JoeSchmuckatelli

BO is certainly acting the fool at the moment - but if they don't succeed we end up with the single service provider problem. What's needed is aggressive competition, low cost and a variety of options for the market to develop in a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise we just get a lower cost for what we are already doing - which will result in smaller budgets as people push for more social projects rather than scientific

Right. My point is that EM wants to make space flight more like commercial jet service than bespoke one-offs. "25 years? they want to use starships FOR 25 YEARS MINMIMUN" Yep.

How long are commercial jets in service?

Links?

This is one of those arguments where you win by not playing (when someone is making a donkey of themselves, don't interrupt)... But Elon's response was well played

@sevenperforce - that 'cage' thing (the frame that moves up and down) is kind of what I thought would happen - except they've got it all pinned to one corner. I would think they'd want more flexibility. So why pin to a corner and not build something around that lifting part that can rotate around the cage/frame - and give them access to all 4 sides of the tower? @Beccab - someone at NASA got a phonecall from someone else's favorite Senator.

Certainly the latest videos of the walk through interview are interesting. I see pictures of other space companies' manufacturing - and everything is in a clean room (look at anything related to Webb). Musk is building rockets in tents and driving them down the road on commercial crawlers. Rocket engines going on and off outside. It's almost like he's treating them as machines - rather than super special fragile one-off custom creations.

I understand the mechanical advantages of this - just curious about whether there is a trade off - as in losing the ability to increase drag by having the scales 'fluff' (This is one of those 'I don't know if it is smoothness or cross section' that matters questions - clearly 'scales would not increase the cross section in a meaningful way... But they should be draggy.)

This is a bit esoteric - but IIRC, several months ago there was speculation about SS tiles, and whether they might use a scale pattern as opposed to the hexes they settled on. Recognizing that snakes and fish use scales that make them really efficient in one direction... Would there be any benefit to scales on SS - where in forward orientation they help air/plasma to distribute across the surface, but then during the landing phase could 'fluff out' and help with the deceleration (instead of a smooth cylinder, the scales would also catch the air) Perhaps a naive question - but just curious.

That's chilling. Odd, too. B/C if recent history teaches anything, wealthy and highly placed people are usually untouchable. He must have really p. O'd the wrong person.

The obvious counter-argument against my sniping at 'Traditional Aerospace' and 'Government funded high - tech jobs-work' programs*... As brought into focus by a Russian engineer /General Director: "... By the way, if humanity stops making smartphones for a couple of years, then we will forget how to make them and it will be very difficult to restore the processes. That is precisely why the Americans cannot build the Saturn-5 rocket. They have blueprints, knowledge, but that's not what you went, took blueprints from the shelf and made. It's a whole ecosystem. It's the same with Soviet achievements. Sometimes it's cheaper to make something new" https://tass.ru/kosmos/12115081 So there you have it - sometimes it is worth keeping people employed so they remain current and you don't have to reinvent the wheel. The ecosystem breaks down - and while you still have smart people... They recognize that it's likely better to move forward with a new design than to try to recreate the success of the past. *comments made in several other subforums

Lolz

What's with the 'Windows' sound? (0:44ish).

What we need is a Trans-pacific solution... And since the 80s pop-sci has envisioned something like Starship P2P (or a Shuttle - type lander). But even with several flights per day - I don't see the costs as anything but... (... I don't want to say the obvious...)

Artemis space suits - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/artemis-moonwalkers-spacesuits-will-not-be-ready-before-2025/ yep - lots of cooks in the kitchen Bepi-Colombo flyby of Venus - https://www.space.com/bepicolombo-venus-close-flyby-video-august-2021 (mostly confirmed that the spacecraft is operating and the planet remains spherical

Courts can halt everything - presuming the plaintiff can make it seem like irreparable harm will occur unless the courts act. This is where 'choosing venue' comes in - a sympathetic judge in Nebraska might be asked to rule on something happening in Texas and Florida if the clever attorney can justify it

As well you should be. Let's say our guess is correct and SX does perceive a market that does not yet exist. We and they won't know the perameters for decades, perhaps centuries - and that is presuming the market is truly ready to come into existence. As with all new markets, the players won't be small fish. There will be opportunities to service the market and remain free - but getting into the market is going to be at the mercy of the big players. I analogized the Age of Sail earlier - which is probably inapt... AoS created a market for making intensely local existing markets available for international exploitation. There are no existing markets outside of what we are already doing - so I think it's going to be more like what @mikegarrisonsuggested with 'there was no market for internet search providers, until there was'. And while the computer realm is replete with stories about garage start-ups... That only happened once costs came waaay down. Decades after computers were invented. I think the only thing that we can assume is that if SX & etc. succeed in getting costs down and cadence up... Something will happen. A long time after 'just people' will have a chance to get in. And then it gets really big.

"BO is not the upstart... Rather its a company that has spent millions and is still years away... " Mmmyeah, they might want to think about how that looks.

Having built a bunch of rovers that look just like that (far right) - they're in for nothing but frustration. No grip, wheels that inexplicably turn the wrong way, steering like a spastic fawn... It's like they never played KSP.

Except that you are launching an ICBM at a target... Which tends to make people nervous.

All this just reminds me how freaking difficult it is to do this stuff. Then compare the tonnage to Apollo?

Plutonium thermoelectric if you are going to be in shadow that long. The ship would have to blow up for it to be at all dangerous (well, any more dangerous than just being in space)

Did you just say 'Traditional Aerospace'? (Mike - don't hit me... Teh joke was too easy)

Yes you do. Makes the things that like to lurk and stalk nervous. Also lets the big things know you are coming so they can get out of the way or won't be startled. I think the fact that we are still breathing or not toiling away in an unobtanium mine is pretty solid evidence for showing that 'they' are not here. (but to your point - yeah, you don't advertise the location of your den and the tasty babies inside... That you kinda want to protect)

And @SunlitZelkova-after reading your exchange, I discovered that researching the particularity of language is really difficult on the internet (so much chaff and failure of the search engine to understand what you are looking for)... I started out trying to discover if English really is peculiar in the wordplay compared to other languages - and I'm not certain that it is. However, being that it is a polyglot of different source tongues and their rules and uses, there is certainly plenty of opportunity to do so. Along the way I discovered this article which you may enjoy! https://www.google.com/amp/s/aeon.co/amp/essays/why-is-english-so-weirdly-different-from-other-languages Edit also thjs: What may be side-splitting in one culture can be far from funny or even offensive in another. For example, in China making fun of oneself is not considered to be funny at all https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.unitedlanguagegroup.com/blog/lostintranslation/why-humor-does-not-translate%3fhs_amp=true So... What is funny in Chinese, I wonder - like what is Chinese Stand Up? Non-sequitur ended.