Nefrums

Here is a complete dV table from my mission: [TABLE=width: 799] [TR] [TD]Maneuver[/TD] [TD]Ship[/TD] [TD]Engine[/TD] [TD]dV[/TD] [TD]Fuel[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Kerbin surface -> LKO[/TD] [TD]Motherhip[/TD] [TD]Rapier - Air breathing[/TD] [TD]3703 dV[/TD] [TD]300 LF[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]Rapier - Closed cycle[/TD] [TD]732 dV[/TD] [TD]520 LF/OX[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]266 dV[/TD] [TD]513 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]LKO -> Laythe high orbit[/TD] [TD]Motherhip[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]1130 dV[/TD] [TD]2075 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Laythe surface -> Low orbit[/TD] [TD]Layte lander + ion scooter[/TD] [TD]Rapier - Air breathing[/TD] [TD]3162 dV[/TD] [TD]80 LF[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]832 dV[/TD] [TD]255 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Lythe low orbit -> High orbit[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]612 dV[/TD] [TD]183 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Layte high orbit -> Bop intercept[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]201 dV[/TD] [TD]60 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Bob Landing[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]465 dV[/TD] [TD]138 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Bob surface -> low orbit[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]215 dV[/TD] [TD]62 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Bob low orbit - Pol intercept[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]127 dV[/TD] [TD]37 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Pol Landing[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]388 dV[/TD] [TD]113 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Pol surface -> low orbit[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]149 dV[/TD] [TD]43 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Pol Low orbit -> Laythe high orbit[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]200 dV[/TD] [TD]58 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Rendezvous in Laythe high orbit[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]449 dV[/TD] [TD]130 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Laythe high orbit -> Tylo high orbit[/TD] [TD]Motherhip[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]121 dV[/TD] [TD]131 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Tylo high orbit -> low orbit[/TD] [TD]Tylo lander + ion scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]807 dV[/TD] [TD]620 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Tylo landing[/TD] [TD]Tylo lander[/TD] [TD]spark[/TD] [TD]2459 dV[/TD] [TD]202 LF/OX[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Tylo surface -> low orbit[/TD] [TD]Tylo lander[/TD] [TD]spark[/TD] [TD]1996 dV[/TD] [TD]78 LF/OX[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD]EVA[/TD] [TD]~500? dV[/TD] [TD]3,28 Eva fuel[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Tylo low orbit -> Tylo high orbit[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]884 dV[/TD] [TD]256 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Tylo high orbit -> Vall high orbit[/TD] [TD]Motherhip[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]85 dV[/TD] [TD]48 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Vall high orbit -> low orbit[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]221 dV[/TD] [TD]64 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Vall landing[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]1134 dV[/TD] [TD]334 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Vall surface -> low orbit[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]1112 dV[/TD] [TD]329 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Vall low orbit -> high orbit[/TD] [TD]Ion Scooter[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]240 dV[/TD] [TD]69 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Vall high orbit -> Kerbin intercept[/TD] [TD]Mothership[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]390 dV[/TD] [TD]197 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Kerbin retro bun[/TD] [TD]Mothership[/TD] [TD]Ions[/TD] [TD]1099 dV[/TD] [TD]542 Xenon[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Disclaimer: I did not record this during the mission so I have calculated the dV based on the amount of fuel from my screenshots, so i might have miscalculated something.

Well we cant let the Danes beat us now can we? Stingray Mk2: 53.75% I think this design has a bit more to give. I made orbit on the first attempt.

Mission completed. Ship mass 13.484 Game version: 1.0.4 Mods: Precision node, KER

Nice one Val, well done!

There are always room for improvement, but I dont think 10t is possible with the type of design used in the low mass missions so far. With the new smaller jets in 1.0.5 a significantly smaller Laythe lander will probably be possible. But the 2t rapier will still be needed for the kerbin assent as nothing else comes close to the efficiency of that. And there is not much fuel to be saved by not dragging the rapier to jool, as the fuel ratio of xenon is only about 4% of total ship mass to get to Jool. 3-4 of the 0.12t xenon tanks is enough to get a 8t ship from LKO to Jool. (about double that for a standard Hohmann transfer). I'll try to finish my mission tonight, all looks good so far. The 1.8t Tylo lander did work

wait to say that until we know if I'm able to complete the challenge with it I'm starting to have doubts about the "improvements" to the tylo lander, with the old one Jeb had only 20% eva fuel left when he got back to the ion scooter.

I can post a pic of the ship when I get home from work. I don't even remember how far i managed to decrease the mass as I changed the amount of fuel for Kerbin assent back and forth a lot, but I think it was around 13.5t.

I redesigned the ship again... Jool Arrow Mk8 is now in Laythe orbit. I'm getting better and better at flying the K-E-K-K-J route, this time it only took like 2 hours The Mk7 had about 1800 units of xenon to mush so i removed 3 of the 11 tanks (2100 units) in the Mk8. This time I will not have to mush fuel I made the ion scooter more aerodynamic so I could decrease LF to 80 from 120 for the Laythe lander. I also decreased LF/OX in the first stage of the Tylo lander to 180 from 200 (It will probably still work... I think... Did not really test it... at all.. ) As the Mk7 was easy to get to LKO, I decreased the fuel for Kerbin assent a bit in the Mk8, It was barely able to reach LKO. Like the 20t Mk5 version that I completed the challenge with last time it could not get the PE out of the atmosphere in one go and had to reenter Kerbins upper atmosphere.

Very had to say, as the ship loses mass as the landers are discarded. But here is the dV I used for the mother ship in my last mission, the mother ship stayed in elliptical orbit with AP close to the edge of the SOI and PE as close to the planet as posible: LKO -> Laythe orbit: 1135dV Laythe orbit -> Tylo orbit: 108 dV Tylo orbit -> Vall orbit: 74 dV Vall orbit -> Kerbin intecept: 288 dV

Why do I always bring to mush fuel. The entire flight feels sub optimal when i bring several k of dV back to kerbin.

Thanks. Your ion lander could do lite over 600 dV burns on batteries right?

Thanks. To maximize the ion lander for Vall, I just added batteries to be able to burn about half of the xenon in a single burn and hoped for the best. And it turns out that ~1200dV at ~1.5 twr is enough for Vall. When landed I had about 90 units of electricity left in the batteries. And when back in low orbit it was almost out of xenon. I must have screwed up something when i took the screenshot of the Ion scooter in the VAB, it has 5800 units of electricity, not 5320. There are still some room for improvements in the build, 14t might be possible.

Tylo and Vall landing completed! Loots of xenon left. Vall was indeed done with only ions. Here are some pics of the ship: http://imgur.com/Nlt1ypb http://imgur.com/W09DJQZ http://imgur.com/4Ia30mP I'll see if i get time to finish the mission tomorrow.

managed to get the mass bellow 15t. Total number of engines on the ship and all landers: 4 Laythe landing done, xenon use on budget. Tylo will be hard, Vall will be even harder. Not at all sure it will work.

Very nice Mesklin. I approve you mission. (You should post some mandatory details (game version, mods etc.) about you mission according to point 16 in the entry submission rules.) I have had a close look at all your lander and they are all feasible. It is a bit funny that all of the low mass submissions are so similar. Single rapier used for both for kerbin and Laythe assent, small ion craft for second stage on Laythe and landing on the small moons, two stage tylo lander. I think you have improved the design a bit by having two ion engines on the small ion lander, and that those engines are the only ion engines powering the mother ship. I am very happy that you beat my score! and gave me reason to revisit this challenge .

Well done! Looking forward to seeing the full repport. Jool Arrow Mk6 is on the drawing board.

nice mission so far! Looks like I will have to revisit the low mass category when you beat my score.

I think M7 will land on and crush the dippenkraft wreck (and possibly Bob) !

my old unmaned return trip to the mun:

been there, done that.

the trick is to keep the ship pointing as close to the center of the prograde marker as possible, to avoid losing dv. Do not use prograde lock as it causes the thrust to flip back and forth all the time, i.e not pointing directly forward all the time.

You know how Air Service guys always say "Any landing you can walk away from?"

There is a 1.0 thread for this challande: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/124055-Smallest-SSTO-for-1-0-challenge%21

I'm thinking of doing a (third) entry using lots of mods, two of with are not specifically listed: "TAC Life Support" and "USI Kolonization Systems", are those allowed?

The ship looks very nice. Are there a Nerv and 9 liquid fuel fuselages clipped into that cargo bay? 6450m/s dV in LKO is realy alot, one can do amazing things when clipping stuff into cargo bays to negate any drag.