allista
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Everything posted by allista
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Interesting question But since I have no idea what the XCOM VTOL is and how it's built, I'm afraid, I don't know the answer. Perhaps, you could describe the craft a bit, attach a screenshot, or, if it's stock, a .craft file. Then we could try to work something out. I would love to see that
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You're doing nothing wrong, but this simplest thing, I'm afraid, is the one that TCA can't do. The core of this mod is an engine balancing algorithm, but to balance engines you need at least a pair of them around the CoM. What happens in your case is that your lifting engine's thrust is in fact not collinear with the CoM slightly, but that is enough to create considerable torque for so light a craft. TCA detects that and tries to optimize the thrust of available engines to minimize torque; but it has only a single engine, which results in lowering its thrust until the produced torque is tolerable. The solution is simple: add at least one other lifting engine (small one should suffice if put far enough from CoM). And for manual flying I would recommend to set them to Balanced Thrust mode. Edit: but if you're using BT mode, remember to provide the craft with other torque generators -- reaction wheels, RCS or engines in Maneuvering mode.
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TCA is not intended for this use-case; in fact, I doubt any mod is. For a perfect powered landing you need to account for everything in a particular rocket, including lift/drag effects and changes in Isp (if you're landing in atmosphere), latency of changing thrust and attitude, particular landing trajectory, etc. This means tons of simulations and data gathering prior to actual landing. That is what SpaceX does. And that's what you have to do if you want to reproduce the result even in a simulated setting like KSP. TCA's "Land" program is a completely different story: it is a landing algorithm that achieves smooth robust landing of any VTOL-capable ship in any conditions by adapting its behaviour through many feedback loops. Its main feature is an automated search for appropriate landing site. It is not fuel-efficient and is not intended for deorbiting, only for on-planet flights.
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Sorry for misunderstanding. And just to be sure, you did bought the main Throttle Controlled Avionics Subsystem part in Stability node, right? If so, could you publish the log? (see above for the location on your OS)
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On your screenshot look at the grey "Enabled" button in the top left corner of TCA window and at the grey status string to the right saying "Disabled". Push this button to enable TCA; it should become green (as well as TCA button in the toolbar). You need to purchase special TCA parts (they look like little blue boxes). Here's the TechTree graph that shows where they are. Note the red arrows: these indicate additional dependencies between TCA modules. E.g. for Landing Autopilot to work, you need also purchase the Navigation Module and Altitude Control Module.
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Nah, not MM problem: the logs clearly show that KSP is unable to initialize types from TCA dll.
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No, horizontal engine has nothing to do with this. And it's only logical that changing CoM does nothing -- TCA just rebalances the thrust to compensate for the shifted CoM. The reason your craft pitches is the drag force, which differs between the nose and the tail of the craft. So what happens is this: TCA balances your engines so that they always give zero torque (Balanced Thrust mode), the craft starts raising and the air drag starts to flip it (push F12 to see the drag overlay arrows on parts), but unless you're using Main Engine mode, TCA is helpless; even if you'd set the engines to Main, you should also use the Level program or the Hold T-SAS program to tell TCA to hold the attitude.
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Hmm... the only thing that can think of is that you're trying to use the version compiled for KSP-1.1. Pleasy, try to download this file: http://spacedock.info/mod/198/Throttle%20Controlled%20Avionics/download/v3.0.1 and reinstall TCA, deleting the whole ThrottleControlledAvionics folder first. I should have changed the build number in assembly for KSP-1.1 so that I could see this straight from the logs, but alas, we're always so clever in hindsight. If that won't help, I'm out of the ideas
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Ah, so basically it works, just not as you expect it to. Then could you describe more verbosely the situation: the design of a ship you're using (you may post a screenshot, too), what you're trying to do and what exactly happens.
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This is definitely MM's problem, because the absence of these info messages means TCA modules are not being installed by MM. Does MM loading screen appears at all on game start, btw? You know, when it prints "applying patches" or some such. Also, is ModuleManager.dll and ThrottleControledAvionics folder reside directly in GameData folder? And the @kcs123's question: are you using Blizzy's Toolbar or the stock Application Launcher? Logs: on Windows(x64) it's KSP(_x64)_Data/output_log.txt, on Linux it's ~/.config/unity3d/Squad/Kerbal Space Program/Player.log There are two versions of 3.0.1, for KSP-1.0.5 and for 1.1; but if you say the 3.0.0 is not working, there's something wrong with the installation. Check that the latest ModuleManager is properly installed, that ThrottleControlledAvionics folder is directly in GameData, and, if you're playing in Career mode, that you have purchased TCA in R&D.
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It seems like ModuleManager problem, bun not enough data to be sure. What KSP and TCA versions are you using? If it's KSP-1.1, have you installed the compatible beta-version of MM from its forum thread? Do any of the cockpits/probe-cores in Editor in their info panels tell something like "TCA: Unavailable" or "TCA: Software Installed"? And sharing logs is always a good idea
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The engine-balancing part of TCA should handle this situation just fine; what may cause unwanted behaviour is the Vertical Speed/Altitude Control, which is programmed to switch off Main engines that are pointed even a little upward, so that you could do a barrel roll and would not be pinned to the ground with the full thrust of lifting engines. So what I would do is I'd disable the AutoThrottle and VSC/AltControl, took off by manually throttling up, then disabled the Stop program (if it's on) and rotated the engines while throttling to the full power. BTW, what mods are you referring to? I could do a test drive and make a video of possible TCA usage in this case.
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I would guess you're missing ModuleManager which is required by TCA to install its modules into engines and command parts.
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Glad you like it About Main/Balanced engines: the difference between them is that Main engines are used both for thrust and for maneuvering (i.e. to produce torque in response to user input), while Balanced ones are always tuned to produce zero torque. Engines with slow throttle response are harder to use for maneuvering because you need to take their inertia into account and stop pulling pitch controls long before the needed angle is achieved. TCA autopilot works around it using needed total thrust vector direction as a vessel orientation cue. Thus it can predict when to stop pitching/rolling to smoothly rotate for the needed angle. A human pilot usually performs much worse at such predictions. So if you use Main engines with AP (say, Cruise mode, or Waypoint Navigation) the vessel should behave much better, and won't even be needing the maneuver engines if it has at least three not-aligned Main ones. I'll try to use the same technique for user input: to interpret it not as a torque request, but as a final pitch-roll angle request. This means that the absence of user input will be equivalent to the Level program. And this has to be an explicitly togglable mode of operation dedicated for VTOLs... All thanks to you
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TCA v3.0.1 for KSP 1.0.5 (2016.04.04) AND TCA v3.0.1-KSP-1.1-BETA for KSP 1.1 (2016.04.04) ChangeLog: And an illustration of the typical debugging... ...and bug-fixing processes.
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Thanks) Well, I was thinking about this, but still unsure if the benefits will outweigh the confusion and the loss of the well-known name.
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Working on it, but many things are broken and not all are trivial to fix.
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TCA v3.0.0 for KSP 1.0.5 (2016.04.02) Yes, it's finally out! Enjoy Compared to BETA-v40 it has a fix in TimeWarpControl module. And (by request of @Azrael the Sorrowful) Custom Action Groups (numeric keys) now override engine profiles.
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Happy fool's day from Squad:
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Also, could someone read through the TCA Manual which I've just finished and tell me if something is missing or unclear or completely wrong?
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Thanks for the info. But fortunately the issue is already resolved by wonderful @merlinux!
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Could anyone owning the Steam's version of KSP download and share with me the 1.1-prerelease? I've purchased KSP on Squad's site, so I can't obtain it otherwise. And you would definitely want me to have one before the actual release UPD: thanks to @merlinux I now have access to the pre-release. Thank you!
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No, it was not; had no time to work on the plugin recently. The listed fixes were all made before your report and are, generally, minor changes.
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TCA3 BETA v40 2016.03.26 This is a Release build, meaning there's no color debug lines protruding from each vessel and much less spam in logs. This is a bug-fixing release. Older ChangeLog Entries
