: N/A[/td] [td]Stock Hardmode: N/A[/td] [td]Stock Pure: N/A[/td] [/tr] [/table] Achievements [table=align: left] [tr] [td]Challenge[/td] [td]Realism Overhaul[/td] [td]Stock Hardmode[/td] [td]Stock Pure[/td] [td]Links[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] We need to find a home, but we also need to understand how much RO's version of Mars is like the real Mars. So we need to evaluate sites using things like ScanSat and compare them with important features on the real mars. Ideally, we'll be able to use these sites to go out and actually put flags down on Duna in the right places! Your solutions will be used by almost everyone who attempts this challenge! Requirements: Broad flat area, 10-20km diameter. Kerbal rover access to as many biomes and monuments as possible (within 100-200km). Robot access to areas of biological concern, recent craters, mid-latitude gullies, "pasted-on" terrain, thermal anomalies, very young volcanic rocks. Plentiful in-situ resources. Standards: Bronze: 1-2 lat/lng locations with some interesting features. Silver: 3-4 possible locations with close proximity to anomalies, features, and biomes. Gold: Something extra special; perhaps 4 locations with thought into possible missions and excursions from that location. [/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] One of the hardest parts of the real Mars missions is that signal delay is a real thing. NASA normally tells the astronauts exactly what to do, every minute of every day. But with a signal delay of 45m it becomes significantly harder to do that. Regardless, if we don't have the assets in place RemoteTech will be a very difficult mod to include, but it's such an important part of the mission that we should at least attempt. The goal of this is to create a savegame with the assets in place that will facilitate people to communicate with Mars using RemoteTech. Please try to keep to just the mods listed in the first post, but if it's critical please mention which mods you used people will know what to install. Like the first challenge, this is the bedrock of people's mission attempts; your work here will help people for months or maybe years. Link to your savegame file (github/gist?) List of extra mods needed Images of satellites and their orbits (imgur) Geostationary satellites in place at Earth Polar, heliosynchronous, or highly eccentric satellites if needed Replica mars assets in roughly correct orbit Mars Global Surveyor Mars Odyssey Mars Reconnaisance Orbiter (MRO) [*]Recommendations of addition assets to deliver to Mars (aerostationary or polar?) [*]Recommendations of on-ground communications devices for use on Mars [*]Recommendations of in-transit communications devices for use by MTV Standards: Bronze: A communications network around Kerbin capable of maintaining contact with a point on the duna surface 40% of the Duna day. Silver: In addition, a small communications network around Duna/Mars capable of maintaining contact with a point on the duna surface 90% of the Duna day. Gold: Something extra special; perhaps a replica communications network representing the actual satellites around earth and mars that would be used for a real Mars mission. [/td] [td]Bronze[/td] [td]Dirty Bronze[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] Solutions: Realism Overhaul vosechu's savegame download Stock-hardmode vosechu's savegame download Stock link to post - username [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] This is a relatively small challenge, but it's extremely important. We need you to make a lifter that is capable of lofting 110t or thereabouts to a nice, low eccentricity 407km orbit. https://www.evernote.com/shard/s49/sh/5a60a807-c783-44f5-9596-1872e4293883/8ddabea1646bb915e554e128dfa9a70c Requirements: Make the craft file available (github/gist?) Lots of pretty photos! List MechJeb ascent profile if possible Ensure there's enough communications for RT2 to use Autonomous ascent and/or rendezvous is acceptable and expected 40t, 10mx30m fairing (supposed to be aerocapture capable, but maybe we need to skip this) Capable of launching to 407km circular orbit Standards: Bronze: A craft capable of launching the payload with some rendezvous and deorbit capability. Silver: A gorgeous craft that replicates the real Ares V as closely as possible. Gold: Something extra special. [/td] [td]Silver[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Bronze[/td] [td] Solutions: Realism Overhaul immelman's Saturn C8 download Stock-hardmode link to post - username Stock vosechu's Mars HHLV download [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] Blown up diagram of the cargo MTV: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s49/sh/bcc21fa1-b081-41b7-8413-8ee24ff27eb1/c8e614c35c5fee361dbc6f23d791adc3 The cargo MTV is a pre-flight transfer vehicle that ferries all the payloads that need to be on Mars and operational before we bother sending out humans or kerbals. Unlike the crewed MTV, we don't need to worry about radiation from the engines, nor do we need to worry about taking longer to get to Mars (a low energy transfer). What we are able to do is take advantage of the lower risk nature of our goods and do some aerobraking around mars. This MTV also will not be coming back to earth, so feel free to burn it up when you're done with it. You don't need to build the things that go inside the aeroshell for this challenge, just make a subassemblies that other people can use. Requirements: Make the craft files available (github/gist?) Pretty pictures of the vehicle all together and in three parts Put the attachment node on the bottom of the subassembly (the engine, the bottom of the inline fuel tank, and the aeroshell) 3x 111.2kN nuclear engines (700-900isp) First tank - 9m wide, 59.4t of LH2, 3.6t of RCS (~96.6t total mass, 33.7t dry mass) In-line tank - 9m wide, 34.1t of LH2, 1.7t of RCS, attaches to front of other tank (~46.6t total mass, 10.8t dry mass) 2x circular orion style solar panels ~143.2 total mass Standards: Bronze: The three craft files (or one linked craft file) covering the components Silver: Craft files that closely resemble the actual craft Gold: Something extra special [/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] Large diagram of the crewed CTV concept - https://www.evernote.com/shard/s49/sh/bcc21fa1-b081-41b7-8413-8ee24ff27eb1/c8e614c35c5fee361dbc6f23d791adc3 Overall mission plan showing the drop of the trussed tank - https://www.evernote.com/shard/s49/sh/9ce7559b-4f68-4d9e-bee0-4edfa18f936e/39159c623665e0ce6b1b51ece9c7d27e The crewed MTV is responsible for ferrying the 6 astronauts to Mars as quickly as possible with the minimum of radiation. Like the cargo MTV, the propulsion module comes in multiple parts (one extra one this time) with living quarters on the very front. Because of the extra radiation shielding, the first section of the propulsion has significantly more weight. Also, this MTV has to come home after the trip to mars, detach its CEV, and deorbit the Orion module safely. It's a lot for one ship! Requirements: Make the craft files available (github/gist?) Pretty pictures of the vehicle all together and in four parts Put the attachment node on the bottom of the subassembly (the engine, the bottom of the inline fuel tank, the bottom of the two trusses, and the CEV module) 3x 111.2kN nuclear engines (700-900isp) First tank w/ radiation shield - 9m wide, 59.7t of LH2, 4.9t of RCS (~106.2t total mass, 41.7t dry mass) In-line tank - 9m wide, 69.9t of LH2, 0t of RCS, attaches to front of other tank (~91.4t total mass, 21.5t dry mass) Long saddle truss - 9m wide, 73.1t of LH2, 0t of RCS, attaches to front of in-line tank, LH2 can be dropped after TMI burn (~96t total mass, 8.9t saddle truss, 14t dry tank mass) Short saddle truss - 9m wide, 0t of LH2, 3.2t of RCS, attaches to front of long saddle truss (~62.8t total mass, 4.7t short truss, 9.8t contingency food, 1.8t docking truss, 32.8t habitat, 10.6 CEV/SM + Crew) 2x circular orion style solar panels 4x long solar panels (50kWe total, 12.5kWe each, 125m^2 each) Standards: Bronze: The four craft files (or one linked craft file) covering the components Silver: Craft files that closely resemble the actual craft Gold: Something extra special [/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] This mission description is not yet finished. Put a description in the thread and I'll put it in here so you can get credit! Requirements: Standards: Bronze: Silver: Gold: Something extra special [/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] This mission description is not yet finished. Put a description in the thread and I'll put it in here so you can get credit! Requirements: Standards: Bronze: Silver: Gold: Something extra special [/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] This mission description is not yet finished. Put a description in the thread and I'll put it in here so you can get credit! Requirements: Standards: Bronze: Silver: Gold: Something extra special [/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] This mission description is not yet finished. Put a description in the thread and I'll put it in here so you can get credit! Requirements: Standards: Bronze: Silver: Gold: Something extra special [/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] This mission description is not yet finished. Put a description in the thread and I'll put it in here so you can get credit! Requirements: Standards: Bronze: Silver: Gold: Something extra special [/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] This mission description is not yet finished. Put a description in the thread and I'll put it in here so you can get credit! Requirements: Standards: Bronze: Silver: Gold: Something extra special [/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] This mission description is not yet finished. Put a description in the thread and I'll put it in here so you can get credit! Requirements: Standards: Bronze: Silver: Gold: Something extra special [/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] This mission description is not yet finished. Put a description in the thread and I'll put it in here so you can get credit! Requirements: Standards: Bronze: Silver: Gold: Something extra special [/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr] [tr] [td] (wow, this is like 16 other challenges or possibilities...) This mission description is not yet finished. Put a description in the thread and I'll put it in here so you can get credit! Requirements: Standards: Bronze: Silver: Gold: Something extra special [/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td]Unfinished[/td] [td] [/td] [/tr] [/table] Primary Score (Back to top) Why do we choose to do this Mars thing? For Science! Boots on the ground over time - poking around. Even better wheels on the ground! The scoring system reflects this goal, while leaving out all the fiddly details: Just how fast, reliable, & ATV is your rover? hard to measure - we just used NASA lunar and planed rovers as a guide. If I land at 02:00 hr do I count that as a day? don't count days, orbital mechanics means there are only 2 basic choices - short stay and long stay. Which of all the different science we could do... We will just gloss over that ... So what is left in? Long Term Habitation is more than 15 days and requires double the 'rated' crew capacity. Short Stay or Long Stay - nominally 30 days or 500 days. Bases - pressure living and life support. Fixed Mobile - can bring fresh terrain into range. [*]Kerbals doing Suit EVA. [*]Rovers are multipliers of Kerbal's science gathering speed: Open rover with no life support. Pressure rover with 15 day life support on board. [*]Layers of the planet independently make science available. Surface accessible by just walking / roving around. Sub-surface more information is available if you can drill in. For this you need equipment - just mock something, using KAS if you'd like to get fancy. Requires a rover ( mass 1 ton ) and 2 Kerbals ( oops my bit is stuck ). [*]Robo / Telepresence You will need one of the large Remote Probe cores to serve as a control hub. Each robotic unit will score as 0.5 * a Kerbal, but can gather data up to the maximum. [*]Sample Return Cherry picking samples and returning the to Kerbin for in depth study doubles the score of units that have access to a Science Lab and the capacity to return 500 kg of samples. To score your entry: You will score the Surface and Sub-surface layer independently and then sum the scores. Kerbals associated with a Drill score on both the surface layer and the sub-surface layer. Pick the Short or Long stay section. Score each Kerbal / Rover from the appropriate row; Suit EVA, Open Rover, Pressure Rover and apply any modifiers: divide by 2 for robotic units (oops dust obscured my camera) [*]Then starting at Suit EVA limit your score for that row score to the maximum available for the kind of Base the Kerbal has. [*]Continue down the table adding in the next score to the running total and limiting to the maximum available in that row. [*]Apply any Base Multipliers: multiply by 2 for having a Science Lab (mass?) and the ability to sample return 0.5 ton of samples. [*]Sum the score for all your base. [*]Sum the surface and sub-surface scores. [*]Profit! As we get entries that are 'incompatible' we will create separate 'divisions'. If anyone manages a 'Really Long Stay' we will extend the scoring system. Scoring Table Short Stay [table=align: left] [tr] [td]Kerbal Kind[/td] [td]Score[/td] [td]Fixed Base Max[/td] [td]Mobile Base Max[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Suit EVA[/td] [td]1[/td] [td]20[/td] [td]80[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Open Rover[/td] [td]2[/td] [td]40[/td] [td]160[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Pressure Rover[/td] [td]4[/td] [td]500[/td] [td]2000[/td] [/tr] [/table] Long Stay [table=align: left] [tr] [td]Kerbal Kind[/td] [td]Score[/td] [td]Fixed Base Max[/td] [td]Mobile Base Max[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Suit EVA[/td] [td]15[/td] [td]20[/td] [td]600[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Open Rover[/td] [td]30[/td] [td]40[/td] [td]1200[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Pressure Rover[/td] [td]60[/td] [td]500[/td] [td]15000[/td] [/tr] [/table] Min/maxing If you think you see a hole in the scoring system, let us know. Scoring Examples Example 1: A Fixed Base with 6 crew for a Short Stay with 2 open rovers, each with 2 seats, one with 1 drill. Surface: = 2 * 1 max 20 & 4 * 2 max 40 = 2 max 20 & 8 max 40 = 2 + 8 max 40 = 10 Sub-surface: = 4 * 2 max 40 = 8 max 40 = 8 Total Score: 18 Example 2: Same as Example 1 but Long Stay. Surface: = 2 * 15 max 20 & 4 * 30 max 40 = 30 max 20 & 120 max 40 = 20 + 120 max 40 = 40 Sub-surface: = 4 * 30 max 40 = 120 max 40 = 40 Total Score: 80 Example 3: Fixed Base Long Stay, 2 Open Rover seats with a Drill, 4 Pressure Rover seats ( 2 rovers) with 2 Drills. Surface: = 2 * 30 max 40 & 4 * 60 max 500 = 60 max 40 &240 max 500 = 40 + 240 max 500 = 280 Sub-surface: = 2 * 30 max 40 & 4 * 60 max 500 = 60 max 40 & 240 max 500 = 40 + 240 max 500 = 280 Total Score: 560 Rules (Back to top) There are no rules about which engines or fuels you may use, RealFuel and EngineIgniter will tactfully inform you when your cryogenic fuels have evaporated. There are no rules about how many types of ships you build, but due to the immense amount of testing and design needed to make lifters, you may wish to make only one type of lifter that can be used to lift all of your payloads to LEO (160-2000km). There are no rules about how much fuel you have left when you get to LEO, or even where you orbit. Having left-over fuel may be worth the extra cost... then again, it may not be. There are no rules about aerodynamic shells or heat shields, DRE and FAR will punish you for your transgressions. There are no rules about life support, TACLS will inform you when your crews have expired. Mods (Back to top) Required mods Install CKAN and grab these things. Accept all the recommended mods and accept any suggested mods that you desire (None are required). Option 1: Realism Overhaul version Ambient Light Adjustment EngineIgniter (repack) (Currently broken in 1.0) Realism Overhaul (Currently broken in 1.0) SCANSat Option 2: Stock-hardmode Ambient Light Adjustment Deadly Reentry (Currently broken in 1.0) EngineIgniter (repack) (Currently broken in 1.0) TAC Life Support (TACLS) Remote Tech (RT2) Ferram Aerospace Research (FAR) (Currently broken in 1.0) Better Bouyancy (Currently broken in 1.0) RealFuels (Currently broken in 1.0) RealChutes Procedural Parts TweakScale FASA Bobcat's Soviet Engine Pack SCANSat Kerbal Joint Reinforcement Option 3: Stock Ambient Light Adjustment Recommended mods Waypoint Manager RCS Build Aid (Currently broken in 1.0) Enhanced NavBall Mechjeb Kerbal Engineer Mechjeb and Engineer for all! TweakableEverything Kerbal Inventory System (KIS) Procedural Fairings Editor Extensions KSP-AVC Kerbal Alarm Clock NavHud Fusebox Banned mods NearFuture* Karbonite+ Extraplanetary Launchpads Useful resources (Back to top) Design document by NASA - http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/373665main_NASA-SP-2009-566.pdf Constellation challenge (lifter examples) - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/51965-Constellation-Space-Program-Three-Part-Challenge Real life in-situ reactions - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/68797-In-Situ-Resource-Utilization-Useful-Reactions Original thread had lots of stock info - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/31510-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge Map of the real solar system - http://i.imgur.com/AAGJvD1.png Similar challenge on Reddit - http://www.reddit.com/r/ksptomars Challenges of aerocapture - http://www.4frontierscorp.com/dev/assets/Braun_Paper_on_Mars_EDL.pdf Special Thanks DBowman - for encouraging me to start this thread and his numerous encouraging collaborative posts Sturmstiger - for the original inspiration and the challenge that kept giving NathanKell, magico13, Norcalplanner, DuoDex - for helping out in the early days of this challenge Problems: KSP units for things: it's all a bit mysterious. 1 unit of oxidizer looks like it weighs 4 liters of LOX. There are arguments over what liquid fuel is. Figuring out reaction rates and energy required: I just plugged in very high numbers to make it easy to see it working, but I haven't figured out any real numbers for input/output. DRA5 says 300 days @ 23 kW, I didn't see a number for how much Oxidizer they thought to produce. Power: if the US guys are right and 1 EC = 33 watts then running CO2 Decomp required about 700 EC 956 RTGs - 76 tons. Oh I see RO has 1 EC = 1kW, I've not seen what RTGs make in RO though. Energy: I'm no chemist so I've no idea how much energy in and out the various reactions take - so we'd have to source info from somewhere. Seems like lots of mods make Sabatier require input energy (for 'game balance'?) when it's exothermic and generates heat. We need to get a signature badge or patch for this work. Where do we find a graphic designer?