Patupi

OK, quick post BEFORE I read Mekan1k's post (Looks good! ) Technically there can't be such things as anti-gravitons, but there is something that is technically negative mass. When we measure 'zero' energy in the universe it isn't actually zero. There is a seething mass of energy present everywhere called the quantum foam (or zero point energy) that is responsible for some wierd stuff (spontaneous creation/destruction of matter/anti-matter pairs being one). If you close an area of space off, limiting it's volume, the frequencies of energy are limited to wavelengths of 4x the distance of seperation. This means that not all of the 'zero' level energy can exist, so we actually have, as we measure it, negative energy. As far as I know it's a bit of a stretch to really call it negative energy, but it is a real phenomenon. Thus if you can have negative energy, you can have negative mass, via Einstein. Anti-gravitons? As I said, so far as I know not possible, but... Who knows? Oh, and Calkhi? Black holes definitely have mass. Only the information about what went in is lost as matter goes inside the event horizon... and some recent theories are even suggesting that isn't quite true either. It seems that event horizons might (stressing the might here) not be as fixed as we thought.

KAS docking struts, or quantum struts (or the strut gun from the same pack) would strengthen the docking connection up sufficiently. Or are you specifically attempting a pure stock system?

I'm not actually sure why Jeb wouldn't let Neil be rescued. Ned could have got out, grabbed Neil, and even given Reactor A a quick kick in a few minutes, no where near any serious dose. True, even small amounts of radiation at that level could be nasty, but doubtful life threatening.

I just imagine you poring over reports, sheets of statistics and blue-prints before posting one of these NathanKell... Then I realise nowadays that would all be gleaned via the web. Doesn't quite have the same mistique, but still love the amount of effort you put into the realism of these. Have some rep

Awwww, and I had all the signs, banners and 'Save the Kerm' stuff all ready for the march too! *sulks*

For those that are interested I didn't use Joint Reinforcement mod to launch this rocket. Though I did install it some time later. I think it was about one or two missions after the Jool One. Mainly to try it out Hadn't used it before. Pilot Exchange Bob looked out through the small windows the base and smiled. Things were going well for once. The government representatives were gone. Dansey was off 'playing with the rover' somewhere, and Dunkel said he'd finally found where the squeak above the command pod was coming from. He was up in the crawl-space now with a welder trying to iron it out. "Er... Bob, sir?" Turning Bob saw Seanbur at the entrance to the command pod. "Seanbur, haven't seen you in a couple of days. How's life on the Mun treating you?" "Oh, well sir, very well. I... well, I've been doing some research, and cross correlating from the adaptive filtered sensors here, the Melvey sats, the Diego Ring observatories and twelve of the..." "Seanbur... what's up?" Bob interrupted. Sometimes Seanbur got into a rut and wouldn't shift until you practically kicked him. "Oh, yes... well, I think I know what happened to the docking computers." Bob sat up straight in his chair. "Really? What is it? Defective components? That's what Dunkel is saying. He swears he's going to rip whoever shipped them a new one. A new what I didn't ask." "Right, of course sir... but no, that's not it. The components were stressed, but I think all of that was from the physical damage after the incident. No, the cause was Kerbolar." "Excuse me?" Seanbur shuffled in nervously and put a laptop down on the desk in front of Bob. Shown on the screen was a representation of something Bob recognized. The Melvey belts. "OK, magnetics. I get it. You're saying things got fried on our way from LKO to hear in the belts?" "Yes, but that's the point. We've known about them for ages and rated all parts outside the faraday cage of the hull to withstand the magnetic strength we've charted. But it's changed. It looked like we were lucky. Just after we got to The Mun the magnetics reached a peak, then settled down again. If it hadn't settled quickly the replacement drone that was sent would have been fried too." "That's incredible! I didn't know the Melvey belts changed like that?" Seanbur paused for a moment, licking his lips. "No... they don't." "I'm sorry, what? But you just said..." "They don't normally." Seanbur interrupted "But I don't think it's the belts themselves. I think this is similar to a phenomena I witnessed during my trip to Minmus. The magnetic fields there became lobed, sending peaks of magnetic strength out at different amplitudes. I haven't worked out the data yet, and I may have to wait for another anomaly to turn up to properly chart it. Somehow the sun is affecting our magnetic fields in intense and unusual ways. We need to know more before we start exploring beyond the Kerbin system." "It's a little late for that Seanbur. Jool One has launched and is on it's way here to refuel and change pilots. I don't think they're going to change their minds if you don't have something concrete. Do you think the ship is in danger out there?" "I... I don't know. I doubt it, we've only had two recorded events and both seemed focused on planetary bodies. Even though this is a stronger one I..." "Stronger? I thought that when you went through the last one there was a danger of radiation exposure from magnetic focusing? Something to do with the Kerbolar wind being channeled? We've had no deleterious effects since then and it's been a month and a half. I think we'd have seen illness or something showing up in the medical checks if it was serious." "Well it was serious, but this ship is far better shielded than Minmus One. We were lucky sir." Bob sat back, pondering while he watched Seanbur's display. "How long do you think the period of danger is? If these events are focused around the Kerbin system at least then Jool One will soon be outside the effect, right?" "That's the point sir, we don't know. We barely have any data from beyond the Kerbin system. Four satellites and the Duna mission. That's it! We can't be sure these events are all that's out there. What if they're struck while the crew is in hibernation? The automatics won't know what to do with events that weren't programmed into them and the time delay will get significant as they get further from Kerbin. Mission Control may not be able to save them!" "OK, calm down Seanbur. I know this is nasty, but what's the chance it could happen?" Seanbur's face seemed to crumple. "I'm not saying we ignore this! Oh heck no! But Seanbur, so far we have no real proof. We need to tell the crew of Jool One and Mission Control, but I think things are just going to have to just play out." "I... I understand sir. I just hope the crew of Jool One don't regret it." *** "Third stage at nine percent... and cutting thrust." Jedwig said calmly as he flicked switches almost without looking. Damn he was good at this! "Engaging Third stage remote control and.... Jettisoning." A clunk ran through the ship as the last launch stage separated and Jedwig warmed up the Main drives. "Um, is it supposed to sound like that?" Lolorf said nervously. "Oh yes, in fact for stage separators that's fairly quiet. You don't tend to notice on the way up since the sound of the rockets muffles it out... or you're too deaf from listening to the rockets to hear it after." Jedwig chuckled. "Don't worry, and this one isn't going to be debris either. We separated before the fuel was gone so we could do this." Jedwig engaged the secondary control console on the left and a few monitors lit up showing views from the cameras on the stubby third stage, and one view of it from this ship's rear view camera. "There she is. Now... engaging torque systems..." the third stage spun slowly behind them till it was at ninety degrees to them. "Firing short burst." The engines on the separated booster lit once more and she slowly slide sideways, the engines cutting out in a couple of seconds. Once it was no longer behind them, but instead off to one side, Jedwig rotated it once more so it was pointed away from them. "And, retrograde burn." He said as the engines lit again, more strongly. Lolorf and Rodsy watched as the booster sped off into the distance, the monitor beside showing an orbit plot based on inertial guidance info from the booster. "That's how you dispose of a booster!" Jedwig said triumphantly. "Very good Jool One, would you mind setting up for the Munar burn now?" Gene's voice said through the ship's speakers. "Your wish is my command Flight." Jedwig said, showing off by loading the course he'd already plotted (Well, checked from Telemetry's plot at least) in while grinning and staring at Lolorf, not even looking at the board. "Engage in... Five, four, three, two, one... Ignition!" He did at least glance at the screens just before hitting the engine ignition switch. He wasn't quite that stupid. Still, Lolorf stared panic stricken for a few seconds, worried his commander had gone insane! Immediately the Poodle engine beneath them lit and slowly the second Kerballed interplanetary ship set sail, though at the moment heading for it's refueling rendezvous at the Mun. "We'll rendezvous with Jeb at fourteen hundred hours and twelve minutes Flight. Meanwhile I'll be reviewing the VKM Two's control systems with Lolorf. While we have the time." Lolorf groaned and got his manuals out, again. This would be a long trip. *** "Nearly down Flight." Jeb muttered, more focused on landing than communications. Slowly his rather familiar pod settled to the ground once more and he started warming up the mining equipment. "So, ETA still good for the Rendezvous Flight?" "Yes VKM Two, looks to about quarter past two now, but still on profile." "I'll make that no trouble." Jeb said with a grin. "Drills biting now.... yup, we got green stuff!" Dials spun as Kethane started filling the tanks. He began the rather boring step of warming up the converter and getting rocket fuel and oxidizer flowing into the tanks. Over the last month and a half he'd been doing a lot of fueling missions, mostly for the Munar transport when they didn't make the trip quite as efficiently as planned and didn't have enough fuel to land back at base. The trip to Kerbin and back took a lot of the fuel and was fairly difficult to do it with full tanks from the surface of the Mun and back again. But that was what this ship was here for. Unglamorous perhaps, but fun, and he got to Munwalk as often as he wanted! This was the life. "I'll be done here soon Flight. I'll let you know when I lift off." Well, soon he wouldn't be here any more. Instead he'd be on his way to Jool! That was something to think about. Jeb sat back in his couch and dreamed of exploring Vall, Bop and Pol. Their current lander might be capable of Laythe, but that would be pushing it. Doubtful they'd get the go ahead to test that. *** A few hours later, fuel and kethane tanks full, Jeb lit the drive once more and rocketed off the Mun. This was starting to get routine, though at present they only had one mining ship. They'd better get a second one up here fairly soon. What if there was a mechanical fault they couldn't fix at Munbase Alpha? From what Jeb had heard though it didn't sound like the Council was going to go for that. Flashy Jool missions? Sure. Boring fuel supply ships? Maybe not. Well, wasn't his problem now. Lolorf would be the one doing the boring grunt work. The grunt work with unlimited access to the Mun... Jeb sighed wistfully. As he cruised upwards, the Mun starting to diminish behind him, Jeb saw he'd not made bad time. Only five past two. Unfortunately he hadn't checked on Jedwig's orbit and he had to swing a few times around the Mun before their orbit's coincided. It was over half an hour before he made rendezvous. "There you are. Jeb." Jedwig said when they were finally closing distance between them. "Well, as punctual as ever I see." "Oh, you want I should go back and try again? I can if you'd like Brains." "Er, no thanks. Just dock so I can get this baby fueled up." Jeb stared at the ship and sighed. Jedwig was going to be stupid again huh? "Uh, Jedwig?" He said calmly. "Haven't you forgotten something?" "OK, please can you dock?" Jeb shook his head. Oh it was one of those days huh? "No... how am I going to dock when your docking port is attached to the lander?" A poignant pause lasted for a few seconds. "Of course of course. Give me a chance will you?" Jedwig said nervously. Grinning he watched Jedwig disconnect from the lander and slide away, clearing the from docking port. As Jool One swung to face him Jeb engaged RCS and slid towards the exploration vessel. Pondering on what he'd thought back on the Mun Jeb wondered if Interplanetary ships would become just as routine in the future? Well, eventually sure. But would he live to see it? Did he want to? When everything was routine and laid out just so... where were the frontiers to explore? With a gentle clunk the two ships docked and Jeb opened the hatch above him. It was odd for the orientation to be switched like this when in orbit. This capsule was designed for Kerbals to be sitting upright when landing, not when the ship moved horizontally towards another vessel in orbit... if horizontal meant anything in zero-g. The hatch on the other side opened and Lolorf waived through the access tube. "Hey, nice to see you again Jeb." Jeb thought he could see signs of worry on Lolorf's face and wondered if Jedwig had been scaring the guy. "She's all warmed up for you Lolorf. Come on over and I'll go back and grab your place OK?" "S.. sure." He said, then pulled himself through the tube. Briefly the two shook hands, but there wasn't really room for two in here so Jeb squeezed past him and into the docking port access way. "Welcome aboard Number One." Jedwig said, beaming and offering his hand as Jeb emerged. "Number One huh? I thought you're Jool One and I'm Jool Two?" Jeb thought he caught a slight twitch in Jedwig's left eye, but he kept grinning. "Of course, of course. Come on in Jeb." Sliding up and docking the hatch closed, and hearing Lolorf close his docking port, Jeb checked out the extended capsule that he'd be calling home for the next few years. It was a little cramped. One of the new three Kerbal capsules connected to a four kerbal hitch-hiker pod, but with a lot of the space taken up with three hibernation pods and their control equipment. "Well, best get to work. So Commander, what first?" Jeb said, floating to attention in front of Jedwig, saluting. "Er... I... *cough* Yes, best double check the fuel systems while we pump it over from VKM Two." He managed, then floated back over his seat and strapped in. Oh this was going to be a fun voyage. Jeb could tell!

Unfortunately I was rather busy over the weekend so didn't get to add a post. I'll try to keep up with it this week.

Thanks, I was beginning to wonder if the thread was dead. Glad to see I was mistaken

Yeah, I really should have worked on the design more on that one before posting. I'm not keen on the look of that smelter. The second version I drew is a bit better I think.

But it would have to expand in width and height as well as length for bigger ships. You can't just add end pieces on. That means expanding the side panels vertically as well as extending the top panels wideways when larger ships are needed. Maybe an 'Upgrade' button on the station which costs resources? Perhaps with X, Y & Z sliders for size?

Heh, he's still working on that? Cool. Haven't seen him post on the Orbital Manufacturing thread in a while (or anyone actually) and I didn't think to check the other thread lately. I'll be interested to see what it looks like as a final version.

How about a lazor satellite constellation to locate said projectiles and form a mesh of cross-crossing beams in it's path? Have to be in low orbit to avoid the mesh hitting ground (though they'd be set to diffuse after a certain distance to minimize out-range casualties), and need rapid updates of nearby satellites/ships to avoid hitting them. The up side is it would super heat the target way beyond re-entry heating to reduce any package into small enough debris that re-entry would deal with the rest (at Kerbin at any rate. Other planets are another matter! Duna's atmosphere would likely be too thin to absorb much so some small debris would get through) The full constellation would likely be well over a hundred mini-sats, but only a group of the nearest ten would be needed per mesh instantiation. They'd need a very good comms and detection network to plot the incoming weapons fire, but given that they'd be pretty effective, and individually would be small target and difficult to lock on for counter attack. In close range attack however the individual weapons wouldn't pose much of a threat to any ship, and their armor is non-existent.

Thanks The Error, much appreciated. Now, on the next installment. Launch While Gene was going over the paperwork for the latest refinements for the Vanguard resuable rockets he became aware of a subtle, irregular tapping. Looking around he could see no source, then he realized it was coming from outside his door. With a sigh he got up to see what it was. Opening the door he was somewhat surprised to see a nervous looking Jedwig standing there. Jedwig too seemed surprised but soon his patented 'I'm Great' smile was back on his face, the nervousness gone. "Oh, hey Gene. Didn't know you were in your office. Um, what can I do for you?" Gene squinted as he looked at the Kerbonaut. 'Didn't know'? That was a laugh. "So... go on..." He said pointedly. Jedwig just looked confused. "I mean, why are you here?" "Oh, well... I, erm...." Jedwig actually looked at his shoes "I... just wanted to be sure. You know, before the flight." "About...?" Gene leaded. "Well... You've told Jeb haven't you?" Gene blinked, what was he...? Oh! "Yes Jedwig. He knows you're in charge." Still the guy was nervous. "Well, I mean, he understood it... right?" He'd now reached the point of thumb twiddling. This was getting silly! "Yes. You are commander, he is your second in command, in charge of the landings. He knows the drill Jedwig. Despite him being higher rank than you." "Um... good. Just wanted to be sure you know. Hah! Er... He really said it was OK?" "JEDWIG!" Gene burst out, then controlled himself when the guy jerked back in response. "Jedwig, you should get ready. Launch is in four hours." "Um, yeah. I'll do that." HE said, still looking unsure of himself. Slowly he headed off towards the Flight Prep area. "That guy seriously needs help." Gene muttered and headed back into his office, dreading what would happen on the mission with Jedwig in charge. "Kod help us!" *** "T Minus two minutes and counting." Milton's voice came over the speakers in the cabin. This room was somewhat more cramped than some capsules Jedwig had been in over the years. A lot of the room was taken up with the large hibernation capsules on one side. There were even folding partitions for decency's sake when getting ready for hibernation. They had simple regenerative life support systems, good for ten days and took over two months to regenerate that life support capability when not being actively used. He hated the idea of relying on the machines to wake them all up. The original designs he'd seen were for cabins with life support that could keep one Kerbal alive indefinitely, and that one would oversee the others in hibernation for the trip. However tests on Kerbals cooped up for a year or more on their own... hadn't gone well. So, here he was babysitting two newbies, one of which wouldn't be with them for long. He surveyed his two compatriots in the seats beside him. Lolorf was due to take over from Jebediah on the VKM Two, ferrying fuel from the Mun up to orbit, or to other craft on the surface of the Mun. He seemed solid enough, but was rather quiet. In fact he hadn't said one word since boarding the capsule. Rodsy, the crew member that would be joining them on the mission, was a different story. Wide eyed and eager, gaping at everything. Jedwig hadn't left the academy that long ago, but he had plenty of other experience under his belt in aircraft. Even out of flight academy though he hadn't been that green! "Hey look!" Rodsy exclaimed. "They've finished connecting the water tower!" Oh boy, this guy needed to get out more! Jedwig would take him under his wing, nurture him, and teach him the ways of the world! "Can you shut up? I'm trying to work out the flight path." Lolorf interrupted. "It's done." Jedwig said. "I double checked it myself when I came in. Here." He sent the flight plan to Lolorf's terminal. "Telemetry was only out a few hundredth's of a percent. Not bad." Lolorf looked confused, but skimmed Jedwig's data none-the-less. "Um, OK." He said timidly. "Jool One, this is Flight. All systems are go. Coming up on one minute to launch. Standby." Jedwig went through the preflight automatically. After all, this was child's play! Grinning as he worked, he still had nagging doubts of how Jeb would react to meeting his new 'commander' for the next couple of years. OK, most of it would be in hibernation. Still... "T minus five... four..." As Gene took over the countdown Jedwig settled in, hands on the controls and set up for the flight. It was good to be back in the captain's acceleration couch! OK, that didn't sound right. "... Two... liftoff!" The engines burned hard and the huge structure rose slowly and majestically off the ground, the pillar of fire and smoke beneath outlining the sharp outline of his ship. He could watch the launch via feeds from the ground cameras and saw himself tearing up into the sky on the most ambitious mission Kerbals had yet to attempt. This was the life! *** A small light flickered on Jeb's control panel, snoring filling the little cabin. Soon a repetitive beeping sounded. Eventually it got through to him and his eyes flickered. "Whu? *YAWWWWN!* Oooh, long nap. Oh, Bob." with grin he flicked the comms on. "Hey there Commander. How's the base fairing?" "At last!" Bob replied. "I was beginning to think you'd gone into a coma or something! Anyway, just reporting that the Jool Explorer has launched successfully. I think it's time you found a good spot to land and refuel don't you?" "What's the magic word?" Silence filled the cabin. "It starts with a letter 'P' you know." Jeb needled carefully. "Just get going will you? Kod you can be annoying sometimes!" "Aww, you're just saying that 'cos you loath and despise me." Jeb said with a grin and started warming systems back up again on the ship. "Don't tempt me Jeb. I've had a rough week. We had two 'guests' from the government last week here and I had to give them the grand tour. Fun stuff!" "Hey, could have been worse, could have been from the Council!" "Just keep it together Jeb, and watch out for Jedwig." "Will do Bob. See you in a couple of years." With a roar his engine ignited and he burned for the surface. With a grin plastered across his face he didn't even look at the computer flight plot. This was the life! Flying by the seat of your pants. *** Launch went without a hitch thank heavens! Gene had to stare at the self obsessed face of Jedwig on the screen the whole time, but other than that it went well. "Orbit perfectly circularized." Jool Commander said on the screen "I... we are doing well." Gene shook his head. He had to give Jeb credit, he had managed to temper Jedwig's insulation a little. Maybe after a long voyage with the two of them together the whole time Jedwig would become a better person? Gene smiled and managed to avoid snorting in dirision at the thought. Somehow he doubted it. "Flight to Jool One congratulations on a smooth launch. ETA on burn is in fourteen minutes. Mun rendezvous at fourteen hundred hours." "Thanks Flight... you don't mind if I double check this?" All sound in Mission control abruptly halted as everyone stopped what they were doing, gaping at the screen. Gene kept expecting crickets to be chirping in the background somewhere. "I... no... no I don't mind Jedwig." Gene said, for once missing Jedwig's designation. Milton leaned over towards Gene as the crew up in orbit got set up for their burn. "Is he OK? Should we scrub the mission?" "He's suffering from something rather severe." Gene said seriously. "It's called Jebediah Kerman." A chuckle was all the answer he got as Milton went back to work. Maybe they could pull through this after all?

More like crash. Even if it has the dv and thrust to spare it doesn't have any landing gear and is very tall. If they manage to land slowly enough to perch on the engines the thing would topple over very easily. High winds have already been mentioned remember.

OK, just started the new chapter: Jool Explorer. Anyone who's interested, read on!

Completed Chapters: Ch1: Farside Crater, Ch2: Lalock Valley, Ch3: Tylen Sea, Ch4: Munbase Alpha, Ch5: Jool Explorer (this one) Ongoing Chapters: Chapter Six: Atomic Science This Chapter: -Part 1: Expectations -Part 2: Pilot Exchange -Part 3: Departure -Part 4: Perchance to Dream -Part 5: Arrival -Part 6: Aerobrake -Part 7: Rescue Vessel Launch -Part 8: Problems -Part 9: EFT Rendezvous -Part 10: Satellites and Satellites -Part 11: Bop -Part 12: Low Jool Orbit -Part 13: Leaving Jool -Part 14: Journey Home -Part 15: Journey's End -Part 16: Intermission Alright, Chapter five already! Next up Jedwig Jebediah and Rodsy head to Jool for a 'footsteps and flag' style mission to as many moons as they can manage. At least that was the plan. We'll see how well they do eh? Expectations "Forty nine days." Gene turned, startled, to see Dunkel standing in the doorway, arms crossed and with his ever-present scowl on. "Pardon?" "A while back you asked me how long it would take to get it ready." He said, nodding towards the ship on the pad that Gene had been staring at the last few minutes. "Well, it took forty nine days to get it to there, and she's as ready as she's gonna get... unless the Council has deemed we actually have time to spare?" Sighing Gene glanced back at the huge construction on the pad. Easily it was the tallest rocket ever built. Perhaps not quite the heaviest, the Munbase launch had been quite a load on the pad, but this was trying to launch everything needed to explore the Jool system and mine it for fuel in one rocket. Gene thought the idea was crazy. Frankly, the whole idea of travelling the length of the Kerbolar system and relying on fuel you mine to get home again... nuts! But he'd been over-ruled by the high and mighty, though there were grumblings in the government about it, even openly. Tension was rising. He'd spoken to Sendo last week and the guy seemed burned out. Trying to keep control of the council and avoid it doing something stupid was a full time job, and given what he'd seen this last month Sendo had failed. Of course in the government this was all the Director's fault, not the council's fault as a whole. Scape goats. Politics. Gene had pretty much given up the idea of succeeding Sendo, if and when the old guy retired. He no longer wanted that job! Dunkel coughed and Gene realized he'd been lost in thought for a few seconds. Yeah, he was getting old too. "Sorry Dunkel, a lot on my mind." He said turning back to his friend. "No, no extensions on time from the council. We go ahead as planned." Glancing back at the ship for a moment Gene smiled "You've really outdone yourself though. She's quite a rocket." "Yeah, a lot to put into a small ship admittedly. I like how it's gone. Still think the safety's been pushed to the limit though. We need more testing." Dunkel put his hand up, forstalling Gene's rebuttal. "I know, I know! Not going to happen. We have to make do with what we have. Still, it would have been nice to actually prove this thing worked." "You've flown the test version to orbit and back three times now Dunkel." "And revised the design each time Dammit! Come on Gene, you know this is wrong." With a sigh Gene turned back to his Head of Engineering. "I know, but we don't have a choice, and to be frank we may be overly cautious. We've flown hundreds of missions and, other than a few mishaps in early orbital launches, we've had a spotless record." "Not spotless. The munbase was a near disaster, and for what? Badly designed computer hardware." "We still aren't sure of that Dunkel. Those reports of magnetic fields affecting the ship en-route to the Mun first..." "Was beside the point. The docking systems malfunctioned and blew everything to heck. Those docking controllers were just shoddy workmanship, no two ways around it. Yes, the computer problems probably would have affected them without that, but it made the problem a whole lot worse. So far we haven't had any recent fatal disasters, but we've had plenty of non-fatal ones." With a sigh Gene brought a hand up to Dunkel's shoulder. "Look, I hate this as much a you Dunkel, but there's nothing we can do. Demands have been made of us and if we don't perform the budget cuts would likely stop any launches beyond the Mun for a long time." "Hogwash! The council may cut us back, but the government would over-rule them." "In time, perhaps. But then again, it wouldn't take much for someone on the council to slurry our name and blame all the failure at our door, not the rushing the Council's been heaping on us. Then they'd go for the near-Kerbin science missions they've always wanted, exclusive of everything else. If popular opinion turns against us the government would be forced to allow us to be downscaled... permanently." Both Kerbals turned to look at the ship before them. "I guess I couldn't really live with me'self if that happened." Dunkel said tiredly. "But..." "I know, I know. We'll make it work Dunkel. These guys are the best after all." "Hah! With Jedwig up there? That choice wasn't the best around." "Unfortunately he was picked when the project was starting, and now the public knows he's the mission commander we'd need a damned good reason to replace him." "Other than he's an idiot?" Gene just chuckled and shook his head. Yes indeed, fun times ahead!

It's just a raw mesh, split into groups (as long as they transferred into the OBJ format from Milkshape). No materials, no textures, no skeleton. Like I said I haven't modelled in a long time but still had Milkshape 3D installed (my favourite low poly modelling prog) so I gave it a try. Feel free to work with it if you want A long time ago I briefly did look at what was required to get meshes into Unity but didn't get very far in my research. Still don't know everything required.

Rotary: You mean Infernal Robotics, and yes it would work for the hinges etc, but that would require someone to have both EL and IR installed, or at very least get permission to use IR's dll. I was meaning for something to be integrated into IR and use as few parts as possible. Ralathon: The point of using VAB in the field was to be able to slowly build a ship while things were going on, however, if you can call up the VAB with an overlay of the actual scenery at the target (to make sure the finished ship wouldn't clip with anything nearby) then it becomes 'ghosted' in the field until it is built that would work too. You could see a version of what is being built until it is ready and you wouldn't need any special KAS functionality.

True, but sometimes Kethane does it too well. It's an all encompassing resource at present, one in, many out. Having multiple resources gathered such as the way KSPI does it seems more realistic to me, although honestly I'd prefer something half way between. Something more similar to Kethane in style, but with multiple resources mined. I know this is where Kethane might already be heading. Me I'm impatient I'd like something like that now, mining air, oceans, and land for resources. Right now that's doable with two, or maybe three mods, or KSPI has sort of all three now, though a little unfinished. On land I personally would like small amounts of resources to be available anywhere, though able to be mined very slowly, but 'hotspots' only on certain biomes/planets/moons. That way, in a pinch, you could set up one base and if you were willing to wait a Loooong time you could have just that one base do anything. However for any efficiency you'd need to spread out your mining operations. Hmm, only seen firespitter for props. Have to search for that later. It'd be interesting to look at just for the props, and that maintenance ability sounds interesting. Yes, but even with KAS 'construction' you're severely limited. Try doing any radial symmetry by mounting stuff by hand! Plus you'd need some of the helpers from the VAB for some systems, ie the centers of mass, thrust, and lift. Having a 'constructor unit' make the individual parts, shove them in KAS containers for shipping, or just bolting them on a ship temporarily for transport, then shipping them to an assembly site, then having a Kerbal assemble them via KAS would work (after editing it so any item can be attached via KAS). You don't even have to worry too much about the absurdity of a Kerbal strapping huge things to his back. You can right click on an object that is attached and find an 'attach button', enabling moving the object from point A to point B (if they're close enough) without strapping it on. I still think that if KAS style assembly is done it needs to be refined a bit, probably with some central control part to act as if it were the VAB to give you those extra controls/helpers.

Well, the point of the Hub idea I was doing wasn't an expandable thing really. It was a way to have a segmented base you assemble later, but keep it simple. The total base would have five parts, plus extras like solar panels or kethane mining rigs. But each part would be large and heavy, the whole base being too much to lift in one go. Thus, as a base, you could have things more efficient or other advantages. I just like the idea of a facility being better than a mobile launchpad. It just seemed silly to be to have a (relatively) small part on a ship that can build anything. If we can do a different mechanism, say invert the docking arms so they are down low with ports pointing up for rovers to drive over then dock, you could have a flat central pad that was low to the ground with some hefty equipment alongside it maybe. What would be tricky would be leaving both access ways on and off for rovers to drive away, but at the same time leaving ports on the side where the rest of the base attaches to. I've tried to do something similar with the existing launchpad2, putting a base underneath it (and unfortunately making it's inbuilt engines useless as they are thrusting against the base) then extending superstructure sideways from that base, through the two holes in the unfolded base, and putting the docking connectors on those. It still left no real room to drive rovers off, even with a tiny amount of ground clearance between the bottom of the launchpad2 and the ground. (EDIT: Here's a sketch of what I mean, the ramps able to fold for transit for the central Hub- There's one problem with this design. You can't use undercarraige to lift the modules to dock, they'd need to be lowered to dock. That would mean whatever is holding up high enough to not dock to the pad as it's coming in must also be the drive wheels. Probably would need specialised wheels that are powered as well as retractable, or at least with alterable suspension to lift and lower it)

Yes, I was considering a special module connecting to one of the hanging ports that has a slope leading to the pad (unfoldable I guess) but I think that would probably end up with way too steep a slope? Probably. What I was considering was a graphic way that Kerbals could aid in construction. IE, it would take longer to build if you had fewer Kerbals in the ship/base doing the constructing. Where I first posted that suggestion was Orbital Manufacturing (if I remember right) and they were supposed to be jetting about on RCS packs doing the welding. True, managing the positions of them so they were actually working on the right part as it was being built would be tricky, just flying (or walking on a ground based pad) around while it was going on would work. Plus I'd say put some temp block, or even temporary graphics of scaffolding, to replace a part as it's being build, replaced with the finished component when it's done.

That idea (not mine originally, I just fleshed it out a bit) of constructing things via automated Kerbals and individual components is good, but I'm not sure if it's possible to do it yet in KSP. Can you automate a Kerbal like that? Make him weld parts together? Can you even simulate the VAB controls in the 'real world' outside the VAB itself? I know KAS has allowed placement of objects one on another outside the VAB, but you can't restrict things (ie, radial symmetry) with that and it's tricky to make things level.

OK, I did up a model of the Construction hub I was talking about: It's 3084 triangles and I tried to keep the different groups meaningful (but no skeleton/hinges set up) and I hope they transferred to the OBJ file. Just incase, here is the Milkshape 3D file too.

Well, I'll see if I can have a go at modelling it, but bear in mind I haven't done any serious modelling in nearly ten years! Even then I was never too good at texturing. If I do get something going would an OBJ file be good enough? I've never imported anything into Unity/KSP and don't know the inner workings. (EDIT: Oh, and what kind of poly count is usual for KSP?)

Well, honestly the time taken thing would be nice if (and it's a big if admittedly) it can be operated when the base/vessel isn't selected or in physics range. I know other mods have done this quite well, though getting electricity costs simulated for this might be a problem. You'd also need an 'Alarm Clock' like notification of when your construction is ready, or when the materials have been mined to start construction of something.