herbal space program

If their shabby treatment of the KSP fanbase is a one-off, I have to agree. But does look to me like they've Hoovered up a fair number of such niche markets in the last few years, and if they treat all those the same way they appear to be treating us, they may end up finding that they have shot themselves in the foot. Time will tell I guess.

Totally agree with this, and on top of that, just screwing the whole KSP fanbase would be horrendous brand stewardship for TT. It will generate a fairly large number of never-buy-one-of-your-kruffty-games-again dissatisfied customers, as well as a lot of negative publicity in the gaming press. You can say they're too big to care about us little guys, but eventually all those disaffected little guys will add up to a giant angry mob that will significantly harm revenue and scare investors away. They can't all be such short-sighted clods that they don't understand this. So I stand by my hope that they might still try to salvage the KSP2 title by handing it off to a new group that might have a better skillset to manage such a technically challenging project, and I don't think you have to be a total sucker to hold out such hope.

I'm not holding my breath! But it's still a ray of hope that TT may not intend to just tank the game completely.

I was certainly not happy with the state of the game I bought for $50, but I still played it for almost 400 hours, and in my neck of the woods a single night at the movies for two will cost that much, so it's hard for me to to muster too much outrage over this disappointment. And the fact that I plunked down those $50 and (seemingly) got let down does not make me some kind of rube. The solution to the prisoner's dilemma is to always trust on the first move, then adjust your actions based on the outcome of that. Take Two now has two options with respect to me: They can just let the KSP2 franchise die in this sorry state, or they can hand it off to another developer group among the large number they have recently acquired that may be able to get the job done better. If they do the latter, then I'm still happy with my investment. If OTOH they do the former, I will not stomp and rage and threaten to sue, but they will surely never get another dime of my money as long as I live, and I am a person who thinks nothing of plunking down $50 to buy a decent entertainment experience. IOW, they will have thrown away maybe 10 times the revenue they got from my KSP2 purchase by abusing my trust like that. Not a good long-term strategy for a game studio!

That's the first ray of hope I've seen since this whole debacle dropped. I pray to the Kraken it is not a false one!

Go look up the term "brand stewardship" and get back to me. I didn't just fall off a turnip truck you know!

I don't think there's any way either ESA or NASA would buy the KSP2 IP outright, but I could imagine that one or both agencies might fund a small grant to support its further development by some indie studio that might acquire the IP down the road. Hope springs eternal!

The truth however is they can't just think in such mechanical terms, because they can't magically predict the future with 100% accuracy. They have to make a guess like anybody else. And more importantly perhaps, future revenues for an entertainment company don't depend entirely on such hard-nosed decisions to kill your babies the second they underperform. That approach may work for stockbrokers, but companies like Take Two have to take less tangible things into account like brand integrity and the customer loyalty that comes along with it. Those are not things you can calculate on a spreadsheet.

They are allowed to run an operating loss in the timeframe of development based on the expectation of future profits when the product is complete. That is what I said. I'm not sure where your semantic hang-up is.

Looks like it actually went up over $9bn from 2022-2023, nearly tripling their total assets. That's a lot of smaller fish to gobble up in a short time! I understand what you're saying, but that can't be quite true for a developer of entertainment products that take years to complete. There has to be a certain amount of time such operations are allowed to continue running at a loss -- but then perhaps IG has already expended all the slack they were going to get in that regard based on projected future sales.

Wow, those two charts together paint quite a stark picture! Continually rising revenue against a $2Bn + crash in net earnings over two years, going from $600m in the black to a whopping $1.6bn in the red! How do you even do that? IG's entire budget must be just a drop in the bucket compared to that titanic sum. They must have made a whole bunch of other really bad investments to crash their earnings so badly.

LOL. I guess some of us are still stuck in the anger phase. The only thing I blame Squad for is creating a game that I love so much that seeing its sequel die on the vine is like losing a family member.

I am no lawyer, but I gather the best possible outcome this community could achieve by legal action would be for everybody to get their lousy $50 back (minus legal fees), after which TT might feel motivated to retaliate by driving a stake through the heart of the franchise forever. I really don't want to see that happen, so count me out even if it is possible.

Wow, so sad. I was mentally prepared to have to wait a long time before KSP2 became all the things we were hoping it would be, but I really didn't think they would just pull the plug on it so soon. If they really choose not to develop it any further, I just hope that somehow the IP will find its way into more nurturing hands by and by. I for one would be happy to pitch in to support a crowdfunded development effort on the part of the game's stellar modding community, but I suppose that's just a pipe dream at this point.

That sounds like a sensible compromise between fully implemented resource extraction and OP colony bases that can magically make anything out of nothing besides EC, but in my book that would still involve resources on some level, i.e. some base resource has to be present on the body you're occupying to enable production of specific things. Even better in my book would be if the game requires you to set up your colony within some distance of said resource, e.g. near water deposits in some permanently shadowed Munar crater, which doesn't seem like it would require a whole lot of new stuff to implement, but I guess we'll see.

If they have decided that any capability for resource extraction and ISRU will require a full-on colony/factory setup rather than just the the handful of parts used for that purpose in KSP1, then I agree there is no point to implementing any resource extraction before they have the colony parts. But OTOH building factories and resource extraction systems without any actual resources to use them on also seems kind of pointless to me in terms of gameplay, and just setting up Kerbal Kamps that sit around requiring maintenance and doing nothing else doesn't really sound very fun to me either. So I suppose the reality in my mind is more like resources and colonies are kind of intimately tied together, rather than one requiring full implementation before the other makes sense, and thus the best path for gameplay might actually be to incrementally build both systems together rather than categorically placing one before the other. I have no idea if that's a nonstarter for development reasons, but I can sure think of a snappy name for the first update if that what they were to do -- "Kerbal Kolonies: Just Add Water! " ...And finally, after reading through the more recent interview segments more closely, I'm thinking that there will actually be some kind of basic, almost certainly water-based ISRU system coming along with the first tranche of colony parts, while any more complex and diverse utilization of resources is still on the back burner. Time will tell!

I guess I understand the bugs argument, but the rest of what you said I'm not so sure about. Just being able to make hydrogen fuel and oxidizer in-situ by utilizing water (the obvious first resource) would actually be pretty cool! Hydrogen is obviously a fuel in itself, and oxidizer is so much heavier than methane per impulse generated that being able to just take just the methane with you and generate the oxidizer in situ would give new life to methalox as a propellant later in the game. And wouldn't it be nifty if your orbital survey experiments earlier in the game actually yielded a map that shows water deposits? As to all that requiring colony parts, I don't really see it that way. All you'd really need is a resource scanner part, a water extraction part, a water tank, and a hydrolyzer part, which are things that (in principle) already existed in KSP1. And of course once there is some kind of colony habitation module, oxygen would be its most obvious continual need if there's going to be anything like life support in the game, and again you get that from water. Anyway, I'm not complaining about it, but it does seem to me that you could get a whole lot of gameplay mileage relative to where we are now just by adding water to the game with a handful of parts. A fair point, but apropos of that I feel compelled to point out that keeping us interested in finding and reporting those bugs requires that the game be fun to play, and what I outlined above seems like a pretty easy-to-implement way to maximize that element. But we'll see I guess.

Thank you for that @The Space Peacock! There's a great deal of food for thought here. One thing that does kind of have me scratching my helmet over all this is why they're choosing to implement colonies before they put any kind of resource system in place. To me, the most natural game progression would seem to be the other way around. That is, you start by exploring the other bodies in the Kerbolar system in general terms, then as your science capabilities advance you start doing orbital surveys to find deposits of key resources required for fuel generation, life support, etc., and then you start building outposts where those resources are found. Ultimately, as science progresses further this system leads to colonies focused on extracting/producing various types of unobtainium that are required to make/power an interstellar vessel that must be built in some big orbital factory. Having colony outposts before that progression is laid down therefore seems kind of backwards to me, but I guess time will tell why they're doing it this way instead.

I want to say thank you @Dakota for restoring the deleted content from the other thread. I understand the discussion was off topic, and for my part I promise that in the spirit of good community membership I will be more judicious in the future about where I post comments like that. Still, it felt quite harsh to just see it all yanked out of existence, as I did put a significant amount of thought into what I said, and for that reason seeing it restored makes me feel a whole lot better about my participation here. I hope others who were affected will see this significant and important gesture in the same way.

It's hard for me to believe that Dakota really wanted all that content deleted , considering he said in that very thread that it was important for us to keep telling them what we want, which is what I feel I was doing, without being rude or disrespectful, even though it was not on-topic for that thread. I've spent over 400 hours playing KSP2 now, in spite of all the frustrating problems, and I was really just trying to explain what the truly pressing issues are that cause innocent but fluffy posts like the Dev blog in question to get met with groans rather than cheers. I even stood up for the blog post's author, because this is clearly not their fault. Anyway, if they don't want my insights because these issues have been "talked to death", then I will spend my precious free time doing something that feels less pointless. Hopefully when I come back after taking a break for a few months, it will be to a different kind of party.

I feel you. That heavy-handed bloodbath by the moderators on the Dev blog thread has pretty much taken all the wind out of my sails, and I won't be seen here again for quite a while.

They each have their own specialties, so they can't really all work on these problems at the same time, but your point about the small things is very well-taken. The current behavior of the UI in map mode is a perfect example of that. How hard could it possibly be for them to fix the way that various informational pop-up windows always obscure the info you really want to see in such a manner that you can't close them, rearrange them, or rotate the view to get them out of the way? How does a simple but incredibly annoying bug like that survive even a few hours of play testing? It's hard not to get the idea sometimes that they actually hate us and are deliberately taunting us with things like this.

What I was talking about with my Eve 10 stack was definitely this and not any inherent lack of rigidity causing my rockets to self-disassemble on the launchpad. With a few struts placed in the obvious places, I haven't had any problems at launch with any of my craft since the most recent update. What I was talking about happens when the craft is in orbit, with no non-uniform forces acting on it, and although having SAS on seems to make it happen more often, it happens sometimes with SAS off as well. It also only seems to happen when I have a craft made from two or more assemblies that were docked together in orbit. And it always starts very small and gets steadily more violent until the craft flies apart, which very much supports your model of incorrectly implemented dampening of small motions causing feedback loops in certain cases. FWIW, it also seems to happen a whole lot less now than it did before, so they seemed to have fixed it in most cases, but it still does happen occasionally.

Indeed, if you're going to land 300 bleepin' tons of something on Duna, it should actually be something that will ultimately be useful in some way! Nothing we have in our current parts inventory looks very likely to me in that regard. Even my Eve 10 lander, which at least serves the purpose of getting ten Kerbals to the surface and back, only weighs ~175t with its landing legs and brakes/chutes still attached, so 300 tons of what?

For Eve I consider it an interesting challenge, especially since I don't have the magic inflatable heat shield yet. Landing a 300t ship on Duna however just seems like a boring, pointless grind to me: easy, but also very time-consuming without proving anything.