Brainlord Mesomorph

Is it the root part? or the CoM? I thought the navball gave you a straight line from the CoM through the docking port. Either way off-center ports are a problem. ignore the navball. Protip: when docking, rotate your view and/or ship around so that horizon on the navball and the planet are the same. Then up/down and left/right are consistent on the navball, the screen and the keyboard. Docking is much more intuitive.

I do. My TWRs are usually around 0.2. Its very useful, and explained thoroughly in the tutorial in my sig.

Wow. I don't plan that far ahead. I tried when I first started, it never worked. These days, I make sure my ships are capable of a "variety of missions" and I empower my commanders to make decisions once they get there.(LOL) Not like NASA. (every last detail pre-decided) more like Sir Francis Drake. I send out ships and they explore. Where do we land? The most interesting place under whatever orbit we managed to grab. Where do we go next? Whatever is orbiting into a convenient position. - - - Updated - - - AH but you forget that I know how to place my PE exactly at my ejection angle because I line it up with the Sun!

Don't I get the most Oberth benifit from coming down from a high AP to a low PE?

Hmm. maybe I'm just used to them. - - - Updated - - - THAT.

I always assumed torpor. And those backpacks have some kind of infinite re-breather technology. But if the boys (and girls?) at Squad want this to be a polished finished game, there should some kind of official canon about the Kerbals, how they live etc. I'm more concerned about the totally invisible Navy and/or Marine force that recovers space ships from all over the world and the totally invisible industrial infrastructure and educational system that provides spaceship parts and trained astronauts.

I'm really not talking about Kerbin. Launching from the ground, circular is pretty much a default. I'm talking about capture around a distant planet. Once I have any safe orbit. I stop burning fuel. Until I make other much more precise plans. Maybe I need to circularize, or move the PE, maybe I don't. I was wondering if there any reason other than "It might be convenient later" because (just as likely) it might not.

Do most of you guys circularize your orbits as a matter of standard procedure? I don’t. I mean I can see why you would do that for certain purposes. Putting a satellite or a space station in a particular orbit. But as far as a tug and lander are concerned, or just trying to get two ships to rendezvous, elliptical orbits seem to provide a lot more opportunities. If two orbits have a common perigee, and vastly different apogees, you’ll get rendezvous quicker. (Two ships in matching circular orbits will chase each other around forever.) Elliptical orbits have high-speed perigees, and a low speed apogees, which provide other opportunities for maneuvering. In short, I see lots of reasons for elliptical orbits, but not very many reasons for circular orbits. Which is why I think I’m I missing something. Is there some tactical advantage to circular orbits I don’t understand?

Using 100% recoverable SSTO rockets, I can loft any Payload up to 400 tons for $600/ton.

Your right, some overly-round math led us to some incorrect conclusions. The most fuel-efficient thing is to go to the edge of SOI. but that will also take the most time. That highest orbit could take days or weeks. If life support or any other consumables were at issue, you wouldn't want that. But this is KSP, we have time. - - - Updated - - - A Kerbal YEAR later?! Some people take fuel efficiency too far.

Wait, we forgot something: the retrograde part. Leaving the SOI about 90 degrees to prograde, you can almost match the planets orbit, and orbit parallel to it. Leaving SOI retrograde though, you will be way slower than the planet. and you would have to burn fuel to catch up to it. RIGHT?? EDIT: or am i confusing retrograde relative to the planet and retrograde relative to the sun. I could be orbiting the planet backwards, but still fling the ship ahead of the planet of in solar orbit, just on the sun-side -

KerikBalm said so. I didn't check his math

You're Right! using KerikBalm's Kerbin/Minmus analogy, it would cost 930 m/s to reach Minmus orbit, and 400 m/s to reverse direction. Leaving SOI costs 950 m/s with almost zero to reverse, SAVING 360 m/s! THAT'S METHOD FOUR! That's funny. The best way to reverse orbital direction is to leave orbit!

Method two is it. Thanks to all. (and a minor pat on my own back for having thought of it, even if i didn't know it was better.)

For the longest time I thought it was spelled Laythee (thus pronouced Lay-Thee) But now That I've gotten there, I see that it only has the one E. so is it: Lay-Thee (hard E) Lay-theh (schwa E) LayTH (silent e with a hard TH, like the rotating grinding tool) Layth (silent e with a light TH, like someone with a lisp trying to say "Lays") (should this be a poll)

After some sloppy interplanetary piloting I have arrived at my target planet, but I’m in retrograde orbit instead of prograde orbit. Now I may, or may not actually, try to fix that. But it has me wondering: What would be the best way to reverse orbital direction? It would be great if we could just do a U-turn, like they do in Star Trek. (LOL) But obviously that won’t work. For the purposes of this discussion let’s assume the following nice round number: you are in low orbit of a body, at 1000 m/s. Method 1: A simple 2000 m/s retrograde burn. Problem, unless you have a ridiculous amount of thrust, you’re probably going to deorbit and crash before you finish the burn. Method 2: A series of perigee kicks to raise the apogee into an elliptical orbit (so the vehicle will be much slower at apogee) theoretically we could reduce speed at apogee to 500 m/s. Then it would only take a 1000 m/s to reverse direction, and you are much higher so you have much more time. But something tells me it’s going to cost about 500 m/s to raise the apogee , and another 500 m/s to get back down, and we’re still at a total of 2000 m/s. (I’m not a physicist but that just sounds right to me). And I right about that? Method 3: A series of plane-change burns? Change to a 45 degree retrograde orbit, then a polar orbit, and 45° to prograde, and finally prograde. At least then we are not falling out of orbit. Let me guess, that’ll be a 2000 m/s total, right? Or more? Method 4: The one I haven’t thought of. That you are about to tell me. But my guess is that if you’re going to 1000 m/s in the wrong direction no matter what we do its going to cost 2000 m/s to turn around. Right? Opinions? Physics? Please discuss.

Stuck in 0.25 until i finish my Joolian Exploratory Fleet mission. Can't wait to re-learn this game with better physics, new parts, etc.

X1 /extra chars added to placate the bot

I thought they spouted overnight like mushrooms.

**** NOTE: Godaddy is moving my website... so all my pics are down **** They will be back soon click to embiggen The Joolian Exploratory Fleet an Epic Adventure in Beta 0.25 12 Interplanetary Ships Launched in 24 hours! 35 Landing Vehicles! Including: 6 Rovers, 9 Spaceplanes and 4 Boats! (that are also Spaceplanes) 10 Interrelated Missions! 37 Kerbals (Every Single One with a Job) 3 Permanent Space Stations! 1 Permanent Colony! An 8 Station Communications Satellite Network! 100 Days of Operations Planned! Over 500 Tons of Additional Fuel Carried! (Two 250 ton MegaTankers) Over 1,000 Tons Total Payload (not counting ships and fuel)! Over 2,500 Tons Total Leaving LKO! A Budget of Over 6,000,000 Funds! Over 8 months of Gameplay (so far)! [TABLE=class: grid, width: 900, align: center] [TR] [TD]Current Mission Status: Kerbin Departure Orbit[/TD] [TD]Next Event: Departure[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Mission Elapsed Time: D minus 2.7 days[/TD] [TD]Science Total: 0 Science Transmitted: 0 Science Returned: 0[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Casualties: 0[/TD] [TD]Contract Funds: 0[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] The section above will be updated as the mission continues. Ah, who remembers KSP in beta?! Prototype aerodynamics (what we called “the soup-o-sphereâ€Â.) Back then nose cones were optional, reentry was just a visual effect and nuclear thrusters consumed oxidizer (?!). And that’s when I began my massive Joolian Exploratory Fleet. It took waaay longer than expected; my ship designs were not upgradeable. So now as you guys are enjoying version 1.02 (or 3 or 4), I’m still exploring Jool 0.25. (Here is my mission report. (It’s a huge mission, so it’s a huge mission report.) The Setup: I never got a guy as far as Jool before. (Actually, I crash-landed a crew in the ocean there at the end of my first sandbox game). Wanting to wrap up my first career game, I figure “I’m going to spend every last penny in my space budget and send everything I can to Jool!†At the time I thought that meant five or six ships. (If only I’d known then what I was getting myself into!) The In-Game Setup: From Kosmic Tales Vol 3 Issue 130: When the first telemetry was transmitted from JoolBot Science Dog II as it parachuted to the surface of Laythee to the flight control operators at the KSC, they were very glad they had installed that floor drain under their desks. KASA Administrator Bernard Kerman frowned at the widening stains on the fronts of his coworker’s pants when they handed him the printout, but he understood their reaction as he read the results; oxygen, liquid water, potentially even resources. That changed everything. Up until then, the Kerbal Space Program had been just that, a space program. But now it had a new mission, explore and colonize the Jool system and Laythee. Nothing else mattered. The Orbital Infrastructure Program was canceled; Missions to Eloo and Dres were scrubbed. Jeb Kerman was reassigned from his post commanding the KSS, and was sent back planetside. New initiatives were started: The Spaceplane Project. The Rover Project. The Reusable Booster Project. The Gamma Multi-Purpose Lander project was started, and failed. The Delta Multi-Purpose Lander project was started. It resulted in the Delta Modular Multi-purpose Interplanetary Vehicle (the MMIpV) . Everything was moving very swiftly. It was around that time that Bernard Kerman first heard the words “New Kerbin…†The Missions of the Joolian Exploratory Fleet (JEF): Way back when, we didn’t have “contracts†to tell us what to do. We had to invent our own missions (and we liked it!) This is basically everything I could think of to do in a stock game that I could fit in the budget. 1. JOOL-5 Challenge (J5C) I actually decided to do the JEF before I knew the JOOL-5 Challenge was a thing. When I found out about it, I thought; with a minor rearrangement of payloads and schedules we can do that, too. (Needless to say on Jeb Level.) There is a departure window open five days after Arrival. My goal is that the Challenger will do all five landings and catch that window home. The JOOL-5 Challenger is comprised of the Hawk CM (Laythee Lander) TyLEM One (Tylo Lander) two Tri-Science Modules and two Delta multipurpose interplanetary tug/landers. They will perform the initial landings on all five moons without any contact with any other vehicles of The Fleet. According to the rules of the J5C I am allowed “one refueling ship.†So I have designated one of the two fuel tankers in the JEF as the J5C refueling ship. I don’t think I’ll need it, but if we do, MegaTanker One is officially part of the JOOL-5 Challenge. It’s worth noting that I personally, have not actually done a manned landing on any of the Joolian moons. I am expecting the first five landings in the Jooian system I ever do to be a successful JOOL-5 Challenge. Hubris, I admit, but all this gear is very well tested and I’ve had a lot of practice with it, and aside from being nervous about the Tylo landing, I feel pretty confident that the others will go off without a hitch. 2. Tylopia Station (TSS)* A permanent space station in high orbit of Tylo. Rotates for gravity. A hub-and spoke design, not a wheel. Kerbals can actually use the ladders to move from module to module. And doing that while the station rotates is waaay cool! 3. Joolian Research Station (JRS) A semi-permanent station proximate to Tylopia. The JRS is the hub of operations and will process all the science of the Outer Moon Survey. After studying several delta V charts, I determined that high Tylo orbit was a really good (if not the best) central location for exploring the Joolian moons. 4. Joolian Outer Moon Survey (JOMS) Multiple landings on every moon. Bop, Vall, and Pol each have been assigned a Delta Lander, a Rover, two Tri-Science Modules, an unmanned Payload Handler Module, and a Jumbo64 Fuel orbiter. The idea is that the Delta Lander takes a Tri-Science Module to the surface and runs tests, then returns to orbit and rendezvous with the Payload Handler Module which takes the used Tri-Science Module, and gives the Lander the fresh one. Then, as the Lander goes back to the surface, the Handler Module ferries the used Tri-Science Module to the JRS lab for processing. By the time the Lander is back in orbit, the Handler is back with the refreshed Tri-Science Module and they do it all again. In essence, this creates a “conveyor belt of science†between each moon and the JRS, and turns the entire Joolian system in a “science factory.†*! The goal is to hit every biome on each moon. * And just now as I read that, I realize that I failed to account for the processing of surface samples! D’oh! We can transmit surface reports, but using unmanned Payload Handler Modules, I can’t get surface samples back to the JRS at all. – and we’re already in route! -I’ve Kerbaled this! I’ll have to be adjusting this plan. I have no lack of equipment or fuel. We’ll figure it out. Stay tuned! a. RoverLab For biomes that are difficult to reach from space we have Roverlab. A self-contained Lander/Rover/Lab that can land, drive safely at 70m/s in a quarter G (that’s 156 mph!), conduct all science and process all of its own results, while on the move, refuel on the ground, and then return to orbit. (RoverLab II was canceled due to budget overruns.) b. Tylo Surface Expedition II (TSE2) A second landing on Tylo. TyLEM Two is a duplicate of TyLEM One (from the J5C Challenger) will repeat the landing, possibly in a polar biome. 5. Laythos Station (LSS) A permanent space station orbiting Laythee. Labs, observation and communications support for Laythee Surface Expeditions II and III. Has docking facilities for four Bi-Science Modules that are carried in the payload bays of the Hawk CM, and the Hermes SSTO UAVs. 6. Laythee Surface Expedition II (LSE2) Full scale exploration of Laythee by land, sea and air. Two ATFV Flying Rovers will explore the islands, from their AeroLab Research Bases. At the same time, two Pices SSTO Jetboats will be exploring the oceans and returning science to their SeaLab ocean surface bases. While Hermes SSTO UAVs will conduct research in the upper atmosphere, and return to the labs at Laythos. After Exploration is complete, all four of the AeroLab and SeaLab bases, take off as spaceplanes and are returned to orbit. The Lab units will be towed home to Kerbin. All of the other vehicles and their pilots remain on Laythee to take part in LSE3. 7. Laythee Surface Expedition III (LSE3) The New Kerbin Colony* Kerbalkind’s first offworld surface colony. (I didn’t bother with a Munbase this game.) Exact location TBD after LSE2 is complete. A handful of buildings (a Lab, Hab Unit/Command Post etc.) will be parachuted to the surface, and serve as a permanent base for the ATFVs and Pices SSTO Jetboats. 8. Joolian Communications Network (JCOM)* A network of eight communications satellites. Four in orbit around Laythee at 90 degree intervals, and a similar arrangement of four in a distant orbit around Jool. 9. JEF Return Flight (JRF) A departure window to Kerbin opens 100 days after Arrival. All of the men and equipment that will be going home will gather in an orbit near the JRS that will be designated “the Tylo Staging Area†The lab units full of science and hab units full of Kerbals will be loaded on to one or two of the older tugs and brought home. Leaving all the newer gear behind for the Ongoing Mission. 10. JEF: The Ongoing Mission* Presumably, with Tylopia, Lathos and New Kerbin, with half a dozen landers, tons of fuel, and science equipment galore, the exploration will continue. When the JRF returns home and KSC scientists get their hands on all that science they would have further questions, and these guys would be there to answer them. (But I won’t be doing any of that. Once the JRF gets home, and I tally up all the science and funds from contracts, I’m rolling the credits on this game and finally starting over in 1.x) Missions marked * are basically just for fun and looks. There is no real in-game value to them. Tylopia won’t be doing any serious science. That will all be at the JRS. Same for New Kerbin vs Laythos. And a stock game (0.25) doesn’t really need comm sats. Fact is: I had extra money in the budget. Failsafes, Backup Plans, and Contingency Plans: I tend to overdesign. I can’t plan a landing without thinking, “What if it crashes?†So every plan has a backup plan and every backup plan has a failsafe. Crash TyLEM I? We have TyLEM II (although we lose the JOOL-5 Challenge. Crash TyLEM II? It’s possible a Delta lander could make it with extra fuel and no payload. Every Rover has a Delivery and Extraction Vehicle, (DEV) which has an extra seat. If the rover crashes the pilot can walk to the extraction point and board the DEV himself. But in that contingency he has to dump a third of the monoprop to compensate for his bodyweight. (We tested that on Minmus.) The Challenger carries two Delta landers, (each one has two emergency rescue seats) if one crashed, we could rescue the crew with the other and still win the JOOL-5 Challenge, although in that scenario we fail at Jeb Level, because we lose the science payload. Crash on Laythee? There are a half dozen vehicles in LSE2 that could be used for rescue. In fact, every single vehicle (rover, tug, lander, seaplane, etc.) of the JEF has a probe core or an RC unit and can be sent unmanned to rescue a crewman. Even Laythos Station has a pair of “Emergency Crew Deorbiters†just in case they have to evacuate the station. Nothing in a stock beta game will ever cause them to need to do that. (But it may be fun to do a drill.) I’m actually hoping something goes wrong. What I’ve Learned Everything. Basically, I’ve had to learn every single aspect of this game and order to do this. When I started, I couldn’t do the Rocket Equation, so I was still guessing at fuel requirements (The Kerbal way!) When someone tried to teach it to me, I responded with sobbing emojis. I had to learn delta V, Isp, fuel requirements, how spaceplanes worked (in the beta atmosphere) When I started it was costing me (and using any disposable rocket its costing you) about 2000 funds to lift one ton to orbit. After I developed the "Saturn SSTO" reusable booster, I knocked that down to 600 funds/ton. And at least as far as the fuel in a MegaTanker, it now costs me 2000 funds/ton to go to JOOL! That alone, doubled the size of the fleet. OK, Maybe I Did Go Too Far During the course of this project, I wondered if anyone has done anything like this before, in a career game. And now that I’ve gotten this far I can safely say “probably notâ€Â. The fact is that at every stage of this project so far (vehicle design, vehicle testing, launching, orbital assembly, orbital maneuvering, departure) about three quarters of way through it all became pretty dull. They say repetition is the key to learning, all I can say is, “Boy, can I dock!†Someone in the forums told me they did something similar, and it took 13 rocket launches to haul everything to orbit. This made me wonder how many I used. There were 23 rocket launches scheduled on the spreadsheet, but that doesn’t count three refueling ships, a half dozen spaceplanes, with crewmen and small payloads, or the four interplanetary tugs that were already in orbit. And each of those scheduled 23 launches required, on average, three deorbiting maneuvers for the SSTO boosters. So that’s like 75 booster modules reentering, parachuting down, and being recovered. And I had to do each and every one of those before the next launch or I couldn’t afford the next launch. Like I said, it became pretty dull. Putting all the vehicles in Kerbin Departure Orbit, also took forever. Five or six burns per ship, 12 ships. That’s 60 plus perigee kick maneuvers! At 6 minutes each, over 6 hours of burns, not counting how much time it took getting each of those 12 pigs pointing in the right direction, and we haven’t even left orbit! That took over a week and it became pretty dull. After I was done with that I had to stop playing the game for a while to avoid burnout. Because I know what’s next, 12 long-burn departures! I have now come to the conclusion that in order to do anything bigger than this you would have to have some kind of obsessive/compulsive disorder. Indeed, the fact that I have done this, probably means that I’m borderline. A team of two or three players working in shifts, and encouraging one another, could easily do something much larger. But I’m here to tell you, 12 ships at once for one man is pretty much the limit of “fun.†But hopefully, all of this will pay off when I’m conducting landing after landing after landing on Bop and Pol. When I’m hotrodding RoverLab across the surface of Val, and Jetboating a Pices on the oceans of Laythee, and shattering every known record for science gathered in a single mission!! (Well, that’s the plan, anyway) Wish me luck!

When I was a kid playing with model rockets, I launched one once andt its parachute failed, it came straight down and stuck in the ground like a lawn dart (remember them?). Put a big dent in the balsa wood nose cone. So I tried to “fix it†by sanding it down, until it looked right. On the next launch. As soon as it cleared the gantry, it made an immediate left and flew horizontally like a cruise missile. (lucky it didn't come at me!) I found it a block and ½ away in pieces. EDIT: In retrospect, the dent probably didn't change the mass of the nose cone or the center of gravity of the rocket, but me sanding it sure did!

I find myself trying to do that now on ACTUAL photos and videos of spacecraft.

My layman's understanding, is that IRL vertical reentry does not create nearly the same heat as aerobraking. That's how those sub-orbital parachuting guys don't burn up. /layman

CorelDraw

I play a stock game, the only mod I use is Kerbal alarm clock. But I am stuck in 0.25, I have this massive fleet I amsending to Jool, and I cannot upgrade of the moment. And yes, with the numberof ships I’m sending, their size, and partcount (and regrettable number oflights) I’m having a serious problem with frame rate. (and I can only expect a more accurate physicsmodel to be slower) When I catch up with all you guys in 1. X I'll give it a try. EDIT: but did we SOLVE the n-body problem? or is the symplectic integration thing some kind of a shortcut?