DasValdez

Is a Gen 8-9 Terrier (909) that been tested supposed to have a lower safety rating? We have a Gen 11 terrier Tested: True with 1 previous use that only gets a Engine Safety Rating of 9. Intentional or config issue? Thanks!

Well, determined today that the spamming still happens even if the craft is attached to launch clamps. Huh.

Ok, Status Update! It looks like craft recovery via KCT might not be incrementing part generations at all. Fly and recover a plane 5 times using the KCT Recover to SPH, go to retrofit it with new parts, and they come back as the same generation. It seems to only increment if you recover the craft via the stock "recover" function, then build it again using the same parts? @severedsolo can you give us any details on the logic by which generations are increased? Also, I'm curious as to whether or not parts which are launched but not recovered (e.g. expendable stages) should be incrementing. Still hanging in there with having to "test" newly built parts by rolling them to pad and then recovering them to scrapyard. Getting to be more and more annoying... the best fix we've been able to come up with is being able to right click parts on the flight scene and "run a preflight check" to get them past their "untested" state. Scenario we've been using a lot: Have a plane that's recovered and reused via KCT. Pre-build new "payload, which is "completed" but "not tested", and integrate with plane. IF you roll and recover to "test" payload, the plane gets penalized a use for all it's parts, which is especially impactful since plane parts only last 5 uses before they start to fail... only two payload flights per rebuild that way. We can deploy the payload to get the test done separately, but that it tedious and time consuming... not fun to do or watch. Spamming on part failure rolls before launch. We're still encountering the part failure attempt spam when we deploy a plane to the runway. Scenario is we roll out a plane, Alt-F12 for the console, and see Oh Scrap spamming failure rolls twice per second. We can stop it by firing up the engines and getting the plane rolling. Can you help us understand why it would EVER/in what craft situation want to spam multiple rolls per second? Again, not sure if this is related to the "World Stabilizer" mod confusing the craft situation, but it isn't clear to me why Oh Scrap would ever roll twice per second. MINOR: Still struggling with part inventory/Scrapyard not displaying or grouping by the generations. Manageable but the larger our inventory gets, the more of a pain it is to find usable parts. Would be great it the UI (and this might be scrapyard feedback) allowed us to group by gen AND reliability rating... sometimes I don't care the gen as long as it's high reliability

I believe this is true, if you install the mod after starting a new career save, the first "launch a vessel" and "get science" contracts will not be modified, but contracts created after those are completed will be affected by the mod.

I actually just disabled the monthly ship upkeep because it was charging me the same rate for a 7 part com relay as it did a 500 part space station. Same issue with launches... same cost for a test stand rollout as a massive rocket, so for that we just decreased the price to make it more reasonable for simple rollouts, and will upgrade the costs based on the pad building level (which happens only 2 times per save) as opposed to a per rocket basis.

Update, on 1.4.2 we didn't see any failures during KRASH sims, and the people rejoiced (yay). Thanks again! We did see an issue where the failure roll was being called multiple times per second before launch, but it may be a conflict with World Stabilizer... something is causing our rockets to roll for fail maybe twice per second while they're sitting on the pad. Not a showstopper, and potentially would be resolved once we get to launch clamps. One growing frustration is that we can't see part generation in Scrapyard (as discussed before)... it's getting difficult to find the higher gen reliable parts, or at least clean up the lower gen stuff. --------- Feedback: Doing the "preflight test" for parts begins to get a little tedious when you're combining reusable parts with new parts. Scenario: a reusable crew module with a disposable SRB. If you integrate the whole rocket and roll it out to the pad, your booster will be "untested" and thus lower the reliability. If you recover the entire ship, now the booster becomes tested (increasing reliability) but the crew module gets one more previous use (decreasing reliability). The solution is to create the booster separately, roll it out to the pad alone, recover it, scrap it, then create a new ship using the reused crew module and the "tested" booster parts... doable, but tedious. We were actually building booster 5 packs, but at the end of the day it's still just rolling out a partial ship and recovering it immediately. On top of the tedium, you're also only really getting 4 uses out of a part, since you have to burn the first use on testing. An elegant solution would be to allow "Preflight Inspection" to the flight scene PAW. Right click the part, and click a button to do a preflight inspection, which flips it to tested, gives it the reliability boost of a tested part, and incentivizes you to have an actual pre-launch checklist you need to run, ESPECIALLY focusing on newly built parts. Forget your preflight, or miss a part, and you run with the lower reliability. Also gives you a good reason to do a final check on part tweakables, since there's the weird issue where a part will lose it's settings sometimes if you replace it from Scrapyard inventory, or click "use new part". Chutes lose altitude config, engines lose throttle limit, etc.

@severedsolo Heads up, Github file is missing the .zip extension. Renaming resolved on my end.

Yes, 1.5.1, no intention of moving to 1.6 until 1.6.+, whatever that turns out to be. Also, thanks. I'll be your test team anytime. Will try the new version, and please excuse the repeated look of abject defeat. Just keep swimming... we worked around it.

SRBs https://clips.twitch.tv/QuaintJazzyClipzBrainSlug Still https://clips.twitch.tv/YummyMagnificentScorpionCharlietheUnicorn\ Failing https://clips.twitch.tv/ImportantExpensiveSwallowKappa ...in KRASH. 1.4.1 Fresh off the download. On the plus side, the release/reinstall did seem to resolve my issue with parts not gen upping.

Gotcha, will install 1.4.1 and see if behavior continues. To confirm, no part failures should occur in simulation mode. I understand that "right click, force failure" is out of scope currently.

@severedsolo... So, we actually started UHC Career today, and seem to be having some weird behavior with the mod I didn't observe before. Using your version 1.4 based on the changelog file. SRBs don't seem to be properly incrementing their generation. I fly a mission, decouple the SRB, recover the pod, go back to build a new rocket with a new SRB... and the SRB is still gen 1. No matter what, it always stuck at gen 1. Previously, we got our SRB gens up to 30+ by flying tons of suborbital tourism missions... decoupled and destroyed the SRB every time but it would still up the gen. Have not actually confirm if this is SRBs only, it was just the glaring issue so far. The only way I've gotten an SRB to increase it's gen is by literally setting up a rig that rolled it off the launchpad, using the stock recovery button to recover the actual SRB itself, and then going back to build a new SRB. Do you actually have to recover the part itself to increase the gen now? Unfortunately, that's not really workable in a real career. Am I missing something? ---------- We're also using OhScrap with KRASH, which is maddening with low-reliability SRBs. I wasted stacks of kerbucks setting up a sim to test the flight profile of a rocket, only to have the SRB fail at launch and get no actual data from the sim. That, coupled with the fact that I couldn't actually upgrade the generation on the SRBs was driving me insane. In a sim, there should be no random failures. There should be intentional failures, ie, right click on a part and force it to fail... but no random failures. It seems like there may be a line of code to prevent sim failures, but maybe it doesn't apply to SRBs? If I'm completely missing something, let me know, but whew! Was a rough first day of Ultra Hardcore Career due to mod weirdness.

If you're using the KCT/OhScrap/Scrapyard combo, you can also land them, use the "Recover to Craft Inventory" feature, and then edit that craft and reintegrate a new payload just by adding the missing parts. Gives you the opportunity to refill the fuel tanks, add a new fairing, etc. You can even "prebuild" the payload, scrap it from the vessel inventory (which puts all the payload parts into your part inventory), then use those parts to add the payload to the rocket from a sub assembly (that's what I'm doing with my air-dropped GSGS ground relays). Only slight annoyance there is that you have to manually click each part in the payload and use scrapyard to use the part from inventory instead of a new part. Would be beautiful if craft from inventory could be merged into craft in the editor, or appear as a subassembly, or something. Haha we did finally hit that plateau, lost count of the attempts. Its pretty rough when every drop attempt means you have to refly the entire mission, but I was "testing the aircraft failure rates". Promise. Here's one way to hit the target area...

Ahhh, so this goes back to my previous feedback, displaying part generation in the scrapyard UI. Sounds like it may be a little more involved, as scrapyard isn't grouping by the gen, on the part type and number of uses. Good to know that we can discard or just stack out all the parts in the mean time... just requires understanding whats happening. We also figured a workable workaround for the "use new part" not incrementing gen when recovered via craft inventory (as you probably saw)... we can run it out on an engine "test stand, fire up the engines and scoot so we get an MET, and then recover using stock recovery. That puts the used and tested engines in inventory so they can be swapped onto an existing aircraft with edit, and the next time you build a new engine you get the next gen. Have to RP it a bit, because you could cheese to max generation, but that's ok, not everything has to be enforced by code.

Tried it, by default all parts on flying craft go to gen 0 and your Space Station falls apart in a hilarious, but very kerbal, way.

Excellent... right now the lack of progression in reused plane parts is the biggest hamper to aircraft. Its really cool to bring the plane into the hangar and overhaul (replace with new parts, really) the engines and control surfaces after x flights, or after a failure, but right now swapping them out never increases the generation. Two quick questions: 1) Do you know any workaround which would allow me to increment the generations given that they don't increment on active vessel recovery? 2) Right now, is there a way via configs to increase expected lifetime of plane parts? I see how I can do control surfaces, but engines seem to be grouped under all engine types, and same with fuel tanks. Its done by a wider "tank" config and not on a part by part basis? This is really getting dialed in!

Have a bit of confusion with part generations @severedsolo. I have a set of gen 4 plane part that have multiple (4+) uses. I recover the vessel into SPH inventory, then go to edit it and replace those parts using the "use new part" button in scrapyard. This does not, however, increase their generation. Does generation only increase for parts that are either destroyed or recovered using the stock "recovery" button, and not for the "Recovery craft into inventory" one? Also, every time we recover an aircraft from the runway into inventory, the editor looks like it's orienting it like a rocket, plane is doing a tail stand next time you launch it. You have to to and edit the craft from inventory and reset it's orientation 90 degrees or hilarity ensues upon loading it to the runway. Wasn't sure if this is supposed to go in ScrapYard or OhScrap, but thought generations were a function of OhScrap so here it is.

Heyo! Sitting down to test this out on longer missions, does it make sense to wait until your next release? Thanks in advance!

Firing up Beta 6 testing now! Thanks!

No way, you owe us no apology! You've been so responsive and helpful... I can't wait to see how it turns out. I hope our feedback is useful and makes the mod better for everyone... it's like crowdsourcing mod ideas and testing with a few hundred people in real time. Cfg files are legit, puts the onus on us to "play around", and if we get far in and determine what worked for early mission can't work for later ones, we can rebalance if need be. Oh Scrap, ScrapYard, KCT, and KRASH with no revert hard mode have made it a totally different game... usually in career it's orbit on the second flight, and we've spent days just creating the infrastructure to safely test an uncrewed orbital flight... including having the communications and recovery infrastructure in place just in case it goes wrong. Again, you absolutely rock, and this is a great mod o7

Wow, you do NOT want to fly a plane with gen 2-3 parts more than 7 flights hahahaha. I think we had *all* the failures on a mid range flight. Engine power loss, 3/4 fuel tank leaks, probe core reaction wheel, basically everything in the cockpit that could fail... it was baaaad. I was making pretty heavy use of a plane for short missions... how would higher gen parts affect that reliability? Are all planes going to be 6 uses and done, or if I was using gen 10 parts, could I get 20 flights out of one before I had to basically rebuild it from scratch? Seems like some plane parts will need vast different expected uses than rocket parts. Perhaps higher gens need to buff the expected uses as well. Also, the "tested" requirement is a bit tedious... if it works the way we think. If I put a brand new part on the aircraft, it looked to have a really low reliability, until I rolled it out to the runway, ran up the engines, taxied a bit, and then recovered it. On the second use, my tier 3 control surfaces and such jumped from safety 3 to 9. Is that always going to be the case, or once I get to high gen parts can I just roll them out with their full safety on the first use. That is really only an issue because it takes up one of your 6 uses before the plane falls apart in the sky, haha. If plane parts lasted longer, the flight line check would be less of an issue (and actually kinda cool and realistic). One of my moderators also put in a bug report for the time between failure not resetting, it was stuck on 30 minute checks for the plane while in flight, and I think not switching check frequency correctly when situation changed. Details in the report. I'm having a blast with this, wooo!

Totally understood! From a hardcore career standpoint, they need to be rolled very infrequently so I can't just toss up a relay sat and have it live forever. Failures in the relay network are exciting, heh! Maybe even an expected lifetime based on gen that increases failure chance with MET. Continuing more testing today, you rock!

Well, I tend to talk a lot before launch, so that explains that hahaha. To confirm, OhScrap doesn't simulate anything for unloaded vessels, right? No chance to get a failure on a relay sat you deployed but never need to switch back to? Will be standing by, let us know how we can help!

No failures all day today, using the Beta 3 version. Was not able to replicate the SRB issues from yesterday (which was good) but also built a few ships with terrible reliability ratings and had zero failures. Does it log the rolls to somewhere we can see if it's actually missing fails?

Will do, grabbing the lastest beta and firing up right meow. o7

One attempt per Kerbal, or one attempt per level, would be cool. Not critical with the 90% on a lvl 5 engi o7 Will see what data we can get on the 1% failure rate, napkin math says it's a no-go for even a mun mission right now. A buzzer warning sound on failure might be good, to make it less likely to miss the message or highlight (especially on larger vessels). Cheers, and thanks again!