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Ok, I've created and tested some rebalance files for ECLSS: First up, assumptions and usage rates: O2 requirements per 24 hours: 550 liters (real world value for an average Human) CO2 production per 24 hours: 495 liters (real world value for an average Human) O2 and CO2 storage attributes (based on real world values) http://sdrv.ms/1a1Sn2p Conversion of CO2 to O2 using the reprocessor: I have used the chemical equation 2CO2 --> 2C0 + O2 This is a real world reaction so it seems a good base. It does mean that the reprocessor is only 50% efficient and you end up with waste Carbon Monoxide. I'll talk about how to change this value below. Adjusting the parts: This mod halves the scale of the ECLSS parts, so that the large tanks and reprocessor are now 1.25m parts and the single tanks are smaller. These new size parts have a storage capacity more in line with real world values. Then I have added O2 and CO2 storage to all manned command pods, each has enough for either 1 day or 3 days supply (assuming fully crewed pods. You can select how many days by using the appropriate file (see below) Using the Mod First up install ECLSS Next download the rebalance files here http://tinyurl.com/kaxdetu Unzip the file! In your KSP folder open GameData, LifeSupport and delete the two .cfg files Then copy in the LifeSupport.cfg from the downloaded zip file Finally select one of the other .cfg files from the downloaded zip file and copy this to the GameData,LifeSupport folder. The 2 files allow you to select how much O2 is present on command pods, either a 1 day supply or a 3 day supply. Note that these modulemanager files will add ECLSS functionality to any manned command pods (stock and mods) based on crew capacity. More information and installation video avalalble at http://www.kingtiger.co.uk/kingtiger/wordpress/2014/01/02/mod-eclss-rebalancer/ Finally, Licence information: This mod is released under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported licence. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ Feel free to share and modify the files, but please give credit to the author of this mod and to the authors of any mods referenced in this one.

By the time Bill had docked the Wilbur II to Kewton Station for the third time, he was well past seething and beginning to positively fume. "Jeb gets all of the glory while I get all of the drudgery," he muttered to himself as he hauled the latest batch of Mun rocks into Kewton Station's lab. It was hard to argue with this. Jeb had, of course, been the first to set foot on Mun, landing in East Farside crater piloting the Wilbur I. Jeb had then performed the tricky hop into the canyon on the east side of the crater. He gathered rock samples and performed science experiments at both locations, all the while breathlessly watched by all of kerbal-kind. After Jeb splashed down in the Kacific Ocean, he was immediately whisked off to the Kresident's office to receive medals, and then on to parades across Kerbin. He appeared on the Johnny Karson show. Jeb was feted, applauded, and huzzahed. With Jeb's smashing success, KSC launched Kewton Station into orbit about Mun, placing Bob in charge of operations there. While this didn't generate quite the hoopla that Jeb's landing had, a visibly nervous Bob was interviewed on the David Ketterman show via satellite uplink. Bob explained Kewton Station's purpose of being the orbital lab in which future Mun rocks and Mun-based experiments would be processed before being returned to Kerbin for futher study. KSC engineers designed the Wilbur II, a craft capable of visiting two separate landings sites on Mun and docking with Kewton Station. They tapped Bill for the pilot of Wilbur II, as Jeb was quite exhausted by groupies. Bill was initially thrilled to be chosen. He would not only land on Mun once, but four times! He would advance Kerbal science to an unprecedented degree, as he would explore a whopping eight regions with Wilbur II. Not only that, but he would perform the tricky dockings with Kewton Station, and would perform extended EVA missions hauling in the samples and results of Wilbur II's experiment bays. He would finally be able to outshine Jeb! Little did he realize the fickle ways of fame. On his first trip he landed at Twin Craters, explored the Midlands adjacent to them, and successfully delivered his bonanza of science to Kewton Station. "Good job, Bill," said Bob, "but we're kind of on a tight schedule here as the East Crater window is coming up. We'll need you to undock and de-orbit as soon as the experiments have been re-fitted." Bill gamely rushed back to the cramped confines of Wilbur II and performed a flawless landing in East Crater. He performed his allotted sampling and experimenting, and then skipped over to the Highlands for another round before again returning to Kewton Station. "Hey, Bill," Bob said on his return, "the Kresident wants to talk to you." "Finally," Bill thought to himself. "I'm getting the recognition I deserve!" Bill activated the satellite uplink with a smile. "Yes, Mr. Kresident?" "Bill, you know Jeb best," the krackly voice of the Kresident said. "What's his favorite kolor? I want to present him with a ceremonial sash to hang his medals from, and want to make sure he'd like it." Bill was of course krushed. "Klear!" he snarled into the uplink, and then disconnected. He stomped back to the now fairly smelly, cramped confines of Wilbur II, made sure the experiments were ready to go, and decelerated toward the Munar surface. This time Bill took on the Northwest Crater, and then performed a pinpoint landing in the Midland Craters. Again, he returned the science bounty back to Kewton Station. Bob met Bill at the lab's airlock. "All we need now is the Farside Crater, Bill. After that we can take all of these results back to Kerbin. I don't have to tell you the scientists back at KSC are really chomping at the bit to get the complete data set back. If you hustle you can just make the de-orbit window." Bill had finally had enough. "If KSC wants those results so badly," he shouted at a rather startled Bob, "they'll have to play by my rules!" He stormed back to the Wilbur II and cast off before the lab personnel had a chance to refurbish the experiments. It's hard to say whether the fire from the Rockomax engines or Bill's rage was hotter as he landed in Farside Crater. Bill stomped (as well as one can stomp in 1/6 G) out onto the Munar surface. In full view of the cameras he cut the Wilbur II's fuel lines. Bill's epic pout had begun. "I'm tired of being cooped up in this tin can! Send me a proper habitat that's well stocked with delicious snacks, or you will never know the secrets of Farside Crater!" The engineers at KSC quickly attached a Hitchhiker to a Stayputnik, imaginatively named it Farside Habitat I, and landed it near the disabled Wilbur II. Bill immediately entered it, removed his suit, took a long-overdue shower, and gorged himself on snacks. His pout, however, still endured. "Um, the really good samples are a few klicks away from the landing site," he radioed back to KSC. "You'll need to send me a rover if you want them." He then took another shower and ate more snacks. The engineers at KSC were up to the challenge. They sent not one, but two rovers to Farside Crater. "This is more like it!" Bill chortled to himself as he zipped about the Munar landscape. He was not done with his epic pout, however. "The findings here are so rich, you should send a full science lab here," was Bill's next transmission back to KSC. This caused some konsternation among the engineering staff, but they were (barely) able to launch a lab staffed with the least stupid recruits and equipped with two full experiment kits, and land it by the rest of the klutter that Farside Crater had accumulated. "OK, Bill," the scientists aboard the lab said, "load up the samples and we'll take it from here." Bill kackled evilly. He knew the scientists didn't have EVA suits aboard their lab. "I will only hand these samples over to Jeb!," Jeb was quickly bundled aboard a kourier ship, and landed at what was now known as Farside Base. He climbed down the ladder, medals gleaming on his klear sash he wore over his EVA suit, and konfronted the recalcitrant Bill. "Bill," Jeb said, "don't you think it's time to come home?" "Why should I?", asked Bill. "Here. Take these rotten samples and go on." "But Bill," replied Jeb, "don't you realize that with all of the discoveries you've made, once we get all of the results back to Kerbin we will be able to go to Duna? Heck, I'll even let you go first this time. Now let's grab Bob and get home." So Bill finally ended his epic pout. Bill and Jeb rendezvoused with Kewton Station, retrieved Bob and the accumulated research stashed there, and returned to the jubilant scientists eagerly awaiting them at KSC. As Jeb predicted, the research Bill had gathered was enough to catapult kerbal technology into the interplanetary arena. So impressed was the Kresident with the results, he forgave Bill his pout and awarded him the Kobel Prize on Bill's very own klear sash. THE END

Ok I've mashed up all of your guy's ideas an written up most of chapter 1 of the quest. I'll finish chapter 1 later today then design the scenes and resource lists. Kerbol Quest Quest 1: trouble on the blue marble Chapter 1: Pre made Save file. Jeb is inside the command center at KSC an npc is at the bottom of the ramp with an explanation point over his head. (Scott Manley was to play this character, Admiral S. Kermin) Interacting with him we get a voice over; Jeb! Glad to see you. It's been a while since we last had an assignment like this, and you are the most qualified to handle it, so let me get right to it. (Main monitor on back wall puts up picture of kerbin with red crosshairs pointing at old KSC) We've been picking up radio transmissions from the old decommissioned space center. Nobody has been there in 3 years and our satellites are showing no trace of movement or heat signatures within 5km, so we need you to take a closer look to see what's going on. We have a jet waiting for you on the runway over here that's equipped with a new encrypted radio system, please report to us with the new radio once you arrive and we will proceed from there! (Jeb walks to runway and boards aircraft. Fly to old KSC, land anywhere inside the valley then exit the aircraft. Interact with the radio system that is on the side of the aircraft) Voice over admiral kerman; Jeb on your decent your onboard camera saw something odd at the top of that mountain to the north. Last time we were here there was no cave up there but now it looks like there's an opening part way up the mountain! That over hang explains why we couldn't see it with our satellites. We are going to need you to get up there and check it out. It looks too small to land a jet at, and too steep to walk or drive up the mountain. Come back and see what the boys in the lab can do for you. I heard they have something that will be just the ticket! (Jeb flies to KSC to the Rocket Lab building, interacts with NPC. ) Voice over; Yes, yes, mhmm. Oh right. Wait, who? Oh Jebidiah! I was told to expect your visit! And I know exactly what you need! Unfortunately our prototype had a few,, erm, bugs.. It didn't really survive its initial test flight. You know how that goes eh Jeb? We've worked out what went wrong and made the proper changes, the thing is we don't have some of the parts we need to built the Mark 2. If you don't mind waiting we can have them all shipped here, but Admiral Kerman said you would be in a hurry.. Lets see.. Since none of us are really capable of flying anything faster than a butterfly, we need you to go collect the parts for us. Once you bring them all back here we can assemble the Mark 2 and add it to your inventory! (Hands Jeb a disk) here are the coordinates for the Kerbinite mine. We'll tell the mining director to expect your arrival! Give me a call on your secure radio once you have retrieved the Kerbinite and I'll give you the next location! (Board jet and fly to the mine north east of KSC. Land on the KT placed runway, walk to the mine and talk to the npc. ) Here you are Jeb, we just finished packaging it for you! (Return to jet and use radio) Rocket scientist: You got the Kerbinite? Great! Ok, you'll need to take that over to the low-grav refinery and just.. Oh, um, we'll there's something I forgot to mention. Jeb the Low Grav Refinery is on the Mun. See, one of the problems with the Mark 1 was that the Kessler Coils were made here, in normal gravity, and that made the thing spin out of control. Our low-grav refinery was built to handle much more precise machining jobs like what we need now. Admiral Kerman just sent word that you've got permission to take a ship up to the refinery. He also mentioned they have a few things for you to do up there before you come home. Guess he wants to kill two birds with one stone! We've programmed the landing coordinates into the ships landing computer and told them you are on your way. See you when you get back! (Board jet, fly to KSC, go to launch pad and board the rocket waiting there. Launch to orbit and transfer to Mun. Land at coordinates that pop up on the screen when you enter Mun SOI. Land at coordinates. The refinery has a 100 meter across landing pad with inlaid lighting, and a structure off to one side. It is built over top of a large crater with large metal beams holding it level with the lip of the crater. Some ramps lead to the mun surface) At the entrance to the structure the NPC talks; Jeb you made it! I was so worried! Here, I'll take that kerbinite, it will take me a little while to build your Kessler coil, but I've got a problem I need you to look into while I'm doing it. This refinery is built over top of a special crater. The meteor that hit the Mun here contained special mineral deposits that we are trying to extract, but our drill rig down below is on the fritz. Would you be able to go take care of it? I'm sure I'll be done with this by the time you get back! (Go down below the landing pad into the crater. There is a glowing meteor nested in the crater with scaffolding all around it and a drill rig beside it, not functioning) Talk to the NPC by the drill. "Jeb? They send you to take a look at this piece of junk? Well, the tools are down there by the ladder, and the control panel is right over here. Good luck! (Look at control panel. Go to tool box and grab hammer and duct tape. Go to drill and use hammer. Go to control panel and use duct tape to hold wires in. Press green button and drill starts to spin and sparks start coming off the drill bit) Talk to NPC: "I should have known that's what you'd do. Well, thanks a lot Jeb! See you in a month when I rotate back home!" (Go back to top level, talk to NPC.) "You fixed the drill? Good man! Here's your Kessler coil! Best of luck to you! (Board rocket, return to KSC, walk to rocket lab and talk to Scientist) Oh great! You got it! While you we're away I had a few of the other parts we were missing delivered, so just let me install this coil and the Mark 2 will be all set! There we go, You should have the Mark 2 in your assembly buildings now. (Jeb returns to the command center) Admiral Kerman says: Jeb I got word that you've recieved the prototype Jet Pack? Good. You'll need to equip it on your next mission. Make sure you stick it on your plane where you can get at it and head back to that cave entrance! (Player makes an aircraft or rocket with jet pack mounted on it somewhere then flys to old KSC and boards jet pack. Player flys from landing site to the cave entrance and lance inside the entrance. Leave jet pack and enter the large steel doors inside cave.) Inside the mountain is hollowed out into one very large room at the end of a tunnel. Lots of computer screens and something that looks like a supercollider coiled around the outer edge of the room. A couple of scientist can be seen at the far side of the room working on their computers. Interact with one of the scientists and dialog comes up. "Wow, how did you manage to get in here? This is the ending to chapter 1, a LOT of time was put into making each of the scenes, between the 6 different modelers. The Kerbinite mine is the biggest scene, as its an entire hollowed out mountain with tunnels and structures inside and a large runway and worksite with buildings and everything outside. The Low Grav Refinery is the next largest, being a large flat kerbal made object on the Mun, with multiple levels. edit: ive also updated the Jetpack mod for 0.23 over here but dont want to needlessly bump it

I created a forum a while back entitled "The Shuttle Discussion forum" or something close to that. I intended for it to be a place where people could go to post their craft, talk about shuttles, and get help. Is this the type of forum the OP intended to create? My post was locked . My shuttles are not stock though, so I won't post (unless you change the title designation).

There's a collider issue with the non-vac SRB nozzle. I need to talk to Tiberion about it, but for now, use clamps to make sure none of the sea-level nozzles start in contact with the ground. Or put a decoupler under them, that works too.

"How is this possible?" Demanded Dandun of the disembodied voices streaming through the intercom. He wouldn't get any answers there. "It's no use Dan. That intercom only goes one way... Ferdan. Why don't you tell us what's going on?" "What makes you think I know anything about-" "-Cut the crap, Ferd. It's written on your face, the way you talk down to us, the way you smirk when we squirm. You knew this wasn't just a test flight. You were the fourth man, weren't you?" "Yes. You don't get any points for that one Chadmore. The information surrounding my induction into the program was declassified years ago. I just prefer to keep it under wraps." "Keep what under wraps? Who is this guy, Chad?" "Go ahead and tell him." "15 years ago - The last Mun mission before the suspension of all operations. Bill, Bob, and Jebediah - our pilots today - were sent out on a mission that ran into some problems. Some say it was sabotage, others say it was simple oversight. One way or another, the ascent stage of the lander failed to ignite its engine. It turns out the fuel lines connecting the tanks to the engine were severed, i.e. intentionally." Dandun looked confused. "How do you know about this? You must've been five when this was happening!" "It wasn't classified. Everybody in the world knew about this at the time, but the information was surpressed over the years that followed. Accounts of what happened became next to impossible to find in any of the textbooks and schools never taught about it in any of their history courses. Eventually it was like the mission never happened." "Okay... But how do you know? We're of an age, you and I. I should know this too." There were some bad memories left untapped. I suppose there wasn't really much use in hiding it, but then again Dan didn't need to know everything, did he? "My father was involved in the design of that spacecraft. He never forgot what happened, and never let it go. His responsibility was the lander, and when something goes wrong with your baby you never forget it... Not ever... No matter what the textbooks say." Ferdan smiled. "Tell them what happened next." "Accounts vary. The most popular version of the story is that Bob, who was in the command module at the time returned from Kerbin with a ship containing a state of the art autopilot system. "Mechanical Jebediah" they called it. From the Command Module, Bob was able to remotely oversee the landing and take over if anything went wrong. Nothing did. The lander touched down, Bill and Jebediah came back home, and were celebrated as heroes one final time. Then, the space program ended and we haven't been beyond LKO in the last ten years, yadda yadda yadda." "Okay, so what does Ferdan have to do with any of this?" "There was a... contingency... In case either Jebediah or Bill failed to return from the mission. Some extra room was carved out in the command module for a fourth passenger. One that nobody knew about... He..." "I was a stand in. In case one of them didn't come back. But they did come back, so Munstak Industries just wrote up an article explaining my role as the "mission contingency planner" to shut up the conspiracy theorists, and released it. Declassifying the whole story. What I want to know is how you figured me out." Ferdan and I locked stares. We each knew what the other was thinking, but how much could I say? In space, nobody could protect me from him. "It was obvious that you've been on missions before. Honestly could've been anyone. Any pilot from any of the missions KSC had ever run... But it takes a certain kind of kerbal to know the unknowable. Nobody could completely mask your utter lack of surprise upon seeing a completed space station - one that Munstak must have been keeping secret for years... I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt after that... You knew about this station. You were added to the crew to oversee this mission, to some greater purpose. But what is that purpose? Why don't you tell us?" Nobody said a word for what felt like hours. You could cut the tension in the room with a knife, and I knew from the amused look in Ferdan's eye that I had just stepped into a web of lies. Where did these threads all lead? Did they end with him? Why were we here, at a station nobody knew about, on a routine mission that appeared to all the world to be a simple flight test of a new spacecraft? I knew I would get no answers from asking questions, so I decided then and there that it would be for the best if I just let events unfold. "This is Jebediah Kerman speaking. We have capture and hard dock. Stand by for seal pressurization, and opening of the hatch!"

Well for one thing, somebody else quoted Steven Hawking's book on it, and I don't think he's one to talk out of his arse. Secondly, I'm sure "black hole" is an English euphemism if you try hard enough, as (for example) I've heard tales of what happens if you Google "black body curve" without SafeSearch on.

Sent a communique to Deutsch Afrika (leader of Sealion League) to try to get him talk to the attacker of Kermany to find out cause belli (reason for war). Also, MDPs are useful, even if they are just OMDPs... EDIT: Here's the link to the spreadsheet to get organized on what we have signed to other alliances... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AotG_PxGhuGIdGpsT1BZUTlJNHZ6ZlQyM2hpU0lpaUE&usp=sharing

So given my frustration with dealing with maneuver nodes, I've been wondering why all the guides for going to Duna or anywhere talk about building your node directly from Kerbin orbit. It seems to me, that it ought to be the same delta-V planning the route directly from Kerbin, as it would doing an escape from Kerbin, then doing the transfer after the escape. My thought process is, no matter what, you have to escape Kerbin. In fact, it doesn't even matter which direction you escape it in. You burn just prograde until you just barely get an escape. If you only burn exactly that far you resulting orbit should be almost identical to Kerbin's orbit around the Sun. From there you plan your transfer, and do another burn using the more convenient solar-level maneuver nodes. My brain tells me this SHOULD be equivalent. There will be some Delta-V negligible losses if I overshoot my Kerbin escape maybe, or escape via Kerbin's retrograde when I need a planetary prograde burn, but the first step of going anywhere is to escape Kerbin, so why not just do that first? One could argue time perhaps. If you work out the phase and such ahead of time, you wouldn't even have to sit around in space waiting for it, but most guides have you sitting in Kerbin orbit anyway. Why does it matter if my Kerbals are sitting in a convenient Solar orbit nearly identical to Kerbin orbit, or sitting in a Kerbin orbit when I start time warping to get the phase? Then again, I figure I must be wrong, and would be awesome to have someone explain why I am, because I'm not hotting the Delta-V targets on this map at all: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/w/images/7/73/KerbinDeltaVMap.png My Kerbin escape is around 1000 Delta-V, which is close to the map, but my Duna intercept is another 1000 Delta-V, and the map says that's 100. This is hard for me to test, as I get way too frustrated trying to intercept a planet directly from Kerbin to actually see if there's a difference. Anyway, thanks ahead of time!

I've only been to Eeloo once, as part of Jeb's Grand Tour back in 0.19: Those pictures are in order of where I landed, although I actually stopped on Mun twice (once at the start of the trip, and then the midpoint stop as shown in that picture) before returning to Kerbin. The ship shown there, the Nimbus, was a 55-ton Kethane-refining vessel using 12 hybrid ion engines (roughly equivalent to an LV-N) as its primary propulsion. The ability to refuel on the ground was the main factor in being able to land on Moho, Tylo, etc., and I had a network of refueling ships in various spots as well. For Eve it had to tack on an additional module containing Kethane-burning turbines (but it brought that module back up to orbit), but for every other body besides Kerbin it was an SSTO. As to the original point of this thread? Honestly, I was disappointed in Eeloo. Very little in the way of terrain, no atmosphere, weak gravity... by the time I got there that sort of landing had become very routine. The only real challenge was in matching its orbit, but even that isn't a big deal once you learn to make designs with large delta-V capacities. (My primary spaceplane has a couple ion engines on it so that it can fly straight to Laythe from Kerbin. Making a design that can get to Eeloo just isn't a challenge any more.) On the Grand Tour, going to Eeloo wasn't bad because I headed there from an easy refueling at Pol; the harder part was going from Eeloo back down the well to Gilly, which is why I stopped back in Kerbin's SOI on the way. But even if you don't have a fuel network set up it isn't hard to get there. It'd be nice if Eeloo gained the cryovolcanoes the developers had talked about, or at least a thin atmosphere, but that may or may not ever happen given that a lot of the talk about moving it to be a moon of a second gas giant revolved around the work of someone who's no longer employed by Squad.

You've overly complicated it dewin. I use a simple 3-layer network. First layer total Kerbin coverage network is easy enough with 3-5 sats parked at 742* km altitude with a 3 or 5 Mm Omni antenna equipped. I prefer 5 Mm because it improves comlinks with Keosats. Second layer coverage is provided with Keosats. 3 are good enough, 4 provides redundancy. A five Mm Omni and a short range dish are all you need. Target the dish at the OCS explained next. Layer three is the orbital command station** (as I call it) placed on a polar orbit half way between Mun and minmus. This station you can cover in all types of dishes for acting as a big relay hub Use a low power, wide angle dish and aim it at kerbin. It should ALWAYS hit all non-occluded (blocked) keosats with ease. Technically, since KEO is at such a low altitude, the 5 Mm antennae means that the keosats can provide coverage to the entire surface and chain communicate. However, wonky orbit drift will cause long blackouts since keo orbit is so slow. The lower layer of sats at 742 km ensure that blackouts are short and ensure multiple redundant communications paths are always open. Even better, the OCS way up there in inter lunar polar orbit all but ensures zero blackouts because it is EXTREMELY difficult to occlude (block) from the commsat relay network. *741 and some change km is the minimum calculated altitude to provide a radio horizon equal to kerbin's radius, giving you total hemisphere coverage. (This is the 'BEST' altitude for general commsats, as this keeps all the sats closer together in general, allowing you to use lower power comms, which translates into smaller power equipment, which means a lighter rocket, which means a smaller, less overly built rocket. Good if you're playing with a budget mod because now it's cheaper.) **OCS requires a six-kerbal crew with a probe core to turn it into a 'mission control' platform. If you want my PERSONAL configuration... Use the following. ALL orbits are precise, but spacing is ignored as it will never stick. Layer 1: 742 km, equatorial. 6-9 satellites. 5 Mm comms. Layer 2: Keostationary. 5 Sats, 5 Mm Omni with a dish. Layer 3: 1/2 the way between Mun and Minmus. Polar Orbit. 1 Station, bristling with everything I can fit and the kitchen sink. (And a blender. Mmmm... Space Smoothies). Network reliability = 100% uptime. I know these guys talk about perfect geometry, but unless you're willing to crunch some (simple, to us) equations and thread beach balls through pin holes, just remember a few hard values and remember that redundancy beats out precision. 742 km. Lowest orbit one sat can see half the entire planet. 2,868 km. Keostationary. Altitude where orbit period is the same length as a kerbin day. Satellite 'stays above' the same spot on the planet. 5,500 m/s^2 This is the absolute maximum amount of delta-V you will need for just about any point in Kerbin orbit. Anything higher is overkill. And even this is overkill for most everything but placing the OCS. On the plus side, you have the burn time to make mistakes and correct them.

I was stunned. "Surely you can't mean... Dan, they must be in their fourties by now." "Yes, they're getting up there. But Munstak's been in desperate need for some PR. Ever since that debacle with the fuel lines on the Mun... We haven't even been past LKO in 15 years! The old satellites have all gotten worn down due to exposure, and most had to be de-orbited or blown up to save costs. For all intents and purposes, this space program is starting from scratch. Even the old designs have been turned into museum pieces and the brains over at R&D are turning out new contraptions every month. Seeing Bill, Bob, and Jeb get back into the pilots' chairs will be just the photo op that Munstak needs to build public support, and when that happens who knows where we'll go next!?" "You're probably right. No sense to dwelling in the past or speculating about the future. I want to know about this mission!" "Right, well... I don't know everything about it. I'm in the same boat as you in that regard. From what I know, it's a new shuttle they're developing with a crew of seven. There's the three pilots, and those'll be-" "-Yes, go on?" "And then the four of us... Well, the two of us, plus Fredred, and the slot that was still available. We don't have a whole lot of responsibility, but if anything happens up there we'll have to act just as fast as the pilots." "'Not a lot of responsibility'? What does that mean? We're essentially... cargo?" How disappointing. "Well, it sounds like the ship is going to be a crew shuttle using those new engines that R&D turned out. 'SABRE' or something like that." "Nah, I think they're called 'RAPIER.' Something about SABRE sounding 'too science-fictiony.' Read about them in the Kersepolis Times. That's interesting though... If Munstak's playing around with RAPIERs, then maybe they're testing a new SSTO?" Ever since exploration of the Mun ended 15 years ago, KSC has been going for reusability over modularity. It made sense that they would want to design a ship that could make orbit and return on a single stage, but the dangers were obvious and many... "If they are, and it does work it'd be the first of its kind. The videos from previous test flights still haunt me." "Nah, man it's okay. The technology's really improved since then. What's the worst that could-umph! Hey, why'd you just elbow me?" "You were just about to say the six words that you never say in test flying. Don't do it again!" The look on his face was priceless. You could almost tell that he knew I was being dead serious. The suits hadn't changed much since the begining of the space program. They could be donned entirely by one individual, and all the seals were closed and opened manually. There wasn't much in the way of safeguards in place to keep an astronaut from, say unlocking the seal on his helmet in vacuum (though nobody has yet to try). Still, if left alone the seals would hold for years without any maintenance, making them incredibly useful for long term missions like the ones Munstak planned for Duna after the Mun missions ended. The life support was extensive too, and portable carbon scrubbers would keep the wearer alive and supplied with oxygen for over a day if separated from the main craft, meaning a rescue mission could be mounted to save you if for some reason you found yourself separated. The EMUs were invaluable too, but I hadn't had much opportunity to train on those outside of the sim. Within the hour I was donned and ready to go. We'd attend the mission briefing in full gear (minus helmets of course), and before we could even say goodbye to the dirt we were standing on we'd be heading up into the sky on a pillar of light and smoke. I found the auditorium where us, the pilots, the mission planners, and the craft engineers would be crammed into for thirty minutes or so as every facet of the mission was covered in arduous detail. As luck would have it, I was one of the first to arrive, meaning I could spend the next few minutes getting to know the other crew and, hopefully, getting to meet the pilots. There was no such luck on that front, but I did get to say hello to Ferdred - a bitter son of a gun, that one. The lull between finishing training and getting picked for the mission was not fun for him, and he was the type of alpha-male personalities who would take it out on everyone else. If I ever ended up going to the Mun I would not want to be sitting in a capsule with him. Then Dandun greeted me again, and continued to gush about how excited he was. I couldn't blame him either. We spent a couple of minutes discussing our pilots, and their fantastic mission records. I was checking my boot seals when I saw the third crew member walk up and stick out his hand. "Nice to see ya again, kid." "Kid? Wha-" As I stood up I could see who I was talking to. "-Ferdan!? Since when have you been a trainee?" "I was one of the first astronauts they brought on after reopening mission control. You'd never have met me until this mission if it weren't for last night. Impressive the way you packed away that champagne by the way." "But... I, uh... Why didn't you say anything?" "Who wants to talk shop on a holiday, kid?" "Kid? Why do you keep calling me that?" "One day, I'll tell you. New recruits: You're all kids to me. Right now though, we have a mission briefing to attend. See you on the pad." There wasn't much of a briefing at that. This was a PR mission designed to prove the viability of a Single Stage To Orbit (SSTO) rocket using the new RAPIERs developed by R&D. A crew of 7 would be loaded in with a month's worth of supplies for a space station holding a crew of 8, in order to simulate the weight that the spacecraft would be required to handle during an actual resupply mission to a space station that, as yet, existed only as separarate payloads floating aimlessly through orbit. Once this mission was deemed a success, however, they would be brought together to form a new command, control, and refueling depot called 'Halcyon Point,' which was a very cheesy name in my opinion. I'll just stick with the official name, Fuel Depot Ke-01. The ship was the Crew to Orbit Transfer Shuttle Mk. IV-d4, or COTS for short. COTS itself was a dainty looking thing, with four engine pods arranged in a plus-shaped configuration. Each pod was adorned with two high speed air intakes and a single RAPIER engine, which looked rather unimpressive shrouded as it was. There were four landing legs that looked to be made from match sticks, and I had no idea how it would hold up on an actual landing. There were no reporters for us. No fanfare, nor any awaiting crowd cheering hopefully for our success. The only documentation of this mission was being collected by approved media personnel. In the event of critical mission failure, Munstak would want the footage tightly controlled. While I was thoroughly flattered by the consideration, I couldn't help but agree with the strategy. The pilots had already boarded by the time we got there, but the ladder was down so we climbed up and into the crew cabin just below the command module. Once on board I heard Ferdan say aloud "so far, I'm not impressed." I would have disagreed with him on principle, except I didn't actually disagree. Still, I kept silent. As he was buckling into his seat, Dandun noted that the view outside the window was actually pretty nice. "At least they afforded us that consideration!" Ferdred piped in next. "Say what you want, but I'm not here for the view. Do you know that we'll be the first kerbals in orbit for over 10 years? Yet nobody is around to watch us go... Doesn't that strike you as odd?" "If we go up in a fiery ball of death," I said "it seems as though Munstak would rather this mission never happened." Nobody spoke after that. Their faces all acknowledged the truth that there was no such thing as a routine mission to space. After a moment or two of uncomfortable silence, the intercom crackled to life: "Good morning! Good morning! Good morning! This is your pilot, Jebediah Kerman speaking. Copilots Bill and Bob are with me here in the cockpit. I'm sorry that we never had the chance to get introduced, but there will be plenty of time for celebration once this mission is over. I know you've all been briefed, so let's begin..."

Someone from the Sealion League has declared war on me. Their leader says he will talk to him but until he agrees to peace I may be in need of aid.

Logging in Orbit Acknowledging Voice Print - SC1 Crew Member Nelrim Kerman /// Begin Voice Recording NELRIM: Is this thing on? Julius Com: Recording active NELRIM: ... Right, lets get this ball rolling- err... Log 5, Day... er Julius Com: Day 18, Nelrim NELRIM: 18, right... SC-1 - Nelrim Kerman. This is my second log- as far as this mission is going, this is fantastic Julius Com: Should I upload Images, sir? NELRIM: Negative Julius Com, not now Julius Com: Aye sir NELRIM: Anyway... We've been playing some of our favorite albums from home- got my Boards of Canada on the deck mic and in my section of the station; far beyond this joy though, is the dark side of the Mun and indeed, the dark side of space. Opposite to its description, the dark side of space is full of stars; we dim lights in the cabin for us to see the true beauty of the cosmos- out here, away from all the light sources; its any inner child and astronomer's dream alike. Raydon brought up some of the classic music his Pa told him to listen to- he was lost in it for a while. We got news less than 15 minutes ago- they've done it; they're on the surface. I slightly envy them, but think back to what its like up here, with all the kerbals around me. Anyhow, Flight says they might get to talk to us direct- a real treat. So that's what I am excited for tomorrow, otherwise its back to the work which I sound to shove aside as an inferior work place- its the most inviting place to work in, ever. Period. And I love it. Log End Julius Com: Recording End ///

Oops. All this talk lately about how horrible KSP is and how it's becoming just like Minecraft has caused some of my neurons to get crossed up. Sandbox mode

Taking a sampling for the posts I think we are in general wondering at the same thing. Why planes take so long to get to is a little frustrating. I think dual branching model might work. Tech 0 unchanged but the two paths for tech 1-3. One with atmospheric the other ballistic Barometer and therm science in one, accelorometer and gravioli detector in the other. Then merge them back together as SSTO level engines and interplanetary engines get folded in. AS far as actual science mechanics I kinda like the science lab (Tho autopopulating it before launch would be nice... don't judge me) but I would like to see a little cross talk on parts. Like Goo Data, and EVA readings going in together and producing different science. Or accerlerator and gravioli data working together to make small leaps. Also as imagined in several posts, the idea that space station and off world ground bases should be ale to do science over time. Make it even more interesting with the idea the a certain group of Kerbals can only get so far then have to be replaced with others to move the research forward. Give us a reason to send replacement Kerbals to Duna bases and get the old ones home. With Reputation and Money folded in getting these kerbonauts back could be rewarded by all three...15 points of science, 25k in kerboDollars, and some rep for the agency or the kerbonaut himself. Giving reasons to try new mission profiles to old destinations, should be the goal for each improvement, but it should also be a goal to make each mission separately fun. Little things like a reason for return missions, Space station maintenance flights, rover delivery missions, all add to things. Even you plane pilots need to have reasons to fly about other than buzzing the tower...(I keep crashing into that damnable thing). I think the science in .23 is a good second step and points to massive improvements. Alacrity

Well, let's just say that the mod will be re-done completely. 0.23 and subsequent plugin updates changed the picture completely. I never anticipated that, a lot of things need to be completely reformatted, redone and/or changed. Because of that, I completely changed my priorities. I decided to focus on the FASA pack I'm co-developing with NathanKell. After that, I will probably do Yogui's ESA pack, because the rockets included are rather simple and well documented. In the background, I will be fixing Soviet realism pack, but since BobCat will probably release the revised Soyuz soon, I'm not sure how I will adjust to his new release scheme. He will be able to return to work in January, at which point I'll contact him and talk about updates. MrTheBull's addons generally depend on BobCat's, so I don't know what I will need to do with them, either. Although, the Angara and PPTS might be released earlier, but PPTS is giving me problems, so I'm not promising anything. Sorry I couldn't deliver on earlier promises, but 0.23 was a really game-changing update, also because huge changes to plugins that happened after it. On the other hand, this update may feature a lot more ships than originally planned. I'll definitely be able to include all MrTheBull's ships, including the Vostok. Also, it will be possible to configure the Soyuz stages as all rockets from the R7 family except those that use different engines. Unless BobCat models an RD-0124 equipped upper stage, that is. Similarly, the Vostok upper stage would also work as Luna, and Proton will have Proton-M and Proton-K variants (externally, they hardly differ). Blok D will also be featured in a number of configurations. This is all thanks to new Real Fuels features. That said, I'm not promising anything at this point. It depends on how much free time I will have and how the move to 0.23 goes.

CleverLikeMe : No idea. It looks like your install is ok. Post a log so I can see if there is a relevant error message. J_Davis / NathanKell : I'll think about it but it won't be high on my list for now. I Had to do a quick search to understand why you would need that. I learn things everyday here ullage is done with RCS on real rockets ? Or do they use some special engine ? I remember some talk about ullage engine on a thread about the Ares. The problem with enabling/disabling engine is that I would need a way to know which engine I can touch and which I should left offline. And the lack of common engine interface will again lead me to some code duplication nightmare... I think we can manage both realistic and normal mode in the same code base. I just need to avoid quick dirty fix.

What of your opinion on Kethane / KAS? And speaking of Kethane, I remember months ago the talk about as-yet-unseen career mode being based on resource gathering instead of science gathering. Harvesting radioisotopes from Eve's oceans, jet fuel from Jool's upper stratosphere, etc. The lastest devblogs explicitly renounce this idea. i don't question their right to renounce anything, I'm just disappointed that maybe we couldn't "eventually" get both. Perhaps a planned expansion down the road? KSP 2.0?

Zeni, in fact I myself am starting the new career, to do it my way : ) I only figured this whole way out a couple of days ago, while I was already half-way to Jool with 5 ships docked together and one tug pushing them (talk about tech advances). My tech tree is almost done, so I am through with the "campaign", as they used to call it in the days of the Hubble : ) So I am starting over, with exactly this strategy. Hope we'll share experiences (we might open a thread for that, send me a PM with a thread if you start one). This time my challenge (apart from actually making the flights), will be to figure out whether it is easier to work with Minmus rather than Mun. I'll try to take shots and all that. In the meantime, here's a shot of my ongoing Jool mission (this run did't go very well, I realized I had to switch off most of the gyros, except for ones in the middle of the structure, in order to keep the thing from flexing itself apart):

Good luck Soda, I bet all that equipment weighs a lot : ) I am doing something similar in the coming days, I'll be watching your progress with great interest. Maybe you should start a thread somewhere.. (where do we keep our current reports at?). I'll probably make a parallel one. See each others designs, brag a bit, find some solutions to impossible situations : ? In other words, talk to ya soon : )

Those post talk about how to add MP. The post I linked to has information on what Squad's thought was back then; not going to happen in the near future. That's totally different from some people's recollection of it being "Too hard" and "Never gonna happen". I stand corrected. Still the free DLC dillema was about resources and it being a free DLC for people buying before a certain date.

I don't talk about it much, but I'll say something if someone brings up a conversation.

You guys always talk about how MechJeb is weird and such, but for me it always worked. I even put a tiny marker on the Mun to serve as some kind of landing pad. I copied its coordinates and inserted the in the autoland. It landed ON TOP of it. I tried twice with 2 different landers and it worked fine. After I landed I used the translatron to hover and move myself to where I wanted to. But the only thing strange that happened to me was when I try to execute a maneuver node that has some tweaks in the pink markers (you know, the ones that change the inclination of the orbit) is spins a little bit and then points correctly. But again that is very minor. P.S.: Maybe your spacecraft a too complex? Try making something more symmetric and linear

The OP posited an intelligent suggestion and wisely couched it in the form of a discussion so I'll chime in because I do so love the Suggestions threads... I don't remember if HarvesteR made any posts on the forums about it, but he stated in podcasts earlier this year that the aerodynamic portion of the game is something that they'll get to down the road as they wanted to focus on content, gameplay and optimization first... of course he also mentioned more recently that nobody there has a physics background which is why the current aerodynamics model is basically kludged together until they educate themselves further or hire someone with the kind of background they would need to make their physics complete. Now, there was an old thread on this subject where ferram4 debated various methods of implementing "acceptable" aerodynamic models. Just use the forum's search function and it should pop up if it hasn't been buried in the archives. I also recommend visiting his thread here and engaging in a good long chat with him as he is the author of the much loved Ferram Aerospace Research mod. It is likely that when Squad is ready they will at least consult with him when they decide to upgrade the aerodynamics, if not hire him to code it for them outright. He's a very smart, cool (albeit opinionated heheheh) dude and in my experience quite approachable. A good person to talk to about the likelihood of any of the OP's suggestions being implemented. As for game engines, Squad is not going to switch game engines. Period. Will never happen. There's too many man-hours invested in the game and the community would literally tear Squad apart for the massive delay it would incur (asset recreation, all the code would need to be redone for the new engine, the interface would have to be rebuilt, plus delays, delays, delays!). Don't believe me? Ask a veteran of Frostiken's old thread back in April or May (sorry newcomers, it's buried in the "mods only" portion of the archives) about how delays coupled with some basic PR mismanagement (and admittedly also fueled by the expansion comment fiasco of a few days earlier) nearly caused the community to fracture irreparably and would have had far reaching consequences for Squad's reputation as a marketing company if they hadn't gotten their act together within days of that thread starting. I honestly couldn't see KSP surviving such a delay even if they switched to an optimized 64bit engine, implemented N-Body and gave us BE Theory, because nobody would be willing to wait that long to get virtually the same gameplay experience as before, even if it was a little better and a little shinier and we had actual Lagrange Points. Now, KSP 2.0 on the other hand... I could see them doing that for the next version 5 or 6 years from now.