Volt

Ahhh, relativity. The father of GPS and HYPE.

I disliked chemistry greatly towards the end of my time learning it... I also disliked sports... so whether my field is figurative or literal, I had it wrong. Physics is the one.

Wrong field. This is physics! In physics, n/0 is NaN!

In space? NaN!

Considering it's 20:30 here now... and I'm trying to reset my body clock so I can have mornings now the sun actually rises...

Broken things are bad. That means further from release, right?

Ahh, that makes sense. Not sure why it took until I got to transonic aeros before I started to wonder this! I need to get back into KSP... thanks, both.

Hey, not been playing KSP for a while as I quite smartly went and 'upgraded' to a 2.4GHz Core 2 Quad which can barely run KSP, so been waiting for 1.1. Also been busy with college, and I'm rather confused about something I've learnt in Aerodynamics. So according to my tutor, a tail plane functions by providing 'negative' lift, countering the pitch-down effect of the lift/weight moment. However, obviously, in KSP the wings appear to always provide lift in the upwards direction. When you add a tail plane, the centre of pressure moves aft, as if the tail plane is 'adding' lift. How does this work? Also, I apologise in advance as I'm sure you've probably answered this question to death, but finding information about complex topics in a 466 page swath of aerodynamics facts is not easy.

Ikarim, reproduction steps, screenshots (press F2) and logs. 'Some strange bug appeared at some time and a bunch of stuff happened' is no use to anyone and really frustrates modders. They've given time for you, give some time for them.

I believe the fuel tanks at the south pole base to not be working. Could someone confirm? I'm parked right next to them and when I click the Fuel Tanks, there is nothing on the facility manager window apart from the 'close' button. And yes, I have opened the facility.

Understood. I think I have to take to not reverting test flights so that my test settings can be saved!

Did you ever manage to test that fix? I'm just trying the changing dynamic pressures method. Edit: That seems to have worked! The first thing to fail is now my heat tolerance, not my pitch control. Do I need to change the values at the start of every flight?

Quick question about Dynamic Deflection. I've got a supersonic aircraft which is quite stable (constant pitch down tendency) throughout the supersonic region. Unfortunately, as it gets up to high speeds, Dynamic Deflection over-nerfs my tail surface, preventing it from compensating for the pitch down tendency. It's the only thing preventing my aircraft from passing through Mach 2! Is there anything I can do to fix this DD-wise? I'll post in the FAR design thread if not.

You know I had no idea that existed. I'll post next time I get a chance to get on the PC. Thanks!

For once I am here to ask for building advice! I've been studying subsonic and transonic flight but I still don't know nearly all I want to. I have a problem with my current aircraft; even after tuckunder, coming up as high as Mach 2 (I lost pitch control at that point) it continually gains more and more of a pitch-down tendency, eventually becoming too much to handle. What could be causing that? I was under the impression the major factor in loss of pitch control was only really a problem between Mach crit and just after Mach 1? Edit: Could it be crzyrndm's dynamic deflection? So the pitch-down tendency is staying the same, but the pitch authority allowed for my all-moving tail is getting too small to handle it?

Happy to help!

Those missing field exceptions are coming from Distant Object Enhancement, a mod I also had to disable due to bug spam. Also I think we came across tweakables causing constant voxel update requests, earlier in the thread. In that case I think it was tweakableeverything, though. Try disabling tweakscale and test? Otherwise the full modlist would probably be necessary.

True. It might be better to read the log yourself and try and work out what triggered it, maybe a single part or something you did.

Transient faults are always good fun. My suggestion as an engineer rather than a coder, in the case that you can't reproduce, would be to continue playing until you experience the bug again. As soon as you get the bug again, grab the output_log.txt from that session. That's more useful than repeated 'no luck' reports, even if it still has lots of confounders.

Working a bug over at the FAR thread which concerns KIS, I thought I'd cross-post it in case it's not Ferram's issue: Mods used: KIS, B9 Pwing (left installed, not used on this ship), KAS, FAR. For this flight I used infinite fuel and stuck something into orbit just for the test. Opening a pair of covered panels worked fine (image 1), rather than the 'shrouded' problem I had on my station, but that may have been a separate problem with PFairings. I then moved onto attempting to attach new covered panels and unfolding them. As expected, I was given a NullRef error and the view jerked to the side slightly and then returned. The panels refused to open, saying they were stowed, as shown in the screenshot (image 2): Images here output_log: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=00012855916305724492 Reproduction steps: Put a craft into orbit. Take a boxed solar panel from a KIS container and use a Kerbal Engineer with a screwdriver to attach it radially to the ship. The error will throw. Then try to open the panel. No panel! A quicksave/quickload will I assume force an update, which upon testing allowed me to open the panels I had placed.

I found with the latest dev version that the debug voxels took me down to moments of 'not responding', on my potato PC. That's the cost of that sort of tool, I guess. The game log is stored about halfway down the KSP_Data folder as output_log.txt.

Duuuuuuuh. Okay. Will do the same test as well as the B9 + KIS tests. Here we go with the tests. I'll edit each one into a spoiler on this post as I do it. (WARNING: LARGE IMAGES) First test was done with B9 Pwing, KIS and the latest FAR dev build (22/05) installed. Shows the same behaviour as roman0 observed, with only stock parts. output_log from this run: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=17260156481371657900 Reproduction steps: Build what you see above. Mk2 cockpit, 2 Mk2 fuel tanks, Mk2 bicoupler. Same setup as above. Just to provide full logs and screenshots. Images here output_log from this run: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=46524812811927565863 Reproduction steps: Using FAR and B9 PWing, build any aircraft using the PWings in symmetry. Add some control surfaces and you'll see the real weirdness. Interestingly, I actually made a point of placing one of the control surfaces from the starboard side and one from the port side, yet both still voxelise more on the starboard side while the main wing, which was placed from starboard, shows thicker voxels on the port wing. Mods used: KIS, B9 Pwing (left installed, not used on this ship), KAS, FAR. For this flight I used infinite fuel and stuck something into orbit just for the test. Opening a pair of covered panels worked fine (image 1), rather than the 'shrouded' problem I had on my station, but that may have been a separate problem with PFairings. I then moved onto attempting to attach new covered panels and unfolding them. As expected, I was given a NullRef error and the view jerked to the side slightly and then returned. The panels refused to open, saying they were stowed, as shown in the screenshot (image 2): Images here output_log: http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=00012855916305724492 Reproduction steps: Put a craft into orbit. Take a boxed solar panel from a KIS container and use a Kerbal Engineer with a screwdriver to attach it radially to the ship. The error will throw. Then try to open the panel. No panel! A quicksave/quickload will I assume force an update, which upon testing allowed me to open the panels I had placed. I'm gonna cross-post this one over to KIS to see if KospY has something. That's it, any more you need, let me know. I'm here for a few hours continuing the station build.

Oh, that's odd. Could you post up your modlist (Gamedata folder) or PM it to me? I'll do the same later on after college with my list and logs. (although I do wish KSP didn't take 5 minutes to restart every time I make a change). It might be a separate issue indicated by a similar voxel distribution, but maybe we can catch the problem.

Indeed. Through all the good and bad aero changes SQUAD has made, FAR (and NEAR) has been the only constant and a fine one it is. Those people who write two-line bug reports and then get ratty when you can't help them, don't deserve your attention. Why should you make an effort to fix a bug that's only been reported by people who make no effort to get it fixed other than just shouting about it?

I can only imagine how frustrating your day has been considering mine was bad enough, so I can understand that. When you say full logs, I assume the log since the last KSP start would do? My output_log is rapidly becoming cumbersome. Only reason I didn't post my modlist yet is because it's pretty long, and obtaining version numbers for all mods without an established standard for all modders is a total nightmare. But if it would help, I can post the list and full logs after I have a go at reproducing this in a fresh, sandbox copy with just KIS and FAR. I hope KIS improves rather than gets worse over time, because it's not really fair to expect you to insulate your code against muckery from other modders. The issue that's causing the shrouding is fixable by a quicksave/quickload, so I'll be using that method, and it appears the NREs are causing weirdness but not breaking anything permanently. Regarding the PWings bug, Crzyrndm - who posted above - is maintaining the code.