Death Engineering

Heh thanks. And it actually flies pretty good, too! The replicraft rockets on this thread are rather impressive.. so instead of trying to emulate appearance with the lifters, I've been aiming to emulate function. These are my first applications of the SLS parts and I've had to dial back the max thrust of the SLS parts substantially - those engines are crazy-powerful!

Death Engineering ARM-AAP Reboot - Entry III Step II Complete: Apollo 11: First Munar Landing. ALSEP and Munar Sub satellites deployed Apollo 12 - 14: Apollo 11 reference mission profile (G/H) Apollo 15 - 18: Apollo "J" mission profile Apollo XI closing in on landing site Apollo XV Site Munar Sub Satellite Deployment Apollo XI - XVIII with Hardware Catalog

Basically, I wanted to do some Apollo stuff with the SLS parts. Those craft you mention are probably closer to scale appearance, but are rather "overengineered". Death Engineering ARM-AAP Reboot - Entry II Step II Progress: Apollo 8: First manned Saturn V launch. Fly to the Mun's orbit, orbit 9-10 times, and come home. Must Use Free-Return Trajectory until in the Mun's SOI. Apollo 9: First Manned Flight of the LM. Take a Saturn V up with crew in the CM and have two crew transfer to the LM. Fly the LM, testing the Ascent and Descent Stage, and then dock back to the CSM, before flying home. Apollo 10: LM test in Munar orbit. Apollo X - Munar Orbit LM Test Apollo 8-10 Highlights

Leaderboard updated! Please try to avoid using MJ for flights where you are earning 'Mission' points, though. Good luck on your next steps!

Welcome to the challenge, TML. Looking forward to your new video series.

Death Engineering ARM-AAP Reboot - Entry I This is a stock parts entry to this challenge. Non-parts mods used: Environment Visual Enhancement, Kerbal Alarm Clock. Step I Minimum requirements met Saturn IB Saturn V CSM LM Step II Progress Apollo 4: Unmanned flight of the Saturn V. Apollo 7: First manned flight of the CSM. Saturn IB Saturn V Apollo CSM Highlights

The LOR missions in this challenge are based upon ideas brought up by the Gemini project manager (and my personal hero) Jim Chamberlin. In his proposal, Chamberlin laid out mission plans for a Gemini-based lunar landing which could have been accomplished as early as January 1966. In his proposal, the LM would be launched separate from the Gemini CM on a Titan II. The CM and crew would rendezvous with the LM after being launched on a Saturn C-3. For the puposes of this challenge, I combined those ideas with the mission profiles from BARIS for a Gemini LOR mission, referred in the game as: "Joint Lunar Landing LOR". For the BARIS player trying this low-tech and inexpensive approach to a lunar landing, they would need to develop the lunar TLI module which can only boost one spacecraft to lunar orbit: "A-KICKER Program Cost: 12 R&D Cost: 1 Payload Capacity: 1 Spacecraft TLI A booster package that can propel one spacecraft (capsule or LM) from Earth orbit to lunar orbit.Gemini/Voskhod, mini-shuttles, and LMs need a Kicker to reach lunar orbit. Kickers have payload dead weight at launch." Having a personal affinity to Gemini, I've played BARIS with focus on Gemini landings a number of times with success, including a May 1966 lunar landing "win" against the Soviet computer-player. However, that was with two launches and EOR, as BARIS tends to be very unforgiving with mission critical steps and cutting from two TLI burns to one TLI burn is worth spending the time and money to develop a lifter with enough payload capacity to lift the "B-KICKER", which can boost two spacecraft to lunar orbit. For those interested in BARIS, look here. There are other resources as well, including a freeware version called "Race Into Space". By Gemini to the Moon! Gemini LOR edit: BARIS mission planning screen. These images show step "J - Lunar orbit insertion" for the crew, and step "K - Docking" to the LM. On an earlier launch, the LM's equivalent steps are "D - Hardware power-on" (basically a mid-course autonomous systems check) and "E - Lunar orbit insertion". The crew launch mission begins at step "F - Launch". J - Lunar orbit insertion for crew only K - Docking in lunar orbit to the awaiting LM

I'm glad you brought that up! I can't speak on the other references to this phraseology you mention, but the mission profiles I described come from a PC game called "Buzz Aldrin's Race Into Space". This game which I purchased fresh off the presses on 5.25" floppy discs and is based on a board game, challenges the player with developing a space program in a race to a lunar landing. In that game, players have access to a mission profile where two launches of Apollo CSM and LM hardware are launched on two separate missions and rendezvous in lunar orbit. It is not an effective method to win the game quickly, but works okay if other hardware fails and causes reductions in safety (specifically, if the player botches the Saturn V development). I had to fish out my original docs on the game to get more details, but I have found supporting documentation while poking around on NASA's archives. Anyways, it's a game, ya? But thanks for your interest. Bubble un-impinged.

Gemini Style Direct Ascent Landing The inspiration for this challenge came from my attempt to complete the Doing it Apollo Style challenge using a Gemini style mission. Since the Gemini mission didn't really fit into that challenge, and I've always had a soft-spot for the Gemini spacecraft, I felt this challenge would be a good way to explore some real-world technology and how it could have been used in an alternate history. My attempt at Doing it Gemini Style: Primary mission objective (+20) Mission Direct Ascent (+4): Using a single launch, establish a crewed Munar orbit. Landing prestige: One Kerbal on the Mun (+7). Second Kerbal on the Mun (+4). Capsule Happy together (+3): Both crew members are never separated by more than 10km We're done with that (+3): Detachable support module (Jettison from command module before Kerbin landing at least three of:RCS cells, electrical systems, lighting, legs, retro package) Just in case (+3): Launch Escape System present Lifter Won't Apollo miss that Saturn 5? (+6): At least one rocket uses a 5 engine first stage and a 5 engine second stage. Lander Dropping some weight (+3): At least one of the primary or backup Munar surface return vessels leaves behind its Munar descent stage. Recovery Welcome home (+10): Both crew return to Kerbin We can take it (+3): Be able to safely return to Kerbin on water or land without damage. Crazy 60's details We are outta here (+3): The Launch Escape System ejects both crew in their own separate crafts. The Gemini had fighter jet style ejection seats. Total: 69

The goals in this challenge resemble the Apollo 15 mission, but I thought it was important to include a proof of concept for the launch escape system (LES) in the fashion of the Little Joe II rockets. I don't expect any extra points for it, but since I wanted to make sure the LES worked it made sense to replicate the original test vehicle for this concept. During my development of the Saturn 5 style lifter for this challenge, there were several "mishaps" where I actually used the LES and it worked perfectly.. but to use those examples as my challenge entry would not have make a lot of sense. Little Joe II/LES Test Launch At the landing site.. 30 points for the effort, +15 for landing accuracy. Full Mission Details: Doing it Apollo Style Challenge: Main Mission - 30 points Everything has to be started with a single rocket (no building ships in orbit or refueling in orbit) You have to fly a LOR mission (you need a Command Module [CM] and a specialized Münar Module [MM]) No mods! All stock, no Mechjeb. (Did Neil and Buzz land by auto pilot?) BYOR (Bring your own rocket) - The rocket must be your own design Goals 3-man Mission +10 2-man Lander +10 2-stage Lander (leave the decent-engine on the mün) +20 Main rocked aspargus'd? -10 (Wernher von Kerman does not like aspargus!) Escape tower? +10 Lander stored behind the CM during ascent +20 Lander tucked away behind some fairing? +5 Free return trajectory to the mün +10 Flawless landing (no parts broke off, Neil Armstrong is watching you!) +10 Got a Munar Roving Vehicle (MRV) on board? +15 After succesfull Mün landing docked CM and MM in Orbit (no swapping ships without docking them first) +10 MM disposed by crashing it into the Mün (remove Kerbal first!) +5 Plant flag on the Mün (no cumulative, i.e. two flags don't get you 6 points) +3 Spashing down on Kerbin (land on water) +5 Kerbal dies -20 Awesome new goals: Keep the CM pilot busy Deploy münar sub-satellite before returning to Kerbin +10 Points Landing accuracy Land within 100 meters of the NAM +15 I was roving on the Moon one day... Proper shakedown -5 points - Drive beyond 2.5 km of the lander MSEP - Mün Surface Experimental Package Science extravaganza! - 15 points - Deploy four experimental packages 2.5km from the landing site (and at least 2.5km from eachother) Score: 203

Early Manned Planetary-Interplanetary Roundtrip Expeditions (EMPIRE) - Venus (Eve) Flyby Bellcomm Inc., a division of AT&T, developed a single-launch mission profile for a Venus flyby in the mid 1960's. The mission would have been launched on a single Saturn 5 for the 1973 launch window. The Apollo CSM would provide the avionics and control for the mission while the crew would occupy a lab/crew quarters mounted on the top of the SIV-B. Instead of dropping the SIV-B as in typical Moon missions, the SIV-B would be converted into a wet-workshop. Instead of a lunar lander, which would not be needed for a flyby mission, Bellcomm envisioned an Environmental Support Module (ESM). This module would provide the life support and communication needed for the mission and would contain the materials needed to convert the SIV-B into the wet-workshop once the fuel had been expended. Apollo CSM docked to the Environmental Support Module (ESM) In order to save weight and reduce consumables needed, the power for the mission would come from solar cells attached to the SIV-B and would be sustained with battery reserves. Other modifications would be to use two LM engines on the CSM instead of the standard Service Propulsion System (SPS) and modifications to communication systems to support the longer duration flight. Shortly before the Venus encounter, probes would be released from the craft to perform orbital science or possibly even landers to scope out the atmosphere and diverse cloud layers. Probe in orbit around Eve Due to Venus' strong gravity, only a small burn is required at periapsis to assist the slingshot around Venus to push the craft's orbit into an encounter with Earth. In this exploration, the flyby altitude had to be quite a bit higher than would be done with a Venus flyby due to Eve's massive gravity. Also, since there isn't really a good analog for a two engine cluster that would be similar to a single Poodle, only a single engine is installed on the Apollo CSM. And since there is no way to refurbish a spent fuel tank into a wet workshop, the Kerbals will just have to make due with a single Hitchhiker pod. They didn't seem to mind. Apollo-style Eve Flyby Coming in the next AAP entry... Apollo Applications Program - Munar Applications

Using Apollo Hardware to Explore Mars Before ever landing on the Moon, the Marshall Space Flight Center already had visions of exploring Mars and Venus. The mission requirements would be to use as much Apollo hardware as possible, which meant that a landing was out of the question. However, a manned flyby was definitely within the reach of the current technology. Mars Flyby Lab/Crew Quarters Launching on S5 The plan would be to use an Apollo CSM for primary flight avionics and control as well as for the final approach to Earth and landing. However, engineers were concerned about keeping the CSM protected from micrometeorites during the flight to Mars and back, especially since the flight plan would take the crew past Mars' orbit and into the asteroid belt. Refueling the SII-B OLV The plan to keep the CSM protected during the flight was to keep it enclosed inside a pressurized hangar moored atop the lab/crew quarters. The CSM would remain there controlling flight activities until it was time to land. The crew would be able to move between the lab/crew quarters and the CSM through a tunnel between the hangar and the lab. As the spacecraft approached Earth, the crew would move to the CSM, undock from the flyby craft and burn to Earth orbit prior to landing. As the flyby approached Mars, the crew would deploy probes and landers to further explore Mars. Since this was to be the first serious exploration of Mars, there were a lot of unknowns regarding the Martian atmosphere and surface density. The probes and landers on this trip would largely be designed to gather information on the planet for planning of future missions. Opening the hangar to reveal the Apollo CSM In order to get the rather large, pressurized hangar and spacious lab/crew quarters out to Mars, a modified S-IIB was envisioned, called the S-IIB OLV (Orbital Launch Vehicle). Two of the J2 engines would be removed, leaving three J2's and a large docking port would be mounted on top to mate with the flyby craft already in orbit. An Apollo Instrument Unit would provide navigation and control to get the S-IIB OLV into orbit after which the crew on the flyby craft would use the Rendezvous and Docking engines to meet up with and dock to the OLV. Once assembled in orbit, modified S-IIB "tankers" would be launched to refuel the OLV. The MSFC planned for up to four tanker launches to refuel the OLV prior to Mars planetary injection. Once the spacecraft was assembled and refueled, a crew for the flyby mission would board the spacecraft to begin the trip. Mars Flyby Craft Ready for Departure Throughout the trip, the crew would perform zero g science and maintain the fleet of probes and automated landers. After the final course correction, the probes would separate from the flyby craft and make their own small course corrections for their Mars encounter. As well as pure science, the probes would help engineers design Mars-specific spacecraft for future missions by testing aerobraking and reentry shielding. Proposed Flight Profile for Mars Flyby In this exploration, only two tanker launches were required to top up the OLV and even then there was way more delta-v available than was required for this mission. Unfortunately, the sample return lander probe and one of the rovers were lost. The sample return probe was missing struts that were present in the VAB but for some reason were not included in the launch vehicle. Once the chutes opened, the craft tore itself apart and crashed on the surface. The rover problem was a design issue that prevented the rover from getting power once the batteries were drained. With the second rover, care was taken to keep the largely obscured solar panels facing Kerbol until it was time to land. Both of the satellites were launched and used aerobraking to get into Duna orbits. This type of mission was clearly designed with "worst case scenario" in mind and highlighted using hardware already available. However, this manned mission to Mars could have been accomplished by late 1975 and would have gathered valuable data on Mars as well as a pass through the asteroid field. Apollo CSM in the hangar Apollo-based Mars Flyby Mission Coming in the next AAP entry: Early Manned Planetary-Interplanetary Roundtrip Expeditions (EMPIRE) - Venus (Eve) Flyby References: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/03/apollotovenusandmars/

Apollo Applications Program - Skylab A/B and McDonnell Douglas' Phase B 12-Man Space Station This entry for the APP challenge looks at two derivatives of NASA's plans for space stations: Skylab B and McDonnell Douglas' Phase B 12-Man Space Station. The Skylab A mission was to be the first of two Skylab missions. The second would have seen only minor improvements but would have included more capacity for long-term duration missions. Phase B Space Station with Experiment Modules Still serviced by the Apollo CM/SM, a second Skylab could have incorporated the advanced Apollo Telescope Mount (ATM) based on an ascent stage from a Lunar Module. This ATM/LM was capable of carrying more science experiments and could carry more consumables to the station to enhance duration. Skylab B with enhanced ATM/LM The second space station, the McDonnell Douglas Phase B, was a design for a 12-man station. Launched on a single Saturn 5, the Phase B was designed for research in microgravity and featured docking ports for interchangable experiment modules. This space station would be parked in high orbit and could also be used for crew training and a port of call for trans-lunar missions. Experiment modules could be installed and replaced as needed, expanding the versatility of the station. Manned Orbiting Research Laboratory Concept Drawing An evolution of the Phase B station explored here is a design that never went beyond the sketchpad. Hardware specifics on the three-module station are lacking, but by adding a docking and logistics module to a Phase B launch could render an expandable space station taking only three Saturn 5 launches to construct. Phase B MORL Triple-Station with Big Gemini return vehicle Skylab A with view of ATM Skylab A and B Phase B Space Station Next AAP Entry: Early Manned Planetary-Interplanetary Roundtrip Expeditions (EMPIRE) - Mars (Duna) Flyby

This thread is a compilation of the various efforts I've made at developing and exploring unique Apollo-style hardware and missions. Many of these are speculative in nature and follow "alternate history" styled development. Original posts can be found on the Beyond Apollo: AAP challenge and the Doing it Apollo Style and Doing it Gemini Style - An Alternate History Mun Mission challenges. Apollo Applications Program - Exploring the "Big Gemini" and LORL This post explores the aspects of the Apollo Applications Program (AAP) that incorporate the "Big Gemini" and the Large Orbiting Research Laboratory (LORL). Based on the Jim Chamberlin design of the original two-crew Gemini spacecraft, the Big G would use an evolution of the Gemini avionics and combined designs of both Gemini and Apollo spacecraft. The idea was to bring large crews and supplies to an orbiting space station. Design plans included crews from 6 to 12 in a single launch and was the first craft designed to have a reusable crew cabin. Big Gemini with S IV-B The Big G was not intended for Lunar missions which meant it did not require any more delta-v than would be required to deorbit from the space station. Since it did not require a Saturn 5 to launch, the Big G could rely on other proven low-cost lifters like the S1-B or a boosted Titan III. In this exploration, the Saturn S1-B lifter is the primary launcher for Big G missions. The idea of the LORL was to place a large crew aboard a space station that was designed to support multiple docking ports and would be re-crewed with "taxi" style launches using the Big G. The initial LORL missions would have been launched with two Saturn 5 launches and assembled in orbit. All other resupply missions would have been performed with the S1-B, leaving the remaining supply of Saturn 5 rockets for Lunar missions. However, since the LORL required two Saturn 5 rockets to be assembled, how could NASA launch the LORL without taking away any Saturn 5's for the Lunar program? Large Orbiting Research Laboratory Docked with Two Big G's What if Apollo 8 and Apollo 9 were done with S1-B rockets? Although a very powerful and reliable rocket, the Saturn 5 was also the most expensive, by far. In comparison, the cheap and plentiful Saturn S1-B used existing hardware dating back as far as the Mercury program and shared its second stage with the Saturn 5's third stage, enhancing economy. Apollo 9 Docked with "Spider"'s Ascent Stage Apollo 8 was a Lunar orbit test of the Apollo command module (CM). It also proved the S IV-B stage was capable of a Trans-Lunar Injection with a crewed Apollo CM. Apollo 9 was a test of the Lunar Module (LM) and was performed in low Earth orbit. In order for Apollo 8 and Apollo 9 to have been accomplished with the S1-B rocket, several parameters would require adjustment: Apollo 8 would use the "Apollo A" configuration of the CM. This lighter version of the CM could be used as there was no requirement to support docking and the CM engine didn't need to carry the extra delta-v to carry around the LM and perform rendezvous maneuvers. Apollo 9 would be conducted in two launches. The first would launch the LM and the second would carry the CM and the crew. Since rendezvous and docking with the LM was a key part of this mission, a two-launch profile fit the mission requirements perfectly. Apollo 9 LM Launch If Apollo 8 and Apollo 9 were launched with Saturn S1-B's, the LORL could have been a reality in the mid 70's, with continuous crews of 10-20 people arriving and departing on Big Gemini spacecraft. This could have been accomplished in parallel to the Apollo Lunar program, without using any hardware from the Lunar program, and would have created the first permanent outpost in space. Apollo 8 "Earthrise" The Big G and the LORL The version of the Big Gemini explored here crews a maximum of 7 and is capable of multiple recovery options including abort procedures and supporting land or water landings. Although not available in KSP, the Big G would have used a parasail and would have navigated pinpoint landings. The Big G used a unique method of docking by having its docking port on what is traditionally the bottom of the spacecraft instead of the top. Once the mission involving docking is complete, the docking port is jettisoned revealing the deorbit engine. After the deorbit burn is complete and reentry is imminent, the retro package and avionics package can be jettisoned for landing. Big Gemini Jettisons the Retro Package The type of LORL explored here is the zero-g type, although rotating designs to simulate gravity were also explored. This LORL is equipped with an Apollo Telescope Mount and has two open docking ports when the telescope is installed. It was launched in two parts: the first was the crew cabin and was sent up with a Big G as the CM aboard a Saturn 5. The second launch carried the avionics, communications array, solar panel and a station-keeping engine and was launched under an Apollo CM. Once the LORL was assembled in low orbit, the Apollo CM engine was used to boost the LORL to a stationary orbit, where it would remain. The Apollo Telescope Mount was moved to its active position once in its final orbit and two Big G CM's were docked to the LORL. Continuous crew missions could be sustained indefinitely for the lifespan of the LORL. Completed LORL in Synchronous Orbit Conclusion The Big G and the LORL would have been a relatively low cost approach to a permanent space station. The crew capacity of some Big G's were huge. Some mock-ups of the the Big G show seating for 20 crew, often with everyone having their own ejection seat mechanism. The LORL was equally spacious and could potentially accommodate 20 crew of its own. Smaller, cheaper space station designs were being pitched that had shorter life spans, but could be launched on a single modified Saturn 5. And, since the smaller space stations couldn't support the massive crews that the Big G could support, there was no reason to pursue the Big G. At a time when funding was already being cut, the Big G and the LORL were history by 1970. More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Applications_Program http://www.astronautix.com/craft/bigemini.htm http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apolloa.htm Big Gemini LORL Apollo 8 and Apollo 9 Alternate Missions

Nice to see your Gusmobile back in action! Your craft has awesome replicraft look, and on stock parts. Cool. Perhaps your blocked door was a part placement thing? I recall my own attempt at this challenge had multiple bugs due to part placement. Anyways, great entry.. updated OP. edit: Actually.. just looked again at your entry and see that you had both pilots on the Mun, so not a placement thing.

Death Engineering Presents.. Unlocking BTSM's Tier 1 - 7: Since the botched Duna sample return mission cost many days, its going to be hard to get back on track by late-game. Currently, I have enough science points to unlock 4 nodes in Tier 8, but holding back on that until I can get another Duna sample return mission underway. By then, Gilly and Eve missions will be complete and should be able to unlock most of Tier 8 in one swoop. Sending a probe down to Kerbol low-space and harvesting Mun and Minmus surface samples have helped a lot with stockpiling science points, as did a rather bold move to launch a single Kerbal on a Minmus flyby (prior to the landing and before life-support recycler was unlocked) which also dipped, albeit briefly, into interplanetary space before turning back and heading home. Tier 3 rocket getting Biome Hunter I This rocket is capable of getting into space, barely, in order to earn enough points to get "Biome Hunter I". Direct-ascent Minmus Landing Didn't need to bring three crew along, but helped make the mission interesting. Reusable Mun Lander and Mini Space-station Lander and mini station are launched ahead of the crew. With a crew of two Kerbals in a CSM on a separate launch, the lander can support at least 5 landing and return missions to the Munar surface before exhausting supplies on the station. Tier 1 - 7 Highlight Album

Indeed that is booking it across the surface! That would make good video...

Yeah that's no problem. Something out of your control sounds glitched.

Cool WooDzor, you're on the scoreboard! The only difference between the Block I and Block II Orion is that the Block II has slightly more ÃŽâ€v. From my Konstellation Space Program: [TABLE=width: 100%, align: left] [TR] [TD]Orion 5 Block I[/TD] [TD]Orion 5 Block II[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Thanks for the progress update! Much progress... ...and even more progress! And another happy skycrane landing. Very nice! Good thing there's no wind up there.. Leaderboard should be updated for all, but let me know if I missed something!

What part sounds "horrible"? If you didn't like how the challenge is designed, I'm always open to feedback. If you're not keen on BTSM as a mod, well, not much I can say about that except BTSM isn't for everyone. It makes major changes to the game and pretty much precludes using other mods (except visual), which turns a lot people away from BTSM.

Konstellation Space Program with SLS Components -- Program Update Two Design Points Heavy Cargo Lift Vehicle (Ares V) Five or six liquid engines on first stage (+3) Does not jettison any radial liquid tanks/engines (+2) Uses and jettisons at least two solid fuel boosters on first stage (+1) Two stage rocket to LKO: After the first stage is dropped, the second stage (EDS), carries payload to orbit (+2) Can carry the Earth Departure Stage (EDS) and Orion BLock 1 to low orbit without using any fuel from the EDS (+1) EDS Bonus: Second stage can put Orion Block 1 into Munar free-return trajectory (+2) 11 points on this update + 25 = 36 Mission Points Using an Ares V and EDS, send an un-Kerballed Orion spacecraft into a free-return trajectory orbit to the Mun and perform a high speed re-entry test. Re-entry g-force must exceed 9g's (+2) Use an Ares I in at least one Munar mission (flyby, orbital or landing) (+1) Use an Ares V in at least one Munar mission (orbital or landing) (+2) 5 points on this update + 5 = 10 Ares V carrying EDS and Orion 6 Block I to LKO Program Update Album

Konstellation Space Program Redux Completed the Ares V Heavy Lifter and performed several tests. Heavy Cargo Lift Vehicle (Ares V) Five or six liquid engines on first stage (+3) Does not jettison any radial liquid tanks/engines (+2) Uses and jettisons at least two solid fuel boosters on first stage (+1) Two stage rocket to LKO: After the first stage is dropped, the second stage (EDS), carries payload to orbit +2) Can carry the Earth Departure Stage (EDS) and Orion BLock 1 to low orbit without using any fuel from the EDS (+1) EDS Bonus: Second stage can put Orion Block 1 into Munar free-return trajectory (+2) Design: 36 Mission: 10 This Ares V is capable of lifting 85t to LKO which will be more than enough to support the Altair and Duna lander. Seen on the pad here with 83t payload, the rocket was also used on a Munar flyby proving mission.

I like your 2*Irfan Compact Outpost.. is the massive Science Lab heavy enough to avoid being a little tippy? Curious to see how you're landing that, too! I've got you at 52 Design and 26 Mission points.. that look correct?

Great question. The Ares V was intended to be a boosted single stage to orbit. Sometimes this is called a 1.5 stage, sometimes 2 stage. To get maximum points, the Ares V liquid and solid engines fire at launch. The solid engines are jettisoned when they flame-out and the original 5/6 engines can push an EDS and an Orion Block I into orbit. The EDS engines can either light up once in stable LKO and carry the payload on the first leg of the mission, for lower mass payloads like the Orion Block I, or the EDS stage can also be used to boost heavier payloads into LKO before it is used to carry the payload on the first leg of the mission. To get maximum points, the EDS not only needs to remain unstaged until LKO is established but also needs to be able to push an Orion Block I into a Munar free-return trajectory. I hope that helps!

Hello WooDzor.. Those are beautiful replicraft and would really like to see them in a full "Constellation Space Program" challenge submission. However, I've just added a "Mars Direct" sub-challenge for the Duna landing missions only. If you choses to submit just the sub-challenge Duna missions, please do so. If you want to complete a submission, it should include the Space Station and Munar missions as well as developmental missions. I see you have an Orion craft docked to the Copernicus so we're just looking for Altair and Space Station missions. The max points for this sub-challenge is 30 and all previously submitted entries qualify. NEW: There is a new rules sub-set for anyone wishing to develop only the Mars/Duna spacecraft and carry out the "red planet" landing missions. See "Mars Direct Challenge" below. All previously submitted entries already qualify. Mars Direct Challenge (Stand-alone challenge scoring for Duna Landing Missions only): Duna Lander Design (Mars Direct) Lander supports 4 crew (+4) Kerbin Return Vehicle capable of Kerbin return with either direct ascent to Kerbin or Duna Orbit Rendezvous with Kerbin return stage (+3) Rover bonus: Bring at least one rover with seats for at least half (round up) of the lander crew (+3) Addition rover: Bring a second rover (same or different than first rover) (+1) Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with either the Kerbin Return Vehicle or the Duna lander (+2) Duna Mission - Orion/Ares I/Ares V/Duna Lander Land an un-Kerballed Kerbin Return Vehicle on Duna. Can be either Duna-Kerbin direct ascent capable or dock with an orbiting Duna-Kerbin return stage (+4) At least 4 Kerbals pass withing 5000km of Duna (+2) Land at least four Kerbals on Duna within 10 km (100 km if by rover) of the above Duna lander. To earn these points, the un-Kerballed lander above must be landed and remain powered. Successful landing must take place before the landing crew has committed to Duna re-entry (+5) Each landing crew over 4, up to 6 crew maximum (+1 each; max +2) Return the Duna landing crew and any remaining Duna orbiting crew to Kerbin (+4)