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king of nowhere

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Posts posted by king of nowhere

  1. On 7/12/2024 at 8:16 PM, BarryAstroo said:

    I made a colony with starships on duna but when i tried to refuel using surface harvesters and converters i realized that the rocket uses liquid methane. Is there anything i can do to get around this?

    the fact that you have liquid methane means you have mods, and we can't help without knowing more details. why can'ìt you make liquid methane? what kind of stuff has your ship? too many unknowables

  2. 8 hours ago, jebalicious said:

    No, time warp does not fix it. Also, I'm looking for a fix haha, not a still broken mod....surely its in one of the codes somewhere.

    i can't help you with that, i don't know coding.

    all i can say is that i had the same problem and i could still make it work

    you said time warp does not fix, but how long did you time warped? just entering time warp didn't fix for me either; it generally went in periods, a few in-game days with the bug, then a few in-game days when the drills would work normally. but it may well be possible your issue is different, though similar, to mine.

  3. 35 minutes ago, jebalicious said:

    My radial drill doesnt detect any ground contact when i have installed the KSP Interstellar mod coupled with Kerbalism.



    it's a bug that happens sometimes with kerbalism. all my long term missions with kerbalism suffer from it. the good news, though, is that it's temporary. time warp, and after a while the drill will detect ground contact again. and then it will stop detecting ground contact, and then find it again... all in all, mining resources is slower than it should be, but it works.

  4. Part 2: Probing the way forward

    I don't have enough deltaV to land a crew on Mun, and I don't have enough life support to send a crew on Minmus. This chapter involves lots of probes.


    I got a relay network, and permanent science stations on Mun and Minmus

    2.1) If you believe, they put a probe on the Mun


    First things first, now that I have unlocked all science experiments available in caveman, I finish mining the KSC for every bit of science. I even take materials and goo twice, for an extra kick.


    The roller used to farm the KSC. Those science Jr are exposed and fragile, but I already tried in my previous caveman, there's no way to protect them and keep the roller functional

    I immediately get enough science to tech stability, which gives me the radial decoupler. Then I realize I didn't really need radial decouplers, but I'm no longer starved for science, I can land probes on Mun and return, so it's not an issue.

    I already have a perfectly good plan for a Mun lander with my current tech, thanks to my previous run. I only need to adapt it. Minmus would be easier to land on, if I can manage an intercept. But Minmus is far, I'll go there only after I get solar power and can stop worrying about mission duration.

    So, my previous Mun lander was this:


    The Mun lander probe I used in my previous caveman career

    The key feature of that probe is the crew pod; it doesn't have a crew, but it's the only part that provides reaction wheels, necessary to pilot the rocket with the static Reliant engine; designs based on the Swivel and boosters failed to make it because of boosters requiring too many parts and having too little efficiency. Once the first stage expires, the crew pod is jettisoned - at this point it's not worth its weight - and the probe keeps going without any attitude control, using the gimbaling of the terrier engine to point itself the right way. Which is actually more efficient than it looks like; you activate the engine at a minimum, point yourself the right direction, then burn, you only lose a few m/s. Though it's very hard to make precise maneuvers like that, because every time you must turn around the rocket you still end up burning a bit in an uncontrolled direction; another reason to not try a Minmus mission, as I'd need to set apoapsis carefully.

    That probe carried a battery, and it was enough for the mission. Here, it's not. Whether an artifact of kerbalism or a bug induced by some of the dozen mods I have (I know some of those are required for kerbalism to work, and some others are required for those prerequisites to work, and some others are useless leftovers that may be messing up the game, but I don't dare trying to sort it out), it turns out I can't hybernate probes. The core uses 1.8 electricity per minute, a full mission will require 2000 electricity, roughly.

    But as I said in the previous chapter, another great part unlocked with basic science is hydrogen fuel cells.


    The new cargo bay, with the fuel cell. The small tank to the left of the goo is the hydrogen tank, and the round thing between the parachute and the Stayputnik is the oxygen tank. Parachute is off-center for balance

    Alas, it still requires three parts, and I was using the maximum available. Where can I save three parts? I can't reduce the fuel tanks, or the docking ports. I could leave behind some science instruments, technically I could just bring back one experiment at a time, but it would be supremely annoying. I'm already giving up on the materials bay - and not even because of mass or part issues, but because it would push the rocket above the 20 m height limit - and I don't have any way to keep the same parts while reducing height without completely destroying aerodynamics. I can skip the battery, but it's only one.

    Ultimately, the only way I can keep my science instruments is by removing the landing legs. Here's the three parts I needed to remove, and it also improves the aerodynamic profile. I wouldn't have though to try this if I hadn't an accident in the old caveman, when a lander landed on the side, and it still managed to take off despite laying horizontally.

    I figured, if I remove a fuel tank from the probe, and put it among the drop tanks instead, the probe will be shorter, easier to turn around, and more capable of taking off. This simple change also improved maneuverability a lot during descent, I'm glad I did it.


    The Mun probe (I should give it an actual name, now that I think of it) ascending with its first stage. It's actually very aerodynamic, despite the probe core in the middle

    Another concern introduced by kerbalism is engine ignition limitations. But a high quality Terrier engine has 42 available ignitions, and over 20 minutes of burn time. More than enough for this mission.


    The probe reaches orbit... and loses connection. I forgot how annoying those things were to fly

    There is actually a big gap in the deep space network (maybe I should call it shallow space network, since it's only level 1?), after a probe leaves sight of the KSC it will take a long time to find the next station. No, I didn't set up any relay network; I don't want to send up a bunch of probes that will run out of electricity and will need to be changed. I'll just pull through until I unlock solar panels - which, incidentally, will also unlock a probe core with reaction wheels and SAS. In this case, aiming for a higher apoapsis and high speed on leaving atmosphere (over 2000 m/s, with apoapsis above 100 km) is enough to reestablish connection to the probe in time for circularization, and it's not too inefficient.

    At least, not compared to maneuvering blindly with a probe without attitude control. An efficient Mun landing can be done with 2600 m/s, this probe has 3500 for good measure.


    Perfect Mun encounter

    Those Mun intercepts are quite easy: wait for Mun to appear over the horizon, then burn prograde aiming for 11.6 Mm apoapsis. Extremely reliable; not only I hit Mun every time, most of the times I'm spot-on hitting farside crater.

    True, in many cases it would be preferable to aim for an orbital insertion, instead of a straight-on collision that will force me to spend fuel. But I haven't found a recipe for that, I'll stick with what works. In this case, as I'm aiming to land, I don't need to enter orbit. I can just keep falling until it's time to brake.


    At 50 km I start turning the probe around to point retrograde. At 30 km I have a preliminary slowdown that uses up the rest of the drop tanks, leaving the probe more agile for the final descent

    You know what, I'm sick of calling this thing "probe". I'm talking too much about it, it needs a proper name. I traditionally call small landers as simple objects, this thing is a stick with a ball on it, what does it look like... a microphone. That's it, from now on this lander will be called Microphone.


    At 10 km Microphone is further slowed down to 200 m/s, at 2 km it's slowed at 100 m/s. It's less efficient than a straight suicide burn, but safer

    I also leave the engine at a minimum all the time. It keeps attitude control, and it also avoids the 0.2% chance of malfunction every time I ignite the engine. It's still mighty annoying to fly without SAS. But it is pretty reliable. I never lost a Microphone on descent. Well, except one that lost signal because I was hoping the easternmost fringe of farside crater would still be visible from Kerbin. I also lost two Microphones to engine malfunctions. But none was lost to the lack of reaction wheels. By the way, you can see those few kilograms of hydrogen for the fuel cell will last 22 days; that fuel cell is great.


    In the end, Microphone gently lays on the ground


    In this case, it landed on the rim of a crater, it started falling down, and it eventually exploded. But the descent went perfectly

    A problem of coming down directly from a collision course with Mun is that I have very little control over where I land. Still, after that unfortunate accident I learned to control my landing site a bit better.


    In the end, Microphone gently lays on the ground. Again.


    To leave, Microphone ignites the engine and pulls up with all its might...


    And explodes! Ooops!      [The light is different because it's a screenshot from another failed liftoff. It's hard to screenshot the exact time of the explosion, when you're busy trying to avoid the explosion]

    Of course I didn't try such a reckless liftoff strategy without testing it. I tested it exactly once, and it worked. But clearly it's not a guarantee.



    This Microphone made it. I haven't been able to figure out a pattern - not that I tried too hard to keep track

    I performed 9 successful landings with those probes, and four times they were successful. Five explosions. Adding the test as another success, it gives a perfect 50% of succeeding.

    Still, I was expecting something like that may happen, and prepared somewhat. See the battery? The one that's not really needed for the probe? I could remove it easily, but I needed to free up 3 parts for the fuel cell, the battery was only 1. So I removed the landing legs, all three of them because clearly having a single landing leg is stupid, so I could afford to keep the battery after all. And now the battery is my backup. The battery allows to transmit data to Kerbin. I send the temperature and pressure reading before leaving, so I recover some science even if the liftoff goes wrong. If the probe core survives long enough, I can even transmit goo observation. No, I can't activate partial transmission, I don't know if it's cause by some mods or by lack of some key tech.

    After takeoff, getting back to Kerbin is only a matter of deltaV. I usually have 400 m/s left or so.


    Microphone during descent

    Microphone is very stable during descent. The open cargo bay and probe core create drag at the bottom, which keeps the probe pointed retrograde. This protects the sensitive Stayputnik from the heat. I never lost one during reentry, despite the lack of control.

    By this time, getting money has become more comfortable. Survey contracts for Mun pay over 20000, and all they require me to do is to put a Microphone in polar orbit and take the required experiments as it passes over the right locations before landing.

    2.2) Jeb review-bombed this flying hotel


    While you progress the game, you are proposed some exploration contracts that push you to do things you haven't tried yet. Orbit Mun. Now land on Mun. Now make a Minmus flyby. Make a rendez-vous.

    Kerbalism adds at least another instance: leave a kerbal in orbit for 30 days. The contract pays 2 full science points, and while I'm not starved for science anymore, I took it. If nothing else, 30 days can be a duration of a Minmus mission, if I miss the initial intercept, so this will be a useful trial for a future manned mission there.

    I really should have waited solar panels, in retrospect.


    I forced Jeb to spend 30 days locked up in this thing. If I did that to convicted murderers, it would be considered excessive phsycological violence

    It's not very visible, but there are 11 parts, between oxygen and hydrogen containers, only to ensure electricity for 30 days. This leaves few parts for comfort. I had to tone down the rocket due to the part limit. I wanted to send up two Onion modules, because they have more space (2.3 m3 against 0.8 for the Mk1), and they are pressurized, increasing comfort. But mass, parts and drag limitation conspired against that. I crashed a few such modules around, before accepting I have to only use one Onion (don't worry, Jeb is safe as long as I have a decoupler and a parachute). But adding even a single Mk1 makes the whole ship unpressurized - indeed, I had huge stress issues during my whole DREAM BIG mission because I had one single Mk1 pod in a ludicrously large ship, and didn't knew about that. This time I disabled habitat from the Mk1 pod, hoping it would leave Jeb in the pressurized environment. No such luck. Even the antenna to provide communication was missing signal half the time, due to lacking a communication network. So, you can see the verdict. Living space: cramped. Comfort: none.


    It was such a crappy environment, just 10 days into the mission Jeb hit 100% stress and broke something

    And Jeb is one of the most stress-resistant kerbals out there. Good thing nothing important was broken: just the pod scientific instruments - which are disabled anyway, since I'm using stock science.

    In the end, Jeb made it to the end of those 30 days, but I clearly can't send a crew to Minmus like that. So I learned this important lesson: I need the hitchhicker container before attempting manned landings on Minmus. And of course, docking ports, because I can't send one of those on Minmus without a modular design. But I can collect enough science with probes to get there comfortably.

    2.3) Networking!


    After many Mun landings, I finally have enough science to unlock electrics!

    Now I have the OKTO probe, which - while being a nerfed version of the similar HECS - does include basic SAS and reaction wheels. I could live without, but this makes things a lot easier. And I have solar panels, although the most basic kind.

    Now I can start building a relay network. I don't even have to think much about it, because once you get solar panels, the game gives contracts for satellites. Which is another, final reason I wanted to wait this point to build a relay network: why spend money to launch satellites when you can get paid for it?


    The basic sat core module

    The core basic sat has enough deltaV to reach any orbit, it's cheap, and it's got low part count. Meaning I can add whatever science instrument I'm asked by a contract, or I can liberally add antennas. I put up to 8 antennas on some. Those with thermometers can be left in orbit to get the "science from X" contracts, the easiest way to get money. Even better, after putting them in the required orbit, I moved a couple to low polar orbits on Mun and Minmus; this way they can both satisfy the "science from X" contracts, and the survey contracts. Now that I can earn 20000 funds in a few minutes, I will no longer be tempted to shortcut the money farming with the cheat menu.

    2.4) Caveman hungry! Caveman goes to mint ice cream moon!


    I no longer have to worry about battery. I still have to worry about malfunctions, but those basic satellites will last several years. Now I must go to Minmus. I am ready, I have the contract for it, and it gives more science than Mun. I feel kinda annoyed every time I land a Microphone, because I know I will have to return later with a manned ship and a materials bay on each of those biomes. While on Minmus I hope to biome-hop thanks to the lower gravity, and be done quickly.

    So, I will use Minmus to unlock the necessary technologies to land kerbals on Mun. Landing on Minmus will come later, I will want some bigger, more comfortable ship for the longer trip.


    The Minmus explorer will fulfill the contract to flyby over Minmus, grabbing orbital science. No landing will be attempted yet

    I'll just follow the contracts, because they give extra money and science. Besides, I need to farm orbital science. I still haven't gotten to bring a materials bay to Mun orbit yet.

    Minmus being smaller and cheaper, I do include materials bay, for low and high orbit. And since they are too bulky and fragile to survive reentry, I include an experiment storage unit.


    I set an apoapsis of 48 Mm, higher than Minmus to maximize the time spent near apoapsis, but close enough that I'll still be captured by its sphere of influence

    Inclination can be fixed with a cheap plane change around the time the probe crosses the orbit of Mun. In this case, by pure coincidence I'm crossing Minmus path near the node. For every other time, here's how to handle inclination in caveman.


    First, move your view to see Minmus orbit as a line


    Then you can better gauge how your trajectory compares to that. Here's how it must become, this ensures an encounter at apoapsis


    I put apoapsis 60° ahead of Minmus, where it will arrive some 8 days later. Maybe it was too far?


    But high apoapsis means spending a lot of time near apoapsis


    So Minmus catches the probe as it's falling back toward Kerbin

    Minmus is a lot harder to intercept than Mun, but it appears I found a good strategy too. Set apoapsis roughly 60° ahead of the moon, aim for a 48 Mm apoapsis. So far I sent 5 probes to Minmus, and I got an intercept four times. The last time I was slightly late, but I could circularize in an orbit slightly lower than Minmus and catch it a few days later, at very small additional cost.


    Setting orbit to catch up with Minmus, that one time I missed the intercept

    Minmus has a 2000 km SoI, by staying around 45 km apoapsis I can ensure I'll be snatched by its gravity when passing close.

    To think the first time I tried this in the old caveman, I resorted to pointing the engine towards Minmus - purely by eye - and firing! I've learned a lot since then.

    I also have a tool that calculates orbital times, and I managed to intercept very tiny moonlets with 10 km spheres of influence in a whirligig world caveman (maybe one day I'll complete it and write a report). But it does require some significant effort on my part to measure all the times, so I'm happier if I can reliably eyeball things.

    Here, though, I'm having another problem. After getting close to Minmus, I spent fuel to reach low space, to grab science. Of course, that meant I ended up in a high Kerbin orbit, and I didn't have much fuel to start with, so I spent all my leftover...


    And barely managed to lower periapsis into the atmosphere

    Actually I wasn't very accurate, I got -47 km. 40 km would have been better, but near the end the numbers were moving very fast. And I'm now completely out of fuel. If I will cross Mun on the way down, I have no backup plan, except transmitting what science I can before the probe is lost to space.

    With too low periapsis, reentry is harsh.


    The science jr exploded early. Here it's the fuel tanks turn


    But the cargo bay and experiment storage and made of sturdier stuff, and survive to bring back their precious science cargo!

    I then sent several relays and science stations to Minmus. Now I have to land and come back, bringing science. Minmus is easier than Mun, thanks to the lower gravity, so I will attempt to also bring a science jr. It does give a lot of science. I set to use a modified version of the reliable Microphone (though now that I have swapped out the Stayputnik for an OKTO, it doesn't look like a microphone anymore), just swapping out a fuel tank for a science jr and experiment storage.


    In this first experiment, I tried to stick the experiment storage on the side. Bad aerodynamics, but it saves a cargo bay. It exploded on liftoff from Minmus

    Not too bad, the probe core and antenna survived, so I am using its remains as science station on Minmus, for the "science from X" contracts. I would have needed to land a probe to leave there anyway.


    A better version of Minmus lander

    I loathe using a 100 kg cargo bay to shield a 50 kg part, but I had significant problems with aerodynamics. I have enough deltaV anyway, I can afford the extra mass just like I can afford some extra drag, this version is easier to fly. But the main change is to put the decoupler under the science jr. It would burn in the atmosphere anyway, and since taking off from Minmus is not as trivial as I was hoping it would be, shedding any possible mass and reducing angolar momentum helps tipping the point upwards.


    Discarding the science jr with the fuel tanks

    I'll never discover if this would have sufficed to lift off from the ground, though, because I experimented and found something even better:


    Opening the cargo bay makes the probe jump

    Closing and opening the cargo bay causes the probe to make a small jump on the surface, which is enough to ignite the engine safely, without sliding on the ground.

    The last bother was having to keep the spent tanks through all the ascent. I would like an additional decoupler between the science jr and the drop tanks, but I really can't spare any part right now. But I just got enough science for advanced rocketry, which gives bigger fuel tanks, reducing part count. This way I could afford the extra decoupler, and even a couple extra fuel tanks.

    Now I have all I need to finish Minmus exploration in comfort. I'll get nearly 300 science, which will unlock what I need for manned landings.

  5. On 7/9/2024 at 1:15 AM, boriz said:

    So. I go to the tracking center and set an alarm for a Duna transfer, and wait while it time warps. The time warp stops, the alarm signals the launch window, I launch to LKO and circularise. Then I set a planetary transfer manoeuvre using the manoeuvre tool, and now I have to wait another 29 days in orbit! Is that right or am I missing something?

    I mean, 29 days? Doesn't that mean the alarm went off 29 days too early?

    Is there some way to get the alarm to go off 29 days later, or some other workaround? Frankly, warping 29 day in orbit is like a strobing headache. I'm not epileptic, but if I were...

    the transfer maneuver tool is garbage. you are much better off learning interplanetary travel and planning the maneuvers for yourself.


  6. Part 1: Escape from Kerbin

    The limitations of life support make Mun missions a lot harder, and Minmus missions impossible early on. To leave Kerbin I need to research basic science; can I find the necessary science points without leaving the home planet?



    1.1) Strip-mining Kerbin


    The beginning of a caveman shouldn't be too different. But, once again, I find another complication that has nothing to do with life support: money. I don't get refunds for the crew pod.


    Recovering the command pod on the launchpad gives back exactly 9 funds

    Early contracts pay very little, and are generally covered by recovering the spacecraft. I lose 600 funds every time I launch and recover a craft, so most early test contracts don't pay enough. I have two contracts that still earn me some money: splashed down tests generally pay 1500 total, and early survey contracts also pay around 1500 total.


    To reach the survey location, I increase the range by using the pod as an impromptu wing


    I even tested with adding winglets, but those things keep the vessel pointing straight prograde, when I'd need an angle of attack to generate lift. they didn't work


    Here I landed on the island runway. I was hoping it would give a science point for discovering an anomaly


    All that is to pay the cost of a roller to mine the KSC for early science

    With this early science from the KSC, I can unlock basic rocketry, engineering 101, and survivability. Those give access to the early science instruments, and to the first rocket engines.


    I am NOT going to use the geiger counter; I was merely curious to see if it still worked with kerbalism science disabled. And I had to post this funny report

    When attempting to use kerbalism science, I reached space with a jumper based on the flea booster, but liquid fuel engines allow more control. They allow more precision to fall on specific biomes, and they allow bringing a kerbal in space in EVA.


    I already brought a kerbal to take EVA reports in space with this contraption in chapter 0. No idea why, last time it just worked, this time I needed a thermal shield

    The key node to unlock is basic science. It does give the probe core, which allows Mun landings. It also gives - kerbalism shuffles some parts a bit - access to hydrogen fuel cells, which last very long and are the first long term source of electricity. Basically, I need basic science to leave Kerbin.

    At this point, in my previous nanodiamond run, I got general rocketry, I unlocked a terrier engine with a contract, and I did flybys of Mun and Minmus. Not this time, I can't reach Minmus with the life support I currently have. The Mun flyby, alone, gives 17 science total - and it requires general rocketry, which costs 20 science, so I gain nothing.

    On the other hand, I also lose nothing, the technology pays for itself - especially when you also factr in 1 science for recovering a vehicle from Mun orbit, and 1 science from the contract. I still need to tech it to land on Mun, and having access to the terrier engine - and to bigger fuel tanks, for reduced part count - will help. So I did send a Mun flyby. But for practicality, I'll cover it in the next subchapter, and finish first with Kerbin exploration. First mentioning a few more failed attempts.


    This thing was supposed to be a rudimental plane to get survey contracts at greater distances. It failed, for it has no capacity to maneuver. No, the gimbaling rocket can do nothing against aerodinamic forces


    This was an attempt to reach Mun without general rocketry. The "Munkicker", on the right, should lean on the Munshooter and push it

    I experimented that concept with flat surfaces, in another challenge, and it worked. But the long rocket and pointy command pod don't lend themselves to be pushed that way, and they always slipped away. If this kind of pushing can be done with the parts available, it's beyond my skill level.

    Anyway, unlocking general rocketry I got an easier time exploring the rest of Kerbin.


    Here landing near the north pole. There are four polar biomes on Kerbin, and I needed to get them all

    Although I forgot to take flying low EVA reports. Which I could take by jumping on the ground. I missed a handful of science points that way, but I still got enough.


    The terrier allowed an improved version of the rocket that brought an EVA kerbal to space. This one could achieve orbit, and therefore get all biomes of Kerbin

    In kerbalism, an astronaut on his suit has enough oxygen for 2 hours. Enough to take EVA reports all around Kerbin, but I can't reach Mun. There will be no more EVA reports in this career.


    Here landing on the mountains


    As soon as jeb got out of the pod, the pod lost SAS and started tumbling down the ridge. Just a nuisance, but I have to take boring surveys to get the money back

    I eventually visited all Kerbin biomes.

    1.2) We choose to go to the Mun, even though we're not ready for it


    I could wait to go to Mun. If I don't research general rocketry, I can get basic science from Kerbin alone. But where's the fun if I don't push limits?

    The problem with with going to Mun, as I mentioned in chapter 0, is having a power source. Engineering 101 gives access to monopropellant fuel cell in the crew pod, but it's basically useless. Survivability enables the first oxygen tanks; I did some testing, a ship can survive 20 to 25 hours with that. I can carry more oxyge tanks (though part limitation is always a harsh mistress) but I don't have access to more monopropellant tanks, putting a hard limit to survivability. 20 hours are barely enough for a Mun mission.

    First issue: I need to maximize mass to orbit. But the engines I have can't lift 18 tons, and I don't have the lateral decouplers for boosters. Here's my fix.


    I strapped a fuel tank, with an in-line decoupler, and attached the boosters to that tank

    Initial plan was to activate the reliant after the boosters are jettisoned, but I discovered that the rocket can work perfectly well even through the fuel tank. Why was I igniting the engine with the fuel tank attached? See, I wanted to experiment if it was possible to destroy the tank with the heat of the rocket; this way I could skip the decoupler. I am that starved for parts. I already have all the caveman limitations, but I also need to add oxygen tanks. Incidentally, the reliant alone could lift that stack, but I was out of parts to put all the fuel tanks I wanted; plus, a higher TWR for liftoff is desirable.


    Here I got the first malfunction to the engine. The rocket was lost, Jeb could detach his pod and safely activate the parachute

    Malfunctions are another hallmark of kerbalism, but so far I didn't mention them. They are more relevant to long term missions. Engines can malfunction at any ignition, but while on suborbital trajectories, your kerbal will always survive, you just have to launch another rocket.

    For orbital missions, I always made sure to stay low enough that I could reasonably deorbit with just the push of the decoupler. Even if that failed, sending a rescue mission to push the pod retrograde is feasible; I can't get a boost to Mun, but a few tens of m/s retrograde, those I can provide.

    For this Mun mission... well, I paid the premium price for a high quality terrier engine, but if it malfunctions, the pilot will just die. I can't mount a rescue mission that far with my current technology. I'll just take the risk, it's roughly 1% per mission. Another reason to look forward to authomated probes.


    The Munshooter reaches orbit with 2 km/s. Enough for a normal Mun mission, but I'm maneuvering blindly


    Timing for intercept good?


    Looks like


    Spot on!

    Getting a Mun intercept is easy. When Mun appears over the horizon, burn prograde and put your apoapsis at 11.6 Mm (Mun orbits at 11.4, but spending longer at apoapsis helps). I've been able to reproduce that very accurately. Of course, now I need to burn radially to avoid crashing on Mun.


    I exited in this high orbit. But I have plenty of fuel left, to lower periapsis

    Do notice the oxygen and monopropellant level. Ten hours into the mission, I have slightly more than half the oxygen left, and 75% of monopropellant. I could get more time by adding oxygen tanks, but I was limited by part count. By the way, the timer clock uses 24 hours because I created this kerbalism folder by copying the rss modded folder and removing the rss mod. I did that because it was the most recent kerbalism install I had; but I may not have done a perfect job of deleting all remains of rss. So I have a 24 hours timer.

    Anyway, I had enough oxygen to return safely, carrying all the Mun space low experiments. The second mission, to get Mun space high science, was a lot closer. I had a contract asking to orbit around Mun, so I slowed down orbit, then accelerated again, but I had to take one full round of the Mun, in a relatively high orbit, and that costed time.


    As a result, here I am 16 hours into the mission, starting to run short on oxygen


    Here I shut down the fuel cell. I must save some oxygen for, you know, breathing

    Tense moments here. If I pick a too high periapsis, I will return to space after an atmospheric pass, and Jeb will suffocate. If I pick the periapsis too low, Jeb will burn.


    With the scrubber offline, CO2 is building up. Here I am at 1%, at 2% Jeb will die: I have maybe another hour. I'm safe

    Those two missions brought back enough science to cover the cost of general rocketry, and left me with some useful tools to finish Kerbin exploration.


    In the end, all this science farming - getting all Kerbin biomes, and all science from Mun space - barely got me the 45 science required for basic science.


    The tech tree, after this chapter

    It was close, though not exceedingly so. If needed, I still could gather flying low EVA reports around Kerbin, which I forgot; that was worth 3 to 5 more points. Then I could collect goo observations multiple times, getting an additional 0.1 points per biome. On all KSC minibiomes, that amounts to something. Plus, I missed Mun space high thermometer science, because in that second flyby the thermometer exploded on reentry. All in all, I could have gathered 6 to 8 more science points that way.

    Then, if I really was desperate, there are some ponds around where one can get splashed down science in grasslands and desert biomes. But I'd have to be really desperate to try to target one of those tiny ponds while falling down from orbit.

    So yes, it was remarkably close. I needed 100 science to unlock this part of the tech tree - which is the bare minimum to achieve Mun landings - and even the most efficient farming would have given at most 10% more than that.

    Just goes to highlight how impossible it was to try this challenge with kerbalism reworked science.

  7. My previous caveman run relied heavily on being able to stay in space indefinitely. Doing rendez-vous without maneuver nodes has that effect.

    Kerbalism puts a sharp time limit on how long i can stay in orbit. it also requires bringing more parts and more mass for life support, when both are heavily limited by the caveman challenge. A couple weeks ago I started toying with concepts for a kerbalism nanodiamond challenge; now it's time to start a new report.

    To think I announced my retirement from this game only a couple months ago...

    Part 0: Thou shalt not get basic science!

    At first, I try the challenge with full kerbalism rules. But it turns out, kerbalism deeply nerfs early game science; with rewards capped at 10%, it is impossible to leave Kerbin.


    And that's before even counting all the issues with life support and electricity


    Using kerbalism has noticeable effects only once one leaves Kerbin orbit. The crew pod is authomatically equipped with enough life support for all orbital missions, after all. I was only expecting real issues once Mun missions came into play.

    Yet my first attempt at this challenge was twarthed not by life support, part failure, or radiations, but by something more insidious: science redesign. Indeed, besides adding all manner of rules to how science works, the storage of data and samples, the transmission speed of antennas (all things which could be tackled with some patience), the mod curtails most early game science. Kerbalism does

    - remove all the ksc mini-biomes that gave a much-needed science boost to nanodiamond caveman challenges.

    - made goo a global experiment; you can only run it once per planet, instead of once per biome. Goodbye to another big chunk of early science.

    - flying low crew report has become global; you can only collect it once, instead of once per biome over all kerbin.

    - flying low EVA report can't be collected at all.

    - space low eva report is also global, no longer biome dependent.

    As partial compensation:

    - flying low baromether is biome-dependent

    - you get a new instrument, the geiger counter (but it only gives 0.1 science per biome).

    Additionally, there's a bunch of unique experiments available on probe cores and long term habitation modules, but of course they don't matter if I can't get there in the first place.

    But I didn't want to just give up on the full experience, so I still tried to get away from Kerbin with the full kerbalism rules.

    Getting the easy experiments (goo and reports from early flights around the ksc) doesn't even net enough science to unlock the first node. I could get there by biome-mining, but that's time consuming, so I took a test contract to get early access to decoupler, and built a suborbital jumper with nothing but flea boosters


    The flea-based suborbital jumper


    And an improved version, that can get to high space. barely

    With that, I brought home enough science to unlock engineering 101, which includes the thermometer and geiger counter. The thermometer is a welcome, if limited, addition to the science options. The geiger counter... it gives exactly 0.1 science points for every Kerbin biome. Plus 0.8 total for crossing both radiation belts.

    Still, with that and a few biomes I got basic rocketry, which gives access to the first orbiter.


    The main reason to unlock the first orbiter is that the contract pays 1 science

    Then I went squeezing every possible bit of early science I could.


    This contraption managed to bring Val in low orbit, to collect an eva report. Worth 1 full science point!


    This improved version could get to space high, for 1.5 science points!

    Alas, that's not enough. I collected all science I can get from kerbin orbit, and while I still have to mine kerbin biomes, each one only gives 0.8 science (0.2 for thermometer flying low, 0.1 for crew report, 0.1 for radiation scan, 0.1 for thermometer, 0.3 for eva report. Remember, neither flying low report, flying low EVA nor goo canisters are available in individual biomes). With stock science, it's 2.6 points.

    I run all the math, and determined that if I stripped all kerbin biomes, I would get to 13 science. Not enough to unlock survivability.

    I could, potentially, try for a Mun flyby with the tech I have.


    This thing, on a lucky day, can get to orbit with 1100 m/s left

    1100 m/s from LKO would be plenty for a free-return trajectory, but of course I can't use maneuver nodes. Nah, that's not even on top of my problems right now.

    First problem is life support. Kerbals breath, and they produce CO2. That has to be scrubbed, but the scrubber consumes electricity. the battery lasts approximately 1 hour, then the CO2 is no longer removed. It accumulates for another couple hours, until it reaches 2%. then the kerbal starts to suffocate. And I have no way to power up the scrubber. I am limited to 140 electricity given by the pod. Even if I could strap another pod, and somehow achieve enough deltaV despite the extra mass, I'd still be far short of the time needed for a Mun flyby.

    Actually, the game does give me an option to generate electricity: the monopropellant fuel cell, which is included as optional in the pod (it adds 100 kg, though, not negligible in caveman). The monopropellant on board would suffice to power up the scrubber for 20-25 hours. But the fuel cell also uses oxygen, and the oxygen on board can only power up the scrubber for a few minutes. Additional oxygen tanks are unlocked with survivability, which I just established I can't unlock.

    But ok, I can fix this. Instead of teching basic rocketry, I can get most Kerbin biomes with suborbital jumpers. Maybe. I'm not sure I can reach the poles or the badlands with the available deltaV of the Space 2. Regardless, let us assume that I can somehow get those 2 science points in some way. Then I have to run a Mun flyby with 1100 m/s, lasting at most 3 kerbal days, and without being able to save-scum. Extremely unlikely.

    But to settle things once and for all, I tried cheating the Mun flyby, and see how much science I could potentially get. It turns out, goo container gives less science than it does in stock. Baromether doesn't work in space. Geiger counter is pitiful. I got less than a dozen science points. Even if I somehow managed it, it wouldn't help me at all. I need to unlock basic science to proceed, it gives both bigger electricity supplies and the probe core; but I can't get nowhere near close to it. In those conditions, the challenge is impossible.

    Ok, technically not impossible. There is an administrative policy that gives science for money. It requires a minimum reputation, that I can increase by flying tourists at a financial loss. Which would require more missions to pay for. But I calculated, by flying 5000 missions or so, I could eventually get to sell money for tech.

    But, even if I had the required patience (it's not actually any more time consuming than assembling the Navis Sideralis Neanderthalensis one small module at a time, though assembling that mothership was a lot more interesting) what would be the point of it?

    I therefore settle for using kerbalism, but keeping stock science.

  8. 21 hours ago, DennisB said:

    My Tylo tour doesn't go well. It turned out, that my rover isn't strong enough for Tylo. I had already some explosions, and lost several hours of driving, because I still don't save often enough, and if I load the autosave, it loads the moment immediately after the crash. Now I'm sure, that I can't complete the mission before my vacation, so there will come some weeks of silence here. I will complete the mission for sure, but I'm a little sad, that I can't do it in a manner, like I wanted, and like I did my Eve mission. Before Tylo, I reloaded only 7 times, and only 3 of them were because of my fault. From now, I have to drive very careful or reload more often.

    it doesn't matter how safe your rover is. never let more than 15-20 minutes pass between saves. something i learned through painful experience.

    the problem is, if your rover is safe and sturdy, you'll just go faster. you'll keep going faster until you wreck it.

    it's called risk compensation. 'Booth's rule #2' states that "The safer skydiving gear becomes, the more chances skydivers will take, in order to keep the fatality rate constant", and it clearly applies also to driving rovers.

  9. 1 hour ago, Scarecrow71 said:


    With that said, I'm curious as to how this would have turned out if you simply went for the administrative boost.  Knowing that the level of science points one gets from the extraordinarily low percentage means you'd have to get to docking ports as early as possible, which (as you stated) isn't really possible unless you did the science contractors policy and farm science points that way.  I myself have never used any administrative policies in any game I've played, Caveman or otherwise, because I simply never wanted to use them.  But now you've got me curious as to how long it would really take, and if it is feasible.  I'll never use Kerbalism because I don't like the added brainpower needed to deal with life support in this game (I'm on the side of "yes, it's a life-like game, but that's too life-like for me" of this particular fence).  But I'm curious now.


    well, the game was only spawning test and tourism contracts. for some reason, recovering a vehicle was not paying back the command module, so testing at the launchpad for pennies was actually performed at a loss; but contracts to test parts splashed down culd be done easily, and thye paid some 1500 to 2000 funds - meaning a net gain of 1000 per such test, after removing the cost of the crew pod. that was my source of money - though, that being a test run, i actually cheated my money, as before spending weeks farming boring contracts i wanted first to see if the challenge was possible at all.

    those contracts didn't pay reputation. I needed a minimum reputation treshold before i could activate the [money to science] policy. but tourist contracts did pay a reputation point. they were a financial loss, though. a two-seater needed to bring a tourist in a suborbital jump would cost around 10k, almost none recoverable, and the tourist would only pay around 1000. but it would give a reputation point. i needed some 400 more reputation to reach the point where i could unlock the administrative policy.

    let's keep round numbers for the sake of calculation, and assume i would be able to pay a tourist contract for every 10 test contracts. in this case, i would have needed to conduct 4000 test missions, and carry 400 tourists, and then i could unlock the policy. it would give 1 science every 12000 funds, iirc, which means (if it even does give  0.1 points every time I run a test contract, rather than rounding down to 0 for values too small), that i'd have needed some 400 more missions to unlock basic science - which would give both the stayputnik probe core, and the first real source of electricity by unlocking extra batteries.

    i'd also needed several dozen missions to biome farm all of kerbin. they would entail launching an orbiter 2 (it arrives orbit with 1100 m/s, which can be used to kill orbital velocity fast and drop with fairly good precision. even then, small biomes like badlands and tundra would be hard to pinpoint). each such orbiter would then require 11 test missions to farm money. or, i could have just farmed more science once i unlocked the policy.

    hey, now that i break it down that way, 5000 missions seem relatively feasible. they are short ones, probably can be done in 5 minutes (more for suborbital tourists, but test contracts in the sea are fast), so we're looking at 100 hours. more or less what it took for the orbital assembly of navis sideralis neanderthalensis. but so extremely boring, falling into the sea 4500 times.


    once i unlocked basic science, i could start getting more science from unmanned mun and minmus flybys. that would give enough for general rocketry, which would unlock "test the terrier engine" contracts. with probe cores and terrier engines, i could land unmanned probes on mun and minmus, farming enough science to unlock solar panels and docking ports. once i got solar panels and docking ports, i could start building bigger ships one module at a time, and i would have no limits. i was actually planning to end the run with a duna mission; with what i learned of manually calculating orbital times in the previous jool run, it would be feasible.

    or, i could have just kept on gaining science by money.


  10. 5 hours ago, theJesuit said:

    In the settings.cfg in the kerbalism config of kerbalism simplex folder you can turn things off like science.

    where? because i am looking at tha cfg file and i don't see it



      // profile used
      Profile = default                   // valid values are: 'default', 'none' or custom profiles (see Profiles folder)

      // user-defined features
      Reliability = true                  // component malfunctions and critical failures
      Deploy = true                       // add EC cost to keep module working, add EC cost to Extend\Retract (Deploy.cfg has the modules supported list)
      Science = true                      // science data storage, transmission and analysis
      SpaceWeather = true                 // coronal mass ejections
      Automation = true                   // control vessel components using scripts

      // pressure settings
      PressureFactor = 10.0               // pressurized modifier value for vessels below the threshold
      PressureThreshold = 0.9             // level of atmosphere resource that determine pressurized status

      // poisoning settings
      PoisoningFactor = 0.0               // poisoning modifier value for vessels below the threshold
      PoisoningThreshold = 0.02           // level of waste atmosphere resource that determine co2 poisoning status

      // science settings
      ScienceDialog = true                // keep showing the stock science dialog

      // comms
      DataRateDampingExponent = 6         // stock commnet: exponent by which antenna bandwidth decreases with distance. higher value = lower bandwidth.
                                          // systems that have been scaled up or down should change this value accordingly
      DataRateDampingExponentRT = 6       // same as above, but for RemoteTech
      TransmitterActiveEcFactor = 1.5     // factor to the nominal ec consumption rate while antenna is active (transmitting)
      TransmitterPassiveEcFactor = 0.04   // factor to the nominal ec consumption rate while antenna is inactive (idle/receiving)
      DataRateMinimumBitsPerSecond = 1.0  // as long as there is a control connection, the science data rate will never go below this.

      // reliability settings
      QualityScale = 4.0                  // scale applied to MTBF for high-quality components

      // crew level
      LaboratoryCrewLevelBonus = 0.2      // Laboratory efficiency gain for each level of a scientist
      MaxLaborartoryBonus = 2.0           // Laboratory efficiency gain will never exceed this limit
      HarvesterCrewLevelBonus = 0.1       // Harvester efficiency gain for each level of an engineer on the vessel
      MaxHarvesterBonus = 1.5             // Harvester efficiency gain will never exceed this limit

      // misc
      EnforceCoherency = true             // detect and avoid issues at high timewarp in external modules
      TrackingPivot = true                // simulate tracking solar panel around the pivot
      HeadLampsCost = 0.002               // EC/s cost if eva headlamps are on
      LowQualityRendering = false         // use less particles to render the magnetic fields
      UIScale = 1.0                       // scale UI elements by this factor, relative to KSP scaling settings, useful for high DPI screens
      UIPanelWidthScale = 1.0             // scale UI Panel Width by this factor, relative to KSP scaling settings, useful for high DPI screens

      ExternRadiation = 0.04              // cosmic background radiation in rad/h. note: this will be affected by magnetospheres of kerbin and sun
      StormRadiation = 5.0                // default storm radiation in rad/h, will be affected by solar cycle. can be changed in game preferences
      //RadiationInSievert = true         // use Sievert (Sv) iso. rad as radiation unit

      // installation sanity check settings
      CheckForCRP = true

      // uncomment the following line to disable the warning about RemoteTech and/or ResearchBodies
      // ModsWarning = none

      UseSamplingSunFactor = false        // use experimental sunlight factor calculation for fast time warps
      // debug / logging
      VolumeAndSurfaceLogging = false      // set to true to have the full output of crewed parts volume/surface calculations written to the KSP.log
                                          // can help in choosing between the available methods, or for providing hardcoded volume/surface in the part configs


    i see only one mention of science, and it only says about storage, transmission and analysis. that is, it would have the science experiments happen instantly instead of over time, and it would have the normal stock way of handling science experiment instead of the division between samples and data.

    oh, and there's sciencedialog, but it applies to dialog.

    i don't see anything that would leave all science management as stock. not unless some of those options are mislabeled



  11. I read somewhere that there is a simple option to install kerbalism while keeping the normal stock science.

    in particular, i am trying to make a kerbalism run with science capped at 10%, but i'm finding it impossible, with the goo container nerfed and the ksc minibiomes removed, to get away from kerbin orbit.

    can anyone tell me where to edit the config files to restore normal stock science? thanks

  12. I tried a kerbalism nanodiamond caveman run. i failed.

    not (much) because of the additional limitations of life support, but due to kerbalism science rework.

    kerbalism did

    - remove all the ksc mini-biomes that gave a much-needed science boost to nanodiamond caveman challenges.

    - made goo a global experiment; you can only run it once per planet, instead of once per biome. goodbye to another big chunk of early science

    - flying low crew report has become global; you can only collect it once, instead of once per biome over all kerbin.

    - space low eva report is also global, no longer biome dependent.

    as partial compensation:

    - flying low baromether is biome-dependent

    - you get a new instrument, the geiger counter.

    - probe cores have a handful of specific experiments


    Still, I gave it a try.

    Getting the easy experiments (goo and reports from early flights around the ksc) doesn't even net enough science to unlock the first node. I could get there by biome-mining, but that's time consuming, so I took a test contract to get early access to decoupler, and built a suborbital jumper with nothing but flea boosters


    the flea-based suborbital jumper


    And an improved version, that can get to high space. barely

    with that, i brought home enough science to unlock engineering 101, which includes the thermometer and geiger counter. the thermometer is a welcome, if limited, addition to the science options. the geiger counter... it gives exactly 0.1 science points for every kerbin biome. plus 0.8 total for crossing both radiation belts.

    Still, with that and a few biomes I got basic rocketry, which gives access to the first orbiter.


    The main reason to unlock the first orbiter is that the contract pays 1 science

    Then I went squeezing every possible bit of early science I could


    this contraption managed to bring Val in low orbit, to collect an eva report. worth 1 full science point!


    This improved version could get to space high, for 1.5 science points!

    Alas, t's not enough. I collected all science I can get from kerbin orbit, and while I still have to mine kerbin biomes, each one only gives 0.8 science (0.2 for thermometer flying low, 0.1 for crew report, 0.1 for radiation scan, 0.1 for thermometer, 0.3 for eva report. remember, neither flying low report, flying low EVA nor goo canisters are available in individual biomes).

    I run all the math, and determined that if I stripped all kerbin biomes, I would get to 13 science. not enough to unlock survivability.

    So i tried a Mun flyby. It's potentially possible.


    this thing, on a lucky day, can get to orbit with 1100 m/s left

    can I return from Mun without maneuver nodes, without quickloading, and with only 250 m/s? I didn't have a chance to try. After a couple hours, I got a message that Jeb was dieing. You see, with kerbalism life support kerbal breath, and they produce CO2. That has to be scrubbed, but the scrubber consumes electricity. the battery lasts approximately 1 hour, then the CO2 is no longer removed. It accumulates for another hour or so, until it reaches 2%. then the kerbal starts to suffocate.

    so yes, eventually it was life support that killed me.

    so, I can't go to mun without a source of electricity. the engine produces electricity, of course, but i don't have enough fuel.

    Kerbalism give me access to monopropellant fuel cells, though, incorporated in the crew pod.  i tried it, and one hour later jeb suffocated. turn out, that fuel cell consumes oxygen, and pretty fast (the crew pod has enough for 5 days under normal use). and I haven't unlocked extra oxygen tanks yet.

    but ok, i only need to find a couple science points somewhere, and then i can unlock oxygen tanks and use the monopropellant fuel cell and reach mun.

    alas, what put the final nail into the coffin was discovering that the 10 units of monopropellant included in the crew pod only generate a dozen units of electricity. it only gains a few minutes of life support. and I can't put any extra monopropellant, because - you guess - i haven't unlocked mono propellant tank.

    even if I could launch two crew pods together and still somehow have enough deltaV, life support is still insufficient to reach mun. I'd need to unlock basic science to get the first real source of electricity. it takes 45 science. and while survivability unlocks the barometer, that gives 15, maybe 20 science points from flying around kerbin. and it doesn't work in space. i'd have no way to get the remaining 25 science.

    so, pure kerbalism nanodiamond can't be done. Ok, technically i could fulfill tourist contract until i improve reputation a bit, which would allow the private science contractors policy, that would give science every time i earn money. but that would take an ungodly amount of time and, more importantly, it would make the challenge meaningless.

    now i'm trying to figure out how to keep kerbalism life support and radiations while keeping the normal stock science, and try with that.



  13. On 5/27/2024 at 8:49 PM, Geryz said:

    Hey there, @JacobJHC, I know I'm a little late to the party but I'd like to post my submission for the challenge at Level 3!
    For my mission, the Hephaestus V, little regard was given to achieve minimum funds or mass requirements. Instead, I intentionally made it as flashy and ludicrous as possible. Not to mention, I added the additional challenge of Kerbalism (SIMPLEX) Life support (although with radiation turned off).  In the end, I ended up with a mothership that used a ridiculous 45 Nerv Engines, had to be assembled in 8 launches, most of which were done with a completely ginormous 220t to LKO launch vehicle called the Achilles 2b. The entire mission and its mod list is documented in a video: https://youtu.be/OWz_SJNtiuY. Thanks in advance for reviewing my submission!


    Congratulations on completing the Jool 5 challenge in a heavily modded environment.
    before i register your submission, a few additional questions:

    - what was the part count on hephestus V? did it lag significantly for it?

    - how did you tackle life support? did you just bring a large amount of supplies, or was there some more complex recycling chain involved?

    P.S. Sorry for not being impressed by the 1000 tons and 45 nervs, but I've done a lot worse.  A downside of picking me as challenge keeper.

    P.P.S. congratulations also on being the first submission I review as new challenge keeper

  14. Quote


    After several years of Space Exploration Kerbals have gained a lot of experience in building and blasting rockets, spaceships, stations, and landing on other bodies. The government started to look for other fun stuff to support so they want to cut the Kerbal Space Progam fundings. but there is still one huge thing to do: they still haven't landed on any of the Jool moons!

    Jebediah called a meeting with the other Kerbonauts and engineers. In face of funding cuts, they have to reduce the number of missions. And so they have found only one solution:

    To execute one giant mission, the bravest and craziest of all time, in which they will land on all the moons and come back in one!

    Many of the less crazy engineers and sane common Kerbals immediately started to proclaim that this is impossible, even with the bravest and most stupid Kerbonauts and engineers. This idea gained a lot of interest and attention in the public and even in the government. Jebediah and the others realized that with this new, huge publicity the Space Program may be saved and they can continue to do what they love the best! They started to think about the details of this enormous mission...


    This challenge was continued with permission from the previous thread manager @JacobJHC


    LINK to the old Jool-5 thread There are over 50 pages of entries and discussion, so look and see what made it and what didn't

    LINK to the older Jool-5 thread There are over forty-five pages of entries and discussion,  so look and see what made it and what didn't

    LINK to the oldest Jool-5 thread. There are hundreds of pages of entries and discussion, so look at it to see what worked and what didn't!



    Given the scale of this challenge, everyone who completes the mission successfully gets a spot in the hall of fame.

    1. No cheating, including the stock debug menu cheats, HyperEdit, kraken drives, or file editing.  HyperEdit is allowed for testing but get rid of that H when you fly the real mission!
    2. No part-clipping of functional parts (fuel tanks, batteries, crew pods, engines, science parts, SAS) into each other. It is okay to clip structural and non-functional parts, wings, and heat shields.
    3. Any number of launches are allowed to assemble the ship in low Kerbin orbit (preferably below 100km, not a hard ceiling though, but do try to stay around or below 100km at most). All launches must be flown!
    4. There's funding for one main ship only so all the crew, lander(s) and other stuff has to go to Jool as one big ship.  Once the ship leaves LKO, it cannot obtain more parts or fuel unless it mines and refines the fuel itself. The ship can separate once in Jool's SOI.
    5. Kerbals must be in a pod or cabin (no seats) for the interplanetary journey. Seats are okay for landing and flying within the Jool system.
    6. One refueling mission is allowed in the Jool system if you run out of fuel, unless your ship uses ISRU. The refueling mission can only transfer resources, not parts, to your Jool 5 craft. This mission must actually be flown!
    7. On all of the landings, the Kerbal must be able to get out and walk (or swim!) around on the surface.  Make sure your ladders work!
    8. Use Normal difficulty or harder, except, any ComNet settings are allowed including turning it off completely.
    9. All the Kerbals have to arrive back to Kerbin surface at the end of the mission, happy and alive. You are allowed to optionally send up a craft to return them from LKO.


    10. Mods / DLC:
    STOCK: only mods which do not add parts and do not change physics are allowed.  This includes any informational, planning, visual, autopilot, or automatic functions.

    DLC: Any and all DLC made for Kerbal Space Program are allowed.

    MODDED: Use of most parts mods and certain game mechanics mods are allowed.  You NO LONGER HAVE TO ASK if your favorite part pack is allowed!  Some parts mods are prohibited.  Please see below.
    Specific Mods:


    Examples of popular mods allowed in stock entries:
    MechJeb, KER, KAC, Precise Node, Transfer Window Planner, EVE, Scatterer, Chatterer, Pilot Assistant, Docking Alignment Indicator, TAC Fuel Balancer, Throttle Controlled Avionics, X Science.

    Examples of allowed game mechanics mods that would count as modded:
    FAR, DRE, Remote Tech, ScanSat, Kopernicus (As long as whatever Kopernicus is adding doesn't affect your mission you're good), part welding, any life support, any new science experiments, fuel switchers

    Prohibited Mods (powerful enough to make the challenge trivial, or too confusing to judge): 

    KSP Interstellar
    Near Future Propulsion
    OPT Spaceplane
    B9 Aerospace
    Kerbal Atomics
    Atomic Age
    Extraplanetary Launch Pads
    OSE Workshop
    Impossible Innovations
    Solaris Hypernautics
    Deep Space Exploration Vessels
    Any Orion nuclear pulsed propulsion
    Any warp drive or propellant-less space engine
    Any physics alteration that makes the challenge easier (reducing gravity, moving the moons, HyperEdit, or debug menu cheats)

    11. Submit your challenge as an imgur album, with good captions and descriptions, as a video or series of videos, or as a thread in Mission Reports.
    12. Pictures or it didn't happen! Please keep the resources tab open, as well as show the informative windows from Mechjeb or KER if you use them. Take a picture of every important moment, including transfers, dockings, landings, stagings, and refuelings. For Jeb's Level, also take pictures of the science screen when you recover your craft. Alternatively, video submissions are a great way to show everyone your mission as well. These will help future participants to see exactly how you accomplished each part!


    1ST LEVEL: one Kerbonaut lands on all the moons and come back safely.

    Low mass and low cost and low parts sub-challenges: with stock parts and physics, how low can you go and still accomplish the mission? NOTE: Low cost submissions may not utilize ISRU, or a negative cost would be possible. (Thanks @jinnantonix!)

    2ND LEVEL: two or more Kerbonauts land together on all the moons together and come back safely.

    3RD LEVEL: There's not enough time left for training one crew member to be an expert on all of the moons, so five Kerbonauts must go to the mission, with at least one unique Kerbonaut landing on each moon.

    JEBEDIAH'S LEVEL: collect as much Science as possible!  Your score is the number of science points from the Jool system only, returned to Kerbin (not transmitted).  Only stock experiments count for this!  To score, take pictures of the science screen(s) when you recover the data.  Otherwise, the rules are the same as 3rd Level.

    GATECRASHER / HONORARY MENTIONS: Missions completed the mission in spirit but didn't meet every requirement.

    ISRU:  Use of ISRU will get a note ISRU on the entry description in the hall of fame.  This includes stock ore harvesting and converting as well as mods such as Kethane and Karbonite.  ISRU is allowed for any level of completion.

    GRAND TOUR:  Not officially part of the challenge, but landing on all planets and moons in the Kerbol system in one mission will earn a GRAND TOUR note and the everlasting praise of all of Kerbal kind.  Rule 4 is waived, but any Kerbals on the mission cannot return to Kerbin in between any landings and you still must follow the other rules.

    Additional optional information to help others see how the mission was accomplished:
    - Which game versions did you use?
    - What mods did you use, if any?
    - How many Kerbals are on the mission?
    - How many launches were needed to start your mission from Kerbin?
    - How much did your mission cost?
    - Did you needed a refueling mission?
    - Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?
    - Share the delta-V information too, if you tracked it!


    Well, now this big announcement is in the Kerbal News, all the public is excited about this mission and even the Government is watching! Now it's up to you, to the engineers and to the bravest and craziest Kerbonauts of all time!


    Completion Badge: Anyone who has finished the challenge can add this badge to their signature.  The Low Mass Feather badge is available for entries in the low mass sub challenge.

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    Hall of Fame

    1st Level-

    - @Laie Video here. Used a smaller-than-you'd-expect rocket with a dedicated Tylo lander and a spaceplane shell that encloses the Vall-Bop-Pol lander to make the Laythe lander. A very well done mission with a great video. 

    - @Stratzenblitz75 Video here. Used a completely reusable mission involving a tiny mothership which orbited Tylo and tiny landers that explored the system. I should also point out that no nuclear engines or ions were used in the mission. Truly impressive.

    - @Ultimate Steve Videos here and here. Used a single launch in career mode sending Val to many places in the system including Vall. Very impressive how quickly the mission was thrown together and carried out. 

    - @IncongruousGoat Album here. A simple, single launch Jool 5 mission that only uses 42 parts! Very well optimized and well done. Good job!

    - @chargan ISRU Gif here. Used an ISRU shuttle and hopped from Kerbin, to the Mün, to the Joolian moons, to Duna, and finished it off with a glorious vertical landing at the KSC. Excellent job!

    - @GRS Album here. Used a massive, creatively named mothersheep that carried landers for Laythe and Tylo, landing on Vall and Bop (AND DRES!) by itself. As an added bonus, the lonely Dres was even visited, that doesn't happen very often. Amazing job!

    - @Challyss Album here. Used a brute force 5 meter launch booster with two 5 meter side boosters. Once in LKO used a vector-power stage to boost to an elliptical orbit, then used a rhino powered mothership to go to Jool, where it completed the mission.

    - @Superfluous J V ideos here. Used a single launch to send three Kerbals to the Jool system, where the ship parked in an elliptical Tylo orbit. From there a tug took the landers to their respective moons where they *wait for it* landed. The ship then fired all three Kerbals home safely. An amazing mission and equally amazing videos.

    - @Xurkitree 

    • Grand Tour Thread here. A surprisingly small mission that not only landed on all the Jool moons, but also every other planet and moon in the system. The mission sent a craft out to Eeloo, which landed and returned to Jool before heading home. Once in orbit Derton was picked up by a recovery rocket and landed safely back on Kerbin. Outstanding.
    • ISRU Video here. I don't even know where to start, Xurkitree didn't just do a Jool 5 in this mission, they did it twice. A large SSTO ISRU craft launched and refueled on Minmus before gravity assisting its way to Jool where it completed the landings and then returned to Kerbin, WHERE IT RELAUNCHED and then detached a small non-ISRU craft which carried out the landings again. A fun note was when the Laythe lander landed by computer control while the Kerbal parachuted down. Great job on your fourth Jool 5 submission!


    - @dvader Album here. A single launch using only chemical engines. Used several gravity assists to make the trip to Jool cheaper in terms of delta-v. Used a small but capable plane for Laythe, and a donut lander for the other moons (with extra fuel for Tylo and Vall.) Overall a very optimized mission, complete with a near KSC landing.

    - @fulgur Album here. A very small and well optimized mission with a smaller-than-you'd-expect mothership. Ions were used to scoot Jeb and Vall about the system to the various moons, and then left as the small mothership made its way home, getting into Kerbin orbit with only forty m/s of delta-v remaining. (Talk about close margins!) The crew were returned safely by an Aether SSTO.

    - @Pro100kerbonaut  ISRU Mission report here. Used an SSTO spaceplane to go to Minmus to refuel, then flew off to Jool. This mission is the most impressive in how it handled the Tylo landing. Not only was the landing done using the SSTO, but it came directly from Vall without refueling at Bop or Pol. The landings were all completed flawlessly, but was destroyed in a crash landing back on Kerbin. The pilot survived though, and any landing you can walk away from...

    - @dnbattley Album here. A direct ascent mission to all five moons, starting with Pol and Bop, then Vall, Tylo, and finally Laythe. The tensions on this mission were very high, as Jeb began his Tylo descent on a NERVA powered craft with a TWR of .9, managing to get it above 1 just in time to pull off the landing. From there Jeb flew to Laythe where he somehow missed the ocean (this might be a KSP first) and used the craft's jets to push it into the water for an ocean launch. After struggling back into orbit, Jeb flew by Tylo back to Kerbin, using a Duna aerogravity assist to get the right trajectory (ARE YOU SERIOUS?) Upon returning to Kerbin he was able to sneak in a Minmus landing. This mission is without a doubt one of the more Kerbal ones submitted, complete with Jeb gliding the final stage down to Kerbin with his EVA chute.

    - @EveMaster  Grand Tour, ISRU Thread here. Additional album here. EveMaster managed to complete the Jool 5 challenge with an ISRU craft, utilizing the power of two mammoth engines and a detachable spaceplane. Also went the extra few million miles and completed a grand tour! Both Bob and Jeb were on this mission, however Bill stayed behind on Eve, so only Jeb is being considered for this entry. Regardless, an excellently executed mission.

    - @ManEatingApe, @Jacke, @dvader, @Muetdhiver, @Rakaydos, and @Pds314 Mission thread here. What these users have completed is the first community Jool 5 mission for this specific thread, possibly the first ever. Furthermore, this mission was done in a 'caveman' style approach, meaning no maneuver nodes, tier one buildings, and launch mass restrictions. These restraints meant the main ship was built over multiple launches. The landings were carried out by a plane and three identical landers, which carried Jeb to, around, and back to Kerbin from the Jool system with excruciating precision. I highly suggest checking out this mission's thread, it's one of a kind!

    - @Space Nerd Album here. Using a long nuclear mothership, Jeb and Malvis conquered the Jool system in a surprisingly easy manner. An off-center Bop/Pol lander was docked onto the side of the mothership, leading to one of the more interesting mothership designs. Jeb took Laythe, Tylo, and Vall, and Malvis handled Bop and Pol. Once all the landings were done, they flew back to Kerbin and used a 10 meter heat shield to slow down and splashed into the ocean.

    - @ralanboyle Video here. Using a single brute force launch, a main station of sorts was put into Jool orbit,. From there a Laythe-plane was released, and upon returning from Laythe, a lander/fuel tank combo (and an extra part for Tylo) took on Tylo, then Vall, then Bop, then Pol. They forgot to put a flag on Pol, but who cares. Also, the lander was able to return to Kerbin all by itself. Quite the capable craft I'd say. The mission is edited into a very nice video, and I suggest giving it a watch if you've got the time.

    - @Carbonjvd Album here.  Using the incredibly stylish IPV Excelsior spacecraft, Tridous Kerman flew to Minmus to refuel, where she picked up two more crew members in Minmus orbit. From there they flew to Jool, where they refueled at Bop. After the tanks were full, they hopped to Pol, then Tylo, then Bop again, then Vall. From Vall the crew hopped back to Bop for more refueling, then flew to Laythe. After converting stored ore into liquid fuel, the crew touched down on an island, then (you guessed it) flew back to Bop! (for more fuel) From this final Bop landing, the Excelsior returned to Minmus where it all began, then safely touched down on Kerbin. A stylish landing for a stylish craft.

    - @camacju 

    • Grand TourAlbum here.  This mission is impressive as it not only visited the five moons of Jool, but also every other landable surface in the Kerbol System. The Jool portion of this mission was completed after the mothership completed the Eve portion, then used gravity assists to get to Jool. A Tylo assist put the ship on course to aerobrake at Laythe, and after landing on Laythe the lander was then reused for Tylo. The other moons were completed using a smaller lander, and the brave Kerbonaut landed back at Kerbin after quite an exciting trip.
    • Video here.  A very well edited video of a Jool 5 mission which used only liquid fuel! Launching from the runway as a spaceplane, the craft flew up before staging its rapier engines and continuing to orbit on nerva-power. The Laythe landing was done using a smaller spaceplane, and the rest of the landings were done using a very impressive lander which used only 1 nerv engine to land on all the other moons, including Tylo! The lander also served as a trip home and as a heat shield so that the brave kerbonaut could parachute to safety. This mission is beautifully summed up in the video link, and I highly suggest checking it out. A truly unique mission!
    • Video here.  Another liquid fuel only mission! This one utilized multiple relaunches of the same spaceplane to put multiple fuel tankers in orbit.  From there, the craft departed for Jool after some gravity assists and once again demonstrated the unusual, difficult, and impressive use of a nerv-powered Tylo lander. The video this mission was edited into is nice and tidy as well, and I suggest watching so you can see all the work that went into it.
    • Video here.  And yet another Jool 5 mission, but this time with only one engine! A cargo spaceplane with a single rapier made multiple launches to place several fuel tankers into orbit before flying a gravity-assist-utilizing course to Jool. Once in Jool space, the Laythe landing was conducted first, and then the plane ditched its outer shell so that just the rapier engine and a few fuel tanks remained. The craft then docked to a fuel module in orbit and flew to Vall, landed, then went to Tylo where a dedicated fuel drop-tank was used with what I'll dub "backflip staging". From there the Pol and Bop landings were done, with fuel to spare. After a fiery return to Kerbin, the brave Kerbonaut, Wildard, paraglided safely into the ocean. I recommend giving this video a watch, because it's short, to the point, and an amazing display of Kerbal engineering.
    • Grand TourVideo here. This mission is truly a record breaker, as not only was it a Jool 5, but it is the lowest mass Grand Tour without ISRU record holder, with a take off mass of 14.447 tons, less than a Mammoth engine! To focus on the Jool 5 portion of the mission, a spaceplane made a bouncy, thrash-flippy landing, then a tiny tiny lander was used to tackle Tylo. Pol and Bop were handled by a small ion lander, and Vall was handled by a lander so small it looks like a pancake. You should definitely give this mission's video a watch, as words cannot truly describe just how insanely optimized this mission was.

    - @Goufalite Video here. This mission began with the assembly of a main mothership in LKO. Once complete, the ship cruised to Jool where it used gravity assists to achieve orbit. From there, the spaceplane was deployed to Laythe, but missed its target island. Never fear! The spaceplane had such high performance it was able to fly to a nearby island. Once back with the mothership, the SSTO was drained and detatched, and a capsule on its nose was undocked and docked to the Tylo lander. The Tylo lander used 2 aerospike engines to blow its way to the surface, and the final stage of the lander redocked to the mothership to be reused as the lander for Vall, Bop, and Pol. After visiting Vall and Pol, the lander flew by itself (and out of connectivity range) to Bop, where it landed and returned to Pol all on its own (Goufalite found this method was more fuel efficient). After returning to the mothership at Pol, a Tylo gravity assist sent the crew home, and both safely landed only 50 kilometers from the KSC. This mission made me nostalgic for my first Jool 5 mission, which in turn makes this mission special to me. Nice job, @Goufalite:)

    - @king of nowhere 

    • Grand Tour. Mission thread here. This mission was done using Kerbalism, and an absolute UNIT of a mothership. Appropriately named the DREAM BIG, this ship conducted the Jool 5 challenge with dozens of farms, radiation shields, and drop ships to keep itself self-sufficient. Fighting food limitations, mod issues, solar storms, insanity and radiation damage, the crew of DREAM BIG flew throughout the entire Kerbol system planting flags on every world. The mission thread is an entertaining read, and has a video tour of the DREAM BIG spacecraft, which I highly recommend you check it out.  I congratulate @king of nowhere on completing the mission, and for not losing their sanity in the process!
    • Mission thread here.  This mission was done with tremendous build constraints, and done entirely in a no-contract career mode save. Each launch was limited to 20-25 tons, meaning it took dozens of flights to finish the main ship, the Marco Polonium. The ship used many cost and weigh saving methods, including using the Laythe lander as a stage on Tylo, and by using claws instead of docking ports in some cases. The mission also visited Duna, Ike, Eeloo, Dres, and Eve (orbit) as well. This mission is one of the most entertaining ones I've reviewed (along with one of the most optimized) and I highly recommend giving it a read.
    • Mission thread here. This mission was much like @king of nowhere's previous two in the sense that it involved Kerbalism and self-imposed building constraints. The result was a Jool 5 mission designed and flown to be as realistic as possible, and done with a maximum LKO mass of 140 tons. Bill and Bob took the Economic Downturn and its support craft to Jool and visited Tylo first, using the Seated Man lander, then made way for Laythe to deploy the Sole spaceplane, each accompanied by the space tug Right Answer. Sole's upper stage was reused as a Vall lander, while Seated Man's upper stage was used to land on Bop and Pol. For the inner three moons, great care was taken to limit the radiation damage incurred on the crew, with Bill being irradiated all the way to 95% upon his return to Economic Downturn. The return trajectory had to be tweaked a few times to prevent the capsule overheating, but Bill and Bob ultimately prevailed, and returned to Kerbin with nearly 500kg of samples. This mission is one of the few anxiety inducing submissions due to the challenges imposed by Jool's radiation belt. If you are a fan of gripping mission threads, I suggest giving this one a read.

    - @Lt_Duckweed Video here. This Jool 5 mission is notable for three reasons. Firstly, it is fully recoverable. Secondly, it only uses two engines, being the nerva and rapier. And thirdly, it was edited into a masterpiece of a video. This mission began with a launch just west of the KSC, and made a direct transfer to Jool. Upon Jool arrival, the elegently designed craft deployed a nerva-propelled lander, which performed the Tylo landing. After refueling at the main ship, the lander then visited Vall, Bop, and Pol with refueling trips to the main ship in between. The lander then returned to the main craft, which transfered to Laythe, completing the final landing. The craft then returned to Kerbin and came to a stop on the KSC runway, returning with it every part it launched with. I must repeat the high quality video the mission is edited into, and strongly suggest giving it a watch.

    - @bwest31415 Album here.  This mission began with the launch of a long thin rocket which was followed by a normal transfer to Jool. Upon arrival to Jool however, inflatable heat shields were used to induce a Joolian aerobrake, a maneuver I've scarcely seen used since the addition of reentry heating to the game. The first landing to be done was Laythe, and the final stage of the lander was used to land on Vall and Tylo. The lander then left the main ship behind and traveled to Pol, then Bop, then back to Kerbin all without refueling. Jeb landed safely back on Kerbin after a toasty aerocapture, and exited the pod to take in a nice mountain view.

    - @18Watt ISRUThread here. This mission was done as both a Jool 5 and a Kerpollo submission. The mission began with a brute force launch and direct transfer to Jool. The mothership used wolfhound engines, which was good for TWR but slow when the ship was fully fueled. The ship flew first to Tylo, and after landing, the Tylo ascent stage would be reused for later landings. Next, the ship went to Bop to refuel, then to Laythe, where a staged spaceplane returned the brave Kerbonaut to the mothership. Next Val went to Vall, then the ship went to Pol and landed, before returning the crew to Kebrin, who parachuted to the surface of one of Kerbin's icecaps.

    - @OJT ISRU, Thread here. This mission was fully reusable* (apart from deployed fairings but we couldn't decide if that counted or not) and landed every component of the main ship back on Kerbin upon finishing the Jool system's exploration. The mission began with three launches, one for the mothership, one for the lander, and one for the SSTO spaceplane. Due to unfortunate moon placements, no gravity-assisted captures were possible and a retroburn was conducted. From there, a surprise Laythe aerocapture was conducted, saving much needed fuel. After the Laythe landing, the main ship flew to Vall, left the plane in orbit, and then landed with the lander beneath it and refueled on the surface. Next up was a Tylo landing with razor thin fuel margins, followed by Pol and Bop. It is worth noting that this mission did not repeat OJT's previous Jool 5 mission's Pol refueling process, in which the lander did numerous trips to the surface to bring tiny bits of fuel up to the main ship. With the landings complete and plenty of fuel to spare, the ship flew back to Kerbin where it landed piece by piece, with the lander being launched an SSTO parachute module. An excellent mission, and no doubt a fine achievement.

    - @kspfreak Video here. This mission not only visited the moons of Jool, Bop's Kraken, and in a rather small vehicle, but also visited every other moon in the entire Kerbol System! This mission's video is a fun watch, and ends with a fun paraglide back to the KSC. A mini grand tour of sorts, and very well done.

    - @JeDoesStuff ISRU, Video here. An SSTO submission! Coming in with a mass at just under 30 tons, JeDoesStuff showed off an incredibly refined ISRU SSTO by flaunting it around the Jool System. Included on the spaceplane are subtle but clever features to aid in launching horizontally, such as Vernier thrusters on the nose to raise attitude during takeoff, as well as a large landing gear that is only deployed to angle the craft. I haven't seen the latter of those additions on an SSTO before, so I applaud the ingenuity! The video this submission is contained within is also very well edited, resulting in a brief, yet concise viewing experience. If you're looking for a fun video to watch, or to see a razor-thin-margin Tylo landing, then this submission is for you. 


    Low Mass

    - @EvermoreAlpaca Video here. Mass of 6.2 tons. Spaceplane launch, gravity assists off Kerbin and Eve to reach Jool. Landed on Laythe with the same rapier used in the launch stage, returned to orbit with an incredible TWR, scooted over to Tylo where the most bare-bones Tylo lander I've ever seen was used to land on and take off from Tylo (saved fuel by having Bill push it to the top of the mountain), flew over to Vall where the landing was done using staged batteries and a single ion engine. The Vall lander (which was also part of the Laythe lander) completed the last two landings on Bop and Pol and returned to Kerbin using many more gravity assists before preforming an aerobraking, with Bill parachuting to the space center and landing atop the RnD.

    - @Alpaca Z Video hereMass of 5.8 tons. Vertical launch using a whiplash ramjet engine, which was staged prior to orbital insertion. Resonant orbits with Kerbin and Mun assists were used to set up a KEKKJ gravity assiste route to save fuel. Spider engines were used in a two-stage Laythe lander design to save weight, and EVA construction was used to rebuild craft to negate the need for decouplers or rebuild the craft (or get away with only bringing one chair). Landings were otherwise routine apart from an incident on Tylo where the lander fell on its side, requiring an intuitive solution to rebuild the craft in such a way it could use redundant engines as support pillars. The video is very well narrated and goes into much more detail regarding the craft's design and flight plan, I highly recommend watching it to get the full picture of this mission.

    - @camacju Video here. Mass of 5.2 tons (Current Record!). This mission not only shatters the previous record, but does so with an impeccably made video. Launch mass was saved in numerous ways, one of which involved using tiny flags in place of landing gear for the horizontal KSC Runway takeoff.  EVA construction was used to reassemble the craft(s) into what was needed at any given point during the mission. The vessels flown and techniques used are difficult to describe, so I highly encourage a watch of this mission to see some of the best of Kerbal engineering.

    - @camacju and @Ultimate Steve Grand Tour, Video here. Mass of 7.6 tons. This is a meticulously crafted and borderline perfectly executed low mass mission. This was not only a Jool 5, but also an entire grand tour weighing not even 8 tons! The video's excellent editing allows it to speak for itself, and I highly recommend you watch this mission to see perhaps the greatest low mass mission in the history of KSP.

    Low Cost 

    - @jinnantonix Video here. 34,663 funds. The thread's first low cost submission! Using a low cost launch vehicle and a K-E-K-K-J flyby route, the mission put Val and a fuel-tanker station in elliptical Laythe orbit. From there one lander tackled Laythe, and another tackled the other four moons, with an extra few stages for Tylo. It is worth mentioning that this mission used no electrical charge and relied entirely on engine gimbal and some RCS to steer. On the way back, a double Eve flyby helped slow down, so an aerocapture could be done at Kerbin, where Vall proceeded to parachute onto the VAB.

    - @camacju 

    • Mission here. 24,070  funds. This mission used a SRB powered launch stage and a terrier powered transfer vehicle to get the landers to Jool (after numerous gravity assists). A dedicated Laythe lander tackled the ocean-world, while a multi-stage Tylo lander tackled the rest of the moons, and returned the brave Kerbonaut Wildard Kerman to Kerbin. Before heading back however, the new space-construction method was utilized to steal a solar panel from the transfer stage, marking the first time this creative form of staging has been used.
    • Mission here17,635  funds (Current Record!). This mission is a more stripped down version of @camacju's previous low cost mission. This mission featured a visit to Laythe's ocean floor, and utilized eva construction to manually remove empty fuel tanks from the mission. Additionally, eva fuel tanks were used to refill the brave kerbonaught's jetpack to enable fuel savings by extended jetpack use.


    Low Parts

    -  @bayesian_acolyte ISRUAlbum here. A small, single stage craft comprising of 31 parts. Bayesian_acolyte said there could have been some part count improvements, but even without it the mission still did so much with so little. This mission shows just how far ISRU can be stretched, especially with that Tylo landing.

    - @Majk Thread here.  A simplistic Jool 5 mission consisting of only 30 parts . The mission began using a very basic launch stage, and flew to Jool using a long nuclear ship.  Lander reuse enabled part count savings, and usage of the nuclear ship as an ablative heat-shield helped return Val to Kerbin's surface in one piece.

    - @Majk Video here. Easily the most simple Jool 5 mission completed to date, accomplished using only 9 parts (Current Record!).  This mission started with the 9th part, an RTG, stowed inside the command pod before installing it in orbit. It is also worth recognizing that a clever method of timewarping in the tracking station enabled refueling to take place while utilizing only a single RTG. The submission takes the form of a short, concise, and wel narrated video, and I highly encourage giving it a watch.


    2nd Level

    - @jinnantonix ISRU, Album here. Used a big launch with a self-refueling vector-powered lander that made multiple Laythe landings and mined ore from every moon. Two kerbals were landed on each moon and the lander was recovered at KSC.

    - @Kerbolitto ISRU, Album here. Excellent mission done using two space shuttles :ocapable of refueling on moons. Absolutely amazing job. In all things I ever thought I would see happen in KSP, a space shuttle landing on Tylo was not one of them. 

    - @Marschig ISRU, Videos here. Not one, not two, but three ISRU planes flew to Jool and to all five moons on both the 3rd and 2nd levels. The SSTOs also visited Duna and Minmus in their missions before landing back at the KSC. Truly exceptional. This is the first time I've seen three Jool 5s all submitted at one time!

    - @PhoenixRise86 Album here. Used a mothership for the first part of the mission, then resorted to ions to get to Ike and Minmus, then safely back home. Also, this is the first 2nd level mission to not use ISRU. :)

    - @GRS: Album here. The highly anticipated Sheep v2 did not disappoint, and went above and beyond by visiting not just Jool's moons but also Kerbin's and Dres. Used massive nuclear boosters to get around the Jool system and the Tythe lander to get two Kerbals on every moon and Dres, before using the Sheep v2 to land the entire crew on Minmus and Mun. Spectacular!

    - @Xurkitree ISRU Video here. This modded mission utilized ISRU, a nuclear mothership, and eight aerospikes to land on all five of Jool's moons with Cerdrin and Lodous Kerman. Returned the lander and mothership to LKO where a separate rocket retrieved the crew. I highly encourage watching the video submitted, it is excellently edited and the music supports the awe of the mission.

    - @QF9E Thread here. This mission used a blunt-force approach by lifting off on a powerful launch stage, and made quick work of Jool's moons. The moons were all visited by one lander, which dropped various attachments that helped it land on some of the bigger moons. At the end of the mission, the three brave kerbonauts safely touched down in the ocean, and a BFR style spacecraft recovered the remains of the lander in Kerbin orbit for historical preservation. Truly an impressive mission indeed!

    - @Mars-Bound Hokie ISRU Mission here. Using the Anubis II SSTO, Tancan, Fernal, and Kenby Kerman flew to Minmus to refuel, then blasted off for Jool. After touching down on Laythe to refuel, the crew went for Bop, then to Tylo. After landing with no liquid fuel to spare, the Anubis II was refueled, then launched for Pol. After a risky auto-piloted landing, the ship refuel before bounding to Vall, where the crew had a group picture. Heading back to Kerbin, a mix of brute force and aero-braking was used to get the trajectory needed to get back to the KSC, and then the crew refused to ditch the plane and pulled off the legendary runway landing. 

    - @king of nowhere 

    • Mission here. "And so I completed the Jool 5 in day 383, 1 hour and 9 minutes of a new career" are the words typed by @king of nowhere at the end of the mission thread, and fundamentally capture the astronomical accomplishment documented within it. In a career save speedrun, it was decided to focus on a Jool 5, and the mission was optimized for time rather than mass or cost. The amounts of delta-v put into each maneuver to achieve bullet-like trajectories around the Kerbolar and Jool systems is simply jaw dropping. Over the course of the flight, the La coscienza di xenon and its landers managed to plant flags on all 5 moons within a 12 day window, which I don't believe has ever been done before. If you wish to see the chronicles of a one-of-a-kind, record setting Jool 5 mission, the flight of the La coscienza di xenon is the mission thread for you.
    • Grand Tour Mission here@king of nowhere's second Kerbalism Grand Tour, but with radiation shielding 3 times less effective,  bugs, life support issues, frantic crew members smashing fuel cells and dumping food overboard, and so much more! This mission chronicles the Nail  Bolt on its tour around the solar system, finding monoliths on every world and making it back in roughly two decades. This mission thread covers the begins, rebeginnings, redesigns, quick fixes, and compromises that took place  during the Bolt's journey not just to Jool's 5 moons, but to every other surface as well. This is one of the most thorough submissions the challenge has seen, and is a great resource for those considering Kerbalism entries of their own. 

    - @Lyra Mission here. A single launch mission! Using a spaceplane for Laythe, a notably slim Tylo lander (with a reusable upper stage for Vall), and an ion lander for Bop and Pol, this mission was a pleasant, self contained romp around the Jool System. One unique aspect of this mission I've seldom seen elsewhere was the use of claws on the nuclear mothership's outer hull. This allowed the landers to not need docking ports and attach to the hull like barnacles. A very clever, mass saving decision for the landers for sure!


    3rd Level

    - @iAMtheWALRUS Grand Tour, ISRU, Album here. Used SSTOs to launch the mission and used moon hopping to get around the Kerbol system. Very nicely done. Also, first 1.4 submission :D

    - @sturmhauke Album here. To put it in the words of the pilot them self; "A mostly reusable mission to all 5 of Jool's moons. Single launch SSTO carrier drone, with a separable mothership and 5 landers." Very well done and efficient mission. Used fuel cells to power ion crafts for Bop and Pol, sent a plane to Laythe, and conquered Tylo with a rocket lander.

    - @mystifeid Album here, ISRU. Used two launches to put a mothership and a universal lander into orbit. Then used left over launch stage to boost to Jool and then around the system until it ran out and was staged at Tylo. Bob landed on every moon, accompanied with a different Kerbal for every moon. Very nice mission, and even had the added bonus of a near KSC landing.

    - @PhoenixRise86 Album here. Used a single launch of pure rocketry, no jets, ions, or nukes used in the entire mission. This mission did the Jool 5 mission in style, with some of the most interesting landers I've ever seen, including an aerospike Laythe plane. 

    @Marschig ISRU, Videos here. Not one, not two, but three ISRU planes flew to Jool and to all five moons on both the 3rd and 2nd levels. The SSTOs also visited Duna and Minmus in their missions before landing back at the KSC. Truly exceptional. This is the first time I've seen three Jool 5s all submitted at one time!

    - @jinnantonix ISRU, Video here. Of all the Jool 5 missions I have seen in this thread so far, none treat their Kerbals better than Jinnantonix has. The craft was modular in design and split into several different arrangements for various landings, and came with a gravity spin for deep space transit. Very considerate, and very awesome.

    - @Grogs Album here. Two launches to build the main ship in orbit, one crew launch for realism. Used a giant transfer stage to get the landers to Jool. Chemical engines pushed the landers about the Jool system, with nine Kerbals in total being involved in the mission. Once the landings were completed the mothership returned to Kerbin where a fourth launch collected the Kerbals and returned them safely to Kerbin. 

    - @Pipcard ISRU Thread here. A well executed, eight Kerbal mission with one of the longest ships I've ever seen in this game. Excellent mission that toured the Jool System in an engaging thread. Mission was assembled in multiple parts, flew to Jool, landed on the moons (being sure to refuel on Bop and Pol when needed), EVA jetpacked off Tylo, and the crew was returned to Kerbin by a separately flown space plane.

    - @Kerbolitto ISRU Mission here, here, and here. Kerbolitto's second submission! Using a space shuttle with several surface experiments, a crew of eight explored the system. The Tylo landing was done with perfect margins, landing with no fuel left! This craft may also hold the record for lowest TWR launch of Bop in history, and an outpost on Laythe with a mini-plane was even constructed. Bob chose to stay behind and man the base while the crew returned home. Excellent end to an excellent mission!

    - @Ksp Slingshooter Album here.  Assembled the main ship using multiple launches, then flew to Jool, settling in an elliptical Jool orbit with some help from a few gravity assists. From there the landers detached and flew to their moons, one by one and completed their landings. Due to some unexpected occurrences at Laythe, the Vall lander swooped in and rescued the Kerbal, taking both back to the mothership. Without enough room in the command pods for everyone, two brave Kerbals rode back to Kerbin on ladders, detaching and re-rendezvousing during timewarp. A rescue craft was launched, and met the mothership just in time, with only three minutes to transfer the Kerbals before a fiery re-entry. Truly a Kerbal mission! 

    - @RoninFrog ISRU Thread here. Using the gloriously huge HMS Sauron, Jeb and 16 friends took to Jool in this massive SSTA. First they stopped at the Mun, then flew to Pol, then Tylo, then Vall, Laythe, and finally Bop. On the way back to Kerbin, time and fuel and the positions of the planets made a Duna landing prove itself most useful, before heading back to the Mun, and finally, back to Kerbin. This 1 stage mission has some amazing screenshots in its thread, as well as most amusing comments for each picture. If you're wanting to learn more about an ISRU approach, I suggest giving this mission a peak.

    - @OutInSpace Video here. Using a total of eight launches, this mission's mothership was constructed methodically, complete with an enormous pair of transfer boosters. After heading to Jool directly, the mothership flew to Tylo, Vall, and Laythe by itself, and sent an ion craft to Bop and Pol instead. After numerous attempts, the Laythe plane was finally able to show what it could do, and the 5 crew returned to Kerbin orbit, where they were picked up by a landing craft. If you want to see the nitty-gritty maneuvers used during a Jool 5 mission, I suggest you check out this mission's video. Its editing and methodicalness make it an unintentional flight-tutorial for getting to Jool. 

    - @Entropian ISRU Mission here. Using a 5 meter tank with 5 meter tanks strapped on the side and a large cluster of mastodon engines, the craft rocketed off the pad to Minmus, where it refueled and went off to Jool. Landing on Laythe proved to a close call, with ZERO delta-v remaining upon touchdown. From there the ship bounced to Vall, Tylo, Pol, and Bop, before making a rough splashdown on Kerbin. It is worth noting that the crew did forget to put a flag on Bop. However since every other mission criteria was met and the craft was landed on Bop it is still being counted.

    - @GRS Grand Tour. Mission here. This time with the Sheep v4 the Jool moons were visited again, along with 60 other destinations! Relying heavily on ion power, landing after landing was accomplished visiting worlds close to the sun, around Jool, and even outer dwarf planets. So many worlds were mentioned that the Jool 5 portion is only a tiny fragment of the overall mission. There is genuinely too much in that mission to describe here, so I highly suggest you check out the most expansive sheep yet's thread!

    - @s_gamer101. Mission here. This mission began with the launch of an enormous reusable launch system that placed the main ship in orbit. A trip to Jool ended with a fiery aerocapture above Laythe, where two of the crew members took a small spaceplane to the surface. After a tricky fuel situation in which drop tanks were accidentally kept as huge pieces of ballasts, the Tylo tug was used as an extra stage to boost the main ship. This proved to be enough delta-v, as once the landings were completed the ship cruised back to Kerbin, where they parachuted safely to complete the mission.

    - @AlpacaMall Mission here. This mission began with the launch and orbital construction of the KSS-J "Orca". Engineer construction added fuel lines and removed unneeded RCS thrusters, and the craft departed for Jool with a reusable lander upper stage, with lander stages for Laythe and Tylo. The landings were completed in the following order: Laythe, Tylo, Vall, Pol, Bop. From Bop, the Orca was left to serve as a relay station while the crew module left for Kerbin. The vessel landed with all the crew and 23458 science

    - @BeanThruster Album here. This mission began with the launch of Vapidity,  the mothership used during the mission. Instead of going to Jool, Vapidity made its first flight to an E-class asteroid so it could refill all of its fuel tanks (it launched almost empty to save weight). After flying to Jool, the first landing took place on Tylo, before leaving the engine nacelles in case later refueling was needed. Next, the last stage of the Tylo lander was used to land on Vall, then the lander flew solo to Bop where it awaited the rest of the ship. Vapidity took the time to take a spaceplane to Laythe, then went back to low Tylo orbit to refuel.  Vapidity met the Vapidlander at Bop, conducted the landing, then went to Pol to do the same. Vapidity returned to Kerbin before the crew landed using the Laythe spaceplane. In total, the crew collected 20113.6 science.

    - @RuBisCO ISRU Album here.  This mission began with a lot of mainsail engines to push the main craft into orbit, and delivered not one, but seven Kerbals to the surface of each moon.  The first visit was Pol, where cleverly built piston legs kept the refueling craft perfectly level. Next was Bop, then Vall, then Tylo, where a rover and lab were brought to the surface and returned to orbit (except Tylo where it got left behind). For the Laythe landing, the crew took down a spaceplane, as well as a helicopter and a floating lab with plane-refueling capabilities. The helicopter was used to collect science from the local area, and after being refueled, the plane returned to orbit. After the main ship was refueled on Pol, the crew returned home.

    - @18Watt ISRU , Mission here. This mission is nearly identical to 18Watt's previous submission, but now has accommodated a unique Kerbal for each moon, bumping it from a 1st to a 3rd level submission. Main ship refueled on Minmus before heading to Jool, refueled on small moons, and pilots Val and Billy Bobfurt flew each unique specialist to their respective moons.

    - @Krazy1 

    • ISRU, Album here. This mission was done with the Principia mod, which makes gravity and orbits behave more realistically. The spacecraft used was the "2 by 4", named after its two mammoth engines and four nervs. First the craft launched to Minmus, then visited a passing asteroid, then went back to Minmus to refuel, then shot off to Jool. After the Laythe landing, there was some trouble getting to Vall due to orbital issues. After Vall came a very bouncy Tylo landing, which was followed by a Pol landing, and then a Bop landing. It is worth noting that Bop is orbiting retrograde in this mod for orbital stability. After completing the landings and experimenting with weird orbits, the 2 by 4 traveled home, refueled on Minmus to prep for landing, and then touched down safely on Kerbin with its crew of 5.
    • ISRU,  Album here. This mission utilized an orange and gray aesthetically pleasing spacecraft. Once launched into orbit, the craft refueled on Minmus, then shot off to Jool where it landed on Vall, then flew to Tylo where it performed this landing, before nearly burning on Laythe, then finished up with Bop and Pol. Upon returning to Kerbin, some excess ore was turned to fuel to save weight, and the crew splashed down 10km from the KSC.

    - @Kimera Industries. Mission here. This mission's mission thread chronicles the Avocado on its journey to Jool's moons and back, using appropriately named components and landers. Due to its nuclear propulsion, the escape burn was split in two, though did not go gently into that good night, and upon arriving to Jool, took use of a convenient Tylo assist to go almost directly to Laythe. From Laythe, a lander was dispatched to Vall and Pol, then the entire ship reunited and migrated to Tylo where the landing was achieved on the fifth try. Next came Gilly 2.0 Bop, where an interesting SPOILER was discovered. Upon returning to Kerbin with little to no time for caution, the cargo container and its draggy friends kept the craft from overheating during airbraking, and the crew landed to live another day.

    - @Geryz MODDED, Video here.Pushing past 1000 tons and assembled over 8 launches, the Hephaestus ship was made to be flashy and ludicrous, and it does a good job at it. The mission uses kerbalism simplex to add life support, while radiations are turned off. An imperfect gravity assist from Tylo added inclination and complicated the mission. A nuclear-powered ion lander was used for the minor moons, its TWR barely sufficient for Vall. Hephaestus was burned in atmosphere during reentry, leaving behind only the shielded crew pod to carry the crew to safety.


    Jeb's Level

    - @Xurkitree Grand Tour, ISRU Album Here. Collected 19,711.3 science from Jool on a girl's night out mission with no lack of gravity assists. A note from the author said that the mission greatly improved their skills in KSP and proved that fact well with the insane gravity assists they pulled off. Also first Jeb's Level on the new thread yay!

    - @ManEatingApe Video here. And here. And here. And here. And here. And here. Collected 16,532.0 science from Jool. There isn't anything I can say about this mission except you need to see it for yourself. Exclusively low tech was used, and collected in space science from all biomes. This mission did the near-impossible, with primitive parts, and landed all Kerbals safely back on Kerbin.

    - @SolarAdmiral Video here.  Collected 42,296 science from the Jool System. Single launch on a cluster of three meter parts, before heading off to Jool. Started with Laythe first, landing using a floating platform. Science was collected with a small jet-powered boat. Next stop was Tylo, where a rover was used to collect science from many biomes. On Vall one landing was done, and a hop added to it before heading to orbit again. Numerous biomes collected from Bop and Pol by hopping around in their low gravities. Direct shot home and landed all seven Kerbals to tell the tale. Absolutely astounding mission!

    - @jinnantonix ISRU Video here. Collected 82,510 science from the Jool System. Single launch, one much smaller than you might expect. Used a plane to gather large amounts of science from Laythe, dove into Jool's atmosphere, grabbed science from almost if not everywhere, and even managed to use the Laythe plane as the final stage on the Tylo landing. Had an artificial gravity system to facilitate the kerbals, and landed back at the KSC. Honestly jinnatonix managed to do so much in this video I can't describe it all here so I suggest you just watch the video. Amazing job.

    - @GRS Album here. Collected 28,643 science from the Jool System. The long awaited Sheep mission that satisfied both the Kerpollo and Jool 5 requirements led by Simone Kerman that explored the Jool system and returned home Apollo style. The mission had a heavy launch and went to, around, and from Jool using a massive nuclear stage. The usage of the Scifi visual pack gave the mission a unique look as it took science from every moon (including Jool's upper atmosphere!) in style. Incredible.

    - @Jim123 Video here. Collected 8780.9 science from the Jool System. Single giant launch put a large nuclear mothership in orbit. Flew straight to Laythe where the landing was completed with a dual stage to orbit (and Jeb's jetpack). From there the crew went to Vall and landed, before heading to Tylo and dropping one of the most Kerbal looking Tylo landers I've ever seen to the surface. After Tylo biome hopping was used on Bop and Tylo, before a pair of service modules detached and went back to Kerbin, boosting each other home where the crew landed. Nice video.

    - @jost ISRU Album here. Collected 16940.2 science from the Jool system. Flew to Jool using a long nuclear mothership. From there an ion ore probe helped find ore on every moon but Laythe for the rocket lander. Laythe used a three seat plane for the landing, and even found a geyser while on the surface. Landed on Tylo with 1m/s to spare before refueling, and landed everyone safely back on Kerbin after leaving the nukes in a graveyard orbit around Kerbin. Excellent!

    - @Beriev Album here. Collected 49430.1  science from the Jool system. This entire mission was done in a 6.4x solar system. Launched off the pad with an absolutely enourmous rocket,  fittingly dubbed the 'Absolute Unit'. Used many kicks to get out to Jool, where the ship split up to tackle the moons. For Laythe and Tylo, ascent vehicles were landed separately, before the crew arrived on-surface. Later, both sets met up at Vall, then flew to Pol, then Bop, and then to Dres. After a fun journey, the Absolute Unit returned to Kerbin, and the crew landed safely. This mission has an incredible execution and design, as well as a well-captioned Imgur album. I highly suggest giving it a look.

    - @Pro100kerbonaut Video here. Collected 10238 science from the Jool system. This mission was done with a rather interesting, asymmetrically balanced ship, and had quite the bouncy ride. On Tylo parkour was done, on Laythe swimming. On Vall two landings were done, and on Pol and Bop the lander bounced around. This mission used a combination of a gravity assist off Tylo and a retro-burn to capture at Jool, and upon return to Kerbin parachutes were attached to the crew section using a klaw. A fun mission with great editing.

    - @king of nowhere  

    • ISRU Mission thread here. Collected 105136 science.  This mission was insane from its conception, with the goal to collect every single bit of science from the Jool system as possible. While this goal was not ultimately accomplished, the mission is still one of the greatest Jool 5 submissions I have ever seen. To collect science on each world, a durable lander known as the Dancing Porcupine was deployed and driven on all moons but Laythe. For Laythe, a spaceplane called Absolutely NOT Albatross was used to collect science from each biome. In fact, Absolutely NOT Albatross did even more than just Laythe.  Using a multi-stage attachment, Absolutely NOT Albatross visited the lower atmosphere of Jool and returned to tell the tale. The craft's brave pilot even took an EVA report while in flight before ascending. The main ship dubbed the Flying Christmas Tree, and was capable of refueling on low gravity worlds. Upon returning to Kerbin, a craft launched to return the brave Kerbonauts to their home-world. Having visited every biome on every moon, it is no surprise that this mission amassed more science than any other Jool 5 mission before it. I highly recommend viewing this mission's main thread. Amazing job king of nowhere!
    • Mission thread here. Collected 11395 science from the Jool System. The sheer amount of effort put into this mission cannot be overstated. King of Nowhere started this mission as a nanocristalline diamond caveman mission, which in short meant no contracts, no facility upgrades, no quicksaving, on career mode, while starting the save with severe limitations. While the mission ended up needing quick-loading, it still is eye popping to see just how much work went into it. Each launch (in the VAB) was limited to 18 tons maximum, so a work around was used by having docking ports around the base of the rocket, to which separate boosters would be docked using a runway-launched rover. This meant that many launches required multiple launches of booster attachment vessels before the rocket itself could attempt to leave the pad. After over 100 launches, the Navis Sideralis Neanderthalensis and all its cargo were ready, and the ship departed for Jool, leaving a most amusing pattern of drop tanks in its wake. Upon reaching Jool, disaster struck when the Tylo lander suffered an anomaly, and quicksaves were needed to complete the Jool 5. While at Jool, science modules were discarded after use because a lack of KSC upgrades prevented their resetting, and every aspect of the mission, from flying between moons to the landings themselves, were executed with meticulous testing and prior calculation.  I cannot possibly explain everything this mission did in this little blurb, so I highly encourage anyone who wants to see some of the best Kerbal engineering I've ever seen to check out the linked mission thread above. 
    • ISRU Mission thread here. Collected 142744  science (Current Record!) from the Jool system. This mission is perhaps the greatest Jool 5 missions to ever fly. A worthy successor to @king of nowhere's previous submissions, this mission collected practically every single piece of science that the Jool system has to offer, with only a few dozen science bits unobtained. In addition, the mission visited every single anomaly in the Jool systemperformed circumnavigations of every moon, and flew a two-crew craft into Jool's upper atmosphere to collect science, and deployed an aircraft carrier to Laythe. The mission's thread linked above follows the journey of the Flying Christmas Tree 2, a massive mothership capable of landing and refueling itself, Leaping Mantis, a rover designed for climbing steep grades on alien worlds, Tamarromobile, a larger rover for Tylo, Phoenix, the spaceplane for Jool, Absolutely Not An Albatross, an SSTO for Laythe, and Garibarge, the aircraft carrier for Laythe so that Kerbals could disembark from Not Albatross and collected surface samples from Laythe's ocean biomes. The mission began with Flying Christmas Tree 2 being equipped with the landers, planes, and aircraft carrier. Use this link here to see the majesty of Flying Christmas Tree 2 in all its glory -> (https://youtu.be/h61wplb0DRw?si=HlNYwxnYPkPaem2k). From there, it flew to Minmus to land and refuel, and then departed for Jool. The following efforts to circumnavigate all 5 moons and locating the anomalies require an entire thread of its own, requiring one to view and read the entirety of the mission thread linked above. Out of all the Jool 5 missions I have ever reviewed, none have exhibited such effort or gone to the extent shown here. This is not one of many Jool 5 missions, this is the Jool 5.

    - @OJT ISRU Mission thread here. Collected 26871.3 science from the Jool System. This mission thread contains some of the most eye-catching, visually stunning KSP screenshots I have ever seen in a Jool 5 submission. The mission itself was tested and proofed in sandbox, and consisted of a long, skinny mothership, a spaceplane, and an ISRU lander for Tylo. With the lander and plane hanging from docking points on the main ship, the craft boosted to Jool and used a Tylo flyby to capture. Visiting Vall first, the lander took around 100 days to refuel. The ship then flew to Pol where the relatively tiny lander (in relation to the mothership) flew to Pol's surface and back numerous times to refuel the main ship before it could head to Bop. At Bop a kraken was discovered, and on Tylo the crew found it refreshingly eventless. The last destination was Laythe, where the plane and lander were left in orbit so the main ship could return to Kerbin. A return craft returned the crew and science, and crew XP was had by all.

    - @Robin Patenall Mission thread here. Collected 61174.6 science from the Jool System. This mission began with the construction of the Emerald Star, a large and reconfigurable interplanetary vessel that required 17 launches to complete. Once built, the Emerald Star used Eve and Kerbin gravity assists to efficiently sling itself to Jool and started with Tylo. Using one of the Emerald Star's 3 drive cores to send itself down to a lower Tylo orbit, the lander successfully brought the crew to and from the Tylic surface. When the mission reached Vall, a magical anomaly was discovered, one which would prove to be only one of many odd discoveries made on Jool's moons. An SSTO found one on Laythe as well, during one of its three total landings. A monolith was found on Pol, and a deceased kraken on Bop, one which caused a crew member to lament their inability to bury it. Once the landings had been complete, the remains of the Emerald Star returned home, where it was parked in Kerbin orbit awaiting future assignment.

    - @problemecium Mission thread here. Collected 8755.7 science from the Jool System. This mission thread covers the finally completed tale of the Aletheia, a massive, nearly 1.3 kiloton mothership. With numerous cargo bays, it brought landers, an SSTO, a deployable space station, numerous pieces of scientific equipment, and two ARKS to return the crew to Kerbin if needed. Upon construction, Aletheia and its seven crew members proceeded to Jool, using 46% of its total fuel. The transfer section was left behind in Laythe orbit while the rest of Aletheia continued on. After Laythe came Vall, where one of the ARKS was used to refuel the Tylo lander to enable it to tackle Vall (the ARK was then joined to the deployable station and left behind). The lander then tackled Tylo, and was left behind for future use. Bop saw the discovery of a hopefully deceased Kraken, and Pol marked landing number 5. This romp unfortunately depleted Aletheia of the fuel sufficient to return to Kerbin, so the second ARK spacecraft brought the crew home safely, using a Mun assist to tweak its final trajectory. This is one of the more aesthetically pleasing Jool 5 missions, and done in career mode in a very well typed out and necromanced thread, so if you are a fan of large stylish motherships, I would recommend giving this thread a view.


    Gatecrashers / Honorary Mentions

    @JacobJHC Grand Tour, video here. Giant single launch craft, also visited every planet and moon from the OPM planet pack. Very big. Gatecrasher because crew hasn't landed yet.

    - @Fraus Mission here. There's nothing that can be said about this, other than that this mission definitely had more thought put into it than any other Jool 5 I've seen.

    - @cqIpb Mission here. This mission was flown on an Xbox, and pushed the console to its framerate limits! cqIpl was inspired to do a Jool 5 mission after finding this thread, and despite not being able to land on Laythe due to lander instability, still had a lot of fun finishing the rest of the mission, and took a few great screenshots along the way! As of writing this, cqIpb is still new to the KSP Forums. Welcome, we're glad you're here!

    - @Alpaca Z, using a craft built by @Lt_Duckweed (with permission) Grand Tour, ISRU . Video here. Using a rather simply built SSTA, this mission was a simple case of flying around the entire solar system and refueling everywhere. This craft utilized air-fans, ions, vectors, and nerv engines, allowing it to be not only capable of high efficiency maneuvers, but also those requiring high TWRs. A highlight of this mission was the strategy to use EVA construction to rebuild the back of the plane to enable it to land vertically on Tylo's surface. Why bring landing legs when you have wings that could do the job just as well? This mission's video submission is also of a high quality, so I recommend giving it a view. In all, the crew of three finished their grand tour in only 15 years and 117 days! Efficient and speedy :D Moved to Honorary Mentions due to the fact that the crew could not exit onto Tylo's surface.

  15. i'm not an expert on this, but it's generally accepted that the more mods you install, the more likely it is for the game to crash. especially for mods that alter the game significantly, like RO.

    easiest path is to remove it., maybe the game works afterwards, and you lost nothing. even if the game doesn't work anymore, you can still go in the game folder, take the save files related to your career (or challenge, or whatever you're doing), save them somewhere safe, and put them back in their folder after you reinstall the game - and the mods you had while it still worked. this should ensure you can save your previous games.

    another good tip is, make multiple installations of the game for different mods. i myself have 5 different installs. this way, if your latest mods crashes the game, you lost nothing.

  16. trying a sort of nanodiamond caveman in the whirligig world planetary pack. i call it nanodiamond because i have tech at 10%, though i cheated infinite money because i already went through the whole "make a crapton of easy, boring contract to gather enough money to run a real mission" before, and i'd rather cut to the interesting stuff. i also enabled saving and loading, because i can't consistently land on mesbin.

    whirligig world starts from the planet mesbin, a rocky giant with a very fast rotation. at the equator, gravity is 1.3 g, you need some 1500 m/s of ground-relative speed to orbit (thanks to rotation helping). but there is no atmosphere, so you need to rocket brake every landing. it's similar to landing on tylo, really; it requires a bit less deltaV, but more thrust. which is why i'm not even trying to make this without quickloading, landing is difficult and the slightest mistake will lose the craft.

    anyway, there are a lot less biomes available than on kerbin, and so i find myself needing to stretch the missions with limited techs. I don't have enough deltaV with a single launch, but i'm nowhere near close to unlocking docking ports. so I got creative when needing to give my ships a boost



    You don't have to be docked when you can embed your capsule inside a glove-like structure. I called this ship "poor man's claw"


    here testing, it works pretty well for deorbiting a crewed module after it run out of fuel.

    unfortunately, the test also showcased poor man's claw doesn't have enough fuel to land itself, after spending most of its allotment to reach Jeb. so I have to redesign it to jettison the tanks and engines, and send it up again; boost the module with Jeb in low orbit, then jettison its tanks and engines, and send up another poor man's claw to bring jeb on the ground.

    oh, and another for Val.

    on the plus side, next i'll unlock the stayputnik, so i will at least be able to treat the poor man's claw as expendable


    EDIT: I failed to consider that the pod to be rescued would not sit perfectly symmetrical. it was very hard, fighting against the control of an asymmetrical ship while trying to rocket-land on twice tylo's gravity. without SAS, because both my pilots were in orbit, waiting to be rescued. but after several failed attempts, i managed to crash-land in a way that left both pods intact.

  17. 4 hours ago, SolMonster3318 said:


     but i did just kill another 5 kerbals

    can't you reload the game?

    if you have decided to make a no reload career without having much practice, then a golden advice is: don't send a crew unless you really need to. in  a rescue mission, you most definitely don't need no crew. especially not a crew of 5.

    anyway, there are ways to rescue your kerbals, but the fast ones require some skill. namely, while your ship is still in kerbin's SoI, you can send another ship, with lots of deltaV, and aim to pass close to the first one. it's tricky because the game won't give you a close approach. So you have to take your original ship trajectory, decide on a position, for example mark a point where the ship will be in 10 days. then find a traectory with the rescue ship that will pass close by in 10 days. once you're close to the ship to be rescued, use the navball. it will take quite a bit of fuel too, especially to revert the trajectory after the rescue. if you accidentally stranded 3 kerbals on a kerbin escape trajectory, and then you accidentally killed 5 kerbals on a rescue mission, then you most likely don't have the skill for that maneuver.

    which leaves the slow option. your lost ship will go in solar orbit. just send the rescue ship in solar orbit to rendez-vous with it. it's not much different than doing it in kerbin orbit, it's just a lot slower.

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