Patupi

At least as far as the resource mapping there is a problem. Kethane is a good mod, works well, and has a nice interface. But it doesn't do everything that other modders want in resource mapping and distribution. Majiir is gradually adjusting and upgrading it, but if another modder wanted to do things differently he'd have to wait for Majiir to (hopefully) make the adjustment he wanted. For example, right now Kethane can either give even distribution of material all over a planetary body or give the patches the standard mod gives, each patch being one deposit. If you wanted to have mining possible if you just moved one hex away from a 'mined out' hex it wouldn't work, unless laboriously mapping each planet with one hex deposits. This would do away with the random distribution. I understand Majiir is planning on making deposits work differently, hex to hex basis, but that will take time. Similarly, compare the two different methods of scanning between KSPI and Kethane. Both valid, each having different advantages and disadvantages. Standardizing on one would mean anything based on the other wouldn't work. For example Kethane is no longer utilizing the 2D pop up maps. If a modder wanted to do that he couldn't use the standard Kethane code without serious rework. I like the idea of standardizing resource definitions (hydrogen is hydrogen for different mods etc) and hope that can be done at least. More than that things might get rather complicated.

Yay! A Red Dwarf fan! Very nice tale so far, and split between The Munbase and Eve. Keep it up. I like the 'Starbug Seven' Did you have difficulty getting the center of mass right, or just rely on torque to keep it straight?

Although in theory you could transplant Kerm seeds off planet... well, how on Kerbin would you know if they'd survive in an alien environment? I don't think they'd be willing to risk Kerm seeds off world before testing with other plant life first.

For some reason almost all of what I've read (and written for that matter!) on the forums has been in past tense. It seems... odd to read in present tense, but once I got used to it again I liked it. Nice description and you get a lot of detail without overwhelming the reader. Good going!

To quote Czoklemuss... Dun dun dunnnnnn! Very nice atmospheric plot development. Love the way you peel this out, and at the same time introduce some aircraft. Are we going to see SSTOs taking some of KIS' thunder in the near future?

Well, you could use Infernal Robotics to hinge or slide them up out of the way if it's just looks you're going for?

I don't think that description will quite fly. If that were true only the top surface would be green, and thus when asteroids hit it there would be areas of grey beneath the pitted surface. True, Minmus doesn't show the huge cratering of the Mun, but the prominences all look pitted as if scoured by micrometeorites. I'm assuming the surface is just soft enough to cover large craters over time, and the truely huge ones were all captured by the Mun's larger gravity field. If the top surface were oxidized then millenia (at least) went by you'd have enough shifting to at very least have the surface a patchwork of green and grey. And all of this is pretty silly. Because of course the real reason it's green was a bombardment of mint comets a while ago. Hit so hard they saturated the surface down to the creamy filling... I mean the core.

Me, I just get fed up trying to draw with a mouse. Sooner or later I'll get myself a touchpad for drawing, but always wanted to wait till the ones with LCD screens imbedded became cheap enough. Even got an Android Tablet because I thought I could draw on that. HAH! Funny. Even got the precise Jot pen to improve matters... didn't work. I think unless you have those specialized tablets with sensors behind the screen and the special pens (IE the Galaxy Note series) accuracy with a pen sucks with current capacative screens.

Yup, but the 'stems' of the drills have no collision otherwise so you don't need to worry about them colliding with anything during transport of your mining rig to it's final position. Thus them sticking down below the rocket, and even into the ground, doesn't matter for normal operations. Yup, since the current theory is that the Moon was blasted off the Earth after it had cooled somewhat and the core of Earth had already formed. The Moon is thus mostly made from Earth crustal material with a little of whatever body had struck the Earth to cause that material to break free. One theory I've seen says it's entirely crustal material, and that the impactor actually fused with Earth and is still here. Just the debris went on to make the Moon. Anyone know what the current, up-to-date, absolute latest theory is? My data is probably a few years out of date.

(OK, I missed an entry last night, just too tired, but doing this morning instead.) Prototype Science Rover Touchdown "Well, there she is." Bill said proudly, waving a hand at the ship on the pad. "Whadya think?" "Uh..." Patzer said, delaying his response. He stared over the weird, stubby craft and had difficulty containing his... enthusiasm. "Are those wheels?" Bill chuckled. "Got that huh? Yup, this is the Prototype Science Rover, or Protorover we like to call it. It's Caldin's baby, though me and Dunkel worked some modifications in." The thing looked odd in the extreme, the four, long stems the wheels were mounted on stuck out one side of the craft, like a crab stuck on a stick Patzer thought. It looked like it should be struggling for it's life or something. "They don't look... um... compact." He said carefully. "Well, no... plus they aren't powered. We're having difficulty with wheels working for any reliable time in vacuum due to vacuum welding. I mean sure, we can get it to work for a day maybe, but there is enough pitting from VW to make the bearing surfaces wear out really fast. Plus motors seem even more susceptible. We have managed to get bearings to work, but they are a little... bulky." Patzer looked at the large red and black wheels and nodded slowly. "Anyway, they work, it just has to use other means to maneuver on the Mun." "The Mun?" Patzer interrupted, eyes wide. "I'm going to the Mun?" Bill chuckled. "Oh yeah, Bob'll take good care of you. Anyway, range on this is pretty limited as it runs on RCS to maneuver. Trials also seem to indicate you'll need RCS or the integral gyros to stabilize it too. Careful with that though. Dunkel managed to get the test model to stand up on it's rear wheels on the torque wheels alone! If you leave SAS on when changing slope you could find yourself with a serious lack of traction as some wheels leave the ground!" "Huh... I'm assuming I'm getting training for this, right?" "Well, yes... but the council is pushing for rapid launch. Hence moving the ship to the pad. Launch is tentatively scheduled for tomorrow evening." "TOMORROW?" Patzer blurted, then quietened a little, though the panic was still evident in his voice. "Tomorrow? How can I learn an entirely new ship by tomorrow? Isn't there anyone trained on this? Say, someone who tested it during construction and testing?" Bill's eyes seemed unable to meet Patzer's and he licked his lips. "Well... not exactly. Dunkel tested the one third scale model remotely and he isn't rated a kerbonaut. You see... there hasn't been a lot of testing. The design was finished... yesterday." Patzer looked up again at the rover, balanced on end on the top of the squat rocket assembly. "Yesterday... and it's launching tomorrow. Isn't that... a little quick?" he said, a twitch forming in his right eye. "Yeah... a little... to be honest Gene isn't happy about it. Apparently when he put the idea for the rover before the council they ran with it... and demanded it to be launched 'as soon as is kerbally possible' to quote Councillor Rasmussen. Sorry you got stuck with this. Luck of the draw. But in defense all tests show it is a remarkably nimble and sturdy little craft. You should have no problems." "Until it explodes." He said quietly, still staring at the Protorover. "Hey, don't look at it like that. Come on, we've had very few explosions at KSC... recently." Slowly Bill escorted the rather sad kerbal to the training center to go over the details of his ship. This was going to be a long day! *** Patzer was sitting in the canteen later that morning when a nervous looking Bill approached him. "Um... Patzer? You might want to head to Mission Control." Blinking Patzer looked a little confused, then his eyes got rather wide. "Oh no... They didn't?" he said rather quietly. "I'm afraid so." Said a sullen Bill. "The launch has been re-scheduled for this afternoon. You better get what testing done you can in the next few hours, but first go see Gene in Mission Control and he'll fill you in on the mission details." Bill looked almost embarrassed by the whole thing as Patzer headed off to the Mission Control building. And that had been a really good breakfast too! *** Well, five hours after learning he was going to go into space Patzer now found himself sitting in a capsule, fully suited up, and not that familiar with his rocke... rover. This was not a good day! "...and I'm telling you to send someone to find him! I need to talk to him now!" Came quietly over the comms circuit, obviously talking to someone else, perhaps on the phone. It sounded like Gene had left the line to Rover One open while he phoned. He certainly wasn't himself today! "No I don't want to wait. Don't put me on ho... Oh for heaven's sake!" Patzer felt sorry for him, pushed into changing the profile of the mission, but he felt more sorry for himself. This wasn't the way he'd pictured his first spaceflight! "T minus two minutes and c... counting." Milton said over the line. That should have been Gene but he was... occupied for a while. Slowly Patzer went over his notes and leafed through the manual again and engaged a few final warm up procedures for the booster assembly. Oh no, not rushing anything here at all! With difficulty he stopped his hands from shaking and gripped the main controls as the counter slid towards zero. "5... 4... 3... 2... 1... Liftoff!" The familiar final countdown sounded and with a shudder the engines throttled up and lurched the awkward looking little craft off the pad, pressing Patzer into his seat. He was on his way! *** The Munar surface was getting closer and Patzer was getting worried. "Um, Flight? Where are the spot-light controls? I can't find them in the manual." There was a pause from Mission Control, never a good sign, but eventually Gene answered. "I'm afraid the construction of the Prototype Science Rover was a little... rushed. I'm sorry to say external illumination, other than the forward headlights, couldn't be fitted in in the time." "In other words, you forgot." Patzer said glumly. "You realize I'm coming in on the dark side, right? This is going to be a fun landing!" Other than a few muttered comments on the necessary cutbacks and engineering limitations Gene didn't further comment and Patzer attempted to focus on the landing. It wasn't Gene's fault, Patzer was just mad at the situation. Still, he hoped the situation with the Council would be sorted out soon. "Radar altimeter shows six kilometers. I'm commencing final braking maneuver." The last stage attached to the rover burned again, the single poodle engine burning hard as the ship slowed down. It was nerve-wracking landing a ship without landing legs. "Four kilometers, throttling down a little... Three kilometers." Patzer watched the velocity and altitude fall, but felt rather nervous as it was almost pure black outside. Eventually he got his speed down to ten meters per second at a couple of hundred meters high and took a deep breath. "Ditching last stage." He said, a slight tremor in his voice, and hit the switch. The little ship shuddered and the last rocket engine detached and fell away and he engaged the RCS system. He had quite a few RCS jets on this thing and he carefully flipped it over ninety degrees to get the wheels level with the ground and burned hard on the monopropellant as he dropped. "Easy... eeeeeaasy." He muttered as the radar showed the ground approaching. *THUMP!* It was a bit hard, even hard burning on the RCS had slowed him only gently, but the wheels handled it. Though to his right through the window he saw the burning remains of the last stage flickering in the dim starlight. Thank Kod he hadn't landed on that! Even without light he should have been looking down, not just relying on the radar! That had been lucky. "I... I'm down Flight. I'm in one piece and still have over three quarters of my monopropellant left. Steering seems intact and RCS still functional. Proceeding to Munbase Alpha." Cheering, actual honest to Kod cheering, came over the radio and Patzer actually started to feel good about himself and the mission. He was really here on the Mun! Hah, in your face Jebediah! "Roger Protorover One. Good job. I'll patch you in to Alpha One for the rendezvous." Gene said, sounding much less stressed now at least. Munbase, here I come!

As far as game play depth goes I think it could definitely use more. The suggestion (I forgot who made it, sorry. Might even have been you taniwha ) that you cut out rocket parts and just gather metals together for construction seems good, but limiting it to just a few seems like the best bet. One alternative to the current Kethane based system is to adjust the mining amount levels. Perhaps (similar to the KSPI Method by Fractal UK) there could be a background level of all materials that mining could get anywhere, but VERY slowly, taking days or weeks to get anything useful, but the hotspots shown on the Kethane styled map are the significant deposits. That way you CAN, if you really want, have a single base mine everything you need to make ships, but it is very inefficient. It ends up better if you ship in materials from off site (even off planet) to a central construction site in the end. Having certain planets not have certain types of material at all (except for those background levels) would encourage shipping in from planet to planet without making it an absolute necessity. (EDIT: As to numbers of materials for construction... I'd limit it to a handful at most. Maybe copper, aluminum, iron, silicon, maybe add in generic 'minerals' to add into other metals for strengthening, add to silicon for semiconductors etc. Oh, and as to rust-resistance not being necessary... well, they do still need to land on Kerbin and Laythe on occasion, so it might be helpful And Minmus verdigris? Er, think actually needs an oxidizing atmosphere, *chuckles* but a nice thought.)

It is good. Still play the original and Cataclysm every now and then... even Homeworld 2 occasionally (wasn't too keen on the storyline compared to the first two). I used to mod Homeworld a while ago now. Made a couple of models for it, one in the 'Movements of Fire and Shadow' Babylon 5 mod (The Ticonderoga Carrier), and the other for the 'Sacrifice of Angels' Startrek mod (though I think they may have removed my ship in that after a while. It was the Breen frigate. I'm pretty sure they had a second Breen model by someone else after a few months).

Yellow! Go for the Yellow Mush!

Hah! Good one! *grins*

Well, I guess I'm not giving much away but the 'protorover' that's coming landed just outside the crater and drove in over the rim, and later on a sort of rover (complicated) went and came back over the rim using combination of rockets and wheels, so I have at least gone in that direction. But I purposely didn't look up the exact coordinates so I could 'explore' to the north and accidentally find it. (The Easter egg I mean) Anyway, I'm going to try to do another entry tonight (if I can get the time), especially as I'm trying to finish off the Munbase thread and move onto the Jool mission. There's the protorover being delivered to the Munbase, and their transporter arriving before Munbase Alpha part is done.

Wonder

Oh, I've just thought. Dres has got to be a thug or something, right? After all he's got this dirty great scar on his face! (EDIT: What I was thinking was the chunkier (and dumber) of the two Johns in 'Der Management' )

I thought in asteroidal material copper was plentiful? (EDIT: By which (in KSP) that means that small bodies would have it, which haven't had enough gravity to cause the heavier metals to sink to the cores. IE Bop, Pol and Gilly... oh and Dres too I guess. Hey! Finally a reason to go to Dres! )

Well, as to alternative alloys, if you're willing to go with something that is more difficult to manufacture how about beryllium bronze? I don't know if beryllium is available much off world in any quantity, but copper certainly is. As a side benifit, mixing iron systems, alongside aluminum, and beryllium bronze would reduce the likelihood of vacuum welding

Mossman: I think what he was going for was that different components would require different amounts of ores/metals. Thus some materials would need to be shipped in, from elsewhere on the moon/planet, or from further afield if that material wasn't available on that body.

KSK: Curiously I've never had any difficulty with docking, though that was the first time I tried it in a gravity field (except rovers) and it was tricky. Flying? That's another matter entirely! Me and planes don't generally do well. I've flown small planes with low part counts, even made SSTOs, but designing or flying anything bigger than 50parts seems a hit or miss with me. I've also been... problematic with interplanetary course plotting. Sometimes it's good, and I know all the theory... but then sometimes it all goes south. Often due to over-confidence on my part *chuckles* You'll see that soon enough in the tale. mdatspace: Yeah, that was the aim. They were going for a spot on the edge of the Kethane field, but I was hoping to get a rover heading North Hasn't happened yet. The first 'protorover' they get using RCS can't really go that far on it's fuel supply, and I'm only recently thinking of upgrading to electric rovers, despite having researched rover wheels a while back. Got sidetracked methinks

Hehe, cool little tale there. Nicely done *Switches to nitpick mode* Oh, and it's 'destabilizing' not 'instabilizing' *Disengage nitpick mode*

I love a good scenic shot, and I have a few too many views of sunsets in KSP Well, you could say not enough I guess?

Yeah, docking on the surface is a git! Didn't help that the base wasn't level either. Oh, and in case anyone was wonding, the scene with the skycrane lifting off the base had to be 'refilmed' as with the panic during the actual disaster... I mean during the actual mission, I never took any screenshots till it was all over. So you might, in a few of the scenes, notice some IFFs of another Munbase off in the distance. I landed the second one fairly close to give similar terrain for the retake, (which had exactly the same problems... seems inherent in the tricouple... maybe just on the surface? I dunno.) but this lead to the possibility of getting the original in the shot as well. I did fairly well in that regard, but there are at least two shots where you can see both Munbases in shot Ah well.

Munar Base Computer Probe Loddan sat at the secondary command seat in the Central Command Pod and went through final checks. It had been decided, after much debate, that they couldn't reliably rip out the engines or fuel tanks from the VKM One. The computer systems also weren't compatible, and frankly were a bit below par. It had been a thrown together prototype to test the mining systems and really wasn't much aid to them right now. Gernand had already stripped it of most of it's fuel and whatever else they were likely to need and now Loddan was finishing tying in the ship to the remote access terminal... ie his laptop. The Base's computer still wasn't operational of course. "Caldin? I've got another power spike." Loddan said, watching the light on the power supply for his laptop flicker and a red light blink on. "Are you messing with the battery control systems again?" "It's OK." Came Gernand's voice. "I got it! She'll do what I say. Or she'd better!" A clang was heard far away in one of the adjoining pods. "I think I got her listening to me. Shouldn't have any more troubles." "I feel so much better now you've learned repair techniques from Jebediah." Loddan said with a chuckle. "Anyway, I'm just about set up to dump the VKM One. What's left of her anyway. As long as the system is going to be stable for a few minutes?" "Aye, she's running smooth. Don't want to wake our esteemed Captain!" "Give Bob a break, he's been working solid for over twelve hours! Well... here goes." With a few clicks he activated the little ship's systems and plotted a simple arcing course, then hit ignite. He felt the shudder as the ship launched, bare meters from the base. A glaring light flashed in through the window opposite the hatch briefly, then faded up and away as VKM One sailed off on it's final voyage. "It's a shame we don't have any seismic sensors on this thing. That things going to make a heck of a thump when it impacts." "Aye, dinnae worry. I'm sure once they do send seismic sensors up here sometime you'll find something else to crash so we can use them." Loddan rolled his eyes while monitoring the ship's course. Yeah, he could work with Gernand, though his sense of humor might take some getting used to. *** "3... 2... 1... Liftoff!" With a muted roar the small ship blasted off the pad and headed into the heavens. Gene shook his head as he watched it on the monitors. "I hope it's enough." He muttered "They'll be fine Boss." Bill said, coming up beside him. "You know Bob, he'll manage. Um, I've been hearing odd things coming out of Wernher's office. What's up? Gene turned to Bill and frowned. "What, the rover? Well, it's only in preliminary designs, but the launch system is pretty standard. It's not very heavy..." "No, not the rover. I've been hearing something about him freezing people?" Gene sighed. "No, no freezing. It's a metabolic thing. Look, I was trying to keep this under wraps. It's pretty early days yet and Wernher isn't sure it's going to work." Bill blinked uncomprehendingly back. "OK, you know the problems with life support for interplanetary missions? Well, we're considering putting Kerbals into a state of suspended animation for such long trips. The science is good, copied from the Engmar plains bear if I remember right, but Wernher has been having trouble with the metabolic stabilization. We can keep rodents suspended in tests, but their biological functions don't stabilize well over time. He's had them under for two months in one test, with the creature only aging a week, but in that same test two other rodents died from metabolic destabilization. It's a 'work in progress'." "And we're considering this for Kerbals?" Gene nodded, then turned back to the display as the probe ship lanced through the heavens heading for the Mun. "We risk a lot already in space flight. If he can get the risks down to an acceptable level it'll mean realistic travel over year long voyages. Do you really want to waste a year or two of your life for each trip to,say Jool? I think he can get it reliable. Don't worry, I won't send people up on dangerous equipment." "I know Gene, it just seems weird." Bill said, joining him in watching the probe on the screen as the boosters separated. "But you know Bob isn't going to be happy about it. I don't think he'd ever get in a capsule like that!" "Maybe not, and I know we'll have kerbonauts who'll refuse it, but it will make long range travel easier. Don't worry, we'll figure it out." With a final cough the boosters on the screen died and separated, leaving the probe to continue on to the Mun. Soon Bob would have his computer. *** "I have it on the board." Bob said, Caldin in the XO seat as Loddan took a nap in Pod Four. "Probe is at two thousand and ninety kilometers and closing. Trajectory looks good." "Er, do you have full telemetry Alpha One?" Milton said tentatively. "Roger Telemetry. We have full feed on her." "Understood. Transferring control." A few seconds later Bob's laptop lit up with green indicators and he had control of the inbound probe. Now it was up to him to land it! He guessed in about an hour and a half they'd find out how good a pilot he really was. *** On the screen the probe's camera showed it's view of the Munar surface rushing towards it as it descended past twelve kilometers. "One minute till braking maneuver." He said to the empty Command Pod. Loddan was due to wake soon, but Caldin was assisting Gernand in getting the systems ready to tie into the probe core if... when he docked it. Slowly it arced down and he angled it's engines around for the burn. Waiting... waiting... finally... "Engines engaged." The video on his screen shuddered from vibrations as the little craft burned hard, it's two little rockets shaking it violently. Braking was fairly quick, going from over three hundred meters per second to hovering in a matter of less than twenty seconds. With such high thrust to weight ratio it was tricky to keep the little ship hovering steadily, but slowly he brought it in closer to the base. Outside a faint glow showed the engines were getting closer. He hoped their low output wouldn't melt anything up there! "Twenty meters... Eighteen meters..." Bob muttered. "Doing good Alpha One. Telemetry reads good." Milton said quietly. "Roger Telemetry. Ten meters. Docking port engaged, power steady. Clamps ready." The little ship hovered over the ruined ports, aiming for the one remaining docking port that functioned. Slowly it nudged down, spurts of RCS jetting from around it as it corrected it's course. Landing this on the ground was a heck of a lot more difficult than docking in orbit! But after a nerve wracking couple of minutes he felt the clunk and the docking ports latched. "Engines off!" He said, sighing with relief. Leaning back in his chair he wiped the sweat from his brow. He was getting too old for this! "We got! WE GOT IT!" Came the cry on the comms, and Bob grinned as he saw the base's monitors slowly light up with boot up screens. They were back in business!