Patupi

To be honest I can work with the stock ion drives, it's the piddly little xenon fuel tanks that are just killing me. But if the rules are no stock I understand. I'll have to rethink this. I actually had a near workable ship with 486 parts, but with my machine it was killing it. And that was before sticking the launch boosters on!

Given the experience they've had in the past I'm sure there are rules about that, even if these rules might be thrown out the window due to the emergency situation! I wonder if there have been areas in the past where, due to the surrounding terrain, the Groves replaced pretty much everything in the vicinity. Would be especially nasty on an isolated island. (EDIT: Thinking about it, though this may be a problem, the Kerm is all about managing the local flora (and fauna if I remember right) so mono-culture would likely not be quite as bad as it sounds. However I can see Kerm sticking to only certain plants and critters within it's borders, limiting the bio-diversity overall. In the long term this may well hurt the eco-system.)

Quick query Ziv. I'm considering doing another attempt at this with an Ion drive as the main ship, but the prototype I have up as over 380parts and is slugging my machine down a lot, and that's without the launch booster! I'm assuming a modded fuel tank to hold Xenon rather than tons of the tiny Xenon tanks is OK as long as the proportions of the fuel is right relative to stock? If so I'll either mod an existing stock tank to hold Xenon or pinch a fuel tank from another mod that does Ion engines (as long as the proportions of fuel to mass are the same as stock). (EDIT: Looking at the Near Future Technologies Mod right now, maybe just getting a slightly larger Ion engine and a large Xenon fuel tank to cut back on parts... Further EDIT: Looks like NFT is close, but exactly stockalike. I remember another ion stockalike pack somewhere. Gonna search that up.)

OK, I've been using KSPI for ages, but somewhat recently, due to computer issues, I had to switch to Linux as my OS. It's been working fine (with some graphical and speed issues), but because of other limitations I haven't been playing KSP much and thus haven't used the Resource system in KSPI till now. It doesn't seem to work at all. I can't detect or mine any resources. Admittedly I've only tried the Kerbin system so far, but the detector won't pick up anything and indeed shows a load of blank 'hide' and 'show' commands for nothing, with a zero reading for Uranium at the top of the list, and for mining, no matter how much power I have nothing is available. I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling all three folders (though I seriously doubted Treeloader had anything to do with it) with no result. Has this problem cropped up before by any chance? I've searched back a few pages but didn't come across anything Linux related. I suppose it could be something other than Linux, I just seem to be having trouble with other stuff because of that so I just assumed it had something to do with it. As reference I have recently tried (again) to load in my favorite mods. Hence this particular save has a lot of mods in.... really slowing things down. I lag on 150 part ships right now, even on the 64bit linux version. I'm using a small piece of KW rocketry (mainly the fuel tanks) LLL, KSPRC (and it's dirivatives), KSPI, Editor extensions and AGM.

OK, I did the science pod recovery. Was going to just do a couple to show things until I got an answer from you Ziv, but then had an interesting affair with the first pod... I forgot to repack the chutes on that one pod where they were used!... and the pod bounced on touchdown at over 180m/s. After that I thought I'd better land them all anyway, just to be sure. Here's the report: Last mission report

OK, Ziv said I really should land the science pods... so I did. And silly me forgot to repack the chutes on one pod where I used them to slow the Laythe landing!... and the 'no-chute pod' actually bounced! At over 180m/s! Destroyed the docking port and detached a goo canister, but it survived intact otherwise. I think it was just the low mass of the craft with no fuel aboard that saved it. If need be I have a save before then to retry that (and send a Kerbal up to repack the chutes!) but the rest of the recovery went fine. Here's the report, boring and repetitive though it is.

Well, I still have the save, so yes I can drop those science pods... that are now empty since I stripped the since out of ... back to Kerbin. As to mission efficiency... Yeah, not really efficient at all. I originally planned for it to be a totally reusable, with one lander for everything. Well, one out of two isn't bad But I really should have added some light landers for the smaller moons. Taking that beast of a lander down to everything was just silly. But it was a challenge, and I did manage to do it with only one refuel from Kerbin. Which is something I guess. I did plan out the whole thing, including the landing dV... but I didn't test them out. Going by the pure maths they work just fine, and for Tylo was on the bare minimum of what was required to do it. Laythe was just my own stupid fault. I could have done that easily, but I reduced the fuel in the lander to save on gas. Dumb move! The reason Tylo was so hard was I think down to my skill with a lander not being quite as good as I thought. Anyway, thanks for the note, and yes I'll do some quick shots showing the science pods coming down. Do you need shots of all six pods? I have science from the five landings and a teeny bit from Jool orbit. Science also could have been done better, and also I should probably have done two versions of the pods. One for atmosphere and one for vacuum moons. *shrugs*

Since you've been away Ziv I thought I'd re-iterate my completion summary. Pics are a page or two back, and my thread on this is here For the Jebediah level: 10189 science. So, mods used:Alarm clock, MechJeb, Ship Manifest, Action Group Manager, TAC Fuel Balancer, and Editor Extensions. Sending four Kerbals to each moon, including Tylo. Full science from the surface (except crew report. No capsule!), though missing some from orbit (I was lazy), and not doing much in Jool orbit at all. Mothership: At launch=1062tons, 402parts In orbit=203tons, 288parts Univeral Lander: At launch=1062tons(?!? the same? Wierd!), 169parts In orbit=233tons, 108parts Interplanetary Booster: At launch=2016tons, 128parts In orbit=624, 56parts Interplanetary Refueler: At launch=2552tons, 263parts In orbit=534tons, 54parts Six crew on the mission in total, four landed on each moon. Went to all Moons, did science on all of them (ALL OF THEM!) and managed to get home. Did need a ship to get the crew and the science back from Kerbin orbit. If needed I can dump the actual science probes back to the surface too, just didn't want to go through that six times for every landing! Total time for the mission: 12 years 221 days! Yikes! Long trip

It'd be interesting to see the development, and the need for more headroom, forcing the newer, boxier design later

Answer is... I didn't. I went ballistic and the mothership had to pick me up... very very quickly! Had to burn hard on target, then reverse thrust to catch. Not fun. I also used all the RCS to build up velocity on the lander while the last bit of fuel was being used up. Similar thing on Laythe, though there I was using the RCS to while away the time in atmo before the arc took me out into space. Despite all the changes in current KSP versions you still can't switch ships when in atmosphere unless you're within 2.3km! Annoying for low intercepts! (EDIT: I just checked on the 'dv to launch from moons' page, and theoretically I could have got to orbit with that dV. It'd have been close though. If I'd done a perfect launch, wasting nothing and skimming across the landscape I'd have needed less than 2200 with the high TWR I had. As it was to get the mothership to intercept I had to arc high and waste some fuel as I thought I didn't have the dv to reach orbit as is... based on the fact I failed to get to orbit a few times at first. Still it worked out in the end)

That was incredible! Admittedly I might consider it so in part due to my abysmal record with planes Still, that must have taken a heck of a lot of planning to get the fuel right ahead of time!

I don't want to fill this thread up with a massive post so here's a link to a brief pic summary of my mission: Jool-5 Summary

Here's a image summary of the mission highlights: IMGUR is giving me problems accessing some of the older files from the mission (without paying for Pro Imgur anyway) so I'll do this oldschool: Mothership on pad: Assembled ship in orbit with booster: First science on Tylo: The crew all on Tylo: Science on Pol: The crew all on Pol: Interplanetary Refueling ship docking with mothership over Laythe: Science on Laythe: The crew all on Laythe: Science on Val: The crew on Val: Science on... damn, forgot to take a shot of science on Bop! Well, here's the plaque anyway: The crew on Bop: Ditching the lander in orbit around Bop: Aerobraking back at Kerbin: 100km orbit: Shuttle to retrieve science and crew: Landing shuttle: SCIENCE!:

Um, I did do a mission summary text at the end, but I get what you mean about 'too many pics'. I pretty much put all the ones I took in those albums. And I tried to take as many as possible during the mission to show everything. Would a pic of the crew on the surface of each moon and the ship back at Kerbin orbit be sufficient? I didn't take a pic of every science acquisition I did, but did a shot of at least one of the science studies on each moon, and a pic of the science summary at the end.

It'll likely be a while coming, but I'm going to try to have another go at this, but not Jebediah level. Likely 1st level just to prove I can do with with no refueling, as I'd planned this last effort of mine to be.

'Found lying on the side of the road' my a*s Maybe found somewhere, but they aint saying where

OK, last landing, and the trip home. Basically, MISSION ACHIEVED! YAY! The landing on Bop went pretty well. I thought I was rather low on fuel, looked into having the four Kerbals EVA down to the surface (which was actually doable), and sending a probe down on it's RCS jets (which wasn't. Didn't have enough Monopropellant for the trip back up). I did ponder whether to send them down like that anyway and pull the science from the probe and bring it up, but in the end I went with the lander anyway. It left me close to the line on fuel, but seemed to be OK. Then the trip home. Had some difficulty getting a good transit path from Bop orbit back to Kerbin, and ended up looping around the sun yet again, right out to Jool orbit before returning and getting an intercept with Kerbin. Once home, since I'd dumped the lander, I had to send up a ship to bring the science back... oh yeah, and the crew too And 10189 science? Better than I expected! So, mods used:Alarm clock, MechJeb, Ship Manifest, Action Group Manager, TAC Fuel Balancer, and Editor Extensions. KSP Version: 23.5, but only used the new engines to get out of Kerbin's gravity well. Kept with the old engines for interplanetary and munar landings. Sending four Kerbals to each moon, including Tylo. Full science from the surface (except crew report. No capsule!), though missing some from orbit (I was lazy), and not doing much in Jool orbit at all. Mothership: At launch=1062tons, 402parts In orbit=203tons, 288parts Univeral Lander: At launch=1062tons(?!? the same? Wierd!), 169parts In orbit=233tons, 108parts Interplanetary Booster: At launch=2016tons, 128parts In orbit=624, 56parts Interplanetary Refueler: At launch=2552tons, 263parts In orbit=534tons, 54parts Went to all Moons, did science on all of them (ALL OF THEM!) and managed to get home. Did need a ship to get the crew and the science back. If needed I can dump the actual science probes back to the surface too, just didn't want to go through that six times for every landing! Total time for the mission: 12 years 221 days! Yikes! Long trip

OK, last landing, and the trip home. The landing on Bop went pretty well. I thought I was rather low on fuel, looked into having the four Kerbals EVA down to the surface (which was actually doable), and sending a probe down on it's RCS jets (which wasn't. Didn't have enough Monopropellant for the trip back up). I did ponder whether to send them down like that anyway and pull the science from the probe and bring it up, but in the end I went with the lander anyway. It left me close to the line on fuel, but seemed to be OK. Then the trip home. Had some difficulty getting a good transit path from Bop orbit back to Kerbin, and ended up looping around the sun yet again, right out to Jool orbit before returning and getting an intercept with Kerbin. Once home, since I'd dumped the lander, I had to send up a ship to bring the science back... oh yeah, and the crew too And 10189 science? Better than I expected! So, mods used:Alarm clock, MechJeb, Ship Manifest, Action Group Manager, TAC Fuel Balancer, and Editor Extensions. Sending four Kerbals to each moon, including Tylo. Full science from the surface (except crew report. No capsule!), though missing some from orbit (I was lazy), and not doing much in Jool orbit at all. Mothership: At launch=1062tons, 402parts In orbit=203tons, 288parts Univeral Lander: At launch=1062tons(?!? the same? Wierd!), 169parts In orbit=233tons, 108parts Interplanetary Booster: At launch=2016tons, 128parts In orbit=624, 56parts Interplanetary Refueler: At launch=2552tons, 263parts In orbit=534tons, 54parts Went to all Moons, did science on all of them (ALL OF THEM!) and managed to get home. Did need a ship to get the crew and the science back. If needed I can dump the actual science probes back to the surface too, just didn't want to go through that six times for every landing! Total time for the mission: 12 years 221 days! Yikes! Long trip

Well, I'm nearly back, but getting a return from Jool was more awkward than usual. Is Alarm Clock's transfer window calculator perfect? I was using that, got within 7 days of the window, and couldn't get even close on any maneuver node. In the end I had to loop around the Sun, back out to Jool's orbit, then fine tune the orbit to get another intercept on the next pass. Weird. I'm not quite there yet, but it looks like the whole mission will take 11 years! I'll let you know when those aged Kerbals get back home safe!

Yeah, I really hope I don't need any more 'epicness' or I'll likely pull my hair out! Plain old boring landings will do fine thankyou

Well, it looks like I'll have to use the lander on Bop. The Kerbals have enough EVA RCS to get down to Bop's surface and back with 200 dV left over... but the probes haven't quite got enough RCS to make it back to orbit. They've got 50 units and need about 30 to get to the surface and nearly that again to get back up. I suppose I could try for another Mothership rescue from a ballistic arc, but I really don't want to try that again. I just hope it doesn't use up too much fuel in the lander for this.

Dang! Is that new on a recent version of KSP? I never knew it had that! The few times I've thought about it in the past I have gone into the files and backed up the quicksave file. Then you can copy it back in and hit F9 in game, but that's a rather involved solution. Alt+F9 is much easier! I'll hav eto look into this. The probes aren't 'dropped' right now. They originally were intended to be returned to Kerbin on their own. They have chutes that let them land at about 6m/s. However I am considering shunting all the science into the main crew areas and dumping the actual probes. So far I'm leaving them in, but I could retain just two of them (for balance) say and dump the rest. True, engineering this was interesting, but most of the time was spent getting the main lander working. I really should have spent more planning time on the mothership. Even after refueling it's running low again! True, I don't think my computer could have handled a mothership big enough to have had the fuel to travel this whole mission without refueling, but it would have been nice to know that from the start and send the refueling tankers ahead to arrive with the mothership. Oh well, next time. I do intend to do this again later, perhaps not Jebidiah level though. I'm thinking without the excess weight of the science I could cut the size of the Tylo lander way down, and this time I won't try to do the whole mission with just one lander. It was fun to prove it can be done, but it's a bit inefficient.

Oh, and here's the Vall landing report:

Well, Vall went pretty well. No surprises and still got over 2500 dV left in the ship for the trip to Bop. Still, that doesn't leave too much for Bop arrival, landing, and then return to Kerbin!

Well the probe has RCS it'self, it can go down on it's own then the four crew go down separately. If you're talking just going down together... well there isn't anything on the probe that a Kerbal can hold onto, but I guess I could just park him on top and hope.... naaaah. The top is an atmospheric science nosecone. He'd slide off. I don't think you can transfer RCS from a tank to a Kerbal without the Kerbal entering a cabin can you? Even a chair (which the probe doesn't have anyway) doesn't refill the Kerbal's EVA tanks.