R-T-B

Curse is named accurately, eh? I used to say they were the curse of curse, which is twice as bad as a normal curse. I remember when they almost killed bukkit with explosive unexpected advertising, only to have Mojang finish the job later. No friends there. I just noticed a lot of links to Curse. *shrugs.* Glad you hate them too.

Oh my god, I want to hug you so much right now. You are like, the only person all this time who has been willing to even say that, and I have asked a lot of people. Thank you! In my other forums, I am known as "The Priest of the Evil Frog God" (hence the avatar). Yes, he will consume all. Except you. Because I like your post. You will simply be a good servant for the egg hatchery. Yes, at this point, I am trying to get this thread closed. I reported it hours ago. I just want to make sure my report is noticed, but blessing you with frog slime is ok, right?

Yeah, I read some more and you are right. The GNU foundation has some helpful docs on this. It's the distribution that's messy. And we have several people I have pointed out distributing with incompatible licensed products included in binary form. There is no question if that is a violation, it simply is. Not that I care, the GPLv3 is the silliest license known to man as far as I'm concerned (what was wrong with v2?). [snip]

I had plans for myself, yes. The plans include keeping the original fork exactly how it is, which he isn't doing. He plans a complete rewrite and I like it just the way it is, albeit compatible with latest release. That's really not a new feature, nor will it be released. Again, please quit this nonsense. Maybe reread where that quote came from: I haven't worked in over a year dude, but cool story. EDIT: I think I misunderstood that one. Sorry, being on the defensive so much has me reading things and maybe even ill-intent that isn't there. I think you just misunderstood me. Can we try to start from scratch? Pretty please? I mean I could be disingenuous and start over with a new account (well, really I'd never do that), but really why? Why can't we just get past this. I was a technical writer, not a comedian. Plus being high-functioning autistic (don't get weird, it isn't THAT bad) I can safely say I have no idea where your parody starts or ends, apologies. I'm basically tone deaf online yes. Don't claim otherwise. EDIT: Now that I think about it, It is probable that Autism (high functioning yes, but still) does factor into this a bit. I mod for the end users. I don't give two cares about my pride. I do care about people's feelings, and if told I am hurting them I will stop (and I did). But it's inherently alien to me to mod for pride. I do it to be helpful. I do generally get along with people though, and it's genuinely upsetting to me that some users are being so darn hostile towards me for something that a.) was just trying to help and b.) has been apologized for for nearly 2 days now.

I really wish my release codenames were here for reference. I think "upside down computer wrecking devil" for one labeled version .999 was my favorite. If anyone downloaded that they got what was said on the tin. All of them compiled mind, and loaded to main menu. Beyond that they probably killed kerbals, and I knew that very much so and did not hide it. [snip]

[snip] I expressly did not guarantee my mods and warned my users. Please, though I'm trying to move past that. You really all should be over that by now.

[snip] You probably want to relicense your work under something other than GPLv3 btw, you include module manager which is CC-SA licensed and... I have no idea if that's allowed or not. Anyone a lawyer? If you're including a copy of the GPLv3 AND the CC-SA you MIGHT be ok. https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/ShareAlike_compatibility:_GPLv3 Still, I wouldn't mess with it. I'd change it just to be safe. Of course, I'm betting that means you certainly won't. Again, just showing where the leaks are. [snip]

No, I edited above to clarify because I figured it was ripe for misunderstanding. Certain mods. Essential mods. Kopernicus in particular. How many things depend on that? If the source vanished what would it do? It wouldn't be pretty, and frankly, when I realized this I quit worrying about my horrible rep (is that all we do this for? I'm confused) and moved on to push an issue that actually matters [snip]

A completely separate, documented legal issue, yes. And not you. Very specific mods in this community. I pray you did not license yourself away GPLv3. That'd be... unfortunate. [snip] For the record, I have considered the idea that you may be right regarding my conduct. So much so I have asked my fellow forumites of another, equally large dev-oriented forum to weigh in (and I have enemies there too, so it's hardly biased). It shouldn't get ugly as I've only provided screenshots with names edited out, not a direct link, so they don't even know where this is really (I know, google, but I asked them not to), but I really do take your critiscisms seriously and am seeking outside perspective. I just can't see being this angry about it, personally. It's confusing to me. [snip]

Where do you think i came from? Yeah, I had a fix. Sorry, can't share right immediately. I'll make a pull request later, but I won't share the dll. Too many toes here, and I have big feet. Watch the official a few days.

I apologize for swearing. I am old, tired, and frankly, this is starting to make me all think less of you. I hate that. I don't think it's your fault either. We are just getting off completely on the wrong foot. So I'm going to leave now. I sincerely hope you do not ignore what I have pointed out. Happy trails, spacetrips, or whatever you want. I love you all.

It seems I own you an apology. I was under the impression curse owned bukkit at that point in time. The point is who really lost was the users. And it was completely avoidable. I know, and that's what they are doing.

Sorry, I'm not an ass and have literally said I'm not going to do that. Just read history dude. Don't shoot the messenger for pointing out you have an issue (especially when your own mods point it out, too). Your well is leaking, don't accuse me of stealing water for pointing it out. I'm really done here. If I wanted to be mean to you guys, I could cause so much trouble. But I'm not mean. Some day, you'll figure that out. I may be liquided off, and that's probably because rather than playing kerbal, I've been responding to attacks on my person all day. Please. Just. Stop.

Good job not reading any of the above. First off, no, I REALLY DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN so I won't be "going for it." This is not a joke, however, and I won't be happy when it ends bad. As for your lack of reading: Mojang didn't get served, Bukkit did. GPLv3 code must link with GPLv3 code. It cannot and shall not link to anything else but a (x)GPLv3 license Guess what Kopernicus isn't doing? That's a cool idea! Oh wait... the whole point was to generate bugs. Users aren't going to compile and test the master branch, now are they? You can follow my thought process if you actually try.

If you ask me, the unfortuante thing I forsee happening if TT has an "incident" and has to deal with modding DMCAs, is they will completely kill the mod API in KS2. That's fearmongering of course. But it's not entirely impossible either. If I was in their shoes and "mods" caused me to have to settle legally in any form, I'd kill them immediately. They probably don't even really know what mods are, they just want to know why they exist and are causing them trouble. Yeah, I thought of PMng all the noncompliant authors to you know, actually be helpful. But that sounds like being a lawyer and right now, I just am tired. Maybe tomorrow.

Yeah, I wonder why. I know it probably matters little to you, but I worked as a member of the press for a long time. I can't lie, really. I have a reflex against it. I was taught journalism ethics at a young age, back when they mattered. I can withhold the truth, but that's about it. Otherwise my brain makes me very very upset. Yeah, the rename broke everything because scatterer references it's own name in shader names. It was going fricking awful and was outright comical. You weren't on the original fork though, I removed that because people complained that I used the same name. That one worked fine other than sun flares and water shaders, and some users here still have a build of it. Don't make me get some to prove my point, because I actually can. Look, I'll be frank, provide proof or quit telling tall tales. You and I both know that's a lie and it makes it rather pointless as this isn't a popularity contest. I didn't think you are lying (rather, assumed confused) but now that you are defending it, unfortunately I know you are. I have only one question: Why? What does it gain you? What does it gain anyone? Oh, and I lied, second question. What feature was I adding? I want to know. It'll be hard to actually do it if I don't know! It was a pet frog for all the kerbals, wasn't it? Darn I am so transparent. You think the whole of the linux community exists in the usenet bubble or something? I've never even been on usenet. So maybe I missed some rage of of the nerds, who knows. I just know i helped people and no one tried to murder my rep like this. Rather, I got a lot of thanks from users of razer mice, in particular.

The mods can see edit history. They know and I hope one can confirm that my whole thread was a giant statement about how it solely existed to support scatterer, was to act as a bleeding edge release for bugtesting, and would never be fully stable. So... what again? Funny, I made a template for Planetshine (and others) that credited "author," original author (if applicable) and links to threads of all the mods history, which i had to research. What again? Oh, by the way, no fork forthcoming on planetshine? I had beaten him by literal hours. Where's my defenders? Oh right, I don't get any because I'm new here and have a "history." I'm not a citation or something? Would you prefer me do a DMCA takedown of Kopernicus? Too bad I'm not as evil as people think. My point is you are one spiteful forum ban away from bye bye lotsa content. Even your forum staff warn people away from the GPLv3, you may want to read: Kopernicus is LGPLv3 and includes as well as links against a MIT library (ModularFlightIntegrator). It's a problem. Also, reading material: http://rdwl.xyz/blog/the-bukkit-implosion/ tl;dr If someone gets mad, they can make your code go away and it won't come back. It doesn't even cost more than a few hundred dollars. Yes, it applies to code you link against to, making it even worse (they are wrong on that and there is fairly recent legal precedent). Dude, I'm sorry. If you someday acknowledge that, you'll literally make me smile. In the meantime that's irrelevant though because this turned over real issues you need to deal with. That's way more important than my or your feelings.

Nope. Quote if you can prove otherwise. I don't delete. Can we quit the outright fabrications? My whole goal was to act as a bleeding edge at recompile points so I could forward bugs, at his whim. You obviously did not read the release notes, did you? I wish I still had them. The last release was called IIRC "OMG MAKE IT STOP" edition with a note it could and would "wipe out your universe" Sunflares duplicated and "burned the planet." The ocean was transluscent. And that was on the first build before the rename. All that was known. It was warned. But atmospheric scattering worked. It was never advertised as ready. Heck, after the rename, it didn't even work in the basic sense. I laugh at all these "logs" people are reporting from my work (not plural because most were taken down in hours) because the logger was broken and the tool wouldn't even load. It seems I've become a boogeyman of sorts for anything that goes wrong with those utilities, even though many of them had exactly 0 downloads. You have inadvertently, put me on the end of the stick you were claiming you wanted to avoid, and caused me much strife in defending my good name here. I do not appreciate this, and would ask it stop. I already requested this threads closure. You are however, parroting blatant lies. I doubt intentionally, but still. I appreciate what your trying to say, don't get me wrong. I did this wrong for this communities culture and that is entirely something I am willing to admit, and have repeatedly apologized for. But don't deny your licensing situation is wonky. It's wonky beyond words. Frankly, I can respect what you have going on... but it's unique to here. Acting like I "should've known" is denying the problem. You NEED to make this more clear, somehow. And I'm not the first, am I? Do you think I'll be the last? In conclusion, I come from a land where I primarily port old linux things. No one does there takes the time to "ping", so perhaps my background tainted me. But I'm certain this is not a... universal attitude, to say the least. Pinging him? Fine, tell me and I'll do it. But where I come from, it's the infromation age, the license tells you what you need and unless told otherwise, no one pings anyone. Make it clear if that's what the unwritten rule is, because unwritten rulse? By virtue of being unwritten, they never work. People are acting like I came here to steal their thunder. I'd argue a good OSS dev doesn't have any to steal, but... maybe that's just me. Regardless, I didn't. I came here because I love KSP, and wanted to help. That's what's most upsetting to me, is that I have now made some of the people of whome I actually adore and admire absolutely think I'm some kind of code-stealing monster, and it's all because no document existed telling me "this is how things are done." This is all you have. How on earth does that work? So yeah, my day sucks.

*sighs* That's pretty aparrent, isn't it? I know that now. You just sort of made my point without knowing it. The point is we now have three quality rendering engines and that is a good thing. They all feed each other pull requests. They all have different names. Skedaddle wasn't different enough from scatterer? Or what? Your real issue (that your community isn't expressing it's actual will in licensing, and in some cases, is using actually illegal licenses for the context) isn't one I have an answer to, so I'm going to drop this. It's falling on deaf ears anyhow. It's easy to play the "hey there's a problem card" but if no one has an answer what good does it do? It's giving me a headache anyways. It's not about being stopped. My rebuilds had testers and users that were happy to help when I abruptly closed up shop. You have no idea the amount of flack I've got and continue to get for the audacity of even TRYING what I did. In my other thread, I've been told my apology isn't even sincere because I was still there saying the licensing issue should be talked about to avoid further confusion. I'm not going to name names or post links (sure you can find it anyways), but that's... bonkers.

I'm responding to criticisms levied at me, actually(as well as offering source help to anyone), but have fun with the idea that I just came here to eat your food, and it was obvious and will never happen again. Nom nom. EDIT: As this has basically regressed into this: I am requesting this threads closure. I apologize for all I did and didn't do.

No, I said explicitly: Which part of this sounds like I don't think I did anything wrong? It sounds more to me like you are unwilling to let this go. I made a mistake that's on me. What's frustrating is you act like it's not a mistake anyone could've made, and that you apparently don't think anyone will make it again. Good luck with that. If you are still angry, that's a personal issue I can't help you with beyond advising you to do what I am going to do now: Play Kerbal. Always feels right. PM me any time. I've already told several people who asked me questions the same. No credit needed, I don't care. You can ask around.

And with that being said, I don't have an easy answer beyond "never use GPL-v3 for a mod to a closed source game unless you want to be sorry later." (Really guys, v2 is fine). I suppose it's always easier to see the problems than to come up with the answers, right? I guess you could actually put in writing what you think about forks. That'd be helpful. It doesn't even have to be legally enforcable. Most people (myself included) will read it and respect your wishes regardless. Most of us new modders are here because we love the game, not because we want to eat your food.

I really don't know the answer to this. Could they possibly be artifacts?

No, I'd need to want him to be gone, first. Do you think I forked it because I DIDN'T want that mod? As someone setting up a 1.7 install so I can use his mod again, that's not going to happen. And yes, my builds had bugs. Of course they did. That was the point. He should be getting a letter, someday, explaining that. And asking his permission to continue builds I had been making in his (yes, limited) absence. Ironic as his answer no longer matters. I deleted my local and remote source trees. I have no desire to violate anyones standards, whether or not they make sense. My github? Oh, it's awesome, It's empty and since my other repos are private, it will remain that way (and that's because they are mine, and I make my intent known): https://github.com/R-T-B?tab=repositories You imply I don't have respect for you guys. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Am I am incredibly appalled that you've let your licensing situation get to here? Yes! But that does not mean I have any ill will towards you or respect you any less. Kopernicus blew my mind, in particular. The sheer coding skill here is without bounds and I have no doubts you can do whatever you put your mind to... But this will happen again, and you know it. Until you fix it. Licenses are supposed to be wills of intent for the author. That's their legal purpose, and function. I read every one of them (minus one in an incorrect path on github, which you'll recall), noting even where they weren't enforcable (or literal takedown risks) and still trying to obey them. That's my respect. I'm sorry it was not enough, and FWIW, I will never do this again. I've done everything in my power to course correct and yet for some reason, here we are, still debating whether or not there is some kind of issue here on my end, or yours. I'd say this thread is a testament to your licensing issues, frankly. But yes, I made a mistake too. I didn't ask your norms. Sorry for that. If you want to interpret that as a lack of respect, fine. Interpret me having this very painful conversation to explain myself to you as a testament to it, then. Very few people would've put up with this and most would have just went back to playing the game by now.

I did with scatterer. Author has been gone roughly a month, unreachable. Feel free to confirm. The others were a mistake. I admitted such. But they ARE open source licensed. Heck, some of them are GPL-v3, which isn't even LEGAL to license as a mod against a binary game (it'd have to adopt the GPLv3 as well, because that's what GPVv3 does, it's the "viral license"). That means I could DMCA them if I wanted to be a complete ass (It happened to Bukkit in minecraft land, for those who say "no way!"). Even if you win in court, DMCA'd code tends to be deleted from servers and gone for good. Again, this exact thing happened to Bukkit. They were on Curse, which seems big here, too. DMCA deletions tend to be processed in under 24 hours, as well. You guys really need to think about what you do with licenses more. It's bad. I'm not saying this to hurt you. I'm saying this because it's very risky stuff you are doing and someone is going to get mad and wreck your universe. If you add that you had a paper in front of you saying "willing to share food" it might be more comparable. The most I did was consume your food rudely by releasing a binary before it was ready, I think. I'll own up to that and it's why all forks but one were killed within hours (that one was renamed as well, and is dead now too). Again, even this "you ask first" is a new concept to me and I've been around. It certainly isn't expected everywhere. In GNUland, the idea that the license does not express the authors wishes would be grounds for a bug report. But I admit, I walked in and didn't learn the customs before my release. That's on me.