strider3

OK...what is "KJR"? I have over the years, with lots of work and (unfortunately) lots of trial and error with strutting, auto-strutting and reaction wheel settings, fixed most of the wobbly launches and my stations "death wobbles". The latest issue is new to me in 1.7.3...one large chunk of my station will disconnect at various times...and I do mean various times. . It can happen when I choose the station from the Tracking Station, and select "Fly", it can happen when I change to the station using the "[" or "]" key to select the station while flying another craft, it can happen when I cross the 2 KM or the 200 M barrier on approach to the station, it can happen when targeting a docking port on the station or it can happen when I actually dock to the station...or it can not happen at all at any of these times. In almost all instances, the station will "shudder" a bit (nothing like the increasing "death wobbles") and one part, either a tank stack or arm, will just...drift away. I have tried building the station without some "suspect" parts mods, like Future Construction and the weldable docking ports in Konstruction...makes absolutely no difference. I have tried tweaking the physics delta setting, as you mentioned...no difference at all. I have now spent over 5 months (real time) trying to get this station put together and the only thing that works is to save before any of the above mentioned times it can happen...and, if it comes apart, go back to the save and try, try again...until it doesn't come apart...VERY aggravating and time consuming. I have 10 tank arms attached, of 16 total...not very good for the time spent . (see below). I will say that I have had LOTS of you try and help with this, in various threads (depending on the "possible" issue) with no luck at all...but I do so appreciate everyone trying! I have heard "I've never heard of this" or, as you said "I have heard of it but never seen it". None of us can find the "smoking gun", at this point. It ain't "pretty", by any means...just functional.

I am trying to find tutorial, preferably video, of how to use MechJeb2 autopilot to control 1. a full launch/orbit/rendezvous with my space station. 2. a landing to a specific spot on a celestial body. What I've found, so far, on Youtube is either not very detailed or not very understandable (due to language difficulties)...or both. I am..."that guy"...I need a complete and detailed, step-by-step tutorial for how to set up and perform both of these auto pilot functions. I am not asking for someone to post that here...just a link to the info. No offense intended but if it's video, preferably someone who speaks English well.

I'm desperately hoping KSP 2 fixes the entire strutting, craft stability, death wobbles and "shudder" disconnects on docking thing (I'm experiencing)? If not, I see no reason to spend any money on it because these issues are the ones that have driven me crazy from day one of my KSP 1 career.

No, but it does answer the question. Nothing I do seems to stop this behavior (is there a KSP "persistence" award?? ). If I could save a short video, it might show what I'm seeing better...but I don't know how to do that. My options now are limited...starting months of work over with no parts mods...I don't really think they are the issue because the station will have one section come apart at a stock part, sometimes...but I'm left with nothing else...short of putting a .45 through my monitor . I'm desperately hoping KSP 2 fixes the entire strutting, craft stability, death wobbles and "shudder" disconnects on docking thing (I'm experiencing)? If not, I see no reason to spend any money on it because these issues are the ones that have driven me crazy from day one of my KSP career. Someone mentioned trying 1.8.1 because it's "very stable". Is 1.7.3 not "stable"? I haven't heard anything to that effect?

One more question...can the "root" part of a space station (or any craft, for that matter) be changed in flight?

Got it. Doesn't exactly work the way I'd prefer...it shows ALL visualizations for every part of the craft, rather than just the ones for the selected part. But it's better than nothing. I'm hoping being able to manipulate auto-struts in flight will stop my station from coming apart when docking new parts to it. It's all very strange...not the increasing wobbles where everything flies apart...just a small "shudder" when docking a new set of tanks and then one, already connected section, will just "disconnect" and drift off.

When building a ship in the VAB and setting up auto-strut on the various parts, I get a visual representation of the "connections" the various auto-strut techniques will result in, in the form of orange lines. Once the ship is in flight, however, these visualization lines do not show when adjusting auto-strutting. Is there a way to make these visual "connections" show when changing auto-struts in flight?

Nope, never mind...I lied again. All the suppositions I posted earlier are BS. The station continues to come apart whenever it wants to...no "smoking gun". It just...does it...when it wants to. It doesn't seem to matter at what point I'm into docking...it just comes apart whenever it wants to. I will now kill 4 months of work, delete a bunch of mods...and try again. I think from this point on, Parts Mods are "no Buenos". KIS, KAS and all the other parts mods can KMA. I will never again spend months trying to accomplish something that should have been done in days. Niner out.

OK...I lied...let's keep this thread going because I have more..."observations". The following are helping me build my station: 1. Port Docking Acquire Force: I have found that setting this low (25%), on the arriving port has helped. 2. SAS and RCS: All "off" both on the station and the arriving ship, just before docking. 3. As my station gains "mass" (by successfully adding tank sets), all the issues at 2K meters, 200m, port targeting and port docking...all seem to go away? Maybe someone more knowledgeable can speak to this but, it seems that the "lighter" my station is (the less actual mass it has), the more susceptible it is to weirdness when crossing the 2km, 200m, targeting and docking thresholds? Not sure if that makes any sense...but it is working that way in practice. I am 2 tanks short of having one entire side "built" . I will, hopefully, be able to post a screenie of the entire thing, ready for planetary exploration support, in the next week or so.

And...unsuccessfully docked the next set.... This time, it separated an already attached tank set from the tank set's docking port (not the station's port) at the 200 meter mark. The octo-girders are 1.7.3 KSP compatible. I will retry the docking and look for any errors. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to this, whatsoever...at 2,000 meters, at 200 meters, at targeting, at docking, at this joint, or, at that joint. I can repeat the last approach and it doesn't happen at 200 meters...but comes apart on targeting or docking. I just repeated the last docking attempt and...no problem at 200 meters??? Let us see if it does it on targeting or docking. I will make sure to look at the errors. Is there a way to see these errors in a simpler text type file? And, voila! The exact same docking, performed a 3rd time from a save...and no issues. I understand that you want me to look for a "smoking gun"...I don't think there is one...not mods, not auto-struts, not SAS or RCS...I no longer believe there is any one thing wrong...other than my install of KSP 1.7.3. So, let us end this thread. I definitely want to say "thank you!" to all who have replied and tried to help. I will, perhaps, try another, newer version...if my required mods are available...or I may just go shoot people on my XBox for a bit (it ALWAYS works...I like things that always work).

Successfully docked the same set of tanks, as above, after making sure the station's SAS was also off. I'm certainly not claiming any kind of victory here...but it is a start. I'm going to keep adding tanks to the station to see how it goes. I would like to have a working station before upgrading to a more recent version of KSP. Honestly, there are times I wish KSP would just give the updates a rest...and give us and the modders time to get caught up? I always seem to be a version or 2 behind, waiting for the mods I use to catch up .

@HvP "Very frustrated" might be mild? . Although I agree with your belief that it might be time to ditch 1.7.3, I have one more screenshot which I would like to present. This is my latest attempt...the stock Senior docking port has force reduced to 40%, I have managed to approach to within 200 meters and target the station's docking port I wish to dock to without it coming apart. As I come within 20 meters of the target port, I turn off RCS and SAS on the arriving ship (note that SAS remains "on" on the station). As I dock, I get a small, quick "shudder" (nothing like the increasing "wobbles") and one part separates. It might be important to note that the one part is an octo-girder with internal fuel/LoX tanks (which I believe is "stock"?). What is interesting is that this girder was attached to the girder it separated from in the VAB...not in orbit. Reviewing older screenshots, this appears to be where the separations always occur? I am going to try this one more time, making sure the station's SAS is off before docking.

I am SOOO over my space stations coming apart, for no good reason. No, please don't tell me your thoughts...I have many posts, over the last 3 years, on the subject, and many attempts at building them...most successful...and none successful in 1.7.3. Once parts are "joined"...I'm DONE! They are welded, they are forever joined...there will be NO weird parts flying off for no reason...and I ain't talking about the "increasing wobbles". If KSP 2.0 doesn't correct these stupid issues with constructed parts coming apart when targeting, when coming into 2K meter range, when coming into 200 m range or when actually docking...I'll save my hard earned money. Fix it...or forget it.

I rebuilt the station without the "weldable" Konstruction ports. Nothing has changed...I can dock one set of tanks, one time, then I come within 200 m. of the station with another set...and the station comes apart (without changing my target to a port!!!!!!). I load a save and I can get within 200 m, no problem, I can target the port I want, no problem...but when I dock...the station comes apart. Obviously the Mod is not the problem. This is totally ridiculous. I don't know what's wrong with KSP 1.7.3 In my experience, auto-struts are the ONLY way to keep a space station together. Again...I'm not having "wobble" issues...I solved those several years ago. I'm having large parts of my station just...disconnecting and floating off. No "wobble", nothing to indicate it's coming...it just...happens. It happens when I get within 200 m, then it doesn't. Then it happens when I target a (stock) port...then it doesn't. It happens when my station is within 2k meters...then it doesn't. It happens when I dock...then it doesn't. There is no "smoking gun"...I have eliminated all the ones suggested, above. Let me perfectly honest...I'm about over the entire thing, you all realize how much time and effort we spend in our KSP "adventures"...I just don't know if I can continue to have my efforts thwarted for some "unknown" issue? I may consider going back to a previous version of KSP...that actually worked...but, at this time...I am NOT a happy camper.

@AHHans I usually keep my station's reaction wheels at a very low torque setting...10%. I always disable the reaction wheels and RCS on a docking ship right before the docking occurs. This seems to allow the station to maintain it's orientation with SAS without any undue wobbles caused by the docking ship. This has worked well with the "death wobbles" and I haven't suffered from them in awhile. If I'm understanding you correctly, the best control point, for a station such as mine, would be the central hub? Would the central hub also be the best "root part"...with everything else grandfather auto-strutted to it? I've had issues with the entire auto-strutting and root part...but I now believe that the weldable ports are probably the largest cause of all these issues. If I haven't already mentioned, I am rebuilding the exact same station with the only difference being stock senior ports as opposed to the weldable ones. Hopefully this will verify, once and for all, that these weldable ports have..."issues"...at least in my game. @swjr-swis I have never tried...or even knew...this type of construction could be done! Do you find an advantage to making the station this way? Obviously, a lot of fuel/lOX storage...but how stable and solid do you find these "melded" parts to be?

Perfect, exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!

This might belong somewhere else but...is there a post or information on what, exactly, the various "general" and "graphics" settings actually do? I understand some of them but some leave me bewildered. Things like "max physics delta time", "terrain scatters", "reflection refresh mode", "conic patch draw mode", "V sync", "Pixel light count" and "Shadow cascades". I have no real idea what these settings actually do and what changing them will look like in game. I'm not asking you to post an entire explanation here, of course...just wondering if there is info on these somewhere that you can link me to.

<AHHans> You also mentioned the location of the reaction wheels...do you find that having them close to a central point is better than having them hanging way out at the ends?

I don't see the option to "target" a port until 200 m. I'll try again with the arriving ship much closer than 200 and see what happens. @swjr-swisI'm curious about your version of the station. What parts are those senior ports attached to? It looks like you melded a smaller tank into the orange ones forming the "arms"? And the central "hub"...apparently I'm missing something basic about ship construction as I've never seen anything like that. Also, how did you get the navball moved over to the left, like that? That's handy!

I went back to "default" settings, and only changed resolution, full screen...things like that...and left the ones you mentioned as found. I thought I had it because flying the station I had solid green numerals. Flying the approaching ship, however, resulted in the yellow flashes as I came close to 2k meters from the station and the same result when I targeted one of the weldable ports...station came apart in large chunks. It doesn't wobble or shake...pieces just separate and drift off. I guess I'll start over without the modded ports...and hope someone comes up with weldable ports that actually work without causing issues. I don't see how you can build a very large refueling station with standard ports as attachment points for the various arms and tanks? In my experience the station becomes "wobbly" as heck, and eventually shakes itself apart because of the "loose" connections afforded by a standard docking port? S-I-G-H

I'll try some settings first. Which settings, in the screenshots higher up, would you recommend I start with?

Well...that didn't work. It almost seems like the unbreakable joints cheat made matters worse? More large chunks of the station came off as soon as I targeted one of it's docking ports. So, I will now try to cheat a station into orbit, without the Konstruction mod weldable ports, and see if that's the issue. If it is then my career is basically over. I don't see how else to build a large refueling station that will hold together without these ports? This time, the disconnects happened at welded ports as well as attachments made in the VAB.

>HvP, I am going to try the unbreakable joints cheat...for now...that seems like an easy one. If the problem continues I think I will follow your suggestion of cheating a large station, without the weldable parts, into orbit and try a docking. If that doesn't solve it, I'll try reducing my graphics settings as a last resort. I'll hate it if that's the answer but this system is getting on in years. On a positive note, with Microsoft getting back into the flight simulator business, I see a new high powered gaming machine in my future .

"It's possible to pause the game (ESC) and then bring up the cheat menu at the same time (ALT+F12) even before the scene finishes loading in. This should give you time to turn on the check box for "Unbreakable Joints" which might give you time to test the autostrut hypothesis." I do not see this option anywhere after Alt+F12? Never mind...found it.

Yes, the station holds together just fine, no "death wobbles" at all, until I set one of the ports as a target. Note that, as I approach the station, the station is set as target (the root part, a cupola in this case). Everything is fine until I try and change the target to one of the empty docking ports...then several large parts just "disconnect"...no wobbles. The parts disconnect at joints created in the VAB, never at joints using the "weldable" docking ports. I am going to try the "Unbreakable Joints" thing now. Here's a screen of the station, in it's present form: