sgt_flyer

yeh, those tanks contains way too much fuel for a S-V lookalike you should consider emptying those tanks and clipping a few 2.5m tanks for your fuel needs (this way you won't have to worry about the fuel bars being incorrect due to partially fuelled tanks) and you'll be able to use smaller engines

Mmmh, if you activated the plane's SAS before decoupling the engines, don't forget to disable it for the engines

Could this help you Mulbin ? http://www.jleslie48.com/0206pr/saturn5allclean2.jpg

Well, between the tests me and giggleplex did, it seems close to the sweet spot - lower number of blades allows for a higher RPM (better possible top speed) but lower thrust. (And those engines are heavy : p) + higher rpm will make those engines more unstable. 4 bladed engines have less RPM, higher thrust but lower top speed (requiring more wings to fly at those lower speeds) When the differences in speeds are only a coupler of m/s, the inconvenients become to offset the gains The most effective way to gain speed is to have more torque to drive the engine - to overcome the countertorque created because the propeller wants to act as a turbine Basically, a propeller let on free run on a moving aircraft will naturally turn in reverse - when you approach your top speed, the forces between the 'turbine effect' and the generated torque tend to equilibrate.

ok, here's an experimental Torque engine with a dry bearing i tried to make, to find a way to limit the size of the thing compared to a landing gear bearing based engine. (downside is, it has higher part count, shakes more than a wheel based bearing (which eats a bit of it's top speed) and it's slightly heavier. (basically two more M-Beams of weight) so if people want to tinker with it, feel free here are the .craft files - you can open them in the vab or use them directly as perfect subassemblies - the root part is the ASAS at the bottom of the engine. there are two engines, 1 mounted with a counterclockwise propeller, the other one with a clockwise propeller. those are 127 parts engines - so multi engine aircraft will see their part count go up fast Counterclockwise Engine : http://www./view/ecgfgl3tlfcvga9/CCW_engine.craft Clockwise Engine : http://www./view/7gyke9qofo3nmxz/CW_engine.craft (if you need to mirror those engines, i'll advise to mirror a mounting point, then putting one subassembly at a time on your mirrored mounting points - less risks for a .craft corruption)

ooh welcome back Mulbin awaiting to see your next Munbug

Well, those are dry bearing engines (the landin gears are retracted in these ones - i just used these as guides because it's one of the few parts which don't get jerked around by torque engines they shake more than landing gear based bearings (and are a little less effective due to friction) those work approximately when i tested them on the K-25, because the fuselage buffered the vibrations. But two engines on the same wing is destructive (the vibrations from one will make the other stall - and with 12 asas units - a stall means rapid unplanned desassembly of the engine + the wing ) So i went with the original 8 asas units + landing gear bearings for it's higher reliability Plus, they are heavier despite their smaller form factor i'll upload those as subassemblies on the WIP thread if you want to tinker with them ^^ edit : ok, added a link to the new engine to the WIP thread. (though i seriously doubt i'll ever put it onto the K-29 again too unreliable when using two of them per wing - i never could launch all four of them at the same time - one would break before full power to the four ) http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66465-Work-in-Progress-WIP-Design-Thread?p=1393509&viewfull=1#post1393509

ok, i clipped in a few more delta wings, moved the main landing gear a bit backwards, reworked the underside of the tail, and removed two I-beams i forgot to remove after using them for positioning the bomb racks the K-29 can now take off at 38m/s, (roughly the middle of the runway) without needing the drop at the end of the runway anymore. (and it's a bit easier to fly ) (though you still need to beware the tailstrikes ) i replaced the .craft file in the main post - redownload it if you want the updated version , and i updated the first post http://www./view/rt3w7n41v3hff63/K-29.craft

Make sure the engines are turning in the good direction (the propellers have to turn reverse of what would be realistic to work at full efficacity - the mysteries of ksp's control surfaces ) - it can achieve nearly 40m/s on the runway (or in level flight) Basically, the propellers have to turn in the direction the sharp edge of the small control surface is pointing ( if you make them turn in the direction the blunt edge of the control surface is facing, it's efficacity will be much reduced)

Yes for high part count, i don't doubt so the engines on the K-29 are made of 116 parts - each. If you create an higher torque engine, it will have even more parts (and on a b-17 that'll make a lot )

Hello, i present you the K-29 bomber and the Y-38 Thunder. K-29/K-29B : The K-29B (the latest image in the gallery) has now replaced the original K-29 it's slightly heavier than the original one, but less parts (877 parts against 943 for the original), mainly because of the new engines. the K-29B is powered by four ASASx12 torque engines (which require the limiters to be turned on at low speed operations (take-offs and low speed manoeuvers) (basically, the bearing's brakes are activated with key 1 to limit the engines speeds) the bomber also have a fully working bomb bay, which can be opened and closed without problems. the bomb bay holds 12 bombs, in four columns of 3. (released two by two) operations : once the physics are loaded, use the parking brakes to stop the aircraft. press key 1 to engage the engines limiters. decouple two times to liberate the four engines. switch vessel to get to the first engine. when the camera is in front of the aircraft, the engines on the left should have their roll trimmed so they turn counterclockwise. (alt+q) the engines on the right should be trimmed so they roll clockwise (alt+e) (basically, the propellers needs to turn in the same direction the sharp edges of the blades are facing) once all 4 engines are running at full speed, switch back to the aircraft, and disengage the parking brakes. let the aircraft get up to speed, at least 36m/s before starting to pull up very slightly (beware of tailstrikes) pull up the nose a bit (just stop before the tails it's the runway ) and the aircraft will lift-off at roughly 38m/s. climb a bit before levelling to get your speed back before starting to manoeuver once at flight speeds, you can disable the limiters (again with key 1) to gain a bit more top speed. you can now start to manoeuver / trim your controls as you wish Bomb bay operations : press the key for your action group 2 to open / close the bomb bay. once the bomb bay is open, you are free to stage the bombs to release them Landings : Slow down the engines with the limiters (key 1) before attempting landing try to land as horizontally has possible, then brake to a stop (pull down during braking, to assist the brakes). once stopped, engage the parking brakes, and switch to each engine top stop them with alt+X Taxiing : trim the roll to 50% on two engines, for taxiing, with the other two stopped. Here's the .craft file http://www./view/hwgwddkp8fdcghg/K-29B.craft old K-29 version : http://www./view/rt3w7n41v3hff63/K-29.craft ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Y-38 Thunder : The Y-38 is a twin engine fighter, extremely pleasing to fly (also, with 409 parts, it's slowing down the game waaay less than the K-29 ) features two of my latest torque engine equipped with 10 dumb (really dumb ) rockets mounted in pairs. the new engine needs the use of a limiter (basically, the bearing's brakes) during stunts or take-off (else, at full unbridled power, the engines pop out of their bearings at very low speeds) - when flying at full speed, the limiters can be disabled for greater top speed. Start-up Sequence : enable the Parking brakes. Press 1 to enable the limiters on the engines. decouple the engines from the plane by staging once. switch to the engine, and disable SAS for the engine if it's activated (key T as usual). start trimming the first engine's roll to full (with alt+E or alt+Q, it has to spin in the same direction the sharp edge of the propellers blade are facing (counterintuitive given the direction of the props, but that's the most effective) switch to the second engine, and repeat the previous step, and trim the second engine's roll in the sharp edge's of it's propeller's direction. (the two engines runs in opposite directions) once both engines are at max trim, switch back to the plane, and disable the parking brakes. once the plane reached at least 35m/s, pull up gently to take off (not too much beware of tailstrikes) then, have fun ! if you wish to shoot some rockets, simply stage them http://www./view/4bdwcej4u3dotum/Y-38_Thunder.craft ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ a link to the subassembly of the engine can be found in this post on page 3 : http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92798-K-29B-bomber-Y-38-fighter?p=1397870&viewfull=1#post1397870

ok, after the experimental K-25, it's been itching me a lot i needed to build a bigger airplane (intended to be powered by 4 of the latest stable torque engines i managed to create) here's a WIP of the K-29 currently, the fuselage is built, with a fully working bomb bay (still have to undergo flight trials though ) the bomb bay house 12 bombs i still have a lot of work on the wings design (as i need to keep a 'cut' in the wings for the engines placement) edit : finished the bomber - it barely flies, but it flies and the bomb bay fully works (the torque engines TWR is not really helping, as you need a huuuge amount of wings to fly at low speeds ) http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/92798-K-29-bomber

well, they selected 5 potential landing sites and described what they need to check on each of them (currently, they are awaiting high resolution imaging of each site to decide). they'll have a ranking of the 5 sites by 14th september - at this point they'll likely know their primary landing site http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta/Rosetta_Landing_site_search_narrows

Well, it seems that the top speed is limited by - basically - the number of ASAS units making the propeller and the friction. I tried some designs with only 3 wheels on each end, they are faster, but unstable (whereas the 4 wheel design can be pushed to x2 acceleration - at least on a single engine and twin engine i tested ). With the 4 wheel design, a small single engine design with the 3 bladed propeller can reach around 40m/s with 8 asas, and around 50m/s with 12 asas. Quick note for multi engine aircraft - you should be able to add a few 'brakes' from the bearings landing gears to an action group - it will slow down or even stop the engine (if enough at the same time) without needing to switch vessels inflight. (Don't attempt to use brakes on a single engine design though as the torque is not cancelled ^^)

ok, here's what i made after building more stable bearings for small 1.25m engines (here, it's for a Torque based engine - powered by reaction wheels and RTG's - original idea from Giggleplex777, i mainly built a brand new bearing for increased engine stability) the K-25 twin propeller aircraft. (note, require quite a bit of pitch - though it can fly with only trims set, no need for SAS operations : activate the parking brake before attempting to start the engines. stage 1 time to decouple the engines. switch vessels to get to the first engine. with the camera in front of the propeller : Trim the roll (alt + keyboard roll direction key) to the maximum in the good direction (when your camera is in front of the aircraft, the left propeller should turn counterclockwise - alt + Q) switch to the second engine to repeat the roll trim, in the opposite direction (for the right propeller with the camera in front of the aircraft, press alt + E) (basically, it will make the propellers turn in the opposite direction of what you would normally expect on a real plane ) once all engines are running at full power, switch back to the aircraft, and release the parking brakes. (note, be sure that SAS is disabled on the engines ) wait until you reach 35+ m/s before trying to takeoff to stop the engines, switch to the engines, and press alt + X for each engine. top level speed around 50m/s. the standard surface controls in the middle of the aircraft are disabled, to prevent thrust coming from the infiniglide bug, the others are set to pitch / yaw or roll. it's just an experiment on bearing for 1.25m parts though so be careful to not gain to much speed while diving, or the engines might stall here's the .craft file for those who would want to test it out - or check on the bearings. http://www./view/b1dxxv61o04hj0f/K-25.craft

Well, if you want a 3d printed rocket engine, i think spaceX superdracos would be even closer to the title (they 3d printed at least the whole combustion chamber of the superdraco...

Thanks for the infos Claw that sure would come in handy mixed with o-doc's post

Current world record for longest echo seems to be 75s - in a oil tank in scotland. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2540379/Oil-tank-Scotland-sets-record-worlds-longest-echo.html They shot a blank for the test (the sound file is in the article) - that makes an incredible sound (almost like a rocket engine sound fading away : p)

@Rthsom yeh, it's already hard to do reliable 2.5m wheel bearings it's another step up in difficulty to minaturise everything horizontal bearings are another step up in difficulty (as you have to fight gravity too) one of the origins of the 'friction' with wheel bearings is the landing gear's suspension system - the wheel follows the low poly collision mesh of the part, and if pressed too much, the damper tries to 'force' the wheel out, which 'push' it away from the edges of the collision mesh. not enough pressure from the wheel, and the parts can fall through during operations

I'll see what i can do Giggleplex, unfortunately, the collision mesh on 1.25m parts and below is quite bumpy - and those landing gears take a lot of space

update on the helicopter - this new version is much more stable, with a new bearing. (i might make a dual rotor version to not have to use the vernors as counterotation - they limit the autonomy to 4 minutes ) as an added bonus, a free bearing like this one allows for autorotation to the ground when you run out of fuel (descent at roughly 5m/s - 15m/s if you apply the brakes to stop the propeller from spinning - although it will make the whole craft spin ) i added 3 disabled standard control surfaces on the tip of each wing of the rotor, it gives it quite impressive lifting capabilities - (it takes off at less than 50% power - with a full S3-3600 tank + a cupola underneath it)

Well, i still have my old Kliper + Angara if you need a multi stage launched spaceplane the kliper on A5 version has enough DV to transfer to and come back from mün's orbit http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/32484-0-20-Angara-rockets-family-%28rockets-in-kit-!%29

@Giggleplex so, you use reaction wheels torque to make your propellers spin ?

ok, based on Rthsom's idea, i tried to recreate stock Helicopters it seems we have a liftoff ! (though other than hover, it's not yet really manoeuverable ) a larger wheel allows for a bit more torque, (though we also have countertorque to cancel out) (also, the wing at the tip is stacked 3 times - they get much more lift at the tip) i used two countertorque jet engines here, to prevent the jet engine to create other undesired torques as with Rthsom's design, the thing can be throttled down here's the craft file, for those who would want to fiddle with the system http://www./view/x27xcwvh2u9lc95/Test_Helicopter.craft

That was a nice read o-doc just a question though - do you have a rule of thumb regarding the number of wing parts needed relatively to weight to get a correct lift - or do you do this by trial & error during the flying pancake phase ?