Flashing laser on plane or helicopter

[Pawelk198604]

I recently watched american program about police car chase, BTW i noticed that Americans police love car chases

I watched as a car thief stole the car, and then started a police chase him and then showed a police helicopter, a thief tried to temporarily blind a pilot using a laser pointer, but he was eventually caught, then came out for trying to glare the pilot laser threatens him more than a prison term for trying to steal a car, because it is , federal crime.

I wonder it's true?

[smjjames]

Well yeah it's a serious thing, what if terrorists use lasers to blind the pilots of a passenger plane to bring down the plane?

[Dkmdlb]

"Terrorists!" is the battle cry of the ignorant. Yeah, sure, it is theoretically possible for that to happen, but come on.

[Skyler4856]

"Terrorists!" is the battle cry of the ignorant. Yeah, sure, it is theoretically possible for that to happen, but come on.

It is a real threat.

My grandfather was a pilot at one point in his life, and I recall him describing the shock he felt when a 13 year old blinded him with a laser. he stated that if it had happened during a landing procedure, then he probably would have crashed.

[Tex_NL]

Didn't we have this same discussion a few months ago?

Yes we did: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/97216-Laser-pointer-and-airliner And that too was started by Pawel.

[ZedNova]

What American program is this?

[smjjames]

"Terrorists!" is the battle cry of the ignorant. Yeah, sure, it is theoretically possible for that to happen, but come on.

True, but I was making a point, and like Skyler said, it's a real threat, so even if the theif wasn't trying to crash the helicopter, he still very well could have caused it to crash, so the authorities still take it seriously because it's a serious issue.

[PakledHostage]

My grandfather was a pilot at one point in his life, and I recall him describing the shock he felt when a 13 year old blinded him with a laser.

I'm confused? How could your grandfather see that the culprit was a 13 year old from way up high in his airplane?

[Tex_NL]

I'm confused? How could your grandfather see that the culprit was a 13 year old from way up high in his airplane?

Perhaps he was flashing his personal details in Morse code.

[Pawelk198604]

Didn't we have this same discussion a few months ago?

Yes we did: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/97216-Laser-pointer-and-airliner And that too was started by Pawel.

Gentleman please i posted this on October

I remember that was uproar in our Polish national tv news, old folks lamented how today polish kids are irresponsible and undisciplined, that under commie rule such thing was unthinkable, some journalist joked that at that time there was not handheld laser a said that kids in other countries also do things like that, and you have to explain to the kids what dangers they can cause.

[shynung]

Gentleman please i posted this on October

I remember that was uproar in our Polish national tv news, old folks lamented how today polish kids are irresponsible and undisciplined, that under commie rule such thing was unthinkable, some journalist joked that at that time there was not handheld laser a said that kids in other countries also do things like that, and you have to explain to the kids what dangers they can cause.

Old topic is old.

Frankly, I see no reason why we should restart the discussion under a new thread.

[magnemoe]

Gentleman please i posted this on October

I remember that was uproar in our Polish national tv news, old folks lamented how today polish kids are irresponsible and undisciplined, that under commie rule such thing was unthinkable, some journalist joked that at that time there was not handheld laser a said that kids in other countries also do things like that, and you have to explain to the kids what dangers they can cause.

As other says its an danger, laser light is so focused it will blind kilometers away. This is pretty easy to test.

Planes are only vulnerable then flying low, this is takeoff and landing, add helicopters searching and small planes. in none of this settings you want to be blinded.

You will also only hit over time if you aim. The response is that the police react like you shoot an gun at the plane, might be unfair but an handgun can not hit an plane 500 meter up, you are more likely to hit randoms on the ground.

As for the 13 year old kid he did not really know the danger. Kids tend to do lots of stupid things like making an bonfire below an barn where nobody can see us.

No kids did not do it during communist Poland as handheld lasers was rare They did other stupid stuff, looking back I'm surprised everybody survived.

[Skyler4856]

I'm confused? How could your grandfather see that the culprit was a 13 year old from way up high in his airplane?

The authorities eventually caught the criminal; his age was around 13

[B787_300]

To put it in a nutshell it is against the law in most places and if you get caught it will put you in jail for a long time. You should never try to distract a pilot while flying and even more so when a plane is flying low as that means that they are looking for something, or are landing or taking off, some of the most dangerous phases of flight.

[goldenpeach]

To put it in a nutshell it is against the law in most places and if you get caught it will put you in jail for a long time. You should never try to distract a pilot while flying and even more so when a plane is flying low as that means that they are looking for something, or are landing or taking off, some of the most dangerous phases of flight.

no need to say "some of the most dangerous phase", the landing and the take-of are the most dangerous phases, once you're high in the air there's no need to panic

(well, unless there is a plane collision that cause one the plane to literally cut trough the other plane with it's vertical stabilizer, separating completly the cockpit from the rest of the aircraft; leaving no chance of survival... I don't want to frighten you, I'm just saying that there is a non-zero chance that you fall to your death, being aware of it for several minutes without being able to do anything to save yourself.)

[Kerbart]

"Terrorists!" is the battle cry of the ignorant. Yeah, sure, it is theoretically possible for that to happen, but come on.

So you think it's not a big deal if the pilots of your plane can't see anymore? How about hearing an announcement during a flight? “Ladies and gentlemen, this is your flight crew. I lost a bar bet yesterday so the copilot and I are going to finish the rest of the flight blindfolded. The landing may be a bit rougher than usual†will get a Steve Jobesque no biggie from you?

I think that trying to blind the crew of an airplane (even a helicopter) is effectively an attempt to kill them. And yes, attempted murder should be punished harder than "regular" car theft.

[Bill Phil]

Wouldn't this be very illegal? Like, more serious than car theft?

[vger]

Wouldn't this be very illegal? Like, more serious than car theft?

I would think blasting a pilot in the eyes with a laser counts as assault, and perhaps attempted murder?

[cpast]

I would think blasting a pilot in the eyes with a laser counts as assault, and perhaps attempted murder?

Highly depends. You can't make attempted murder stick for it in any but the most extreme cases, because you need to show intent to kill (and most people don't know that pointing a laser at an aircraft *can* kill, let alone do it with the intent to kill). The actual crime in the US is the aptly-named "Aiming a laser pointer at an aircraft," which is a felony (max 5 years). Anything more requires showing intent to hurt someone or interfere with a flight, which normally isn't there -- most people who do this are just having fun, and don't know it causes any problem at all (it's hard to convict someone of assault or attempted murder if they don't think their laser beam will even reach the plane, let alone cause any harm). At the federal level, it has the same max sentence as grand theft (5 years), but I'm not sure how actual sentences stack up between the two.

If someone's *intentionally* interfering with a flight, it becomes much more serious, and has a much longer max term -- intentional interference with flight crew has a 20 year max.

[Camacha]

I would think blasting a pilot in the eyes with a laser counts as assault, and perhaps attempted murder?

Of course not. It is increasing the risk of an accident, so ill advised and a stupid thing to do*, but the chances of something actually happening are slim. The fact that numerous laser incidents happen on a daily basis without a single known fatality confirms this.

*And could land you in jail for a while.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Camacha

[lajoswinkler]

I would think blasting a pilot in the eyes with a laser counts as assault, and perhaps attempted murder?

Attempted murder hardly. First, one would have to prove it was an attempted murder and not involuntary manslaughter, and with the lack of substantial evidence you can't prove it. A stupid kid with a laser is hardly a candidate for attempted murder. It's just ridiculous and good luck proving it even if it was true.

Second, yes, it would be an assault potentially resulting in a massive tragedy.

[cpast]

Attempted murder hardly. First, one would have to prove it was an attempted murder and not involuntary manslaughter, and with the lack of substantial evidence you can't prove it. A stupid kid with a laser is hardly a candidate for attempted murder. It's just ridiculous and good luck proving it even if it was true.

Second, yes, it would be an assault potentially resulting in a massive tragedy.

Even assault doesn't really fit. In most cases of lasering aircraft, the person lasering the plane doesn't know it's an issue. That's exactly why the US added the specific section for "pointing a laser at a plane" -- it turns out it was hard to get other charges to stick in US court in many cases, because you had to first show that they knew that the beam could even *reach* the plane with enough power to affect anything, and then that you knew (or should have known) that it could cause harm to the aircraft. Thus, Congress passed a law to make it illegal to aim at a plane or at a flight path, without requiring that you know that your laser pointer can affect the aircraft at all (because it's a lot easier to show you intentionally aimed it at a plane or a flight path than it is to show that you tried to *hit* a plane). This is possibly US-specific, though; other countries may differ on how easy or hard it is to prove this sort of thing.

[vger]

Attempted murder hardly. First, one would have to prove it was an attempted murder and not involuntary manslaughter, and with the lack of substantial evidence you can't prove it. A stupid kid with a laser is hardly a candidate for attempted murder. It's just ridiculous and good luck proving it even if it was true.

A car thief firing beams at a helicopter in attempt to evade capture... is not "a stupid kid with a laser."

[Camacha]

A car thief firing beams at a helicopter in attempt to evade capture... is not "a stupid kid with a laser."

It is quite close though

[cpast]

It is quite close though

Not really. A car thief firing beams at a helicopter to avoid capture is more like someone tossing caltrops on the road behind them -- it causes risk (and unlike airliners, a helicopter chasing a car has a *much* more increased risk to dazzle, because helicopters are less stable and they're flying lower), it's not like shooting a gun at pursuers (classing it as attempted murder would be rather excessive), and it's for the purpose of escaping the cops (doing things to stop the cops from chasing you is illegal). A stupid kid isn't trying to interfere with a pilot by shining a laser at them; if you're *trying* to interfere with a pilot, that's a much more serious crime (and rightly so), because you can't claim "I didn't think it would cause any harm." It is not safe to shine a laser at a police helicopter pilot flying at low altitudes. It is not innocuous. It should be punished reasonably severely.